Interview with Flannery O’Connor
A reader asks: “I’m trying to get started as a novelist. Could you recommend something about fiction writing by a Christian writer?” Easy answer: Read Flannery O’Connor’s Mystery and Manners, available in paperback (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 1969), an exceptionally clear book that reads almost as if the author were answering questions.
O’Connor wrote two novels—Wise Blood (1952) and The Violent Bear It Away (1960)—and 31 published stories before dying in 1964 at age 39 of complications from lupus, a chronic autoimmune disease. Had she lived she would now be 82 and WORLD would want to interview her. So let’s do it anyway, using Mystery and Manners.
O’Connor wrote two novels—Wise Blood (1952) and The Violent Bear It Away (1960)—and 31 published stories before dying in 1964 at age 39 of complications from lupus, a chronic autoimmune disease. Had she lived she would now be 82 and WORLD would want to interview her. So let’s do it anyway, using Mystery and Manners.
All the words of the answers are O’Connor’s own, with the exception of a few connecting and explanatory words in brackets. Readers will see that she was acerbic toward what passed as “religious fiction,” but Christian novel-writing has changed over the decades, so her critique from over 40 years ago should not necessarily be applied to current efforts.
WORLD: What’s the difference between a Christian novelist and a naturalistic (or materialistic) one?
O’CONNOR: The novelist is required to create the illusion of a whole world with believable people in it, and the chief difference between the novelist who is an orthodox Christian and the novelist who is merely a naturalist is that the Christian novelist lives in a larger universe. He believes that the natural world contains the supernatural. And this doesn’t mean that his obligation to portray the natural is less; it means it is greater.
WORLD: Do you think some Christian writers are willing to do a slapdash portrayal of the natural because they want to emphasize the crucial evangelistic message?
O’CONNOR: Fiction operates through the senses. . . . No reader who doesn’t actually experience, who isn’t made to feel, the story is going to believe anything the fiction writer merely tells him.
WORLD: Why do you call lots of religious novels “sorry”?
O’CONNOR: The sorry religious novel comes about when the writer supposes that because of his belief, he is somehow dispensed from the obligation to penetrate concrete reality. He will think that the eyes of the Church or of the Bible or of his particular theology have already done the seeing for him, and that his business is to rearrange this essential vision into satisfying patterns . . . by beginning with Christian principles and finding the life that will illustrate them. . . . The result is another addition to that large body of pious trash for which we have so long been famous.
WORLD: Some Christians object to showing evil and violence on the grounds that the good must be emphasized because the good is the ultimate reality?
O’CONNOR: The ultimate reality has been weakened in human beings as a result of the Fall, and it is this weakened life that we see.
WORLD: Some of our readers who don’t like writing about adultery or murder quote the admonition in Philippians 4 to think about what is good. Should novelists avert their eyes from what is bad?
O’CONNOR: The novelist is required to open his eyes on the world around him and look. If what he sees is not highly edifying, he is still required to look. . . . What he sees at all times is fallen man perverted by false philosophies. Is he to reproduce this? Or is he to change what he sees and make it, instead of what it is, what in the light of faith he thinks it ought to be . . . to ‘tidy up reality’?
WORLD: I think I know how you answer those questions . . .
O’CONNOR: [The Christian fiction writer] is entirely free to observe. He feels no call to take on the duties of God or to create a new universe. He feels perfectly free to look at the one we already have and to show exactly what he sees. He feels no need to apologize for the ways of God to man or to avoid looking at the ways of man to God. For him, to ‘tidy up reality’ is certainly to succumb to the sin of pride.
WORLD: Is tidied-up writing also weak writing?
O’CONNOR: The fiction writer has to make a whole world believable by making every part and aspect of it believable. [He has to be concerned] with the evil, and not only with the evil, but also with that aspect which appears neither good nor evil, which is not yet Christianized.
WORLD: But there are dangers in this.
O’CONNOR: It is very possible that what is vision and truth to the writer is temptation and sin to the reader. There is every danger that in writing what he sees, the novelist will be corrupting some ‘little one,’ and better a millstone were tied around his neck. . . . This is no superficial problem, [but] to force this kind of total responsibility on the novelist is to burden him with the business that belongs only to God.
WORLD: So what do good writers do when they see the need to describe but want to minimize the anger of corruption?
O’CONNOR: [The good writer should] take great pains to control every excess, everything that does not contribute to the central meaning and design. He cannot indulge in sentimentality, in propagandizing, or in pornography and create a work of art, for all these things are excesses.
WORLD: Should readers have obligations as well?
O’CONNOR: [Some readers] open a novel and, discovering the presence of an arm or a leg, piously close the book. We are always demanding that the writer be less explicit in regard to natural matters or the concrete particulars of sin. [Such readers] are over-conscious of what they consider to be obscenity in modern fiction for the very simple reason that in reading a book, they have nothing else to look for. They are totally unconscious of the design, the tone, the intention, the meaning, or even the truth of what they have in hand. They don’t see the book in a perspective that would reduce every part of it to its proper place in the whole.
WORLD: Where do beginning writers often go wrong?
O’CONNOR: [They] are apt to be reformers and to want to write because they are possessed not by a story but by the bare bones of some abstract notion. They are conscious of problems, not of people, of questions and issues, not of the texture of existence, of case histories and of everything that has a sociological smack, instead of with all those concrete details of life that make actual the mystery of our position on earth.
WORLD: You emphasize that “in most good stories it is the character’s personality that creates the action of the story.” Where do beginning writers often fall short?
