Science of good and evil
People pricked up their ears last December when actor Will Smith said Hitler probably considered himself a good person. Smith raised an age-old question that the “science of the moral sense” tries to answer: What is morality, and how should it affect our actions?
In a meaty article for the New York Times, Harvard professor Steven Pinker says the science of morality uses psychology, neuroscience and evolutionary biology to explain our reactions to certain moral actions.
Pinker first explains the difference between a moralization and an opinion: 1) People see morality as universal; 2) People say immoral people deserve to be punished. Modern moralizations are always in flux. Smoking (once a lifestyle choice) has become a moral issue, and homosexuality (once a moral issue) has become a lifestyle choice.
How do we decide what’s moral and what’s not? Neuroscience says our brain plays a role. People with certain types of brain damage sometimes display moral callousness. When we make a non-utilitarian decision, it’s an emotional impulse triumphing over our rational side.
Do we have an innate moral sense? Pinker says we seem to know innately that we shouldn’t harm others and that we should practice fairness, preserve community, respect authority and guard purity. We prioritize these values differently, leading to our cultural and political divides.
How did we get this moral sense? Pinker says evolutionary biology explains it. Rhesus monkeys show the same reluctance to harm each other. We see respect for authority in the pecking order of the animal kingdom. Community protects our survival.
So is morality objective or a figment of our imagination? Pinker says evolutionary biology doesn’t debunk morality. He discounts God as a source for morality and says perhaps moral truths are like mathematical truths – objective, there for us to discover.
Does the science of morality kill morality dissecting it? Pinker says no; it actually advances morality “by allowing us to see through the illusions that evolution and culture have saddled us with and to focus on goals we can share and defend.”




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back to top38 Comments to “Science of good and evil”
In response to the question “Is morality objective or a figment of our imagination?,” I disagree with the conclusions offered in this commentary. This article concludes without a lot of information to back it up that “evolutionary biology explains it.” Rhesus monkeys show the same reluctance to harm each other.” Another quote from Pinker says that morality is “perhaps like mathematical truths–objective, there for us to discover.” If that is the case, then morality could differ from person to person depending on how they interpret the “truth” they discover. Morality is not like a mathematical equation where there is no room for differing opinions. Rather moral truths have been argued about since the beginning of time. Someone may think that it’s alright to kill someone if they feel like it. That is his morality, and no one could deny him his “personal truth.” Morality comes from one source, and that is God. Without the absolute morality given us by God, we haven’t got a leg to stand on.
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Smoking (once a lifestyle choice) has become a moral issue, and homosexuality (once a moral issue) has become a lifestyle choice
It’s too difficult to have a debate or even a conversation with someone that says something so dumb.
Who on earth would ever CHOOSE to be gay????
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Rosiebelle: If you could prevent the Holocaust by murdering Hitler in 1937, would you think that was morally wrong due to “God’s absolute morality?”
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No, I would use the power I had to try and prevent the Holocaust just as world leaders did at the time. There are two kinds of war–just wars and unjust wars. God has given man the right to use his power to combat and win just wars. In your example, fighting the Holocaust would be right because it was certainly an unjust war.
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So you would wage a war costing millions of lives and not save the six million Jews who died, rather than kill the one person most responsible and maybe spare those millions?
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No, you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I definitely would have killed Hitler and avoid the Holocaust. That is something we are permitted to do when earthly civil authorities begin to wage unjust wars. Isn’t that what Hitler was doing? But how could we have known that he would do such things in time enough to have taken him out? We did the same thing with Saddam Hussein–that is, tried to kill him early on, but that didn’t work out either. I’m not trying to say that common sense is not part of the knowledge God gave us the ability to use. You make me out to be some kind of nutcase! I’m really not!
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RosieBelle: So the “absolute morality” you spoke of in #1 is not so absolute after all. There are cases where murder is the right thing to do, such as, to prevent a much greater evil from taking place.
No, I don’t think you’re a nutcase. I’m just asking you to examine logically the things you believe. If there are absolute moral truths, then they would have no exceptions. “Thou shalt not murder” sounds pretty absolute, but it turns out there are some cases where we can and should make exceptions.
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People also lie to save others from persecution. If bearing false witness were absolutely wrong, then wouldn’t we be inclined to frown upon the people in Nazi Germany who sheltered Jews in their basements by lying to the authorities?
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#2: RDEAN, you raise an interesting question at the end of your post. Your question: Who on earth would ever CHOOSE to be gay????, is actually more simple to answer than most folks think. The comment you started your post with makes a ton of sense, so congrats on that. Homosexuality IS a lifestyle choice. I kinda think it’s still a moral issue at the same time. Oh, and while we’re on the subject of calling something correctly, the word “gay” actually means happy. If someone means homosexual, then say homosexual.
