Should evangelicals bolt the GOP?
If the Republican Party nominates a pro-abortion candidate for president, should conservative Christians throw their support behind a third-party candidate? That was the question on the table at a meeting of 40 Christian leaders — including James Dobson, Tony Perkins, and Gary Bauer — in Salt Lake City on September 29. The answer, it turned out, was “yes.” Warren Cole Smith reports for WORLD:
Though the vote among the activists in Salt Lake City was nearly unanimous, even many of those in the room said it’s too early.
“The reason conservatives don’t have the kind of influence in the party we want is because we are not willing to get in the trenches,” said a Washington, D.C., activist who spoke at the meeting but did not give permission to be quoted. “We’re talking about taking over the presidency, when we can’t even take over our own county commissions and city councils.”
Indeed, the logistics of mounting a third-party campaign in just a few months would be daunting. Early in the meeting, Fischer and historian and conservative activist Bill Federer made a brief presentation that concluded no third party had ever made a successful run at the White House. Jim Clymer, president of the Constitution Party, acknowledged that his own party, which has been at this for years, is not even on the ballot in many states.
If the cost of running a third-party candidate is great, the cost of tilting the election toward the Democrats, which a conservative third-party candidate would likely do, is even greater. On the Monday after the meeting, Gary Bauer wrote to his supporters: “It would break my heart if we ended up with two pro-abortion candidates. Nonetheless, I urged extreme caution to those attending this meeting. We should not forget that the Clinton presidency came about because a third-party effort divided conservative votes in 1992. The Clinton years were a disaster.”
Bauer went on to say that “the one thing the pro-family movement would be very hard pressed to recover from is another Clinton presidency in 2009.”
OTOH, Dobson, who for years has railed against the GOP’s tendency to woo evangelicals at election time then kick them to the curb once elected, insisted that it’s time the party understood that abortion is a make-or-break issue for this key constituency. Whose position do you more closely align with — Dobson’s or Bauer’s?













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back to top52 Comments to “Should evangelicals bolt the GOP?”
I have to go with Dobson on this one. I understand where Bauer and others are coming from, but I have to vote my conscience and remember that God is sovereign.
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On this one, VS and I disagree. The thought of a Hillary presidency scares me to death. What I would recommend is getting good, like-minded people to run for Congress, both houses. The president only proposes legislation. It is the legislators who actually craft the bills and vote on them. (In other words, if we had a decent Congress, we’d be going places). I also don’t want Hillary nominating the next Supreme Court justice. I, for one, will bite the bullit, hold my nose, whatever, and vote against Hillary rather than “for” the Republican by voting Republican.
The Republicans should have known when they were in power that the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away and they should have done what they were elected to do. They didn’t. If they’re worried–and they should be–they should have shaped up long ago. Congress’s ratings are lower than President Bush’s and that should tell BOTH parties something. As a whole, we the people are truly bent out of shape. They work for us; we should expect them to earn what we pay them or kick them out until we get what we want. Enough is enough.
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If the Repulicans runs someone who is not pro-life, I will not vote for them. Maybe 4 years of Hillary will shock some sense into this country. I would love to see Mike Huckabee in office, but realize his chances are slim.
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We need to concentrate on electing an acceptable candidate in the primary. We need to throw our support behind the most likely pro-life candidate. Any other speculation is premature and counter productive. We don’t like Rudy, fine – if we are really that powerful, we can show it in the primaries.
Third parties are always dominated by cranks. We could build up a good party, but it will be taken over by a rich kook. That is the way of the world. And all we would do is become the spoiler.
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Guliani has been pretty clear in saying that he will nominate judges in the vein of Roberts and Alito, and that satisfies for me any doubt that he’d make a good president.
Allowing Hillary to be in office for 4-8 years and solidify the SCOTUS for the left for the foreseeable future is unacceptable.
Deb: We should have been shocked enough by having Pelosi and Reid put in charge of Congress.
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Tough call. Like many others, I bolted in ‘96. Without getting into what’s happened since his election, there’s no denying that GWB was the Republican Establishment candidate in 2000. It doesn’t look like we bolters accomplished much then.
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The lesser of two evils is better than the greater of two evils and a vote for a third party would be a vote for Hilary or whoever. That is what my head says. However my heart says can I trust God and do the right thing. Voting for a pro-abortion candidate would be wrong.
