you mean my quote was a rhetorical questions??

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No, they don’t. Review Post #110. Instead of understanding what these people are going to do next based on what they have done in the past, the Republicans are trying to predict behavior because “that’s what they, personally, would do”. They are being overly optimistic. Me, I have always been an optimistic person so I can relate to that. The problem is that you get a greater share of disappointment.

Considering the majority of Iraqis want us gone, many think we are the cause of the violence and say it’s ok to kill Americans; the only finger they are giving us isn’t purple.

NOTE: A country with a national religion whose laws are aligned with their religious text is called a “theocracy”. It rhymes with democracy but that’s as close as it gets.

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ah I suggest the situation, paradoxically (and quite out of my usual character) is simpler than seems to be presented.

The U.S. has committed itself to stamping out terror.

The U.S. has involved itself in Iraq in an attempt to stamp out terror.

The U.S. appears to have de facto abandoned its professed policy of a strong centralized Iraq and has adopted a local ground up policy based on the Al Anbar model.

This does effectively result in mutiple semi-autonomous states, among whom is Kurdistan.

Now Kurdistan has long had a history of asserting the right to a “greater Kurdistan” encompassing areas in Syria, Iraq, Turkey, and Iran. The PKK party is one of the main groups pushing for “Greater Kurdistan”.

To pursue their goals, the PKK is arguably executing terrorist activities against Turkey, who is a strong ally of the U.S. in the war against terror.

And since the U.S. has committed itself to stamping out terror, it would seem that U.S. forces should be sent in to suppresss the PKK (we will pursue terrorists whereever they are; Turkey is an important ally etc.).

Which would of course put us at odds with the semi-autonomous government of Kurdistan.

Which would weaken what WMB has noted is the most successfully secured areas in Iraq.

Weakening our overall Iraq effort and putting our bottoms up security model at risk.

Putting our effort in Iraq at risk.

Which puts our efforts in one of the main areas argued to be a key front in the war against terror at risk.

Well done!! I can’t think of how we could tangle ourselves any deeper in a mesh leading to the U.S. defeating itself.

Doesn’t anyone in a policy position think through the implicatons of our statements and actions?

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I think all of those people with purple thumbs in Iraq would tell you they were happy to have a say in their future, and it wasn’t considered an imposition in the least.
They had a higher voter turn out than probably any election we’ve ever had here.

“They have already put Islam in their constitution as the “National Religion”. Does that sound like democracy?”

Yes…unfortunately. We don’t like it, but as it stands today, that is what the Iraqis want. This can be worked out politically. In the meantime, Christian organizations should do what they can to help Chaldee Christians who want to leave find a way out. (Most do not want to leave, but want to see this effort work, and their country become an example of Islamic tolerance in the ME)
And a three state solution might help in this effort

“Keep each other in check? Like with guns? Bombs? Good plan? To me, it sounds idiotic. What will probably happen is that they will become three separate states constantly at war?”

That is why we would have preferred a centralized govt.
But there might have to be a three state solution here, with multi-national oversight.
Preferably not the UN. And yes, there will still be the occasional bomb, and gunfire. Just like there still is occasionally in the Baltic
But
If it was good enough for Bosnia…?

But I still say the best way is to let Iran goad the Sunnis in to helping assist.
(and they already are..they are even helping Israel keep up with Iran’s meedling in Syria/Lebanon)

And we don’t want to tell the world what to do..
We’re just tired of saying “Please stop trying to kill us.”
If these govts. can’t at least try to keep their citizens from preparing for war with the planet, then they should be dealt with harshly, if they don’t respond to the chances given them.

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Perhaps they don’t have to conflict, but they do conflict constantly. Especially evolution is denied by millions, and it’s no coincidence every single one of those millions of evolution-deniers is religious, usually either Muslim terrorists or Christian fundies. There are even Christians who deny simple facts like the age of the earth. There are some Christians right here on this blog who claim the entire universe did not exist until 2,000 years after humans started breeding cows.

It’s pointless to deny it. Science and religion will never get along. The God of the gaps is constantly being chased out of its gaps by new scientific discoveries. The God believers watch this and they don’t like the idea of their God becoming more and more worthless every year. So they attack science constantly. In America, “Lying for Jesus” has become a major industry. Some businesses like the Discovery Institute exist only to spread lies about science. Even presidential candidates participate in the Chrisitian war on science. Huckabee is just one of three who has publicly attacked the proven scientific fact of evolution.

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Last week during a press conference, Bush said, “They don’t want democracy. It’s not part of their culture. A country can’t just invade another country and tell them how to live. One country can’t impose a form of government on a country that doesn’t want it.” Bush was talking about the Palestinians but the irony couldn’t be ignored. The entire time he holding his hands to either side, palms up, shoulders raised around his ears, head thrust forward, sarcastic smile with eyebrows raised (you could almost hear the, “What is it you meatheads don’t get?”)

