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Whirled Views 11.19
Morning!
Today’s movie quote: “Some people just don’t understand boundaries.”
Topic: Watercooler Chatter, WorldMagBlog
Keywords: Watercooler Chatter
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back to top51 Comments to “Whirled Views 11.19”
Shrek Three, believe it or not. I always love it when these gems of wisdom pop out of the mouths of cartoon characters in “kids” movies.
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Good morning everyone!
Here are the results of last weekend’s “College Football Saturday” Contest:
Scott Robinson wins!
He got all 5 games correct. He was the only one who guessed correctly on the Oklahoma/Texas Tech game. Congratulations Scott! Here is your hot-off-the-campfire, warm, gooey *digital* S’more Enjoy!
Due to the holidays, this coming weekend’s contest will be on Wednesday, with a deadline for your entries of Friday @ 3:30 p.m. CT.
If you’ve never played, join us. It’s fun and easy. All you have to do is guess the winners of 5 college football games, not the scores. Look for it this Wednesday.
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Has anyone read Khaled Hosseini’s book, “A Thousand Splendid Suns”?
I just finished it this morning. Never did read his first novel “The Kite Runner.”
(How are you feeling this morning Anlir?)
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I’ve been looking for a way to undertake a study of theology. I’ve been reading the Bible for 30 or so years, but never formally studied it or theology. I know that Christians differ on some things, and have some historical understanding of how that happened, but no formal understanding of theologies.
For the last year or so, I have been using a textbook (big fat one) by Wayne Grudem called “Systematic Theology” and an ESV Bible to try to learn the basics of Reformed theology. I saw a little paperback advertised in this week’s World from Ligonier Ministries on five Calvinist beliefs that give people trouble and ordered one. I’m wondering if anyone on here who is a little less ignorant than I am would be interested in an email discussion of some of this stuff?
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On my way to work this morning I witnessed a pedestrian hit by the car in front of me. Initial reports are that she is going to be OK and it was not the driver’s fault because the girl ran out from between parked cars and she had no time or room to stop. After my part of the police business was done, I stayed with the driver because she didn’t have anyone to comfort her and she was understandably upset. She is from Nigeria and, as it turns out, a fellow Christian. Anyhow, a lot of our conversation about prayer last week crossed my mind. There was an uncanny sequence of events that led me to be where I was, which was not my normal route to work. I marvel at how and why God puts us in the lives of others and thank Him for his precious hand in it all. For those of you (us) who pray, her name is Grace.
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VS- I read ‘Kite Runner’ and found it so difficult I have avoided ‘Thousand Splendid Suns’. It was an intense story and well written, but just too hard for me. I have no desire to see the movie and add visual images to the tale. What’s your take on ‘Suns’?
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And the digital cappuccino goes to Janie!
VS: I’ve read The Kite Runner, but not his second book, although I hope to soon. I thought The Kite Runner was excellent.
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Mommy–
Obviously, it was providential that you were there. My heart always goes out to someone who has “innocently” accidently hurt someone. I’m so glad you were there to offer comfort, and I am praying for Grace.
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VS,
I spent the weekend in bed watching football trying to get well. Saturday I was supposed to go to a bachelor party for a buddy, but I couldn’t make it. Today I feel better, so hopefully I’m on the mend for real this time. Next Monday I have my CT scan and MRI of my vocal cords. Hopefully everything will come back ok. If so, I get the gel shot about a week after that, and then will be talking soon thereafter.
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Janie, I saw the same book and thought it looked pretty interesting. I would love to be in a discussion group. Sign me up. I’ll order the book.
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Janie,
I love studying and discussing theology. I am not familiar with either of the books you mentioned but I’d be more than happy to participate in any email discussion on the topic.
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The big picture in Iraq:
The surge is indeed working. Violence levels are remaining low.
People who fled are cominbg back to Baghdad.
Islamofascist jihadists are increasingly UNwelcome in Iraq by the Iraqi people — both Sunni and Shiites alike.
The Iraqi forces are increasingly taking charge of security.
Casualities continue to diminish.
The Isamofascist mission of using jihad to destabilize the Middle East and drive us out early enough to stop our mission. The jihadist’s mission to create cahos and exploit it for radicalizing the region is a mission that appears to be failing.
What we have done in Iraq may have prevented a much wider and horrific conflict across the Middle East. If we had given up and left (as Democrats have been demanding), bloodshed may well be rising now instead of diminishing. George Bush’s firm stand in Iraq has forestalled a much wider conflic, in my view (though dangers still remain).