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Well, my Democratic side says “go ahead and split off into a 3rd party” because it will be good for my side.
Conservative Christians are learning some lessons that others of us have known for years:
1. You never have as much “clout” as you think you have. I know ya’ll don’t want to hear this, but I think conservative Christians reached the zenith of their power right around the 2004 election and the Terry Schiavo case.
2. You are just another “fish in the sea” of politics. Like African-Americans, womens groups, GLBT’s, teachers, etc., conservative Christians are another special interest block – nothing more, nothing less.
3. The Party needs you to work for their candidates and for your votes on election day. The rest of the time, they’d be happy if you’d go away.
4. Building coalitions with other groups within the party is the only way to get your ideas turned into real action. Conservative Christians have been unwilling to do that. In fact, they’ve made enemies out of groups that might have worked with them on some things.
5. Most people are practical, not zealots for a cause. People may be sympathetic toward a certain view, but they are willing to compromise to get a little of what they want. A one-issue or two issue agenda (anti-choice, anti-gay) turns people off. Most people think in gray, not black and white.
6. Politics is a corrupt business because it involves money, power, and it’s made up of human beings who can be (and are) easily corrupted by it. Some of us warned you that if you got in bed with politics you were gonna get corrupted.
I think conservative Christians have run up against a wall. Having reached the outer limits of their power and ability to enact their agenda, their are few options left. One either has to compromise or give up.
Finally, what do you think the Republican Party honchos are going to do about Dr. Dobbie’s threat to take his ball and go home? They’re going to call his bluff. Hide and watch.
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I will vote against any Democrat. SCOTUS…
How many of us have run for any political office?
I am now retired and thinking that it is now or never.
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Yes, they should bolt the GOP to some good, solid principles by which they will live and govern.
(That’s the gist of what crossed my mind when I read the thread title.)
But not just the GOP needs bolting.
I need to check my own bolts. Are they bolting me to Jesus and His Word? Are they tight and secure?
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Rudy wants to neutralize social conservatives by either getting them to leave the party prematurely or support him prematurely.
It’s the primaries, people. Get a grip.
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Speaking only politically, Anlir makes a lot of sense. When a person or group are only one or two issues one wonders if they understand politics. It is a game of back-scratching compromises. You have to sacrifices some pieces to control the whole board. That is why Dobson has lost so much of whatever clout he had even among evangelicals.
Speaking only morally, there is no compromise between life and death. But the Bible doesn’t say the heart of man is change through politics does it?
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Yes, dear g-d yes!
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NJL,
Your analysis has one major law in it; the GOP has absolutely ZERO chance of recovering either house of congress in the next presidents first term. I can promise you that if Rudy gets elected, the partial birth abortion ban and “Dont ask dont tell” will not survive his first term. And he’ll sign hate crime and work place discrimination laws for LGBT people, and if he nominates justices in the vein of Roberts (keep in mind nominating in the vein of Alito would not be an option in a Democratic Senate) he will hardly be securing the bench for your aims.
Sorry to say this (actually not that sorry), but you went along with W on a racist and idiotic war and your “Christian family values” are up a creek because of it!
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According to Rasmussen, Fred Thompson and Rudy Giuliani are even in the polls. Assuming Fred does well in the upcoming debate, we ought to be debating whether to push for Fred in the primaries, not whether to bolt. The liberals want us to leave the GOP or support Rudy. There are other options. These premature debates play into their hands.
I don’t trust Rudy with judges. If Bush was wobly, how will Rudy be? And there are other issues. I don’t think I could vote for Rudy. But I could vote for Fred, and I think Dobson is a fool for speaking against him now.
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NJ Lawyer makes a good case. I’ve posted before that Dobson is flat out wrong. I say that as one who is passionately right-to-life. I am not electing a pastor, but a President and members of Congress. I want a secure nation for my grandchildren, free from intrusive government – something the socialist/democrat left and big government republicans will not do. In so doing I want a candidate who ‘best’ represents my views. The only person who is fully qualified to represent me is me, and I am not running for elected office!
