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	<title>Comments on: Parents walk in kidnap/forced abortion plea deal</title>
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	<description>A forum for discussion of news that arises at the intersection of Christianity and culture.</description>
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		<title>By: michelle</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/16/parents-walk-in-kidnapforced-abortion-plea-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-226674</link>
		<dc:creator>michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:22:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think most abortion clinics have ultrasound machines; they often use them to determine fetal age since that makes a difference what form of abortion they perform(and how much they charge). 

I recently spoke with a woman, however, who called our PCC because Planned Parenthood wouldn&#039;t let her see the ultrasound, even though she paid for it, and kept trying to make an appointment for her to have a &quot;procedure,&quot; even though she stated she didn&#039;t want to abort.

To be fair, last year that same PP also let a girl off the table who screamed, &quot;I can&#039;t go through with this.&quot; They made her another appointment for a week later and when the same thing happened, they let her go again.  She had learned her lesson the second time, and came to our PCC--where she is getting support as she carries her child to term.

Studies have shown many women abort because someone important in their life is pressuring them--usually a parent or the baby&#039;s father. Studies also have shown that just a little support is often enough to &quot;tip the scales&quot; for a woman to carry her child to term.  I don&#039;t believe most women want to abort--I think most understand what they are doing--but often they don&#039;t feel they have any other choice.

Which, in my opinion, is why crisis pregnancy centers are so important.  We listen, explain their options and let them go, telling them no matter what they chose to do, they can always come back. We&#039;d prefer they not terminate their pregnancies, but if they do, they are still welcome to return and we will weep with them. And help them find their way back to forgiveness and a full life.

In the original story, the parents weren&#039;t honoring their daughter&#039;s choices in life. She was an adult, however, and their actions were plain wrong. Unfortunately, I&#039;ve heard too many stories of young women screaming at abortion clinics that they don&#039;t want to abort, only to have stone-faced relatives or boyfriends insist they must. Who&#039;s chosing then?  :-(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think most abortion clinics have ultrasound machines; they often use them to determine fetal age since that makes a difference what form of abortion they perform(and how much they charge). </p>
<p>I recently spoke with a woman, however, who called our PCC because Planned Parenthood wouldn&#8217;t let her see the ultrasound, even though she paid for it, and kept trying to make an appointment for her to have a &#8220;procedure,&#8221; even though she stated she didn&#8217;t want to abort.</p>
<p>To be fair, last year that same PP also let a girl off the table who screamed, &#8220;I can&#8217;t go through with this.&#8221; They made her another appointment for a week later and when the same thing happened, they let her go again.  She had learned her lesson the second time, and came to our PCC&#8211;where she is getting support as she carries her child to term.</p>
<p>Studies have shown many women abort because someone important in their life is pressuring them&#8211;usually a parent or the baby&#8217;s father. Studies also have shown that just a little support is often enough to &#8220;tip the scales&#8221; for a woman to carry her child to term.  I don&#8217;t believe most women want to abort&#8211;I think most understand what they are doing&#8211;but often they don&#8217;t feel they have any other choice.</p>
<p>Which, in my opinion, is why crisis pregnancy centers are so important.  We listen, explain their options and let them go, telling them no matter what they chose to do, they can always come back. We&#8217;d prefer they not terminate their pregnancies, but if they do, they are still welcome to return and we will weep with them. And help them find their way back to forgiveness and a full life.</p>
<p>In the original story, the parents weren&#8217;t honoring their daughter&#8217;s choices in life. She was an adult, however, and their actions were plain wrong. Unfortunately, I&#8217;ve heard too many stories of young women screaming at abortion clinics that they don&#8217;t want to abort, only to have stone-faced relatives or boyfriends insist they must. Who&#8217;s chosing then?  <img src='http://online.worldmag.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' />
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/16/parents-walk-in-kidnapforced-abortion-plea-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-226639</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/16/parents-walk-in-kidnapforced-abortion-plea-deal/#comment-226639</guid>
		<description>Because democratized information means you can&#039;t force people to be informed anymore than you can cordon off knowledge.  

If ultrasounds are so great, won&#039;t your fabulous free market create a brand of abortion clinics that have ultrasounds? Would that solve you&#039;re gripe? Cause I don&#039;t think it would.  I don&#039;t think the &quot;informed consent&quot; crowd has any interest in informing anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because democratized information means you can&#8217;t force people to be informed anymore than you can cordon off knowledge.  </p>
<p>If ultrasounds are so great, won&#8217;t your fabulous free market create a brand of abortion clinics that have ultrasounds? Would that solve you&#8217;re gripe? Cause I don&#8217;t think it would.  I don&#8217;t think the &#8220;informed consent&#8221; crowd has any interest in informing anyone.
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		<title>By: Kyle A</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/16/parents-walk-in-kidnapforced-abortion-plea-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-226552</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/16/parents-walk-in-kidnapforced-abortion-plea-deal/#comment-226552</guid>
		<description>Luke and Stephen, explain why pro-choice people have tended not to back informed consent laws?  Why are they ususally against sonograms so that girls can see what they are doing away with and with a description of the &quot;procedure&quot; and information about the after-effects?  Why have they tended not to want Planned Parenthood to provide all options rather than just one?

