Atheist believer
This year, Americans made bestsellers out of Christopher Hitchens’ blunt book, God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, and Dinesh D’Souza’s What’s So Great About Christianity? Hitchens and D’Souza hotly debated the merits of religion, but another book seems to have muddled the debate.
In the Netherlands, this book about God’s existence (or nonexistence, rather) hit the bestsellers list, too. The title is full of paradoxes: Believing in a God Who Does Not Exist: Manifesto of an Atheist Pastor. So is the author: Klaas Hendrikse, a Dutch Protestant pastor for over 20 years, and an avowed atheist.
Hendrikse rejects the idea of God’s existence but embraces the language of religion, using the word God to refer to relationships between human beings. “God is for me not a being, but a word for what can happen between people,” Hendrikse writes. “Someone says to you, for example, ‘I will not abandon you’ and then makes those words come true. It would be perfectly alright to call that [relationship] God.”
Hendrikse’s book is in its third printing, but Ecumenical News International said both atheists and religious people are looking at Hendrikse askance. The Volksrant, a secular newspaper, called his outlook “bizarre” and compared the pastor to a vegetarian working as a butcher. Bas Plaisier, general secretary of the Netherland’s Protestant church said Hendrikse treats Christianity “as a dogma that can be put out with the rubbish.”
She said, however, that the denomination will not discipline the pastor: “What we as a church, church board and synod can do now above all, is to give personal witness of our faith.”














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back to top33 Comments to “Atheist believer”
The Volksrant, a secular newspaper, called his outlook “bizarre” and compared the pastor to a vegetarian working as a butcher.
LMBO! I’d say that about sums it up.
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Well, well. What a happy looking guy…
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Liz,
That’s Christopher Hitchens in the picture, and no he’s not a happy camper. Especially if you’ve heard his drunken rants.
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I am not sure how to make it interesting enough to make it a best seller, but I am tempted to try and sell a book on Radical Agnosticism. Maybe I can get Peter to start a campaign to get it banned. That might be the hook I need.
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Make It Man,
Yeah, I knew it who it was.
The winking smily face was supposed to represent sarcasm.
Yes, I’ve heard his drunken rants. not much fun…
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this is actually the best picture i have ever seen of him.
His eyes are usually blood shoot and un-focused.
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People can call themselves anything they want. Hendrikse calls himself an “athiest pastor”, Fred Phelps calls himself a “loving Christian”. Go figure. Somehow, just a guess, I suspect way more identify with Phelps than Hendrikse.
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Sounds cool. I think I probably have a similar belief system (I can’t say for sure because I haven’t read the book).
It’s a position that gets flamed by both atheists and theists. To dare suggest that religion has some value really upsets some atheists, and believing that revelation is bunk gets you flamed by some theists.
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He’s just saying publicly what every other pastor says, but in his own mind. Shamans healers and hucksters, them all.
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“Atheist believer?”
And other oxymorons:
Hopeless church
Private faith
Stingy Christian
Unrepentant Christian
Divine Blunders
Holy Hypocrisy
Sinful Saviour
Christian racist
Fashionable discipleship
Tabloid integrity
Temporary tax-increase
Pretty ugly
Genuine imitation
“Now, then…”
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“Atheist believer…”
And other oxymorons:
Hopeless church
Stingy Christian
Private faith
Divine Blunder
Unrepentant Christian
Christian racist
Blind faith
Holy Hypocrisy
Sinful Saviour
Fashionable discipleship
Tabloid integrity
Temporary tax-increase
Definite maybe
Pretty ugly
Genuine imitation
“Now, then…”
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erasmus – You lie! I personally know a number of very sincerely believing pastors, good Godly men all of them.
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Oooohhhh…. Erasmus has become omniscient…
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“Atheist believer…”
And other oxymorons:
Hopeless church
Stingy Christian
Private faith
Divine Blunder
Unrepentant Christian
Christian racist
Blind faith
Holy Hypocrisy
Sinful Savior
Fashionable discipleship
Tabloid integrity
Temporary tax-increase
Definite maybe
Pretty ugly
Genuine imitation
“Now, then…”
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Make it Man (#3):
Yeah that’s Hitchens in the picture on this thread, but if you go to the link in the article (”Ecumenical News…”), you will see a picture of Klass Hendrikse, the Dutch atheist pastor. He doesn’t look too happy either.
Atheism: there is nothing to recommend it, either in truth or in its fruits. It’s just plain ugly.
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Strange, none of my attempted posts showed up on the thread until the next day. Yet other people’s posts were showing up right away. Sorry for the multiple posts but this was the first time this weird problem has happened.