#106: You have to define democracy.

I don’t have to define democracy. They have already put Islam in their constitution as the “National Religion”. Does that sound like democracy? Ask the hundreds of thousands of Christians that have been driven out.

#106: three separate provinces that will keep each other in check

Keep each other in check? Like with guns? Bombs? Good plan? To me, it sounds idiotic. What will probably happen is that they will become three separate states constantly at war?

#106: But they can sure share technology, and weaponry that will be used against a common enemy.

Yea us, now. Not before. We unite those people. They are all Muslims. Not us. I just don’t understand why that is so hard to understand. If China brought troops, however benign, to Mexico; do you think we would stand for it? Mexico is right in our back yard. Like Iraq to Iran.

The Bush strategy is to arm a bunch of thugs. It’s estimated that there is only 3 to 5 thousand al Queda in Iraq. But isn’t there over a hundred and fifty thousand American soldiers? Who are we fighting?

Now Turkey and the Kurds are getting ready to go to war. We can’t stop them. Turkey is a sovereign country and an ally. We can’t tell them what to do. The Kurds have been our one “kind of a success story”.

No wonder this generation of Republicans is such a disaster. They somehow think they can tell the world what to do and then are shocked at ungrateful people who don’t like being told what to do. We will have to agree to disagree. Nothing the conservatives on this site have said has come true. It’s been the exact opposite over and over again. And it’s always the democrat’s fault. Even when the Republicans had both houses AND the presidency, it’s still the fault of the democrats. Stop already. You can’t win with prayer.

In the meantime, we are getting home movies from Bin Laden. For just that one reason, Bush lets Bin Laden go, I believe Bush committed treason. Considering how much the conservatives insist they are the ones protecting this country, that one fact should have turned them against Bush. Instead, they rationalize it with incredibly bizarre justification. Don’t get it.

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The issue with the Kurds was just waiting to happen as the Turks were more and more annoyed and threatening pre-Armenia resolution. We are lucky that this hadn’t yet happened.

On the topic: I have to agree with Ed, especially if Huckabee is a young earther — it simply defies common sense to believe that. Unless one wants to argue that God created things to fool us, but the last time I looked, scripture said Lucifer, not God was the deceiver.

The republicans truly are unimpressive on foreign policy with each wedding himself to the Bush policies, which I think reasonable people can see are not working.

DR

I would agree that science is limited. But some things seem pretty well proven –enough to debunk young earth believers pretty thoroughly. And I agree that science can’t prove what caused life to begin. There are theories. Just as people of faith have belief. I don’t think the two have to conflict and certainly some atheists and theists do better at melding and understanding the two than others.

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I think that is your view of their view.

“They don’t want democracy”
You have to define democracy.
Do they want the unified centralized govt. that we seem to be hoping for?..No, It looks like that probably isn’t going to work.
Would a three state solution work?..Maybe, It might be worth a shot.
That would still result in a democracy. even moreso, because you have three separate provinces that will keep each other in check, and cut down on abuse of power.
Sounds like a decent plan.

“Let me repeat that because it is pure “common sense”. A secular dictator and a religious dictator are not going to “share” power, not ever.”

Of course they aren’t going to share “power”. But they can sure share technology, and weaponry that will be used against a common enemy.

“The US attacking Iran would be the worst possible thing we could do. The young Sunni’s in Arabia are against the Government in that country and are barely held in check by the Royal Family. They would gladly join the Jihad in a heartbeat. The same could be said of the young throughout the Muslim world.”

I didn’t suggest that we attack Iran. In fact I said that we shouldn’t have to, because the problem will take care of itself. If you think the Sunni nations that line the coast are going to let Persian shiites have control over southern Iraq, you couldn’t possibly be more wrong. You should read up on the differences in the beliefs of the Sunni and Shia. This Ahmadinajihad has these Sunni leaders thinking they may have to take this guy out themselves.

” We can only hope that Bush doesn’t create anymore disasters until he leaves office.”

I agree there. Bush needs to let this new, working strategy keep going, and concentrating his efforts on communicating to the public how well the surge is going, and how Al Queda is reeling and almost defeated in Iraq. The MSM sure have dropped coverage on Iraq in the past month.
If Pelosi’s effort are successful, they can go back to blood and guts in a week or two.

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Any religion that claims to worship a god who is the ultimate judge of good and evil, (and whatever implications that has for one’s afterlife.) can not use proper logic, and take a life. Whether they believe them to be infidels or not, the taking of an innocent life is,in effect, usurping the god they worship’s role in directing, or influencing that murdered entity’s fate.

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