O’CONNOR: [Some] don’t go very far inside a character, don’t reveal very much of the character. I don’t mean that they don’t enter the character’s mind, but they simply don’t show that he has a personality. . . . In most of these stories, I feel that the writer has thought of some action and then scrounged up a character to perform it.
WORLD: Are you overly hard on some Christian writers? Can’t even poorly written religious novels with pious characters be edifying?
O’CONNOR: Poorly written novels —no matter how pious and edifying the behavior of the characters —are not good in themselves and are therefore not really edifying.
WORLD: But can’t God use them for good?
O’CONNOR: We have plenty of examples in this world of poor things being used for good purposes. God can make any indifferent thing, as well as evil itself, an instrument for good; but I submit that to do this is the business of God and not of any human being.
(This interview first appeared in the <a href=http://www.worldmag.com/articles/13099 >June 30, 2007</a> issue of World Magazine.
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back to top10 Comments to “Interview with Flannery O’Connor”
No disclaimer? I thought World and WMB were opposed to racists and racism? Flannery O’Connor was a virulent racist who didn’t even try to hide her feelings about the people she called “niggers”.
And it’s not as if she lived 150 years ago, when such views were common.
Why didn’t you quiz her on her deep seated and widely expressed racism, and what part racism plays in the formation of a Christian novel?
Why does World recommend the works of a modern author who referred to black people as “niggers”?
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Night Train,
Even 40 years ago (when O’Connor’s words quoted in this article were apparently written), racist views were still pretty common, from what I can remember. (I don’t remember the racist views themselves, but discussions in the 70’s which indicated that those attitudes had been common in the fairly recent past and probably were not all gone yet.) And WORLD isn’t quizzing her on anything, just presenting her views as though in response to their questions, as I read the article.
As an aspiring writer myself, I wonder if I am observant enough of “those concrete details of life.” I’m sure I’m one of those writers who wants to present an idea, but not sure I can bring a realistic character to life. Which is probably why I’m still in the thinking stage, not putting a whole lot of words on paper yet – because it’s so much harder to be ruthless and throw out those words once you’ve written them down and they sound so good to your own ear.
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Dear Night Train:
I wonder if you would be so kind as to provide some illustrative quotations from O’Connor’s essays/letters in support of your claim of O’Connor’s “racism”? Or am I to take it that you base this allegation on the sole fact of her use of a word (which I do not dispute)?
I eagerly await your many, many quotations!
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Nighttrain, if O’Connor, who lived in the South and heard language like this daily, had not used such a word as part of the woof and weave of life there, she certainly could be accused of the very “tidied up writing” she complained of in others. You must understand: she was much harder on white folk than on black folk in her stories. But for tht culture at that time, to use any other word would have been a gross falsehood. It was part of authentic story-telling for the time and place.
I mean, did you not read the interview???
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They say ignorance is bliss, Tickle. I don’t know about that, but it must be very comfortable indeed if you find it too hard to Google “flannery “o’connor racism”.
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I can understand you asking for proof if I were asserting that George Washington was really a female Muslim, or something along those lines. But Flannery O’Connor’s racism is hardly under dispute. It’s a well known and well documented and widely discussed fact. Asking me for evidence that she was a racist is like asking me for evidence that the sun is hot.
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Umm, Night Train. I did your suggested Google search and found a lot of sites that talk about the debate of whether or not she was racist. You said, “Flannery O’Connor’s racism is hardly under dispute,” but on the contrary it seems that her possible racism is hardly ever not under dispute. It is quite certain that a large number of characters in her stories are racists (also containing murderers, thieves, rapists, etc.). Also, the use of the N word does not in fact make someone a racist. I remember reading Huckleberry Fin in High school and slowly realizing that despite the N word, Twain actually seemed to be fighting against racism (either that or he was blind to some of the irony in his book). Should we put a warning about the moral failings of all authors before talking about something good they say? Should I never mention Dostoevsky again without mentioning that he seems to be an anti-Semite and that I disapprove?
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Night Train, your Google search led me to a review of Ralph C. Wood’s study, Flannery O’Connor and the Christ-Haunted South. Here’s an excerpt:
In explaining O’Connor’s complex views on race, Wood puts forth the evidence from all sides, and concludes that she was “not a racist, either politically or theologically.” It is telling, he notes, that “not a single black character is treated as an object of mockery or contempt anywhere in O’Connor’s fiction.” In her stories, only four blacks come under censure, while “virtually all of her white characters receive severe condemnation for their sins.” The black writer Alice Walker once remarked that O’Connor’s work was about grace, not race. Wood agrees and adds that O’Connor offered the only “lasting antidote to racism” — the “race-transcending, race-reconciling gospel.” She had the Christian conviction that all people, black and white, are equally sinful, that racism comes from our fallen nature, and that we can only be reconciled as the children of the same Lord.
None of O’Connor’s friends ever accused her of being a racist, not even Maryat Lee, to whom she often wrote in an ironic, antagonistic persona on racial matters. Wood cites an important, previously unpublished letter shared by William Sessions, in which O’Connor expressed support in 1963 for the civil rights movement, especially for the gains made in her region: “I feel very good about those changes in the South that have been long overdue — the whole racial picture. I think it is improving by the minute, particularly in Georgia, and I don’t see how anybody could feel otherwise than good about that.”
http://www.newoxfordreview.org/reviews.jsp?did=0106-gardiner
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I have read and reread everything that Flannery O’Connor (my favorite author of all time) has ever written–at least everything that got published. If she is a racist, she really had me totally fooled.
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