Iran (frustrated by our progress in Iraq) is becoming more dangerous in and of itself, rather than merely as trouble-makers in Iraq.
The war on Islamofascism continues and it won’t be easy, but few will give credit where credit is due for the progress so far.
What could have been is far worse than what has been and now is.
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#4: Janie, I am a Reformed (Presbyterian) pastor with an M.Div. I am also planning to begin work on an M.Th. degree in the near future (possibly looking ahead to a doctoral degree). I would be glad to enter into an email discussion with you on theology. You can email me at: tjparp AT gmail DOT com (trying to avoid spam).
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BTW, Janie, Grudem’s Systematic Theology is generally very good, though there are better things out there. For instance, because of his background, Grudem doesn’t spend much energy on the sacraments (if I remember correctly), and of course I would differ with him in such areas as ecclesiology (the study of the church) and his view on spiritual gifts. Otherwise I believe he is pretty solid.
From a presbyterian perspective, I like Robert Reymond’s A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith, which basically follows along with the Westminster Confession of Faith as a general guideline/outline. Like Grudem, it is a single volume, as is Louis Berkhof’s Systematic Theology (now a winter special at CBD.com for only $13!). For a good overview of theology, showing different perspectives and historical developments and such, I would recommend Alistair McGrath’s Christian Theology: An Introduction, which we used in our intro to theology class in seminary (we used Calvin’s Institutes in Systematic Theology class, but that’s a rather large undertaking!).
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VS,
I just read Kite Runner. (I rarely buy fiction until I have read it and know I’ll reread it, so I was on a waiting list for a long time. I got the book when I had kids, and no time to read it, so I had to wait again!) I found it haunting, informative, and probably worth rereading. I’m now on the list for A Thousand Splendid Suns. I haven’t heard anyone say which one is better.
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Mommy,
I killed a dog on my way to work several years ago, same issue. It ran out of nowhere, and I slammed on the brakes but it was too late. It was only a foot or two in front of my bumper when I first saw it. Fortunately it seemed to be a stray (based on the word of a teenager on a nearby porch), but after I’d determined the dog was really dead, I shook in my realization it could as easily have been a child.
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I thought this was pretty funny. It was sent to me by my sister-in-law, who got it from an old friend she knew at Stanford when they were both getting PhDs. (It’s old–I hope its unPC-ness doesn’t offend anyone. I’m sharing it in good faith.)
THE HISTORY OF WIRELESS
Recently the New Orleans Times Picayune newspaper reported that a Cajun amateur archaeologist, having dug to a depth of 10 meters, found traces of copper wire dating back 100 years, and came to the conclusion that their ancestors already had a telephone network more than 100 years ago.
Not to be outdone by the Cajuns, in the weeks that followed Texas scientists dug to a depth of 20 meters. Shortly after, headlines in the Dallas Morning News read: “Texas archaeologists have found traces of 200-year old copper wire, and have concluded that their ancestors already had an advanced high-tech communications network 100 years earlier than the Cajuns.”
One week later, the Daily Oklahoman reported: “After digging as deep as 30 meters in wheat fields near Watonga, Bubba Williams, a self-taught archaeologist, reported that he found absolutely nothing. Bubba has therefore concluded that 300 years ago, Oklahomans were already using wireless.”
Author Unknown
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Janie, I’m Baptist. I probably won’t be much help with “Reformed Theology”, but I’ve had some training. I enjoy discussing theology and will be willing to help where I can.
We Baptists observe most of the ordanances, but our understanding is that a “sacrament” imparts grace of itself. This we (I) reject.
I am a premillenialist, mid-trib rapture.
I have a difficult time with election, but see that the NT is full of it.
Anyhow, If I can be of help: cwshull@bellsouth.net
(I’m not afraid of spam, I have a blocker for real spam and a fast delete button for other unwanted stuff.)
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Any day know the entire nation of Iraq is going to break out into one large chorus singing “Kum-by-ya” and placing flowers in the barrels of American soldier’s guns.
It’s all over now, except the benediction saying “Thank you Jesus for delivering Iraq into the hands of freedom and democracy”. Our armed forces will be home in time for Christmas.
Not!
The country is basically partitioned now, with Kurds, Sunni, and Shia each in their various enclaves. Outside the “green zone” the war lords and various factions maintain control.
The various factions in Iraq are lying low and waiting for us to leave. If it takes 10 years, 50 years, a hundred years – they’ll wait us out.
The Iraqi people despise Bush’s occupation of their country and they will never give up fighting until we leave.
