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Good morning!
Today’s movie quote: “Seeing is believing, but sometimes the most real things in the world are the things we can’t see.”
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We’re off to Greensboro.
Merry Christmas Everyone !!
I would like to start wishing everyone the gift they would like best (a good job for NJL & Kim, Anlar’s throat gets well and the report good, MiM solves his pain problem, Mumsee, kids improve. But I know I’m missing someone.) Whatever it is, I wish it for you this blessed season.
RAVE (I know it’s outa thread.) They play real Christmas carols on the radio in Hendersonville. In SC recently, the restaurant we were in played “seasonal songs” (Winter Wonderland, Sleigh Bells, White Christmas, Silver Bells, etc, all the time without a single real carol.)
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Chas,
As one old coot on this web site to an even older one, I wish you a Merry Christmas as well, and endorse your excellent Christmas wish for everyone of the gift they would like best.
My car now has lights again, and my wonderful family are coming over tomorrow to visit us on the island for Sunday and Monday.
My wife, a less ambivalent and cluttered atheist than I, loves Christmas. She loves what you describe as “real Christmas carols” and she loves to belt out the Hallelujah chorus from Handel’s Messiah.
She loves to decorate a Christmas tree, and usually spends hours at a Christmas tree lot picking out a tree that satisfies her exacting requirements. This year, she found no trees worthy of her tastes left on any lots on the island.
My chain saw has a brand new chain (while the old one gets professionally sharpened). There are two hemlocks growing too close to each other on our five acres of scrubby (mostly alder) woods. Today, one of the hemlocks will be sacrificed for my wife’s atheist Christmas joy.
She will decorate it today for the arrival of Random Granddaughter and her two mommies tomorrow.
I wish everyone one here a joyful and peaceful Christmas in keeping with your beliefs and hopes.
I do wish for a Preview again as well. No doubt there is some dumb error in this post. I forgive myself.
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Merry Christmas to all.
That having been said, (clears throat and peers warily over top of bifocals) here is an article in which the Archbishop of Canterbury debunks much ofthe Christmas story. How much of what he says should an inerrantist regard as heresy?
The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, dismissed the Christmas story of the Three Wise Men yesterday as nothing but “legend”.
There was scant evidence for the Magi, and none at all that there were three of them, or that they were kings, he said. All the evidence that existed was in Matthew’s Gospel. The Archbishop said: “Matthew’s Gospel doesn’t tell us there were three of them, doesn’t tell us they were kings, doesn’t tell us where they came from. It says they are astrologers, wise men, priests from somewhere outside the Roman Empire, that’s all we’re really told.” Anything else was legend. “It works quite well as legend,” the Archbishop said.
Further, there was no evidence that there were any oxen or asses in the stable. The chances of any snow falling around the stable in Bethlehem were “very unlikely”. And as for the star rising and then standing still: the Archbishop pointed out that stars just don’t behave like that.
Although he believed in it himself, he advised that new Christians need not fear that they had to leap over the “hurdle” of belief in the Virgin Birth before they could be “signed up”. For good measure, he added, Jesus was probably not born in December at all. “Christmas was when it was because it fitted well with the winter festival…”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3076008.ece
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“Polar Express”
A blessed Christmas to you all.
In Italian: Buon Natatle a tutti!
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Oops! Buon Natale a tutti.
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As a child who read too much and who didn’t like being told what to do, I was fascinated with the idea of anarchism. As I grew older, I realized there was “left-wing” anarchism, usually called “anarchism” and “right-wing” anarchism, usually called libertarianism.
I don’t know of any successful anarchistic society in the world. Left wing anarchism at its worst turned into Communism. The state was supposed to wither away, or something.
I don’t know of any working libertarian society, either. Any effort to create one would probably turn into a corporate slave state, as the following web page discusses:
http://www.cix.co.uk/~morven/libertarian.html
As a would-be satirist, I know that it is fatal to explain a joke, so this message comes close to literary suicide. However, as far as I know, no one will be reading it, so posting it comes close to a literary murder-suicide pact.
I thought of the idea of the “bicycle factory” libertarian-welfare state scheme about 30 years ago. I tried to write it up as something I could publish at the time. I’ve never figured out a market for it, so I inflict it on people for free.
As far as I can figure out (which is not very far), I think the bicycle factory I described in my last series of Cyberia posts would really work if any developed country actually tried it. Through detailed political-economic analysis (ten seconds of thought off the top of my head), I have concluded we could implement the bicycle factory system (using currently available technology) here in the United States for a yearly cost equivalent to one month of the cost of running the Iraq War.
If implemented, it would eliminate most welfare and unemployment and quite a bit of petty crime, while preserving quite a bit of freedom. It will never be tried.
Oh, well. It’s a brilliant idea, if I do say so.
(Nobody else will agree, so I have to say it.)
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Arcadia,
Much of what is thought of as the “Christmas Story” is not in the Bible. For example, it does not say there are “three” wise men, although it enumerates three gifts given: gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Much of the story is tradition passed along in Christmas carols and such. All an “inerrantist” need believe is what is actually in the Bible. For example, that Mary, a virgin, conceived by the Holy Spirit a baby boy who was the Messiah, the Son of God, sent into the world to later die for our sins.
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Thank you, Chas, for your kind wishes. I do believe in my heart of hearts that God is in the process of providing me with the right job. I hope you have a great and safe trip to Greensboro. I also join you in wishing a Blessed Christmas to all.
Random, I’m glad your car has lights! This is helpful. I hope you will ponder that wonderful feeling your wife has at Christmas. That’s how believing Christians feel all the time about the Lord.
Christmas isn’t about whether or not Jesus was born in December or if the wise men were kings. What matters is that Christ came to reconcile us to God. The Archbishop can keep his very unlikelies. I’ll keep faith.