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Adios (#12) hits on an important point in challenging the notion that politics is savior. The main failing that I see in the American Church and its impact on culture and society is its abandonment of God’s primary means of societal and cultural change … His Church. I have in mind, primarily, the exercise of the Church’s authority in matters of morality by the instrument of church discipline and even excommunication. I may have missed it, but when was the last time the American Church (in its most legitimate capacity to do so) has disciplined or excommunicated a prominent member? Of any denomination or branch of God’s Church?
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Oh, boy. I’m definitely siding with Dobson on this one. By the way, I don’t know the number, but I heard somebody report that only two or three people at the meeting abstained from voting or voted to support the GOP no matter what. So, it’s not just Dobson.
I have been very active in politics in the past–until I moved overseas and it became impractical.(Bob Buckles, I ran unsuccessfully for precinct chairman.) I have attended fundraisers, campaigned for local candidates, proposed resolutions to the party, and attended local and state conventions. I did all of these things primarily because I wanted to influence my society according to my convictions.
I am a devoted member of the Republican Party, and I am very concerned about taxes, defense, budgets, education, and other issues. However, if I have to vote for a “pro-choice” candidate I will not vote for a Republican. I haven’t locally, and I won’t nationally.
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Remind Bauer that if he spent more time in the trenches, he’d realize that suffering is what bonds warriors together because God’s power is made perfect in weakness. Let God do the salvaging.
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Abortion and gay marriage are here to stay. They’re not going anywhere. Because the Democrats will soon have a demographic lock on the electoral college, and on more and more state and congressional districts. And there’s nothing evangelicals can do about it but get used to it. The other day WMB wrote about a report by someone who said something to the effect that if the GOP and conservatives don’t stop opposing illegal immigration, then Hispanics in TX and other states could come out in droves and support the Dems in 2008, ensuring a Dem victory.
Well, anyone who thinks the GOP has a chance at the White House in 2008 is on drugs. On top of that, TX may not flip Democrat in 2008, but it’s just a few years down the road. 60% of the babies being born in TX are Hispanic. Hispanics vote 2-1 Democrat. They always have, and there’s no reason to think that they’ll stop. Everyone says that Bush made real inroads with Hispanics by getting 44% of their votes. Well, that’s still a losing percentage. Second, he didn’t. It’s a myth, and it was demolished by careful analysis. Wish I had a link, but don’t.
White people tend to vote conservative/GOP. Non-white people overwhelmingly tend to vote liberal/Dem. America is beocming less white, and more non white, every day. A few years ago, 80% of the babies being born in America were white. Now it’s 50%. When these kids grow up, they will make a lastin impact on politics. As the change happens, the political change will follow. In 10 years or so, it’s going to be impossible to elect a conservative president.
Some will say that black and brown people will one day soon wake up and see that conservatism is in their best interests, and quit voting Democrat. But there’s no evidence of that; it’s merely wishful thinking. Plus, they’ve been saying it for 40 years now, and nohting has changed. Blacks continue to vote 9-1 Dem, and Hispanics continue to vote 2-1 Dem. The best predictor of the future is the past.
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First of all, whether conservative Christians vote GOP or not, we need to realize that only God can change the heart of the nation, and He does that through the proclamation of the gospel. Put not your trust in princes or presidents, because the government’s power of the sword never made any Christians. If you want to see our nation change, proclaim the gospel to your neighbors, family, friends, and coworkers.
Second, the religious right needs to stop acting like a special interest group. Special interest groups are seeking their own interests. They tell a candidate, “give us what we want, and we will vote for you.” Christians ought not seek their own interests, or they are just considered one of the many selfish groups, like abortions rights groups, GLBT groups, and racial voting blocs. Christians ought to be entirely different. We are not seeking our own interests at the expense of others. We seek the good of the entire nation. We seek truth and justice. We hold statesman accountable, regardless of party affiliation. We value our allegiance to King Jesus far above any party allegiance.
If we are intent on seeing our nation return to Christ, we will proclaim the gospel to individuals and the entire nation. We must work for justice by fulfilling our duty to help the poor and the widow, as well as electing godly officials. Because special interest groups are selfish, they compromise to achieve their own ends. Because we work for the glory of God, and not our own ends, we must not compromise. We must obey God, rather than men. There is a difference between compromising with evil and allowing for Christian liberty. We must allow for Christian liberty. But we must not compromise with evil.