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Re: My #18. If anyone here should e-mail me, mention World somewhere, (or some other indicator). I was serious about the quick delete button. I have received solicitations from women whose services I didn’t want. Also, some of those people in Africa (or wherever) who want to transfer $50,000,000,000 dollars, (or 75,000 euros) to America, use anglicized names.
I almost deleted, without reading, a couple of previous e-mails and would have regretted it.
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(accidents) Friday I witnessed a fatal accident (SUV hit a car that ran a stop sign). It kind of ruined an otherwise nice weekend.
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Wow. Bummer.
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Chas,
I had to ask hubby who Jacqueline Bissett is/was. Nope, not a Charley’s Angel, just an ordinary person. Disillusionment is not pretty.
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“Come on in, officers, and search my kid’s room for a gun …”
The schoolbus drove off the road this morning on the way down the hill to pick up the kids. The driver could not see the road. Only two on, a child and the driver and noone injured. The snowplow came and pulled it out. Hubby drove the kids to school. They will have to make the half mile hike to the mailbox every morning I suspect, it will do us all good (I will have to go with them as they do need adult supervision all of the time).
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Did anyone else see the “Open letter to the Muslim Community” in yesterday’s (Sunday) New York Times? It was in response to the letter that moderate Muslims printed calling for dialog between Christianity and Islam.
The letter was signed by, I’m guessing, a “Who’s Who” of Christiandom. Most of the names I don’t know, but I did recognize Richard Czik (NAE), Jim Wallis, Robert Schuller, Sr., Rick Warren, and John Stott.
I thought it was a fine letter.
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Chas, # 18: We Baptists observe most of the ordanances, but our understanding is that a “sacrament” imparts grace of itself. This we (I) reject.
Understand that we Presbyterians (and Reformed Protestants in general) do not believe that a sacrament (by which we mean baptism and the Lord’s Supper, what you would call ordinances) impart grace by themselves (or by the minister) either. Consider, for instance, the Westminster Confession of Faith (27:3): “The grace which is exhibited in or by the sacraments rightly used, is not conferred by any power in them; neither doth the efficacy of a sacrament depend upon the piety or intention of him that doth administer it: but upon the work of the Spirit, and the word of institution, which contains, together with a precept authorizing the use thereof, a promise of benefit to worthy receivers.”
My comments about Grudem’s treatment of the sacraments was not mean to impugn either him or Baptists. Rather, if memory serves, he only spends a few pages (better than a theology book I browsed a while back written by a prof from Dallas Seminary — he spent exactly one paragraph on the Lord’s Supper), maybe even only a page or two, on the Lord’s Supper (possibly more on baptism). My memory may be off on that (I don’t own that book), so I am willing to be corrected. My point is that if this was supposed to be an integral part in the life of the church (a “means of grace”, to use the language of the Reformers) — per Acts 2:42, for instance — then it should receive a broader treatment than that.
But, none of us are perfect in our theology, and the fact that I only point out minor quibbles here and there with Grudem’s book should be an indication that it overall is a very fine text indeed!
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Janie,
I too would be very happy to discuss reformed theology. Count me in, if you wish.
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VS,
Read and enjoyed Kite Runner (though enjoyed may not be the right term) and have purchased but not read the suns book. Hoping to get to it today.
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Okay. It looks like we have Pam W., Pauline, T.J., Chas, and Mrs.P interested. That’s great! Why don’t you all email me at “janie1232@gmail.com” and let me know what email address and name you want to use for this. When I get your emails I’ll send out a “group” email so we can decide how we want to proceed. (I have T. J. and Chas.)
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TJ, I stand corrected. I read the Westminster Confession of Faith many years ago. The problem I had was that I assumed that, by definition, “sacrament” meant that it conferred grace, as it does in the Catholic church. I could be mistaken about the Episcopalian concept of sacrament then.
I agree that too often we Baptists take the Lord’s Supper too lightly, assuming that “it’s only a memorial”. It is, indeed, a solem moment when we search ourselves and ask forgiveness for things that would separate us from God, and to remember the sacrifice that was made for us.
But I notice that many of other traditions seem to go about it mechanically, and asume, that they, by the mere action, have gained an additional grace by that action.
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I am not connecting Episcopalian and Presbyterian above. I knew what I was saying, but on reflection, considered that someone might misunderstand.
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Paula – If I had to use one word to describe “Suns”, it would be disturbing. It left me with angry feelings (towards men) that I’m not sure what to do with. But it also beautifully shows the strength and endurance of the human spirit.
Anlir – Maybe it’s the football delaying your recovery???