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All I want for Christmas is a preview feature,
A preview feature,
A preview feature.
Gee, if I could only have a preview feature,
Then I could wish you all a Metty Christnas!
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Spell check would help, too.
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Ditto, Michelle
Peter Leavitt,
I haven’t seen you around today, but if you happen to see this, I wanted you to know I got that book about Freud and C.S. Lewis on the internet used for almost nothing beyond the postage. Thanks for recommending it.
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Congratulations, Mark Roth. What a neat Christmas present!
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Off for the family Christmas Party. Need prayer in dealing with feuding sister-in-laws.
Or is that Sisters-in-law.
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I just call them outlaws.
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Arcadia,
As Janie pointed out, most of what the archbishop identified as legend is simply that, legend. An inerrantist has no trouble whatsoever agreeing that there is no need to believe in three kings, or an ox and ass, or snow, since none of those are mentioned in the Bible account. I don’t know what it means when it says the star “stopped” over the place where the child was, but I think most people would have no problem with classing that as the same kind of non-scientific description as saying “the sun set.” As for the virgin birth, the archbishop isn’t even saying it’s false, simply that one can become a Christian without believing it. And as for December, there are a variety of opinions on when Jesus was probably born. One theory does have him being born in December, not on the basis of the traditional celebration but because of lining up the details of Mary’s pregnancy with that of Elizabeth’s, and Elizabeth’s to Zechariah’s service in the temple – though I don’t remember the specifics. In any case, it’s hardly central to anyone’s faith.
I had a pastor who studied Middle Eastern customs in order to better understand the New Testament, and he went further in knocking down extra-biblical legends, saying that there is no reason to think that Mary and Joseph arrived in Bethlehem in a hurry to find a place to stay, or that they stayed in a stable. It simply says she put the baby in a manger, because there was no room in the guest-room. This would likely have been in the house of some of Joseph’s relatives in Bethlehem (after all, his family came from there, and staying anywhere but with relatives would have been very rude), where either the guest-room was already taken or was inadequate for giving birth. Houses were built with a sort of “split-level” arrangement, with the raised area for the main room of the house where most of the family would sleep (the head of the house and his wife might have their own room, which doubled as the guest-room), and a lower level closer to the entrance, where the animals lived. (Keeping animals indoors on a lower level was common throughout the middle ages also.) The only reason to think Mary and Joseph arrived in a hurry is to explain why they would have had to get a room in a stable, so with that out of the way, they were probably there weeks if not months ahead of time. There may or may not have been animals around for the birth, but there were most likely a number of women relatives helping Mary when the time came.
And none of that contradicts the Bible, only traditional stories and carols.
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Thanks, Pauline,
You did a much better and more thorough job than I did!
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Hey, Anlir,
If you’re around any time soon, how about a review of “Sweeney Todd”?
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Mark Roth – Congratulations on your new grandchild. What a wonderful blessing!
NJLawyer – Your comment that you know God is in the process of providing you with the right job reminded me of something my pastor has said several times over the years – “God provides until He provides.”
We’ve found that to be so true.
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Welcome Trenton James! Congrats grandpa Mark Roth!
Last night, fifth child and I spent hours trying to get a hot air balloon off the ground. We melted lots of plastic and inflated lots of bags but the only lift off was when he picked his up and tried to help it fly. Any experienced homemade hot air ballooners around with tips? Please tell me before he gets home from shopping as I want a working one so I can win the competition. Very important. Okay, not really. But we are having a little race to see who can figure it out and I welcome all suggestions from anybody not too busy with Christmas prep. Back to making the dough for the gingerbread houses..
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Janie and Hamachi,
Because of what you said yesterday, I’ve been working on a Creche today. I’m just now leaving the shop with the building part done. Looks pretty good even if I do say so myself! Thank you for your encouragement- it made the difference!
Now on to Mary, Joseph, and the babe in the manger….
Now going to go home and get ready for dinner with a long time friend from college.
Thanks for the wellness wishes Chas!
Merry Christmas all!
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Merry Christmas to all!
KBells- Looking forward to seeing you at the party! I had no idea we shared sisters in law.
On the Holidays:
My kids go to a private school. My daughter’s class recently did a project on Family Traditions. Yesterday she brought home a medium sized spiral bound book that gives each child a page to discuss a tradition their family enjoys. Since it’s The Holidays, many are about Holiday traditions, but not all. Some are about annual vacations or some variant. Anyway, In her class of 16 kids, here is the breakdown on those who discussed a tradition involving the holiday season. Quite a variety.
3- Christmas traditions (we are one of these, although atheists)
3- Hanukkah traditions
1- Christmas and Hanukkah traditions mixed
1- Chinese New Year tradition
1- Santa Lucia tradition
1- Greek tradition of St. Basil on New Years Eve
1- Charrshanbeh Suri tradition
It really is a mix of Happy Holidays
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MIM-
Happy to help! I was really hoping you’d go with the clogs, but the creche sounds like an even better idea. I’m sure she will love it.
On that note, you really should watch at least Part One of Merry Christmas Mr. Bean. It’s five minutes long and involves a creche. I posted the link on the Rants and Raves page last night.
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Just for Janie:
A review of “Sweeney Todd”
I saw the movie last night, and what a movie it is!
There are a couple of things everyone should know:
1. The movie is based upon the Broadway musical, so about 2/3 of the movie is sung, not spoken.
2. The movie is directed by Tim Burton (”Edward Scissorhands” and “The Nightmare Before Christmas”).
As for the basic plot, it’s about a young couple with a baby and a nice life. A judge (Judge Turpin) wants the beautiful wife, so he has the husband jailed. Eventually the wife poisons herself and disappears. The judge raises the baby daughter alone and keeps her locked in the house. The husband (Sweeney Todd) gets out of jail and resumes his barbershop while planning to get even with the judge. Does he ever get even? In the process he (and Mrs. Lovett) go “mad” and start killing the customers.