PRO CHRISTO ET PATRIA
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dear g-d, what is it about talking about faith that makes you people love passive sentences? “Put not your trust”? Does Jesus have something against the word “Don’t”?
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Good post, A (19)!
The Church must be … well, the Church. Abdication has brought the Church to its current beggarly posture. We need to stop begging and start obeying.
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I agree with NJLawyer at the top of the thread, and A has a good post just above too. I believe Dobson and those like him are focusing their energy in the wrong direction. We need a strong congress in Washington and in our states. Presidents are very important players, but they are not the whole ball game. And defending the unborn is a critical policy for everyone in the country, but it isn’t the only way one should defend life.
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It’s definitely time for evangelicals to excommunicate America.
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It’s rare indeed when I agree with Dobson, but in this case his politics are better than Bauer’s. Yes, it would probably mean the Dems win in 2008, but that’s exactly what it will take for the Republicans to take the Christian right seriously in policy matters — they have to realize that they can’t win without them.
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My heart says go with Dobson, but when November 2008 rolls around, I will probably hold my nose and vote for whomever the Republicans put up there.
I agree with those who say we need to work on the primaries to get an acceptable candidate on the ballot.
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“Guliani has been pretty clear in saying that he will nominate judges in the vein of Roberts and Alito, and that satisfies for me any doubt that he’d make a good president.”
Of course it does. Why do you think he says it? Because he knows millions of people like you will ignore his actual record compiled when he was in office for years, and ignore the fact that politicians tend to say things they think primary voters want to hear, and will believer him.
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Belgium will not divide over languages, government says
Winston-Salem Journal
BRUSSELS, Belgium — Belgium has sent an unusual memo to its embassies around the world: If anyone asks whether the country’s Dutch- and French-speaking parts are splitting up, say “No.”
Nearly four months after general elections, Belgium’s squabbling political parties still have not put a government together because of a deadlock over demands for more self-rule in Dutch-speaking Flanders and French-speaking Wallonia.
The political stalemate has led to media and public speculation that Belgium might be better off breaking up, prompting Foreign Minister Karel de Gucht to offer “useful talking points” to embassy staffs meant to reassure Belgium’s political and business partners worldwide.
Belgium has 6.5 million Dutch-speakers and 4 million Francophones. The country — a federation and constitutional monarchy — also gives a high degree of self-rule to its three regions.
The national parliament is elected according to a plan meant to balance representation of the Walloons and Flemish.
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The reason I posted the message about Belgium is that I have learned from reading worldmagblog that anything Western Europe is for United States Americans should be against. Advanced thinking leads me to conclude anything they are against, we should be for. In short, if Belgium is not going to split into two countries because the country is comprised of two incompatible linguistic groups, American should divide for exactly that reason.
Now we have to decide where we put all the people who speak Evangelical and where we put all the people speak Secular.
I’m working on names for the new countries. Evangelica is the obvious choice to me for one of the countries but you may have a better one; after all, most of you are native speakers; the best I can speak is pidgin Evangelica.
For the other country, I am thinking: Sexucaria, but it’s early yet.
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It kills me that there are evangelicals who actually believe in Fred Thompson as the great conservative hope. Boy, I know when I think of people who’ve led the fight against abortion and gay marriage, Fred’s right at the top of the list! Sure he is. Fred got his g/f pregnant and had to get married. After decades of marriage, she finally dumped him after decades of cheating. He’s had several romances since then, one with Lorrie Morgan, nobody’s idea of a virtuous woman, and has now hooked up with a gold digging tramp half his age who dresses like a hooker. She was living with a man when she met Fred. She’d even taken the man’s name.
Yeah, Fred’s Mr. Conservative. I’m sure a man who’s had countless extramarital affairs is really going to knock himself out trying to ban abortion.
Evangelicals are crazy.
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Also, I can’t help but notice that WOTW is continuing to studiously ignore Larry Craig’s announcement that he’s staying in the Senate after all, his arrest stemming from his lewd homosexual behavior in a restroom notwithstanding.
Why is that, Lynn?
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Night Train,
There is another story to be avoided.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/10/08/another-toe-tapping-republican-caught-in-sting-ends-senate-bid/
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Random Name, In furtherance of your modest proposal to separate Evangelical-speaking people from Secular-speaking people, I submit for your consideration the beginnings of a “rosetta stone”, to help tranlate between the two languages:
Evangelica Secular
white black
black white
good evil
evil good
God Satan
Satan God
It really helps to understand your neighbors.