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Chas,
I’m no theologian, but I think the difference on the Sacraments are as follows:
Protestants in general – the Sacraments (baptism & communion) do not confer Grace (salvation). There are some variations, such as Church of Christ.
Presbyterians – infant baptism “covers” a child until they make an active decision for Christ. Communion does not confer Grace.
Catholics – the Sacraments do confer Grace. An infant is baptized into the family of God. The elements actually become the body and blood of Christ (Transubstantiation).
Episcopalians & Lutherans – Infant baptism confers Grace. Communion continues one in Grace, but is not Transubstantiation.
I welcome to be corrected.
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#24: That beats the heck out of praying to fight crime, and it’s about time! Thanks for posting that, Frank.
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Anlir, I believe you are correct in your explanations. I understand it the same way. My problem was the use of the word “sacrament”. I always thought that the “sacrament”, whatever it is, confers grace. I’m still learning. Actually, it’s good to communicate with others in a non-Baptist environment.
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But don’t get your hopes up, Frank. I think the police are wildly overestimating just how cooperative with law enforcement household authorities in high crime areas will be. (I don’t say “parents” because most of them are headed up by a single mother.) In inner cites there is a very high level of contempt for, and antagonism toward, law enforcement, especially the police. Not all denizens share this opinion, but the majority do, according to some reports. On top of that, you’ve got a lot of these homes with criminal activity going on besides guns, and they’ll be even more reluctant to allow the cops into their home for that reason. Further, the actuarial prospects for inner city residents seen to be cooperating with the police are not good. So, the more I think about it, the less optimistic I am that this will have much effect on crime. I hope I’m wrong, but I’m usually not.
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Paging Anthony Bradley!
20 years later, Tawana Brawley’s family wants her “case” reinvestigated.
http://tinyurl.com/2yoevt
Anthony, this could be your Main Chance.
You know what to do.
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Presbyterians – infant baptism “covers” a child until they make an active decision for Christ. Communion does not confer Grace.
Anlir, I’m not sure what you mean by “covers”, other than you (rightly) distinguish it from “coveys grace.” From the the Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter 28:
1) “Baptism is a sacrament of the new testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible church; but also, to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace, of his ingrafting into Christ, of regeneration, of remission of sins, and of his giving up unto God, through Jesus Christ, to walk in newness of life.Which sacrament is, by Christ’s own appointment, to be continued in his church until the end of the world.”
6) “The efficacy of baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered; yet, notwithstanding, by the right use of this ordinance, the grace promised is not only offered, but really exhibited, and conferred, by the Holy Ghost, to such (whether of age or infants) as that grace belongeth unto, according to the counsel of God’s own will, in his appointed time.”
Not wanting to presume, but if you are saying the “covering” implies that the infant is later expected to make a public profession of faith in Christ, then you would seem to have a fairly good understanding.
Chas, I would agree with you, but coming from the other POV. That is, it is good to converse with folks in a non-Presbyterian environment as well!
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Night Train,
Don’t be too sure they won’t be cooperative either. Remember, high crime rates affect residents more than they do the rest of us. I once lived in a neighborhood that could have been high crime (very close to other blocks with high murder rates), but wasn’t, largely because the men on the block cared. For instance, a next-door neighbor, a pastor, would go into the street and physically intervene in fights between teenagers! We had block parties, and at one of those, a resident argued for zoned parking (too complicated to explain, but you’d get a ticket if you didn’t have a permit to park on the street). The man said he really liked it that we had it, because it brought police down our street several times a day.
Again, the neighborhood could easily have been dangerous. One block over there were four murders during a ten-day period I was out of town! But willing residents who observed and cooperated with the police, combined with a block with many Christians, kept my block moderately safe. (I don’t know of any crime on my block in my seven years of living there.) Such an idea really can help, if residents give it a chance, and if everyone involved is wise.
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TJ,
Yep – you accurately described my understanding about “covering”. Not being a Presbyterian, I’m going off what I have read and heard. Religion would not be my area of expertise and I try not to say much in that area.
*****
Man, everyone is in such a bad mood around here today. Is it the pressure of the holidays?
Considering I have a cold, no voice, and a ton of work to do, I’m still in a good mood.
C’mon y’all – lighten up
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Anlir, I just wanted to make sure that you didn’t think Presbies believed that infant baptism “saved” or “washed away original sin” or something of that sort (we obviously don’t). A covenant relationship is being established, but that isn’t the same thing.
About that cold: have you gotten that checked out? That killer strain is out there (so my wife tells me). I’d hate to see you let something go that should be treated more aggressively.