Johnny Depp plays Sweeney Todd the lunatic barber. Helena Bonham Carter plays Mrs. Lovett (his landlady, a meat pie maker, and eventually his lover). Alan Rickman (Professor Snape in “Harry Potter”) plays Judge Turpin. All 3 are excellent, and both Johnny and Helena do a respectable job singing. If you’re a Johnny Depp or Tim Burton fan, you’ll want to see the movie.
Ok, here’s the “nitty gritty”
Sex – none. No nudity.
Language – a few cuss words.
Violence – Warning! Extreme violence and very bloody!
Intensity – moderate to mild
As always, my recommendation is based on two thing:
1. Is it worth paying full price? Yes (and I did, which is rare for me).
2. Would I see it again? Yes (at the $2 theater).
The movie is quite hilarious in places, repetitive in a few (recurring Broadway songs), a little long, and quite graphic and bloody. After all, it’s about a barber and a meat pie baker who go totally bonkers.
When it was over all we said to each other was “Wow! What a movie!”. (Don’t say I didn’t warn you about the violence and the blood). No one under 16 should be allowed to see this movie in my opinion. I’d say the movie will do big business and one people will be talking about for awhile.
All in all, I’d give the movie an 8 (out of 10).
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H20,
I like Mr. Bean. Have you ever seen his video of him cooking the Thanksgiving Turkey. It is so funny!
Also, the one where he paints his apartment is hilarious. He spends an inordinate amount of time taping up the windows, the woodwork, the door frames, the light fixture, etc. Then he sets a can of paint in the middle of the room and drops a gigantic firecracker in it. The paint can explodes and covers the room with paint. And “wal-la” it’s all done!
For those who don’t know, Mr. Bean (British, real name “Rowan Atkinson)) is a modern “Charlie Chaplan”. He doesn’t speak – it’s all physical comedy. You might know him from the Brit-com “Blackadder”.
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I just watched a TV show called, “The 100 greatest discoveries in Physics”.
Evolution was mentioned over and over again throughout the show.
It must be difficult for some to watch a show like this that ties all science together. The word evolution doesn’t refer to only the biological. Evolution is a concept that shows up again and again in nature.
The bottom-line? It’s impossible to deny one small portion of science. When you deny a fundamental concept of science, you deny all of science.
It’s kind of like denying nuclear weapons. I don’t know anyone who has actually seen one go off. How do you know they exist? Maybe film footage was faked and it’s all a big lie? And yet, we spend of fortune trying to protect ourselves from them.
What if only “small” weapons existed? What if you could make a nuclear weapon up to here, but not larger? We accept that larger weapons can be built because scientists tell us it’s so. We accept that virus can “evolve” into even more dangerous forms. Why? Because scientists tell us it is so. We believe that the moon is moving farther away every year. We can measure that so we know it to be fact. The equipment is designed and operated by “scientists”.
One of the fundamental cornerstones of science, and because it threatens arcane beliefs, it is denied. Not because of evidence proving otherwise. The arguments against the “science” of evolution are, “it COULD have been this way” and “how do you know it didn’t happen this way?” If the evidence is laid out in front of you and you turn your head away and refuse to see it, then that’s it. I would prefer that the religious simply become honest and say, “I refuse to believe in evolution because it threatens my supernatural beliefs. I don’t want my children learning the history of the natural world because it conflicts with my idea of spiritualistic and unseen super beings and I would prefer them to learn mysticism as truth”.
Wouldn’t that garner more respect than subterfuge? Just deny that dinosaurs ever existed. No one can possibly believe that 100-ton dinosaurs lived in a wooden boat shorter than they are tall. I believe if evangelicals said, “I don’t want my children studying science” and leave it at that. The government could save a fortune on science teachers. Only teach science with parental approval. I believe that would be best for all.
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Anlir,
Thanks for the review of Sweeney Todd. Sounds like fun and I’m sure we will see it.
I have a growing appreciation for Bean, and will certainly look for the episodes you mentioned above. There is a turkey cooking section in the Christmas episode that is pretty funny too. I haven’t seen the Thanksgiving one. The kids absolutely love him! What a kook! I appreciate that he doesn’t have to use crude humor to get a laugh. Rare today.
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Thanks, Anlir!
There is also a review of it by a Christian reviewer under the “movies & tv” tab. I’m actually familiar with the musical, so I knew it was a bloody story about crazy people and revenge. I’m fighting with myself a little about seeing it, and I’ll probably wait awhile after Christmas. But I’ve seen everything that is available on VHS or DVD with Depp in it, and I can’t imagine missing this.
I was actually going to skip “Charlie and the Chocolate Factory” because I heard it was “dark” and “quirky”. But I couldn’t stay away, and loved it so much I bought the DVD, which I have watched about four times. It’s more true to the Roald Dahl story that the original movie, and I thought it was highly moral.
I keep thinking, “I’d get to see him do a musical, and I’m considering not going?” (I usually do not go to any kind of gory movies.) In my experience, though, Depp is so good it really doesn’t matter what he’s in.
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A Merry Christmas to all as we celebrate the miracle of the Incarnation.
I’m looking forward to church services tomorrow joining in praise and adoration of the Christ whose birth we celebrate.
Christmas will be a little different this year as we have relocated to the Southeast. Warm weather instead of snow, separation from two of our three children and their spouses. We are expecting the cell phone bill to be a little higher than usual and lots of pictures shared via email.
It will be a different kind of celebration, but celebration nonetheless. Again, Merry Christmas to all.
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MIM,
I’m really glad you are making the creche–a most joyful Christmas to you and your family!