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ERASMUS,
“He’s just saying publicly what every other pastor says, but in his own mind.”
What kind of nonsense is this? Are you trying to take Qwerty’s place? I’m a pastor and I believe in a God who does exist.
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SBG, that is exactly what you would have to say in public.
I have no desire to take Ed’s place, and you are just grasping at straws to say so.
There are millions of believers in other gods who similarly proclaim that they ‘know’ their gods exist. Just like you.
Is there a pluralism of Gods? Are these people confused and led astray by Satan? If they are led astray, it seems to give them the same confidence and sense of ‘personal knowledge’ that your belief does.
Of course the ‘many paths to God’ notion is explicitly rejected by orthodox Christianity, despite the fact that many many many Xian believers do hold to some notion of this.
It is my personal opinion that anyone in an authority position in a religious institution is at bottom aware that it is a method for fleecing the flock. Compartmentalization may mitigate this, and in some circumstances (yours, perhaps) obliviate the issue. I don’t know you, but any time you hear ‘The Lard Works in Mysterious Ways’ you can be sure that someone is talking directly out of the end of their alimentary canal.
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Erasmus is one of those humorless positivists and neo-Darwinians, like Hitchens, who imagine that the Cosmos is merely a material phenomenon whose truth can only be quantified or measured. These folk lack the wit or depth to deal with the metaphysical issues that the best thinkers in the world have dealt with for millennia.
Just now I happen to be reading John Polkinghorne’s book Exploring Reality The Intertwining of Science and Religion [Yale Press] that explains among many other things the surprising connection between quantum physics and the Christian trinity and, while accepting the general poposition of evolution explains the absurdity of regarding homo sapiens as a mere evolved animal.
Polkinghorne, by the way, is a Cambridge mathematical physicist who played a major role in the physics of the quark and at mid-career opted to become an Anglican priest.
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ERASMUS,
It is my personal opinion that atheists say in public that God doesn’t exist but in their own minds struggle with the truth that He does exist. I think that’s why they get so worked up about believers. Compartmentalization might mitigate this but He is patient and He loves you.
2 Peter 3:9
“He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”
1 John 4:9-10
“This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.”
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Solon, your uncharitable characterization is as near to completely untrue as one might possibly get without invoking spiritual authority.
I am not humorless. I get a great deal of hilarious enjoyment out of seeing the contortions and cruel postures one must endure in order to maintain an a priori commitment to their belief. Also, I enjoy Sanford and Son, Daffy Duck, The Office, butterflies landing on flowers, seeing gray squirrels play, watching speckled trout refuse my fly, etc etc etc. These are all humorous to me. I am however sorry that you are such a used up cranky old man, but I love you anyway friend. Poster child for ‘Dont enter the service’ you are.
Now, positivist I am not either. I do draw the distinction, however, between meaningful arguments and nonsense. Invoking magic and shamanistic explanations for the history of the earth or the diversity of life is just a way to say ‘I don’t know’. This of course requires that one be able to accept that descriptions of reality are not reality themselves at all. The best we can say is “It [b]looks like[/b] the earth is billions of years old, that there was no global flood, and that we share a common ancestor with other primates”.
Contrast this with your authoritarian text which fails to substantiate itself on all of these accounts.
I’ve read some of Polkinghorne. It’s really not that impressive.
You can find much better woo regarding quantum physics in other literature. At the root of all such endeavours lies the need to justify one’s personal belief in the face of evidence to the contrary. Quantum woo gives exactly this capacity, a post modern all opinions are the same, it is the interpretation of evidence that is different, relativist nonsense that permeates the Xian church today more than the academy ever has. And the most hilarious (see, I do find you humorous, dour old Solon) part of this juxtaposition is that on the other side of your mouth you will be talking about absolute moralities, while one the yon side you are discussing interpretations.
When pressed there, you will resort to the tin foil hat brigade that there is a conspiracy to maintain ‘materialism’ or whatever menace imaginaire du jour you have been fed by Marvin or Philip Johnson or your local cable news channel. ‘True’ Science is being repressed by the atheist cabal.
C’mon. How could anyone not have a sense of humor when that is the counter argument? Solon, you are a treasure. Bitter, but a treasure.
SBG that is not as creative as you might think. You need to learn about the one true god. I’ll not even bother telling you its name, you already know in your heart that it is not Jehovah and you are worshipping idols of idols of idols of graven images. The True God loves you and is waiting for you patiently, if not in this lifetime perhaps in one of your next ten thousand lifetimes.
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ERASMUS,
“I’ll not even bother telling you its name, you already know in your heart that it is not Jehovah”
You’re right – His name is “Ehyeh” (Exodus 3).
“The True God loves you and is waiting for you patiently, if not in this lifetime perhaps in one of your next ten thousand lifetimes.”
