Comments on: Leaving Green Acres http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/ A forum for discussion of news that arises at the intersection of Christianity and culture. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:48:41 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Jack http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/comment-page-1/#comment-227407 Jack Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:10:52 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/#comment-227407 <strong>Jack...</strong> cheap televisions... Jack…

cheap televisions…

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]]> By: metanoia http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/comment-page-1/#comment-225228 metanoia Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:50:13 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/#comment-225228 My favorite apologetic for the city is simply that the Bible starts in a garden and ends in a city. I'm a city dweller and have been most of my life. With the exception of a 4 year stint in the Air Force, two years in a small college town, and 6 years in the suburbs of a large city, I have always returned back to the city. There are a lot of myths about city life vs. country living. May claim that cities are unfriendly, dangerous, immoral etc. Only lazy students of sociology hold those views. A more in-depth study reveals that for the most part, cities are wonderful places to live and raise families. I wouldn't trade city living for anything. My favorite apologetic for the city is simply that the Bible starts in a garden and ends in a city.

I’m a city dweller and have been most of my life. With the exception of a 4 year stint in the Air Force, two years in a small college town, and 6 years in the suburbs of a large city, I have always returned back to the city.

There are a lot of myths about city life vs. country living. May claim that cities are unfriendly, dangerous, immoral etc. Only lazy students of sociology hold those views. A more in-depth study reveals that for the most part, cities are wonderful places to live and raise families.

I wouldn’t trade city living for anything.

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]]> By: Night Train http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/comment-page-1/#comment-224067 Night Train Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:31:19 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/#comment-224067 Actually, the whole premise of the article is wrong. America, just like the rest of the world, becomes more urban and less rural every day. Most people in America live in cities, and that includes Christians. The trend of moving from rural to urban has been going on for well over a century, and shows no sign of reversing. I have no idea where Olasky got the idea that Christians have abandoned the cities for rural areas. They might prefer suburbs to the inner city, but that's not what he's saying. And that's largely due to crime. Actually, the whole premise of the article is wrong. America, just like the rest of the world, becomes more urban and less rural every day. Most people in America live in cities, and that includes Christians. The trend of moving from rural to urban has been going on for well over a century, and shows no sign of reversing. I have no idea where Olasky got the idea that Christians have abandoned the cities for rural areas. They might prefer suburbs to the inner city, but that’s not what he’s saying. And that’s largely due to crime.

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]]> By: Amphipolis http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/comment-page-1/#comment-223950 Amphipolis Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:33:33 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/#comment-223950 By the way - I just noticed my post 8, I thought it didn't go through. Sorry about the redundancy. By the way – I just noticed my post 8, I thought it didn’t go through. Sorry about the redundancy.

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]]> By: Amphipolis http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/comment-page-1/#comment-223935 Amphipolis Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:02:39 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/#comment-223935 The Biblical arguments for urban life seem cherry picked and misapplied. I could present lots of arguments for Christians to go out to all the world, how God on occasion deliberately scattered them from the city. The emphasis on cities needs to be shown to be theological, and not just because that was where the people were. Once again, shallow reasoning. I heard it for years before I saw the holes. I would have no problem with it if it stays away from the realm of moral imperative, and concentrates on the idea of calling - specific people called to reach specific people. Not elite Christians living in condos. I know of a church that was very proud that it did not leave the city like lesser churches did. But 80% of its members commuted from the suburbs and had little consideration for real (as opposed to theoretical) urban issues. Those who actually lived in "the neighborhoods" (as opposed to the wealthy downtown) were on their own. Thankfully, this has largely changed. The Biblical arguments for urban life seem cherry picked and misapplied. I could present lots of arguments for Christians to go out to all the world, how God on occasion deliberately scattered them from the city. The emphasis on cities needs to be shown to be theological, and not just because that was where the people were.

Once again, shallow reasoning. I heard it for years before I saw the holes. I would have no problem with it if it stays away from the realm of moral imperative, and concentrates on the idea of calling – specific people called to reach specific people. Not elite Christians living in condos.

I know of a church that was very proud that it did not leave the city like lesser churches did. But 80% of its members commuted from the suburbs and had little consideration for real (as opposed to theoretical) urban issues. Those who actually lived in “the neighborhoods” (as opposed to the wealthy downtown) were on their own. Thankfully, this has largely changed.