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Mark Roth,
Congrats to you and the family on the new grandson. What a Christmas present!
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Rdean,
My husband (a Christian and an engineer) watches every documentary on physics that he knows is going to be on. It hasn’t ruined his faith yet. Sometimes I actually watch, too.
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Here is an organization I will be donating to before year end. I need some more deductions! I’d rather give them the money and give less to the government to use for war.
http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/store.html
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opps! Here is the main page.
http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/
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Congratulations on your new grandson, Mark! Great name!
H2O – It gave me a really sad feeling when I read your claim to atheism. In the back of my mind, I’ve known you are and yet to see it in black and white like that just made me hurt for you and your family.
MiM – I think the Creche idea is marvelous and if it was me receiving such a gift, I would absolutely love it. You’ll have to give us the link to your pictures when all is completed!
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Janie – What about Sleepy Hollow? I saw it on TV recently, & was quite disappointed. I like Depp a lot, but thought that movie was a waste of his talent. I even thought he was just so-so in it. (Sorry!)
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Merry Christmas to everyone! You won’t see me much over the next week–no computer access between Christmas Day and late December 28, and a deadline to work on tonight and Christmas Eve. (That’s why I haven’t been on here much the last 24 hours, just a quick check-in or two.) But I hope you all have a great Christmas.
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Another show called, “The greatest scientific discoveries of 2007”.
Bio nano computers made out of RNA, DNA and protein. Deliver drugs, target diseased cells.
Use virus to attach light sensitive DNA to targeted chromosomes and turn them on or off with micro fiber optics. Cure brain disease. Has already worked on lab animals with Parkinson’s disease and certain forms of epilepsy.
A planet just 1 and a half times larger than earth has been found less than 20 light years away orbiting a red dwarf star. Because the star is so much smaller, the planet is able to be closer to sun so we can actually see an eclipse and calculate the temperature of the sun from 32 to 104 Fahrenheit. Because of the wobble (similar to tides on earth caused by the moon), we also know the obit is circular, meaning the temperature remains constant.
Making embryonic stem cells from ordinary skin cells.
Documenting the difference in genome between people. This could mean we tailor make cures, such as cancer treatments.
Ice cap, half the size of the US has disappeared from the North Pole. The revised estimate is that it will be completely gone by 2013. That’s only 6 years away. If the glaciers covering Greenland also melts, it will raise sea levels by 40 METERS at least. That’s like 120 feet. Since 70% of the world’s population live on the coast, this will cause mass migrations that the human race has never seen before. It’s happening, it’s picking up steam. It’s too late to stop it no matter what we do.
1/3 of all bees has died. The root cause has been identified as a virus. A vaccine is hopefully being developed before the next growing season.
There are almost no males being born above the Arctic Circle. Some villages haven’t had a boy born for several years and all the children are girls. It’s been discovered to the chemicals in fish that is causing this. I say feed the fish to China.
Light has been viewed to bend in space. Something is bending it. Something that can’t be seen.
Funny that scientists that make all these wonderful discoveries and inventions could be wrong about evolution, but evangelicals, who have little experience in science are correct. That doesn’t seem odd?
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Thanks all for the encouragement.
I’m scared to actually carve the figures now… I haven’t done any real carving for several years, and hardly ever any figures. So wish me luck. I’ll start on them tomorrow.
Of course I’ve looked at several sets lately, and the one I had been admiring online for the past several days, I saw first hand this evening, and I’m not as impressed as I was. So maybe I still have the eye for it…
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RDean,
Why are you obsessed with Christians?
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If I’m obsessed, it’s because I love this country. I believe it is going through a hard time right now. With the resurgence of mysticism and the attempt to add discrimination into the constitution. Invading other countries. The damage to the institution of science. The introduction of torture. The willingness to follow any leader that spouts the arcane. Clinging to discrimination against other US citizens for “moral” reasons. I feel if reasonable people didn’t point out these issues on this site, it would fester and fall into an orgy of occult beliefs. How many times have you heard that the country needs to be saved from liberals? Look at the incredible damage done to this country in every area over that last 7 years. The US can’t continue down this path of superstition and the supernatural. The US is a strong country, but its strength is finite. It has been thrown away in a reckless manager.
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manager should be manner.
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VS-
Can I say thank you and I’m sorry without contradicting myself? Yours is one of the most honest unconditional expressions of love I have seen here. Thank you for caring about my family and me. I’m sorry I would say something to leave you feeling hurt on our behalf. I understand what you are saying, and I know it comes from your heart. Thank you, sincerely.
My wife disagrees with me that we are atheists. We both come from very religious families from different sects that identify as Christian. I have learned here that these mainstream sects, although believers in the divinity of Jesus, are not considered “Real Christians” by self proclaimed “Serious Christians.” I have adopted the nomenclature used by “Serious Christians” on this blog, and it excludes our families and the generations that preceded us here in America since the 1600’s. It may be my mistake to accept defined terms, but it’s alright and I don’t mind. As a result, I have become comfortable with the Atheist label and now use it freely.
My wife says we believe in God, and insists I am not an Atheist, but rather an Agnostic. I use what I have learned here to argue that we are indeed Atheists. She says not believing in “God” as defined by “Serious Christians,” and not believing the Bible or Jesus are divine does not make us Atheists. Perhaps we’re Radical Agnostics? We agree to disagree at times, and it’s alright. We do agree on the really important things.
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MIM-
What you are doing is really cool. Even if the figures are not as perfect as you would hope, your wife will love them knowing you made them especially for her. That’s what counts. Have you practiced in front of the mirror? You know… to tell her how much you love her!! And don’t look away! Eye contact is essential. You have to look like this:
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Messages 41 & 42
It has been thrown away in a reckless manager.
manager should be manner.
Are you sure you don’t mean reckless manger?
