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God’s Harvard
Patrick Henry College, a conservative school famous for matching Capitol Hill internships with whip-smart, Republican ex-homeschoolers, has been profiled in publications from Time to the New York Times. But former Washington Post writer Hanna Rosin wanted to go deeper, so she embedded herself at PHC for 18 months to see what made the institution tick. The result is God’s Harvard: A Christian College on a Mission to Save America. In a Q&A interview with WORLD, Rosin, who has been a prominent critic of evangelicals, discusses PHC students’ approach to God, ideas, sex, and revolution.
back to top18 Comments to “God’s Harvard”
Thanks for the link to the Interview. And for the reminder and warning…
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How does a past-college-aged reporter “embed” herself at a college? As an instructor? Nontraditional student taking classes? Hang around the student union?
Just curious.
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My standard for judging the academic integrity of a school has always been whether they have breadth in their teaching staff. I have yet to find a Christian school that taught Marx properly.
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I too was curiious about what “embedded” meant? Was she taking classes? Teaching them? Working in food service? That term should’ve been explained.
PHC’s attempt to make a serious Christian impact on American culture will come to nought. If you doubt it, reread this passage:
Homophobia is a PC buzzword. Not being homophobic means regarding homosexuality as no big deal, and certainly nothing to be alarmed about. The word literally means “fear of the same”, but when it first began to be bandied about it referred to violence against homosexuals. It has since come to mean disgust or revulsion at or disapproval of homosexuality, period. Regarding homosexuality as anything to be alarmed about, or in any way less desirable than heterosexuality is what people these days mean by homophobia. And at PHC they’ve absorbed the notion that these views are as sinful as homosexuality? That’s incredible. And it flies in the face of 2000 years of Christian teaching. They certainly didn’t absorb these views from the Bible. Rosin says they’re not crazy enough to say gay people caused 9/11. Well, most Christians regard bad things happening to a nation as judgment from God. And the Bible certainly teaches that homosexuality brings God’s judgment, at least it does according t 2000 years of Christian teaching about Sodom and Gomorrah, and the book of Romans. But PHC is sure God’s not angry enough about homosexuality in America to punish us with 9/11. And, furthermore, they’re of the opinion that being disgusted by homosexuals is as sinful as homosexuality itself. Again, that’s incredible. Any religion or sect that teaches or believes that has absorbed much more from the outside culture than they have from the Bible. In the Bible, homosexuality is a Very Big Deal, and it’s Very, Very Bad. Far worse than just about any other sin. But PHC disagrees and says they’re sure that homosexuality didn’t bring 9/11 on America, and that “homophobia” is just as bad as homosexuality.
This isn’t historic Christianity by a long shot.
PHC will have no impact on the culture, but the culture has already had a huge impact on PHC.
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Night Train, you need to get out in the sun more often.
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Why’s that, RN? I take it you disagree with my post. Why don’t you show me where I got it wrong?
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Night Train,
Because you spoke in overblown hyperbole. Homosexuality is not the worst sin the Bible. Not loving God, followed by not loving your neighbor are according to Christ. In addition, leading a child astray, hypocrisy in a leader of any type, hypocrisy in anyone, seem to rank right up there, and certainly sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. (see Galatians 5)
And, however you have decided to redefine homophobia, it is obvious that the members of this college are defining it in the more traditional way.
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RR,
Students who are “past-college-age” are not as startling as you seem to think. I returned to college after six years in the Navy, back in 1992. I found other students older than I, and no one suspected us of being undercover. I was at a state school. I dunno, maybe Patrick Henry is way more homogeneous. . .
More to the point, I challenge Night Train’s assertion that the Bible places homosexuality at some higher of sinfulness than all other sins. Lists of sins, such as found in Prov. 6:16-19, 2Tim3, Rev. 21:8, and Gal. 5:19-21 do not include homosexuality specifically. It’s in the list in 1Cor6:9 – right in the middle.
I am not arguing that it isn’t a sin, but surely if it were the worst sin of all, it would be at the top of every list, or somewhere it would actually say something to the effect of: “The worst sin of all is. . .” It doesn’t.
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How funny. My similarly-named fellow blogger TRS chose to address the same thing I did!