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The only two Republicans I stay around the GOP for are Paul and Huckabee. I bolt on any Frudy McRomney. I don’t agree with Huckabee on his big government conservatism but I do think he will follow through with conservative justices, I also do not think he wins against any democrat. Paul on the other hand follows the line of “old consrevatism” of limit fedral government. His Supreme Court justices would be strict constutionalist just like him. I really do think that Hillary is very vulerable to him as well. He puts the smack down on her on the war on other libertarian issues but appeals (sans the war issue) to the right.
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Dstocker61,
Huckabee strikes me as a fairly decent guy, even though I would be totally opposed to his politics. I’ve seen him on Colbert, and he has a good sense of humor and doesn’t seem like he wears his religion on his shirt-sleeve.
Ron Paul ya gotta love. He makes watching the Republican debates fun, even though they severely limit his speaking time. He’s so cranky and old that he’s retro-cool. He’s definitely an old-line conservative ala Barry Goldwater. Actually, he kind of reminds me of Ross Perot.
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I like Rudy. No one answers tough questions better than he does. He is wrong about abortion, but a President has little to do with this issue. It is a matter for the courts and Rudy has promised to nominate conservative judges.
Going third party guarantees that Hillary will be elected, which will send the court back into left field thus solidifying abortion all the more.
Christian conservatives have a real problem separating church from state. The Kingdom of God is not of this world. We are commanded to be good citizens, but this is orthogonal to the mission of the church. Mixing the two leads to confusion.
As a citizen, Christians should vote for candidates who will be best for the country, or at least the lesser of to evils from a civic perspective.
Our real citizenship is in heaven. Civics is such a minor aspect of Christian life. One could sum up Jesus’ entire civic involvement with simply paying his taxes. That’s it? Why can’t we be more like him?
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When I think as an American I choose to vote Republican.
When I think as a Christian, I choose not to vote for Rudy or Hillary or Obama.
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“Christian conservatives have a real problem separating church from state. The Kingdom of God is not of this world. We are commanded to be good citizens, but this is orthogonal to the mission of the church. Mixing the two leads to confusion.”
Oh I’m saving this quote for the next ACLU/Ten Commandments debate!
Not to sound like a broken record, but if abortion is the only issue you have to vote on this cycle, you have already lost.
Even if Tancredo or Keys should find his way into office, it’s over. Upholding the dilation and extraction ban is the absolute best that you can hope for. The democratic Senate will not let you put another Scalito on the bench. They won’t fund your faith-based initiatives without comprehensive education requirements. Your mandates for looking at sonograms are over! That’s about it.
No, you shouldn’t bolt if Rudy is the nominee. This is actually genuine advice for you! You should make decisions based on what issues are going to be in-play on the federal level for the terms your talking about. And with the democrats about to strengthen their senate majority by 5 or 6 seats, pro-life advocacy will be on hold until further notice.
Now, Rudy might just veto an over turn of the dilation and extraction ban; I could see him doing that in order to prevent a rebellion. Go with that, because he’s offering you the best you have available.
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Wow. A post from Luke I actually agree with.
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Oh this is just my talent or analysis you’re agreeing with, not my opinions. That should offer you some comfort.
Rudy becoming President would be absolutely horrid for America. But abortion has nothing to do with that.
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Bolt! Bolt! Bolt! Bolt!
I’m thinking perhaps I should take some friends to the next rally by a Republican nominee and start chanting those words. We could wear t-shirts with Dr. Dobbbie’s picture on them. I can be such a trouble maker
Seriously, it’s interesting to watch the cleavage in the conservative Christian ranks between those who want to be practical and those who want to be principled. Who saw that coming after the announcement in 2004 that conservative Christians had finally arrived in the Promised Land?
Don’t worry, we’ve got our “nutters” on the left too. But we’re unified by something greater: 7 (soon to be
years of disastrous rule by Bush. I just hope the Democrats don’t blow their golden ticket!
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oooh, that’s interesting how the worldmag filters changed my “…(soon to be eight) years…” sentence.
Folks, if you use the number “8″, make sure you don’t use a “)” after it. Otherwise, it changes it into a smiley face in sunglasses
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Oh yeah, Anlir.