The Consumer Products Safety Division has announced that it is prohibiting women giving birth in mangers.
A spokesperson said, “We realize space is often short at inns. However, conditions in mangers are not very hygienic for either mother or child. Even though a mother may say,’I am under divine protection,’ we have to insist that childbirth under such conditions is quite reckless and risky. In fact shaggy dogs (hardly the cleanest of animals) are often found in mangers as well. We prefer women give birth in hospitals, but in extreme circumstances, giving birth in an inn is still preferable to giving birth in a reckless manger.”
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#43
Perhaps we’re Radical Agnostics?
My goodness, Radical Agnosticism seems to be spreading like wildfire in a pouring rain. Nevertheless, I am still waiting for the first $5,000 membership fee to arrive. If anyone is going to join before the end of the year, you definitely need to get that check in the mail quickly.
What am I going to spend the money on? you ask? Probably, you are suspicious. You know that many cult leaders spend offerings on wine, women, and song.
I confess. I am no different.
I too will spend your love offering on wine, women, and song.
The woman is Random Granddaughter.
When her mommies and grandparents have a class of wine at dinner, she gets “kid wine” (fizzy water) with a little coloring.
When I recently asked her how old she is, she said, “Three and five/sixths” (indicating she is studying her math hard at pre school). It also indicates she will be four in February, so the song will be “Happy Birthday.”
So get your love offering in right away!
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RDean,
The sky is not falling. This country has “survived” many generations of Christians since its founding, and, I imagine, will “survive” the depredations of many more… [/sarcasm off]
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#45-
“Are you sure you don’t mean reckless manger?”
Reckless manger would definitely have more punch this time of year.
#46-
Wine, women, and song is a fine use of the funds. I am convinced and have inserted a $5000 bill into my hard drive. It is Christmas time, after all.
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Karen O, I’m glad to read that a pastor agrees with me! I will be quoting him in the next few weeks: “God provides until He provides.” Good watchwords!
Congratulations, Mark Roth, on your new grandson. I suspect his parents do not live in NJ. I can’t imagine anyone naming their child “Trenton” in NJ, but it’s a great name — with a lot of American history attached to it!
RDean, I don’t know any Christians who don’t admit that dinosaurs existed. I’ve just never met any. Most the of the Christians I know have read JOB. Give it a shot, especially the part where God asks Job, “And where we you when….” and the parts about leviathan, etc. I have no problem watching science programs. They’ve never affected my faith one way or the other. I don’t worry about the Archibishop of Canterbury either when he says “stars don’t behave that way.” People only recently “discovered” Haley’s comet and the fact that it comes around every 75 years. It’s been there all along. So, too, I believe, is it with the star in the Gospels.
Hamachitwo writes:…..”We do agree on the really important things.” Don’t know how to tell you this, but Jesus is one of those “really important things.” People here can argue all day about which denomination is the “right” one, but Jesus doesn’t. He looks straight into the heart. He knows if you believe in him (or if you don’t). That’s what matters to him.
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Looks like we’ll be having a white Christmas here. Church was cancelled this morning due to the bad weather, and my older son is taking a break right now from shovelling the walk and driveway, while I try to comply with my younger son’s wish to teach him how to play chess. (I know the basics but never had the interest in learning strategy, so I’m hoping the Usborne book his older brother learned from will help.)
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A little late to write, but does anybody want to share any of their favorite verses in the Bible?
Here are a few of mine(from the KJV):
Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
2Ki 9:20 And the watchman told, saying, He came even unto them, and cometh not again: and the driving is like the driving of Jehu the son of Nimshi; for he driveth furiously.
My idea of the first reckless driver.
Imagining a the king in his chariot whipping his horses going at full speed regardless of safety, gave me a few laughs before.
Lastly,
Lu 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Who says Christians can’t go armed?
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RIO: It’s hard for me to choose just one as there are so many verses I love. One of my favorites is Psalm 131, a psalm of David, and a beautiful picture of the beautiful relationship God desires. “My heart is not proud, O Lord, my eyes are not haughty; I do not concern myself with great matters or things too wonderful for me. But I have stilled and quieted my soul; like a weaned child with it’s mother, like a weaned child is my soul within me. O Israel, put your hope in the Lord both now and forevermore.”
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Pauline: We started out for church today and ended up going about 7 miles and then turning around and heading home. We expected the county roads to be bad, but were surprised the main highway was also quite bad. I was very disappointed as I was looking forward to the service. Also, my daughter, son-in-law and 2 grandsons are driving up in it right now. This is normally about a 4 hour drive. My husband did clear out the drive way, although it will soon be filled again. It is beautiful, but no fun driving in.
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#47: This country has “survived” many generations of Christians since its founding
Not in my lifetime have the Christians pushed religion into the public arena the way they have for the last twenty years. I remember when JFK explained to the country that he would be “president” first, for ALL Americans and his supernatural beliefs would take a back seat to what is good for the country.
These days, religious leaders have refused to offer occult sacraments to political figures because their voting record didn’t reflect “church” stance. The religious have convinced themselves that only they have “morals” and “values” and the rest of America must be “saved”.
The last seven years have been disaster after disaster for this country. Ideology has trumped reason.
Even an ultra conservative like Pat Buchanon has publicly stated that Iraq has been the greatest disaster for this country in his lifetime. I believe that many other conservatives and Republicans are afraid to speak up because the Republicans will accuse them of being unpatriotic and on the side of the radicals. This has happened over and over again. You can not deny it.
#49: I don’t know any Christians who don’t admit that dinosaurs existed.
Then you don’t know as many as you think. I have worked with Christians who say flat out that scientists have been carving pretend bones out of rock and presenting them as “fossils”. The favorite example seems to be “If you put a monkey in a room for a million years with a piano, it will eventually tap out the first piano concerto simply from hitting random keys.” That is the way they explain the patterns of feathers and skin in the rock. It’s just random.