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Because you spoke in overblown hyperbole. Homosexuality is not the worst sin the Bible.
Once again, a careless reader comes on to correct me for something I never said, upbraid me for what they imagined me saying, and ignore my actual words. This must be one of the commenting requirements in the TOS that I somehow overlooked. I’m going to start castigating QWERTY for trying to convert everyone to Christianity, and I’m going to start taking Outkast to task for misusing his genius to defend atheism. And then I think I’ll attack VS, TRS, and Frank from Phoenix for being nitpicking sticklers for detail.
For the record, for those new readers who don’t understand that commenters aren’t allowed to criticize other commenter for what they actually said, but are required to make stuff up, accuse the other commenter of saying that, and then criticize them on the basis of the made up charge, I’d like to point out that I never once claimed that homosexuality is the worst sin in the Bible. TRS just made that up. I said according to the Bible and traditional Christian teaching, it’s worse than just about any other sin, which is a far different thing. And I stand by that.
And I didn’t redefine homophobia. Anyone can search current news stories and opinion pieces from evangelicals other liberals and see that the definitions I used are used all the time by many, many people. That’s one of the beauties of PC words like homophobia; they can mean whatever people want them to mean; and the definition is always being broadened to include more and more acts, words, and beliefs. And I hardly think it’s being intellectually honest to talk about “the more traditional” meaning of homophobia, when the word’s a neologism that’s only been in usage for a couple decades.
Also, TRS, there’s another post on here about Christians concerned about a new law in England that will make homophobia a punishable offense. They’re saying that it will criminalize the act of expressing in speech or writing the traditional Christian view of homosexuality:
http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/15/christians-say-uk-gay-bashing-law-tromps-religious-freedom/
I suppose that they’re worried about nothing, and are just using “overblown hyperbole” just like me? (By the way, is there a kind of hyperbole that isn’t overblown?) No, they know as well as I do that “homophobia” is a very fluid word whose meaning is always expanding to whatever the homosexual lobby thinks it can get way with.
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Oops. That URL is too long and has ruined the formatting of the page.
Can one of the editors delete it?
I’ll repost it with a short URL.
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Yeah, Night Train just makes this stuff up. It’s nothing but “overblown hyperbole.”
ttp://tinyurl.com/3cf6yc
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Night Train,
I don’t have a simple short answer to your post.
First of all, I am a secular person. I don’t believe in supernatural explanations. I don’t believe the Bible is “inerrant.” I don’t believe that Adam and Eve were the first persons on earth. I don’t believe that Jesus was born of a virgin or rose from the dead, or was the Son of God. Most people here believe these things are factually true, and mundane evidence supports these claims beyond a doubt.
Second, I have a sense of right and wrong. I don’t present myself as an especially virtuous person or a paragon or an example of anything. Although, I consider Eden a myth (and not a very attractive one at that), I consider the term “fallen” as afairly good description of humans and how they behave. I don’t believe the universe contains “absolute” moral laws. I think the development of ethics can be explained by evolution. Most Christians here seem to think without God and the Bible humans would have little ethics and less morality.
Many Christians seem to think that atheists are incapable of acting in an ethical way, and would be compelled by their fears and appetites and knowledge that death is the end of their lives to act in selfish and wicked and evil ways.
However imperfect and faulty, I do have a sense of right and wrong. I think murder is wrong and theft is wrong and torture is wrong, and so on. Probably not that much different than most people here.
To some extent, my ethics is based on empathy. If know what it is like to feel pain; this make reluctant to hurt another person.
I know that I have to use thought and sometimes override empathy. If a person is threatening my family or me, it seems necessary and appropriate to hurt that person, or kill them, in order to stop them.
In terms of sexual behavior, I recognize pragmatic reasons for guidelines and rules. Children (and even animals) should be protected from sexual exploitation.
Rape, whether or not it is a “sexual crime” or a “crime of violence” is not acceptable to me.
Careless sex leads to pregnancies. It is better if children grow up in a committed relationship so they can have care and protection and nourishing.
Careless sex leads to dangerous diseases. Careless sex leads to emotional damage and discord.
