Roger — I have no reason to doubt this is true. However, the mind set “It happens but not to OUR group” is just another way to avoid the truth. Bradley’s article isn’t a direct slam on Evangelicalism. He merely asks the question.

We criticize the Muslim clerics for not speaking out more aggressively against the violence we attribute, perhaps falsely, to the Muslim religion. We construe their silence to tacit approval, don’t we?

And so, let’s practice what we preach. Let the Christian preachers speak out against these groups and not just in general ways but name names.

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Ah, so you have seen a movie about an “evangelical subculture.” Is that the extent of your knowledge? Perhaps so—as you did not respond to anything I asked you in #94 to let me know otherwise.

I have not seen the Jesus Camp film. I have seen enough about that segment of Christianity already and don’t need to see any more to know where they are coming from. I disagree with much of their doctrine and practices.

On the other hand, I suspect that the makers of the documentary, Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady have their own agenda. From what I have read the film itself is a fairly objective portrayal of the Pentecostal woman Becky Fischer and her particular ministry. But the film has apparently been used in some circles to portray most, if not all, evangelicals in the same light. When it is used in that way, its objectivity is lost and it becomes nothing more than demonizing, anti-Christian propaganda.

The Brady article that started this thread is a bit more subtle but similar in its approach. He obviously doesn’t like homeschoolers and some evangelicals. He isn’t above using a tragedy to take cheap shots and make underhanded accusations. That is shameful on his part.

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I didn’t know there was “THE evangelical subculture”; I think there are different strokes for different folks as they used to say. But, one particular subculture, exemplified in the documentary “Jesus camp”, uses very powerful mind control techniques on children. If you haven’t seen the documentary, you might rent it and see it for yourself.

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I disagree with your characterization of the “evangelical subculture” as dishonest purveyors of false promises and false expectations leading our kids to despair and even murder. That does not comport with my experience of evangelicals. But maybe your experience is different. On the other hand, maybe you are just an outsider looking in (like some on this thread)—with little actual knowledge of the things you are talking about.

Please give us some insight about where you are coming from. So far you have just criticized others about what you perceive to be wrong; you have told us nothing about what you think is right. Perhaps you could start with your own approach to the Great Commission (Mt 28:19,20), i.e., evangelism. Just how do you fulfill that in your own life?

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I finally got out of it by marrying a Presbyterian, which put me in a very different group of evangelical (and some not-so-evangelical) Christians. But until then, I had been wary of stepping out of that subculture because they had taught me to distrust any other “so-called Christians” as probably not being true Christians or at any rate not faithful to the Bible.

There were times I was in despair because all these Christians around me seemed to have found something that I had not – no matter how many times I tried praying the “sinners prayer” again. They disdained help from psychology, or classes on parenting or communication unless the Bible was the textbook, as it was clear to them that all the answers anyone needed were in Jesus and the Bible.

I have since concluded that there were probably others like me, but most probably gave up sooner, and quit on the church and God, or found a different kind of church. I don’t know if I’m more stubborn, or more thickheaded, that I tried so long to fit in there. I honestly didn’t know there was a larger evangelical community out there, where it was OK to doubt and ask questions and admit struggles and not always have a testimony to give about the latest answer to prayer or how wonderful quiet time had been that morning or who had been led to Christ this week.

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Many young evangelical become well educated, careful and moderate in their behavior, i.e. decent family men/women and effective citizens. I simply don’t buy into your rather negative general view of evangelical Christians.

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Roger — Sadly, you are correct. First, having not seen the fruits of their efforts to bring about a utopia of love and peace, The “Me” Generation put their children in a warehouse (read: daycare) and over time, created the “latch-key” kids. These kids are grown now, and have a deep seated belief that “nothing really matters.” No one really cares about anything. Just drink the keg of life down to its bitter dregs and check out.

However, an evangelical subculture exists in which kids are offered hope for the future. The message is clear, Jesus is the answer to everything. Jesus gives meaning to life. And if we evoke the power of Jesus and take our country for God, he will honor our efforts with success.

This would be wonderful if Jesus actually promised to save our nation and our land. But the teachers of our Christian kids are making a false promise, leading them to have false expectations as they grow up. What is to become of these kids?

When they face the cold, harsh, reality outside, will they also give in to despair like the Latch-key kids? Will they find healing in those who help them face the truth in honest churches? Or will they pick up a gun?

Wake up Gentlemen.

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Roger — Thank you Kiyoshi. We need honesty and we need people to speak out and give their testimony.

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Roger — Jay, this is the kind of thing I am talking about, and I believe, the kind of thing Mr. Bradley’s article highlights. I pray that the Lord will lead you to a group of Christians that remain honest and humble, and also have a good grasp of the New Testament.

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a) a history
b) a variety of subgroups
c) a variety of individuals, some of whom behave in disturbing and dangerous ways

I am suspicious of

a) groups that are unwilling to look at their history honestly and have a tendency to “whitewash” their history to make themselves look better and to deny their “dirty laundry.”

b) readily claim that subgroups (of their own group) have nothing to do with them or readily claim that subgroups (of groups they disapprove of) are representative

c) similar for aberrant individuals. Self searching and examination is appropriate for all. Name calling and slandering is probably not that helpful.

[Except for you, John Smith, name changed to protect the guilty, but you know who you are.]

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