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]]> By: Amphipolis http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/comment-page-1/#comment-223917 Amphipolis Tue, 09 Oct 2007 13:35:01 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/#comment-223917 I wouldn't go that far. Olasky's Tragedy of American Compassion is on my shelf. He is not being PC. I just wish that a more comprehensive analysis was applied here. I'm being a little harsh on a story that was probably not meant to be comprehensive, but hey - you hit a nerve. People respond to this kind of hype. I think the issues, once brought up, deserve a lot more thought. I specifically take issue with the link between the decline of Christian cultural influence and the exodus from urban areas, the exaggerated importance of urban over country/suburban residency, the implied obligation of Christians to move to the cities, and the lack of consideration to the real life issues that would hold people back. These are serious issues that warrant serious discussion. I mostly agree with the trajectory of the discussion, I just question the exaggeration and the rationale. It's OK to present something as a good idea or a wise suggestion. Let's not warp it with flimsy reasoning into a false moral imperative. Caveats may not make exciting reading, but they do make a more thoughtful article which is what I expect here. I wouldn’t go that far. Olasky’s Tragedy of American Compassion is on my shelf. He is not being PC. I just wish that a more comprehensive analysis was applied here. I’m being a little harsh on a story that was probably not meant to be comprehensive, but hey – you hit a nerve. People respond to this kind of hype. I think the issues, once brought up, deserve a lot more thought.

I specifically take issue with the link between the decline of Christian cultural influence and the exodus from urban areas, the exaggerated importance of urban over country/suburban residency, the implied obligation of Christians to move to the cities, and the lack of consideration to the real life issues that would hold people back.

These are serious issues that warrant serious discussion. I mostly agree with the trajectory of the discussion, I just question the exaggeration and the rationale. It’s OK to present something as a good idea or a wise suggestion. Let’s not warp it with flimsy reasoning into a false moral imperative. Caveats may not make exciting reading, but they do make a more thoughtful article which is what I expect here.

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]]> By: Night Train http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/comment-page-1/#comment-223779 Night Train Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:52:34 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/#comment-223779 Make that "very PC". Preview window please! Make that “very PC”.

Preview window please!

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]]> By: Night Train http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/comment-page-1/#comment-223777 Night Train Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:52:03 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/#comment-223777 4th sentence should read: It’s also ver PC, while blaming the people who’ve made our cities so dangerous isn’t. 4th sentence should read:

It’s also ver PC, while blaming the people who’ve made our cities so dangerous isn’t.

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]]> By: Night Train http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/comment-page-1/#comment-223776 Night Train Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:50:17 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/#comment-223776 Well said, Ampipholis. You most certainly should question Marvin's analysis, because there wasn't any. It was just another guilt trip to lay on Christians. Instead of focusing on the people who are destroying our cities and making people flee them through their brutality, larceny, and violence, it's a lot easier to just hit Christians over the head and blame them. It's also, while blaming the people who've made our cities so dangerous isn't. Writing this article didn't require much thought at all, let alone analysis. Talking about moving to big cities, or discussing why people leave them, without even mentioning crime is extremely irresponsible, and the (what can only be) deliberate refusal to even mention violence and crime as reasons for people avoiding living in cities in this article is inexcusable. Well said, Ampipholis. You most certainly should question Marvin’s analysis, because there wasn’t any. It was just another guilt trip to lay on Christians. Instead of focusing on the people who are destroying our cities and making people flee them through their brutality, larceny, and violence, it’s a lot easier to just hit Christians over the head and blame them. It’s also, while blaming the people who’ve made our cities so dangerous isn’t. Writing this article didn’t require much thought at all, let alone analysis.

Talking about moving to big cities, or discussing why people leave them, without even mentioning crime is extremely irresponsible, and the (what can only be) deliberate refusal to even mention violence and crime as reasons for people avoiding living in cities in this article is inexcusable.

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]]> By: Amphipolis http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/comment-page-1/#comment-223584 Amphipolis Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:35:17 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/06/leaving-green-acres/#comment-223584 Race riots, housing projects, welfare, degeneration of once great urban schools (it happened in one generation), crime left unpunished, cheap drugs, public corruption - these are what drove people to the green pastures of the suburbs. And many (most?) suburbs are as pagan as the inner city. The more I contemplate Olasky's article, the more I question his analysis. The ideas never quite get connected to the conclusions, or to the real world. Comparing Rome to modern America is a stretch - was there a significant rural/suburban population in ancient Rome? Was Paul going to the cities, or to where the people were? I agree with the sentiment, just not the rationale or the guilt trip put on Suburban Christians. I've lived out these ideas. The elite urban attitudes were once mine. Maybe I became a bit disillusioned. Race riots, housing projects, welfare, degeneration of once great urban schools (it happened in one generation), crime left unpunished, cheap drugs, public corruption – these are what drove people to the green pastures of the suburbs. And many (most?) suburbs are as pagan as the inner city.

The more I contemplate Olasky’s article, the more I question his analysis. The ideas never quite get connected to the conclusions, or to the real world. Comparing Rome to modern America is a stretch – was there a significant rural/suburban population in ancient Rome? Was Paul going to the cities, or to where the people were?

I agree with the sentiment, just not the rationale or the guilt trip put on Suburban Christians. I’ve lived out these ideas. The elite urban attitudes were once mine. Maybe I became a bit disillusioned.

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