Homosexuals are people who have made an un-natural lifestyle choice to have a physical relation with a person of same gender. Sorry, people were NOT born that way. To believe that people have a “gay gene” is an outright foolish lie.
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#8
Flaming Icarus,
Bearing false witness is lying, but not all lying is bearing false witness as I understand the term. A “false witness” in court lies in order to pervert justice, either to keep the guilty from being punished or cause the innocent to be punished. Neither of those is happening in the case of lying to keep Nazis from finding hidden Jews.
There are cases in the Bible where people who lied in similar types of situations are praised, such as the Hebrew midwives, who lied to save babies’ lives. The absolute prohibition is on false witness but not on lying.
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RDEAN,
Homosexuality IS a lifestyle choice.
After all, homosexuals are human beings, not automotons, robots or chemical blobs whose behavior and attitudes are just genetic or biological impusles (especially in matters of who and how to love others).
To say that homosexuality is not even a choice is, in my view, dehumanizing.
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Pauline,
I see your point and it does make sense.
But I also see it as problematic because it’s based on our judgement that X authority (e.g. Nazis) were unjust, and it’s ok to lie to people that we consider unjust. But the German authorities felt entirely justified and legally sanctioned to act as they did, so if the public lie to their authorities they would see it as a perversion of justice, and could call it “false witness”.
I think similar issues come up with murder (especially in war time) or genocide (in the OT) etc.
Basically, the side that considers itself to be serving the “just cause” or fighting the “just war”, believes that it has the mandate to use the language that absolves it of any transgressions.
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Flaming Icarus,
Yes, people will find ways to justify doing wrong. Dealing with injustice is always going to be problematic.
I would be very cautious in deciding that deceit was justified in a given situation – even if only for pragmatic reasons. It is difficult to lie convincingly (I’m lousy at it myself), especially over a period of time as it because easier for someone to spot inconsistencies or factual errors.
If I find myself easily justifying behavior based on the situation, I am probably headed for trouble – in a moral sense. I think it should always be a hard decision to make to lie – or to kill – even if I conclude it is justified.
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Is my dental hygenist immoral? Seems she always tries to hurt me. Evolution is immoral so how can it prove morality? Go back and read you Descarte.
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Pauline #13,
No disagreement here!
(And I’m a lousy liar too)
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SteveG on #7. . .
In the beginning before sin entered the world, the absolute law of God existed and man was able to keep it perfectly. There were no exceptions. However, that ideal situation didn’t last. Now there is sin everywhere, and the absolute law of God simply cannot be kept no matter what (except in the case of Christ). When the Lord gave His 10 commandments to Moses on Mount Sinai, he knew that his people could never keep them, but they did serve 3 specific purposes: 1) They act as a mirror to show us our sin, 2) they serve as a guide in our lives, and 3) they serve as a curb in that external discipline and decency are maintained and gross outbursts of sin are repressed. And, they do accomplish these purposes. But the absoluteness of the law after sin was diminished because of sin. Even though the law be absolute, we cannot keep it in a world of sin. So, yes, there are times when there are exceptions, but those exceptions are given to us by God. For instance, God allows capital punishment, he tells us to obey civil authorities, he allows just wars, and in the case of Rahab when Joshua attacked Jericho and lied to the enemy about which direction God’s people had gone, these things are exceptions to the law but allowed by God. So to answer your question, yes–in this present world there are exceptions to the absolute law of God.
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#11: To say that homosexuality is not even a choice is, in my view, dehumanizing.
Wow, you are able to “choose” who you could be attracted to? Amazing. How do you turn that on and off? If you could put it in a book, you would make millions. Please share the secret.
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#17:
Wow, you are able to “choose” who you could be attracted to? Amazing. How do you turn that on and off? If you could put it in a book, you would make millions. Please share the secret.
Yeah, it’s called being faithful to what I believe is right and keeping my marriage vows.
I choose to stay married to my husband and we both choose not to act on attraction to others. It is a choice we have made for 30 years. If heterosexuals can do it, homosexuals can do it, too.
My unmarried heterosexual daughters both choose to remain celibate until marriage (24 and 27). Yeah, they would like to find someone to marry, but they understand that until they do, they will not settle for less.
Homosexuals aren’t the only ones with hard choices. Stop beating the same old drum.
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#18:
The point isn’t the choice to remain celibate or the choice to remain faithful.
That’s all irrelevant to the fact that you’ve probably not had to make the conscious decision to be attracted to members of the opposite sex. Or have you?
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But…that’s not really what this thread is about (I don’t think it is, anyway).
I find the moral conversation difficult to engage in sometimes because there isn’t even a universal understanding of what evil is. Non-believers usually get lumped in as wishy-washy relativists, but I think that the reality is not so simple.