Luke, you can&#039;t legislate away that pressure, but how about more education on adoption and keeping a baby?  What about a requirement that abortion providers give girls information and time to reflect on their decision?  (As we do when buying guns!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Luke and Stephen, explain why pro-choice people have tended not to back informed consent laws?  Why are they ususally against sonograms so that girls can see what they are doing away with and with a description of the &#8220;procedure&#8221; and information about the after-effects?  Why have they tended not to want Planned Parenthood to provide all options rather than just one?</p>
<p>Luke, you can&#8217;t legislate away that pressure, but how about more education on adoption and keeping a baby?  What about a requirement that abortion providers give girls information and time to reflect on their decision?  (As we do when buying guns!)
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/16/parents-walk-in-kidnapforced-abortion-plea-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-226522</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sorry, more evidence for reinstating a preview, 

Obvious you &lt;b&gt;CAN&#039;T&lt;/b&gt; legislate away social pressure or the influence of someones friends or family!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, more evidence for reinstating a preview, </p>
<p>Obvious you <b>CAN&#8217;T</b> legislate away social pressure or the influence of someones friends or family!
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/16/parents-walk-in-kidnapforced-abortion-plea-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-226519</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/10/16/parents-walk-in-kidnapforced-abortion-plea-deal/#comment-226519</guid>
		<description>Yes, Kyle, I will. 

You can legislate away social pressure or the influence of someones friends or family.  

If your goal is true emancipation for women in decision making that over comes social forces and family expectations, well...start backing title 9, set up a women&#039;s resource center, promote a woman at work, stay home with your kids instead of her, march to maintain Roe, and vote for Hillary!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Kyle, I will. </p>
<p>You can legislate away social pressure or the influence of someones friends or family.  </p>
<p>If your goal is true emancipation for women in decision making that over comes social forces and family expectations, well&#8230;start backing title 9, set up a women&#8217;s resource center, promote a woman at work, stay home with your kids instead of her, march to maintain Roe, and vote for Hillary!
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/16/parents-walk-in-kidnapforced-abortion-plea-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-226461</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Kyle, since the reason pro-choicers are in fact pro-choice is due to the high value they place on personal autonomy, I doubt any of them would object to a free and totally informed choice, so long as all the information was presented in an objective manner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kyle, since the reason pro-choicers are in fact pro-choice is due to the high value they place on personal autonomy, I doubt any of them would object to a free and totally informed choice, so long as all the information was presented in an objective manner.
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		<title>By: Kyle A</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/16/parents-walk-in-kidnapforced-abortion-plea-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-226452</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Would a pro-choicer care to comment on how a young woman is often pressured by others to get an abortion that deep-down she doesn&#039;t want?  Wouldn&#039;t a better &quot;choice&quot; be a free and totally informed choice, in which she is given other options than just abortion?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would a pro-choicer care to comment on how a young woman is often pressured by others to get an abortion that deep-down she doesn&#8217;t want?  Wouldn&#8217;t a better &#8220;choice&#8221; be a free and totally informed choice, in which she is given other options than just abortion?
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/16/parents-walk-in-kidnapforced-abortion-plea-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-226448</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well they obviously didn&#039;t tie her up very well! 

ok...enough black humor. Lynn&#039;s right. Sick story; they are nut jobs.  Won&#039;t comment on the plea deal though, not sure if they deserve 52 months (average served for kidnapping) for being dumb. It&#039;s not like they could have actually gone into a clinic with a tied up woman and had her baby aborted...

at least not without driving father than New York.

Last one, I swear!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well they obviously didn&#8217;t tie her up very well! </p>
<p>ok&#8230;enough black humor. Lynn&#8217;s right. Sick story; they are nut jobs.  Won&#8217;t comment on the plea deal though, not sure if they deserve 52 months (average served for kidnapping) for being dumb. It&#8217;s not like they could have actually gone into a clinic with a tied up woman and had her baby aborted&#8230;</p>
<p>at least not without driving father than New York.</p>
<p>Last one, I swear!
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		<title>By: llama</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/16/parents-walk-in-kidnapforced-abortion-plea-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-226443</link>
		<dc:creator>llama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>So it was the fear, pride and ego based race card being plaid by the parents in the end and the legal system agreed with their behavior.  I am torn as to who is more insane, the parents or the legal system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So it was the fear, pride and ego based race card being plaid by the parents in the end and the legal system agreed with their behavior.  I am torn as to who is more insane, the parents or the legal system.
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		<title>By: Kyle A</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2007/10/16/parents-walk-in-kidnapforced-abortion-plea-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-226436</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>KBells, I presume that many abortions are not strictly by &quot;choice.&quot;

A friend of mine in college felt pressured into an abortion by her parents.  I didn&#039;t know about it until the day she was going to the bus station to go and get the procedure.  She cried her eyes out at the prospect but couldn&#039;t see anyway out of it, as she still felt that she needed her parents&#039; financial support.  

This is why I think that many women who obtain abortions are victims themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KBells, I presume that many abortions are not strictly by &#8220;choice.&#8221;</p>
<p>A friend of mine in college felt pressured into an abortion by her parents.  I didn&#8217;t know about it until the day she was going to the bus station to go and get the procedure.  She cried her eyes out at the prospect but couldn&#8217;t see anyway out of it, as she still felt that she needed her parents&#8217; financial support.  </p>
<p>This is why I think that many women who obtain abortions are victims themselves.
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