And so on. I think a faithful heterosexual relationship is probably the best course for most adult humans to follow. I have been married and faithful for 41 years (though I confess to having thought unfaithful thoughts).
I say all this because I find the religious condemnation of homosexuality unconvincing and unpersuasive. Homosexuality is strange and a bit disturbing. I am sure that I am a heterosexual male; I have never had any doubt about it.
For whatever odd reason, over my 63 years of life I have known quite a few homosexual people. Some are good people and some are bad people (by my standards), just like “real” people. Some were in what seemed like happy committed relationships; some lead sexually destructive and damaging sex lives.
My daughter lives with another woman. As far as I can tell they have a very happy, healthy relationship. My daughter’s partner has a three-year-old daughter by artificial insemination; the “sperm donor” is a friend they went to school with. He is involved in his daughter’s life; she knew him as a sort of uncle figure; she recently figured out that he is her father. How this will play out I don’t know.
When I first started communicating with wmb I talked about my daughter; some people came to the conclusion she is almost the only homosexual person I know; this is not true.
I read many statements and generalizations about homosexuality on worldmagblog that are not based on religious belief. I don’t consider most of these statements as an attempt at serious discussion because many of the people posting them always fall back on not caring about facts and logic because they “know” homosexuality is wrong because the Bible says so.
I don’t care about gay marriage; however, I think that gay people who conduct themselves in a sensible manner should be allowed the protections of civil union. I have known a few people in polyamorous relationships; I would allow them to have legal relationships as well. I would allow adults in non-sexual relationships (the maiden aunt or maiden uncle argument) to have such relationships.
Before I wrote a quick “wisecrack” to your fairly long message. I still think your “night” train should get out in the sun a little more often. But you wanted a longer answer. I’m not done yet.
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I used to be a public school teacher. One of the aspects of schools I found irritating and disgusting is how easy and tempting it is for children to tease, bully, and harass other children and how often they do it.
I think Lord of the Flies is a fine work of moral literature in that it portrays how easily such behavior can turn very ugly.
It is a complicated and difficult problem. As a teacher, I learned that it is very difficult to prevent and remedy.
Schools are very clumsy tools for educating children. I have a lot of sympathy for the Christian enthusiasm for home schooling. One of my brothers, a secular person like me, home schooled his two daughters.
If you try to bang a screw into a board with a hammer instead of using a screw driver, you may make a mess.
When I was a teacher I saw children bully and torment other children for a variety of reasons and excuses. One excuse was because the victim child looked or acted “queer.” There were many other reasons; race was a common excuse. Sometimes the victim kid was just a dork. Sometimes he or she probably was mentally ill, or immature, or smelled bad, or was just plain irritating.
The examples you point out of “overreaction” by schools and courts are examples of using clumsy tools and banging a screw into a board. I don’t disagree with your pointing out these overreactions; however, it doesn’t mean that the problems that stimulated the overreactions are not real problems.
I consider Roger Williams to be my favorite Christian. He was a big proponent of free speech. I am also. I am very reluctant to support “hate crimes” laws or laws banning “hate speech.”
However, I doubt there is much else where we would find much agreement. I’m an irritating person. I periodically irritate qwerty the atheist.
My wife yells at me about something every other day. My two bosses are both constantly irritated with me. My three-year-old granddaughter periodically yells at me, “Grandpa, don’t touch slugs!” (I think she’s a little too prissy, so I periodically touch a slug in front of her to toughen her up. For that matter, even though she has two mommies, she will probably turn out to be a flaming heterosexual Christian just to stick a thumb in her family’s eye.)
Welcome to the club of people persecuted by Random.
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If posting long urls is what it takes to reformat this blog to such a wonderfully readable width, consider this notice that I plan to do so constantly in the future.
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according to the Bible and traditional Christian teaching, it’s worse than just about any other sin
******Talk about a technicality. My argument still stands. Homosexuality is NOT “worse than just about any other sin” in the Bible. There are worse sins, and there are many, many similar levels of sin, and I basically quoted those to you. See Galatians.