BTW, I have been a bit short in temper today, but that is primarily because I had to deal with someone’s computer for most of the day. I haven’t taken it out on anyone, though (I hope). At any rate, I can’t blame it on the holiday!
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TJ,
Yeah, I saw that story on TV this weekend while lying in bed watching football games in between the haze of Nyquil. And I thought “Oh great! I’ve got the Killer Cold.”
I’m actually better today, though my head is still throbbing and my nose is still running. I made it through the night, so I figure I don’t have the Killer Cold. I’ve started coughing, which is the last stage before I get well. I’ll have a cough for a couple of weeks and then it will gradually disappear.
Poor Alabama – lost to Louisiana-Monroe. I bet the glitter is off Saban’s crown now. And that was one expensive crown! Bama is 6-5 and has Auburn left to play, which means they could end up 6-6. Well, he’s got more 2 years to get them back to the big show.
I cannot believe Tennessee escaped Vandy by only 1 point! At home, mind you. Well, it all comes down to the Kentucky/TN game. I’m still holding to my 8-4 prediction for the Vols, which means they will lose to Kentucky.
The Kansas/Missouri game will be huge. I’m happy for either to win, but kind of pulling for Kansas to go undefeated.
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Man, everyone is in such a bad mood around here today. Is it the pressure of the holidays?
What are you talking about?
comments where everyone’s in a bad mood, why don’t you?
You don’t, because you can’t, because there aren’t any.
You’re the same person who said the other day that churches should have to put signs out front saying if they’re opposed to or affirming of sodomy. You said it was necessary because otherwise it’s “treacherous” for gays to have to find this info themselves. Yeah, it’s really treacherous to have to make a quick phone call or Google a web site. Must be terrifying.
People aren’t in a bad mood around here. But some people are very high strung and hysterical, and imagine things that aren’t there.
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Anlir,
I am pulling for Kansas as well. Having such an underdog make it to the BCS title game would be great. I personally don’t like the Big 12 that much (not as overrated, though as the Little 11), but Kansas is a good story.
I will be rooting for Kentucky to beat TN, but even if TN wins, Georgia is still in good shape as far as a BCS birth goes. Of course, it would be much nicer to win the SEC East (and get to face LSU), but that way ain’t so bad either. Of course, TN could mess all that up by winning against UK and upsetting LSU (meaning that LSU would get the other BCS bid ahead of UGA). It could happen.
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TJ,
Georgia will do well, no matter what. I don’t think they or TN particularly wants to face LSU. Though, if it is Georgia in the SEC championship game, they will have “home field” advantage with it being in Atlanta.
I want the Vols to beat Kentucky, but I’m not a true believer in the Vols yet. They have been too up and down this year. And the game is at Kentucky. A 22 game losing streak to TN is a big motivator for Kentucky. I just have a feeling this may be the year they break the streak.
If the Vols lose at Kentucky and then lose their bowl game, I think the cries for Fulmer’s head will gain steam. If he wins at Kentucky and loses to LSU, he’ll keep his job.
Who would have ever thought the season would come down to the Kentucky/TN game?
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Wow. 22 games. I didn’t realize it was that long of a streak. KY has their work cut out for them.
I don’t think LSU scares GA. At all. The last two times the two teams have faced one another, GA has demolished them. The last time was the Championship game two years ago. No one thought GA had a chance in that game either.
I don’t think TN will match up well against LSU, but who knows? If TN beats KY, they deserve to go. TN eeked out wins against SC and Vandy, but those were wins. They pulverized GA. GA only has themselves to blame. A completely lackluster offensive performance against SC is essentially the difference. And as bad as they were in that game, having a receiver drop a pass between his numbers on the goal line in the last few minutes of the game didn’t exactly help…
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#12
Joel – The British have found an easy way to reduce the violence in Iraq — leave.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/11/15/africa/ME-GEN-Iraq-Basra.php
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I found The Kite Runner so powerful, I hated to get up and leave it to get a drink of water for fear of what might happen while I was gone. Amazingly well written for a first time novelist who trained as a physician and for whome English is a second language.
I’ve got the second book, just haven’t had time to read it.
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Ha, so now HRW is theorizing (post 48) that the real reason the surge is working is because the British are leaving? LOL
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No, I’m informing you that the British have a far more successful strategy in Basra — leave. The “surge”’s so-called success pales in comparison. The surge and the British departure have nothing in common, the former is in Baghdad and the latter is in Basra. The latter is successful and the former can only find success outside Baghdad in areas where the US have agreed to give control to the Sunni militia they were fighting previous to the surge.
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