#49: Jesus is one of those “really important things.”
Mystical figures dead thousands of years can mean a lot to you, but to me, it is annoying. Christians desperately try to make these mystical figures relevant to today. Christians and Jews were all one religion. What split them up was when the Jews centered in Jerusalem rebelled against the Roman Empire against the wishes of other Jews. The two groups divided into Jews and a new religion that took their name from one of their leaders, Jesus. This is why Jesus and all of his family and friends were Jews and follows the Jewish Bible. Christians are really just a split off sect of Judaism.
Certainly, there are many good things that Jesus was reported to have said in the Bible. However, how many Christians truly follow that? I think the most revealing thing was when Jesus was supposedly on the cross and told the two others they were welcome into heaven, the ONLY requirement was that they believe in and accept Jesus as the Son of God. I know the two are described as “thieves” but in those days, most of the time, a thief would loose an appendage, not be crucified. Even then, the death sentence was reserved to those convicted of true evil OR a threat to the existing government. The point was that you could get into heaven simply by accepting the reality of this supernatural being. They couldn’t be murderers or it would look like Jesus was accepting murderers into heaven. Similar to why the Bible never comes out and says the children of Adam and Eve married each other. They don’t want to look like they are giving approval to incest. Yes, Jesus gave some rules to live by, love your brother as yourself. He also gave other rules, judge not.
Christians have completely turned their backs on this. They try to force others into their religion. They attempt to put it into public schools. They accuse non-believers of not being “moral”. They want to add the arcane to science. They have even wanted to put their beliefs into the US Constitution. The founders of the constitution recognized the danger of the religious, which is why the put limits on religion.
To me, the worst is that they suggest that atheists don’t have morals because they don’t believe a “supernatural super spirit being” is “watching” them. They don’t understand how insulting that is.
Today is different than in the past. Our treasury is bankrupt. We are losing our technological edge. Our military is stretched. Our infrastructure is falling apart. I have never seen our country this split. Our government is torturing. All of this is with the involvement of the religious. So, yes, I am worried.
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Rio,
My favorite is Isaiah 54:10
“Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed,
yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken
nor my covenant of peace be removed,”
says the Lord, who has compassion on you.
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RDean,
I’d be worried too if Christians were actually as you portray them…
Almost every point you make about Christians are a caricature of the real thing. I wish you’d make an effort to actually understand my points instead of projecting your misconceptions upon them. I’ve corrected you on the misconceptions that I think Atheists don’t have morals a number of times, yet you persist even so.
And you call me illogical. What am I supposed to think when you ignore and misconstrue, and stubbornly persist in your misunderstanding?
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All you people with snow for Christmmas have me jealous! I wouldn’t want to be snowed in, but would love some snow to set the mood.
NJL-
I may have been born with a skeptic gene, because no matter how sincerely I try to believe, I can not. If He knows all hearts, he will know mine is earnest and cut me some slack for having tried for most of my life.
Pauline-
Good on you for teaching your son to play chess. I love playing with my kids and it’s something I think of as a highlight of parenting. Don’t beat him all the time, but don’t make the mistake of letting him win all the time either
If he really enjoys it you might look into whether there is a chess club at school. That can help a lot with learning strategy. It can also be a huge time commitment if he decides to play in tournaments!
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Here’s some good light hearted Christmas fun!
a 1990 SNL skit: The Global Warming Christmas Special
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgSnoFz-lZU
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Oooh… Mitt Romney was trying to clean up the doo-doo from claiming his dad marched with MLK. Pretty entertaining.
Romney: “You know, I’m an English literature major as well. When we say, ‘I saw the Patriots win the World Series, it doesn’t necessarily mean you were there — excuse me, the Super Bowl. I saw my dad become president of American Motors. Did that mean you were there for the ceremony? No, it’s a figure of speech.”
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H2O,
Unfortunately my son (it was the younger one who wanted to learn chess) lost interest as soon as he heard Dad turn on the PS2 downstairs. Maybe another time though.
My older son took over for his little brother, and I finally beat him, but as he pointed out he hadn’t started the game so he not only hadn’t chosen the first moves, he didn’t have a good sense where all the pieces were for that reason.
The second game he won. I tried, but I just don’t have any sense of chess strategy, or enough interest to try to develop it. My husband can’t understand why I don’t find chess or bridge more interesting, since I love playing certain computer games that he says require strategy also. I don’t know – either Freecell and Spider Solitaire and Mahjongg require a very different kind of strategy from chess and bridge, or I just like games that I play against myself/the computer rather than against other people.
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Good question Rio but difficult to choose just one favorite: Here’s a few of mine:
Psalm 73:25-26 – Whom have I in heaven but you?
And earth has nothing I desire besides you. My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.
I Peter 2.9 – But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
Rev 4.11 – “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”
(Pauline’s favorite is also one of mine.)
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Anlir,
Just thought you should know: I’m posting while Hot Fuzz is paused on my DVD player. This movie gets funnier each time I watch it. I sometime wonder if I’m truly British deep down, given my proclivity for their humour and beer; but then I realize that their food sucks, and I thank God (again) that I was born in Texas.
My brother’s Christmas gift to our family was to disclose the heretofore untold name that he and his wife had picked out for their daughter (due to be born on Jan. 4th). Best Christmas gift I’ve gotten in a long time.
Finally, my favorite verse(s), from Philippians 2:
“Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Merry Christmas, y’all!
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Pauline,
We have the enormously popular annual Christmas chess tourney raging as we speak. It has been going for three days and it is making life much quieter as people are focused and strategizing and wondering who they will be playing next. The consolation matches have not yet begun as people are too busy playing side matches and sharpening their skills. I am not a chess strategist but am enjoying watching one and all take interest in something they would not have individually without the big tourney. Of course, we have never had the enormously popular Christmas chess tourney before so I am improvising as we go.