He must not love me that much if he wants me to suffer through 10,000 lifetimes. Actually I’m glad that I only have to suffer through one lifetime before I get to spend eternity with Him.
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SBG, and you know this how?
The same way that suicide creationists knew that they were going to heaven after they flew airplanes into the world trade center?
The same way that naked aborigines know that their chants and potions will bring them a good hunt or contact with their ancestors?
The same way that middle class grey haired ex hippies know that their tarot cards and crystals can give them powers to divine the future?
You are just another shaman. I was trying to give preachers some credit by saying that they were all aware that it was a sham, because some people seem to genuinely need to be told that they are sinners, jesus loves them, and pay up. It’s good for them.
You are saying, however, that you are as gullible as they are. Or you are denying the truth, which is that you know deep down that you might as well be slinging chicken entrails on a wall or sacrificing your first born sun. Two choices: dumb or dishonest.
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ERASMUS,
“dumb or dishonest”
No – just a sinner saved by grace.
By the way, thanks for the personal attack. QWERTY would have done better though.
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You, saved by grace, and a man in a loincloth being eaten alive by mosquites, saved by snorting the ground up powder of 14 plants and the pinky bone of his mortal enemy. Both of you think that they know the truth. The truth is either relative, or one person out of all the other billions that have ever lived has possessed it. Since there is no means of parsing those hypotheses, this is why they are legitimately called ‘nonsense’.
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ERASMUS,
“one person out of all the other billions that have ever lived has possessed it (truth).”
You’re right again – His name is Yeshua.
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No, I meant me.
Your Yeshua very likely never lived, no more so than Vishnu nor Gilgamesh nor Thor nor Zeus.
Of course you knew that this is what I meant, that every single individual has a unique set of religious beliefs and if truth is not relative then only one of set of those beliefs may be indeed true.
And my point is that there is no objective measure for discriminating between any of those propositions.
Some beliefs, such as the earth was covered by a flood sent from god that killed all the plants and animals, may be shown to be objectively false. But if your caveat is that god made it look as if it were false to test our faith, then you have resurrected your belief. Such mealy mouthed equivocation is what you HAVE to do as a shaman.
SBG you might as well be boiling bugs in a banana leaf with big plates in your lips drinking chicken blood and sleeping in a log. Your shamanism and the shamanism of aboriginals is the same thing. The question is, Are you aware that you are a fraud, or do you actually believe this stuff? Why believe that man was made from clay and woman from his rib, when you could believe it’s all floating on the back of a turtle or the dream of a slumbering giant in another dimension?
You know why. Because that wouldn’t get you any respect or tithes from white people in this culture.
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ERASMUS,
“Your Yeshua very likely never lived”
You need to read some history – Tacitus, Pliny, Josephus, Lucian and the Talmud.
“Because that wouldn’t get you any respect or tithes from white people in this culture.”
I’m a volunteer pastor so I don’t receive tithes. White people?
The most important question for you is from Jesus – who do you say that I am? There will be a pop quiz on this later. Unfortunately I can’t tell you when it will happen.
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The pop quiz will be tomorrow. Don’t forget to bring your book–it’s an open book exam.
[Visualizing millions of believers clutching their Bibles and frantically flipping pages as a stern looking Yeshua stands frowning over them.
People arguing over which version and which language is permitted in the examination room.
Catholics to Room 1. Orthodox to Room 2. Protestants to Room 3. Evangelicals to the broom closet downstairs.
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I’d be more interested in this ‘history’ if any of it was contemporary with your Jesus, instead of post facto.
So, you are shamanizing for nothing? I doubt it. What is exactly that shamanizing does for you?
I think your teacher is absent, likely there is a substitute. Better hope not!!! Could be the chicken-god.
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ERASMUS,
“What is exactly that shamanizing does for you?”
I serve God for Him not for me.
“So, you are shamanizing for nothing? I doubt it.”
Back to claims of dishonesty. Well, the teacher is never absent so you might want to think about His question. Have a Merry Christmas!
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RANDOM NAME,
The broom closet is better than the boiler room.:)
Peter didn’t have his bible with him when he answered the question correctly.
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SBG If you are serving a god that does not exist (very likely given the odds that no two people believe in the same god, and as outlined above either god is different things to different people or most people are wrong) then who are you ’serving’ it for?
I say your god doesn’t exist. THAT MEANS if true then you are serving yourself. Since it is most likely true that your god doesn’t exist, it is most likely true that you are shamanizing for nothing. My point was that at least some shamans are honest about this, like the preacher in the article. My suspicion is that nearly all shamans are deeply aware of this information but repress it in their day to day life.
Like you do.
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