As for homophobia, again, Patrick Henry is defining it in its *traditional* and more accepted form, not as the activists are redefining it. I don’t quibble with the fact that there are homosexual activists out there trying to redefine it to mean more than it has in the past. But, I do say that P.H. was defining it more traditionally. Now who is not reading well? (see long rant from Night Train about the redefining of homophobia that has nothing to do with what I was saying.)
You know, Night Train, you’re simply being rude. My arguments are just fine based on what you wrote. If you feel so misunderstood and badly read, maybe it has something to do with poor communication skills on your part? At any rate, you won’t scare me off like you did VS. I will keep commenting on your posts, and you can keep “showing me” how supposedly wrong I am. ;-p
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TRS (#7): Homosexuality is not the worst sin the Bible. Not loving God, followed by not loving your neighbor are according to Christ.
Getting along with neighbors is just common sense. It’s impossible to have a pleasant life if a person can’t get along with people who live in the same neighborhood.
A person’s sexual preferences are not anyone else’s business.
Not loving God?
That’s a sin? I don’t get it. How can anybody love or not love a delusion?
Why does your invisible friend have this great need to be liked by everyone? What’s wrong with him?
Also, who would want to love a lunatic?
My questions might sound dumb to you, but they are not as dumb as the idea there’s an invisible magic man in the sky who cares who likes him.
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******Talk about a technicality. My argument still stands. Homosexuality is NOT “worse than just about any other sin” in the Bible. There are worse sins, and there are many, many similar levels of sin, and I basically quoted those to you. See Galatians.
There’s no mere technicality. You said that I wrote that homosexuality was the worst sin in the Bible, when I said no such thing. I said it was worse that just about any other, and any honest reading of the Bible leads to that conclusion.
Not loving God, followed by not loving your neighbor are according to Christ.
Actually, when Jesus said those were the two greatest commandments, he was saying that the commandments are subsumed in these two. In other words, he was summarizing the first table of the 10 commandments (love God) and the 2nd table (love your neighbor. All sins are a violation of one of th 10 commandments. Or they wouldn’t be sins. And is violating your neighbor’s rectum loving your neighbor in the sense that Jesus meant love? Hardly.
In addition, leading a child astray, hypocrisy in a leader of any type, hypocrisy in anyone, seem to rank right up there,
How so? Jesus said that it would be very bad for anyone who led a child astray, but he certainly didn’t say that it was worse than homosexuality. And if these sins are worse than homosexuality, then please show me in the law that Jesus gave Moses where he demanded that people who do these things be executed. And then show me where he rained down fire and brimstone on two entire cities for these things.
and certainly sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
Christians no longer consider homosexuality to be sexual immorality or impurity? I learn something new every day. And if you mean heterosexual immorality, you’re wrong. Because not all heterosexual immorality was all that bad in Jesus sight. When Jesus gave Moses the law, he said if a man rapes a woman, there were two different penalties, depending on the circumstances. If the woman was married, the rapist was to be executed. If the woman was single, the rapist had to pay her father a set amount of money.
idolatry and witchcraft;
Well, you’ve finally gotten near the ball park. In the Bible, these sins were considered as bad as homosexuality, but not worse. Jesus told Moses to execute witches, and Jesus himself regularly ordered idolaters executed.
hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.
Now you’re nowhere near the ball park. There’s nothing in Galatians or the rest of the Bible that says or even hints that these sins are worse than sodomy. Paul is simply cataloging a bunch of “fleshly” sins, and he calls them the works of the flesh. Show me where he said these things are worse than homosexuality (especially since it would be included in the sexual immorality part) Show me where Jesus told Moses to execute drunks, the ambitious, the jealous, the angry, those who cause dissensions, and the like. Show me where Jesus nuked two entire cities for any of these things.
There weren’t that many sins that Jesus told Moses to execute people for. Murder, raping a married woman, witchcraft, adultery, working on the Sabbath…these all were capital crimes in the law that Jesus gave Moses, which is why I never claimed that sodomy is worse than any other sin according to the Bible. It’s certainly no worse than raping a married woman, murder, or working on the Sabbath. If Jesus told Moses to execute people for one sin, and make them pay money for another sin, it’s pretty clear that the first sin is a lot worse than the second in Jesus sight. And the fact remains that Jesus nuked two entire cities, not for anything on your list of sins, but for homosexuality.
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