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RobHays,
I have long been a fan of all things British, but particularly so when it comes to their humor. I am a huge fan of Brit-coms. I particularly like “Red Dwarf”, “The Vicar of Dibley”, and “Keeping Up Appearances”.
I am now the proud owner of the original (pre-American) series of “The Office”. I haven’t even seen the American version of “The Office” yet, though everyone raves about it.
I also like music that’s popular in Britain, like “The Manic Street Preachers”, “Jesus & Mary Chain” and “Texas”. When I can afford it, I buy “Q Music” magazine.
*****
Well, the final Christmas party went down last night and a good time was had by all. I came home with a 2008 “Tennessee Vols” calendar and the special edition of “Gone With The Wind” dvd.
Tomorrow night we’ll be watching San Diego play Denver (I wonder if Lynn will be there?), then go to an 11 p.m. Christmas Eve service with some friends. Then on Christmas Day it will be a quiet meal, followed by our usual trip to the movie theater on Christmas night. We’re planning to see “Walk Hard”.
I pulled out my 2007 movie ticket stubs last night and counted them. With a movie on Christmas night and one more on Dec. 30th, I will have seen 55 movies this year. That’s up a little from the last two years. I may post a Top 10 list if I can find 10 movies that are worthy. It wasn’t a particularly good year for movies.
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Anlir – I don’t know as if I’ve seen 55 movies (in theater) in all of my 55 years of living!
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Pauline-
The dreaded PlayStation thwarted your good intentions. Tough to compete with sound effects and cool graphics. Seems like it worked out well for you though, providing a chance to play with both kids. It’s all good. I am self taught, but do enjoy it a lot and win more than I lose, even against good players. I’ve been known to offer my opponent a beer and then let mine go warm. My oldest can now beat me if I’m at all distracted. Good for him. I’ve never given him beer.
Mumsee’s First Annual Chess Tournament sounds like a great way to quiet things down at a time when kids are bouncing off the walls with excitement. It will make a wonderful family tradition.
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Anlir,
The UK Office is one of the most excruciating watching experiences I’ve ever had. I loved every minute of it. A few other recent BBC shows worth your time: Spaced (from the Shaun/Fuzz crew), The IT Crowd, and Black Books. All varying degrees of delightful absurdity.
My Brit taste does definitely carry over into music as well, though I suspect that there may be something of a generational gap betwixt us. Lately, I’ve been a fan of Delays, Long-View, and The Magic Numbers. Americans may have invented the blues and jazz that rock is built upon, but the Brits have turned out some of the best pop rock in the history of the genre.
We really need a music sub-blog. All I want for Christmas, Lynn…
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#56: Almost every point you make about Christians are a caricature of the real thing.
Almost? Which ones is caricature?
Religious leaders refusing to offer sacrament? See John Kerry.
Pat Buchanon has publicly stated that Iraq has been the greatest disaster for this country in his lifetime?
He has said it over and over again. It is no secret.
Republicans will accuse them of being unpatriotic and on the side of the radicals?
This is certainly one of the reasons the Democrats have been so ineffective. Their patriotism repeatedly questioned, even on the house floor.
I have worked with Christians who say flat out that scientists have been carving pretend bones out of rock and presenting them as “fossils”.
This is no joke and certainly no more strange than saying dinosaurs rode on the ark. Bible writers had no knowledge of dinosaurs.
The Christian religions split from Judaism.
Jesus didn’t ask the thief to beg forgiveness, only to accept him as the Son of God.
It never says in the Bible that the children of Adam and Eve wed each other because the Church looked down on incest.
They attempt to put it into public schools.
A moment of silence? Pledging to God? These are a blatant attempt to put religion in public schools.
Adding “supernatural” to science. This is what the recent Dover court case was all about. Irreducible complexity? ID?
Today is different than in the past. Our treasury is bankrupt. We are losing our technological edge. Our military is stretched. Our infrastructure is falling apart. I have never seen our country this split. Our government is torturing. All of this is with the involvement of the religious.
All from Bush, who was elected by near total support from the evangelicals whose main goal was to write discrimination into our constitution against their own children (See Cheney, Keyes, Shafley). They are really disappointed that Bush didn’t follow through with their plan to support discrimination against Americans who have committed no crime.
It has been suggested on this site that without religion, there are no morals that matter. This has been suggested over and over again.
Where is the exaggeration? Where is the caricature? What part is wrong or a misrepresentation?
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R Dean:
Even as you ask what is caricature, you know that this is a caricature. Churches refusing the sacraments to those who are not following Christian standards has nothing to do with politics; that’s a church issue. (John Kerry isn’t making that decision.)
You said earlier that those on the cross were presented as only thieves, not murderers, lest it look like God was forgiving murderers. Guess what? He does forgive murderers, and makes no secret of it!! The apostle Paul, for just one example. KIng David. I could add more.
The Bible doesn’t hide its people’s sins. Yes, Adam and Eve’s children married each other. But that wasn’t illegal or immoral. It simply wasn’t an issue. God made all people out of one man, so of course they had to marry siblings. But later in Scripture we see incest forbidden, and we see it shown in real stories. If you think the Bible hides people’s ugliness, you haven’t read it.
And yes, many of us do believe the Bible stories are accurate. Many of us also believe that scientists go to all kinds of extremes to avoid admitting that creation has God’s fingerprints all over it. We truly aren’t the ones who are deceiving ourselves here.
