Comments on: The death of truth http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/ A forum for discussion of news that arises at the intersection of Christianity and culture. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:37:07 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Stephen http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-223162 Stephen Sat, 06 Oct 2007 17:05:48 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/#comment-223162 JJF, just to add to Pauline's comments... Besides accurate information, market success also depends on the rationality and morality of the actors. If information on products is available and people know that they're being produced by child labour but are nonetheless happy to have their coca-cola salt and pepper shakers made by ten year olds then a perfectly functioning market won't do you any good. Or, if you have some semblance of morality and possess all the necessary knowledge but lack the reasoning skills necessary to understand the situation at hand, you'll find the market paralyzed, since free market theory depends on the presumption of rational actors. *Hopefully continued in a second comment below, if it posts...* JJF, just to add to Pauline’s comments… Besides accurate information, market success also depends on the rationality and morality of the actors. If information on products is available and people know that they’re being produced by child labour but are nonetheless happy to have their coca-cola salt and pepper shakers made by ten year olds then a perfectly functioning market won’t do you any good. Or, if you have some semblance of morality and possess all the necessary knowledge but lack the reasoning skills necessary to understand the situation at hand, you’ll find the market paralyzed, since free market theory depends on the presumption of rational actors.

*Hopefully continued in a second comment below, if it posts…*

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]]> By: VS http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-223105 VS Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:48:04 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/#comment-223105 Yeah, that's what I did - thinking Zanzibar was ZZ. Yeah, that’s what I did – thinking Zanzibar was ZZ.

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]]> By: trr http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-223032 trr Fri, 05 Oct 2007 23:53:41 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/#comment-223032 Test. <a href="http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/05/audio-pick/" rel="nofollow">Head vs. Heart</a> Test.
Head vs. Heart

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]]> By: trr http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-223028 trr Fri, 05 Oct 2007 23:51:07 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/#comment-223028 I kinda thought you might be ZZ, Zanzibar, just based on the name. Anyway, I thought your comment on the http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/05/audio-pick/ (Head vs. Heart) thread was right on. I kinda thought you might be ZZ, Zanzibar, just based on the name.

Anyway, I thought your comment on the http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/05/audio-pick/ (Head vs. Heart) thread was right on.

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]]> By: Zanzibar http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-223007 Zanzibar Fri, 05 Oct 2007 21:43:35 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/#comment-223007 #14: Ah! VS, I forgot the usual suspect! Yes, I'm afraid it's Bush's fault as well. *All* Bush's fault, come to think of it. And ZZ, wherever he is, it's his fault too. He should have jumped at that opportunity, and he didn't, so now he's to blame. #14:

Ah! VS, I forgot the usual suspect! Yes, I’m afraid it’s Bush’s fault as well. *All* Bush’s fault, come to think of it.

And ZZ, wherever he is, it’s his fault too. He should have jumped at that opportunity, and he didn’t, so now he’s to blame.

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]]> By: VS http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-222997 VS Fri, 05 Oct 2007 21:06:39 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/#comment-222997 Our hearts - deceitfully wicked. It's so grievous when you catch your children or grandchildren in a lie - takes the blinders off! Some kids seem to have more of a problem with this than others - is it a male/female thing at all - one being more apt to lie? Both my son and grandson were/are more upfront about their actions, while my niece and granddaughter tend to be more sneaky and deceptive. At least you're not blaming Bush, Zanzibar. Our hearts – deceitfully wicked.

It’s so grievous when you catch your children or grandchildren in a lie – takes the blinders off! Some kids seem to have more of a problem with this than others – is it a male/female thing at all – one being more apt to lie? Both my son and grandson were/are more upfront about their actions, while my niece and granddaughter tend to be more sneaky and deceptive.

At least you’re not blaming Bush, Zanzibar.

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]]> By: Zanzibar http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-222975 Zanzibar Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:54:59 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/#comment-222975 "The pen is blue!" :-) Well, after reading this article, I have decided to stop beating my wife. If that made no sense to you at all, then my dodge is that I apologize for your inability to laugh at my terrible jokes. At this time, I'd also like to shift the blame to RandomName and Drill, with whom I'm apparently trying to compete with wackiest poster of the day. They made me do it. “The pen is blue!” :-)

Well, after reading this article, I have decided to stop beating my wife. If that made no sense to you at all, then my dodge is that I apologize for your inability to laugh at my terrible jokes. At this time, I’d also like to shift the blame to RandomName and Drill, with whom I’m apparently trying to compete with wackiest poster of the day. They made me do it.

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]]> By: Wiglaf http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-222971 Wiglaf Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:36:04 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/#comment-222971 I laughed my head off during the "Liar, Liar" scene with Carey in the office meeting telling the truth about everyone. Bribes occur where money replaces principles/morals. We see a lack of principles in multinational corporations as well as nations. Politicians are the worst...perhaps the voter is the worst. Really, who's bribing and who's receiving the bribe. It's just one big bribefest. I laughed my head off during the “Liar, Liar” scene with Carey in the office meeting telling the truth about everyone.

Bribes occur where money replaces principles/morals. We see a lack of principles in multinational corporations as well as nations. Politicians are the worst…perhaps the voter is the worst. Really, who’s bribing and who’s receiving the bribe. It’s just one big bribefest.

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]]> By: musing http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-222967 musing Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:23:41 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/#comment-222967 As I muttered today, it seemed to me that the situation is more complicated than it might seem. Indeed there are cases (Pauline's hair example) when saying nothign avoids a lie. There are cases, however, where the failure to speak is itself a lie. There are a number of criminal situations where this is true. My inclination is that the key is to tell the truth that needs to be told. Further we need to understand that all communication is raltively imprecise. We need to tailor our communication to get across the "true meaning". At times this may not be the literal truth. And at the end of the day, I use the shaving test. If I can tolerate looking at myself in the mirror in the morning while I shave, then I am not in too much trouble. :-) As I muttered today, it seemed to me that the situation is more complicated than it might seem.

Indeed there are cases (Pauline’s hair example) when saying nothign avoids a lie.

There are cases, however, where the failure to speak is itself a lie. There are a number of criminal situations where this is true.

My inclination is that the key is to tell the truth that needs to be told.

Further we need to understand that all communication is raltively imprecise. We need to tailor our communication to get across the “true meaning”. At times this may not be the literal truth.

And at the end of the day, I use the shaving test. If I can tolerate looking at myself in the mirror in the morning while I shave, then I am not in too much trouble. :-)

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]]> By: RR http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-222965 RR Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:22:52 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/05/the-death-of-truth/#comment-222965 re: 5. KRM, it's interesting that generally accepted accounting principal (GAAP - the legal standard for the accounting profession) recognizes the difference between a bribe and a grease payment. I'm not sure if this is the case elsewhere in law, though. For the uninitiated, GAAP says that if you're doing business operations in a culture where you just can't get anything done (say, imports or exports) without payments to every customs official, policeman, or petty bureaucrat who gets between you and what you're trying to do, you can include those payments in your cost of doing business. This is considered distinct from offering a payment to a government official in order to gain business, i.e., a bribe. re: 5. KRM, it’s interesting that generally accepted accounting principal (GAAP – the legal standard for the accounting profession) recognizes the difference between a bribe and a grease payment. I’m not sure if this is the case elsewhere in law, though.

For the uninitiated, GAAP says that if you’re doing business operations in a culture where you just can’t get anything done (say, imports or exports) without payments to every customs official, policeman, or petty bureaucrat who gets between you and what you’re trying to do, you can include those payments in your cost of doing business. This is considered distinct from offering a payment to a government official in order to gain business, i.e., a bribe.

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