Dobson is an idiot on this one, but if he really wants to make something out of it, I’ll volunteer time.
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This is the election where Christians realize we do not have to vote the lesser of two evils. We can vote according to principle and see if the Republican Party changes its tune.
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Gee, if its a foregone conclusion that Christians will put Hillary in the White House to teach Republicans a lesson, then can we please elect her now and forego another year of senseless attack ads dirty politics and lies? Please?
Perhaps this is the other extreme of the church / state separation coin. Given that politics is so unimportant in the grand scheme of things, what difference does it make to vote for whomever is best for America vs. the worst?
If Christ’s kingdom is not of this world, then who cares if we throw elections? Perhaps it is all just part of hastening the end. Who knows which is more in line with God’s will?
My perspective still, is to use logic and reason to elect someone who will be of the greatest benefit to my country, or the least detriment. For this reason, I will always try to pick the candidate who will do the least harm. My track record so far is not that great. Perhaps darts or the casting of lots might work better in the future.
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If abortion is your main issue, any Republican president in 2009 will certainly give you your heart’s desire, a Supreme Court that will overturn Roe. I’m unable to eradicate the suspicion that the political shock of such an outcome is the last thing Dr. Dobson or any other Republican potentate wants.
The “pro-family” movement will thrive wonderfully under President Hillary Clinton. What Bauer et al could never recover from is another Republican president. Hillary may be able to replace only liberal justices in the minority, allowing Justice Kennedy to continue tantalizing/tormenting evangelicals with his policy or restricting but not overturning abortion rights. Just what Dr. Dobson needs. The last thing he needs is the end of abortion politics.
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I remember Presidents starting with Truman. I do not remember a President I admired. I don’t think anyone should be President. However, I do not remember a tag cloud of candidates less promising than the current cloud. I think I may finally get my wish.
We may have finally reached the point where no one will be elected President. I am not sure exactly how that is possible, but I suspect it has something to do with the electoral college. Perhaps they will all refuse to vote.
On the other hand, perhaps one elector will vote, perhaps for Ross Perot, thus carrying the day.
Away.
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From Wikipedia:
Since then, Perot has been largely silent on political issues, refusing to answer most questions about politics from the press. Whenever a paper has secured an interview with him he usually remains on the subject of his business career and refuses to answer the more specific questions on politics, candidates, or his past activities.
You go, Ross baby! He’s just waiting for our call!
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“If abortion is your main issue, any Republican president in 2009 will certainly give you your heart’s desire, a Supreme Court that will overturn Roe.”
Interesting that you would think so! How do you imagine anyone pulling that off? Have you even looked at the set up for the 2008 and 2010 senate races? There is ZERO chance that the republicans will gain seats before 2012.
Roberts was a disappointment to anti-choice conservatives, and there is no way he could get himself confirmed in a Democratic majority!
And while the liberals on the court are getting old, so are the conservatives. Kennedy and Scalia are well into their 70’s. Is it possible that they could hold out for another 8 years should it come down to that?
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Luke —
When Mary Landrieu lays herself down to sleep, she prays that she’ll wake up to news of a fifth anti-Roe justice. That would wipe away all her political troubles and terminante Republican ascendency all over the Midwest. Republicans in the national headquarters would jump out of windows.
22 Democratic senators voted to confirm Roberts and 4 voted to confirm Alito. The next Republican nominee will be another brilliant Federalist, probably a female African American. Imagine swing state Democrats in the wake of a 2008 Republican presidential victory and try to picture them blocking such a nominee. If they are smart, they will let the president have his fifth vote to overturn.
Luke, this is a hard conservative court, even without a fifth vote to overturn Roe. Unless Scalia and Kennedy decide to retire, no president can turn that around. Conservatives have won that institution.
What will the Christian Right have gained? A court that has turned to ashes when it comes to the concept that universal principles of right can be enforced at the federal level. The hatred of their fellow citizens and the prospect of defeat in state after state.
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Scroop is right. I don’t believe Roe will ever be overturned, but if it is, the ban on abortion won’t last long. People want their premarital and extramarital sex, and they want it without having to worry about pregnancy. If it goes to the states, you may have a few holdouts like Utah, but abortions will be legal and available within driving distance for just about every woman in the country.
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