That doesn’t mean all science is worthless; but evolution isn’t science–it’s a philosophical statement, a guess about history. History simply doesn’t fall under science. We don’t look to science to tell us about George Washington, nor do we look to science to tell us about the origins of the earth. By their own admission, they cannot do that. (Notice that evolution is being very careful to distance itself from origins these days.) So we can disagree about the origin of the universe and still be excited about science. I think you’ll find many Christians in that camp–count me in.
Taking one extreme case of anything and making it look like an average representation is caricature. You know you’re doing it, and so do we. It’s not worth “arguing” with you; you’re on this site only to repeat lies. But there might be others reading this who don’t know they’re lies, and so I might as well answer some of this one more time.
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#69: Churches refusing the sacraments to those who are not following Christian standards has nothing to do with politics
Why do you say that? It has everything to do with politics. Religious leaders want politicians to vote a certain way regardless of what the voters want. That is injecting religion directly into politics. Duh!!
#69: He does forgive murderers, and makes no secret of it!!
I never said he didn’t. Is it so difficult to understand a simple sentence? “Jesus didn’t ask the thief to beg forgiveness, only to accept him as the Son of God.”
Don’t you get it? You only have to accept Jesus to get into heaven. Following the rules has nothing to do with it. These other two didn’t follow any rules and yet one of them goes directly to heaven, do not pass go, do not collect two hundred dollars. That means the discrimination the Christians practice against their own children have no effect on their getting into heaven.
#69: God made all people out of one man, so of course they had to marry siblings.
Your guessing, you don’t know that. How many daughters did Adam and Eve have?
#69: but evolution isn’t science–it’s a philosophical statement,
Scientists that create vehicles that go to other planets and cure disease. Everything you touch, eat, wear, ride in, everything, at some point was either invented or improved by a scientist. Every reputable scientist in the world says evolution is a fact and yet some people who refuse knowledge know scientists are wrong about this ONE thing. People who are only slightly represented IN science decide what IS science. Rich.
#69: you’re on this site only to repeat lies
I’m not lying about anything and you know it.
Here is an interesting site about the history of the Bible. I mean, the real history with documents and dates and names and places.
http://www.history.com/search.do?searchText=about+the+bible
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RDean,
My point about the sacraments is you can’t say politicians are mixing religion and politics. Now, personally I don’t think it’s wrong to do so. But having their pastors and priests speak out isn’t the politicians’ doing. I mean, honestly, what’s the “answer” to this? John Kerry can’t tell his pastor to shut up, and legally anyone is allowed to tell anyone else he’s in sin. I honestly don’t get your gripe here. Are you saying religious people shouldn’t be in politics because their pastors might comment on something? Doesn’t make sense. The boss or next-door neighbor of a non-religious person might comment; is it only religious people who are required to shut up?
No, I’m not “guessing” that Adam and Eve’s children married siblings. We don’t know how many daughters Adam and Eve had, just that they had “sons and daughters.” I’m guessing they had a very large number. But as to guessing, no; if all humans are descended from Adam, there was no one else that their sons could have married–their sisters or their mother! I’m not “guessing”; I’m presenting the only logical possibility, based on my belief that what we are told in Scripture (that all humans are from Addam) is true.
As to forgiving murderers, I wasn’t commenting on the same post, and wasn’t pretending to. I didn’t scroll back to the earlier comment, about the thieves on the cross probably being more than just thieves but the Bible writers not wanting to admit they were murderers because then we’d see murderers can be forgiven. I thought that comment was yours, and was simply answering it at the same time, but maybe it wasn’t yours.
I’ve studied the history of the Bible already, but thank you.
I have no problem with scientists or with inventors. But the origin of the universe isn’t science. That’s all I’m saying. We can’t recreate it or test it, and that’s what science requires. By definition, then, evolution is not science, whether or not scientists believe it. (You won’t suddenly start thinking the Bible is “science” if the majority of scientists believe in it, will you?)
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The Santa Clause.
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#71: Now, personally I don’t think it’s wrong to do so.
So, a politician is elected by Hindus and gays and Muslims. Because the politician isn’t taking the “Christian” viewpoint, he is being denied his sacraments. So, what’s his choice, get another living or go against the people that voted him into office? What kind of choice is that? There is a reason that only a few of the commandments are laws.
When Christians try to legislate their religion and turn it into laws, then the entire country suffers. Christians are arrogant and think they are so darn “moral”. They are myopic and can’t see anything else. This is why the founders wrote limits to religious power into the constitution. Why don’t you just trust the founders? They lived way more recent than thousands of years ago?
Keep Christian laws for Christians, but why force it on innocent people that don’t believe in mysticism and the occult? This is the bottom line. Many people don’t believe in mysticism and the occult. That’s ghosts and spirits and demons and angels and miracles and supernatural powers.
#71: presenting the only logical possibility
No, faith has nothing to do with logic. Otherwise, no one would believe in it. Faith is believing in the arcane beyond all reason. Belief without proof. You can say the Bible is proof or many people believe and that’s proof. But that is most certainly not proof.
#71: But the origin of the universe isn’t science.
Why is it so difficult for Christians to understand the most explanation of evolution? Is there like a mental block there? Few have the capacity to understand? Even a hardcore Christian like Francis Collins says there is overwhelming proof of evolution. It’s like a determined ignorance. With great patience, I will say this. Evolution doesn’t state the “origin” of the universe. When it is identified as, “origin of the species”, it is not saying the beginning, but how one species, over time, developed from another species. Unlike those that believe in invisible, spirit beings, science demands proof and doesn’t pretend to already “know everything”.
There is a site put together by PBS that explains this with transitional forms, debunking “irreducible complexity” and other made up scenarios by the believers of the supernatural. I wish that those that subscribe to the “unseen” and “unknowable” would just say, “I don’t care how much evidence there is for things that exist in this plane of existence, if they disagree with my ideas of reality, I will refuse to believe they exist, period.” I would enjoy the honesty.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/
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