I, for one, don’t ascribe a moral value to a natural disaster, yet I know some people consider hurricanes and tsunamis to be “evil”. Personally I think “evil” requires an ill intent, an active disregard for others or at the very least an inability to conceive of (or care about) the widespread damage one’s actions cause.
And since I don’t believe a tornado is even capable of intent (other than maybe to correct an imbalance in the atmospheric pressure/temperature) it could hardly be described as “evil”.
That’s just my 2 cents. Any thoughts?
(And I’m consciously trying to steer this thread away from that regular issue that seems to be taking root).
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AnneliseFrench at #17: I choose to stay married to my husband and we both choose not to act on attraction to others. It is a choice we have made for 30 years. If heterosexuals can do it, homosexuals can do it, too.
Um … well, no. You’re not talking here about being attracted to the same sex. Fidelity within a marriage means choosing to commit to one person from among the pool of people you might be attracted to.
I am convinced that homosexuality is just like left-handedness or red-hairedness … a rare but natural condition.
Left-handed people can learn to write with their right hands, and red-haired people can dye it brown, but in either case they’re covering up their nature, not truly changing it.
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Flaming Icarus at #20: I find the moral conversation difficult to engage in sometimes because there isn’t even a universal understanding of what evil is. Non-believers usually get lumped in as wishy-washy relativists, but I think that the reality is not so simple.
That’s a good observation. Many Christians have a notion that the choice is between their particular moral code or no morals at all. Most non-believers (and most liberal Christians, who tend to have the same points of disagreement with conservative Christians as non-believers do) have a very strong sense of right and wrong. It just doesn’t always line up with the view of conservatives. (There is some overlap, but there are some sharp differences too.)
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#18: I choose to stay married to my husband and we both choose not to act on attraction to others.
You have confused me. Are you saying that both you and your husband are gay but have decided to stay together?
Or,
Are you saying that straight and gays should marry each other? It didn’t work with Ted Haggard or Larry Craig. I would never want my daughter or sister to marry a gay. How sad.
Or,
Are you saying that gays should spend their entire lives alone and without romantic love? They should spend their entire lives without the loving hand of another because of your religion?
What if they don’t believe in mysticism or the occult? You believe it’s ok to force your supernatural beliefs on others? That it’s the “moral” thing to do?
If they don’t subscribe to your “mystical” beliefs, they should be forced to? Is that moral? How will their being in love affect you? Do you know any?
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How will their being in love affect you?
The nail has been hit on the head.
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Are you saying that gays should spend their entire lives alone and without romantic love?
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.
My daughters, if no one chooses to marry them, will have the same life. Is that so awful?
Is that what they would have wanted? No, they would rather find someone, just like everyone does, regardless of sexuality. Being homosexual or heterosexual doesn’t change the desires of the heart for belonging to someone. They would have an easier time finding someone if they lowered their standards- anyone can find someone to hook up with these days if you aren’t too picky.
As a married woman, I continue to guard my heart and not let myself be attracted to another man if I am going to honor my marriage vows and love my husband as I promised. Just because someone is married doesn’t mean there will never be another person that is attractive to them. You still have to choose.
If I can live by that choice, to exclude all those that attract me, why can’t homosexuals do the same as single people? You guys make it sound like it is an impossible and undesirable thing that you might have to live life as a single person.
I am talking about having hard choices to make and living above the outcome you didn’t want.
Spending your life loving someone doesn’t have to include marriage- it doesn’t have to be sexually fulfilled to be meaningful.
Life has meaning outside of sex, no matter how loud society says otherwise.
Marriage doesn’t solve the problem of loneliness.
There are lots of lonely married people.
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Question for those of you who might know?
In a homosexual relationship, do the partners take on male/female roles sexually?
Is it true that one of them imitates the female and the other the male?
In my reading and observations, I have seen that this occurs in homosexual relationships.
I am wondering if this is true and why.
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#25: If I can live by that choice, to exclude all those that attract me, why can’t homosexuals do the same as single people? You guys make it sound like it is an impossible and undesirable thing that you might have to live life as a single person.
You have a husband. You have that partner. It is easier (not always easy, but easier) to discard other attractions when you already have your life partner.
What you’re suggesting is that people who are homosexual should just as easily be able to turn away all attractions and have no one.
You mention the possibility of your daughters never marrying. That is true. But they will always have the possibility of it. You would have homosexuals deny themselves even that possibility, to suit your narrow moral views.
I believe you are well-meaning, but I also believe you are naively suggesting that certain people should never seek to love and be loved in a romantic/sexual way just because of who they are. That is really, really cruel, even if you don’t intend it to be.
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It’s beyone cruel, it’s immoral.
#26: In a homosexual relationship, do the partners take on male/female roles sexually?
You don’t know? So, you feel comfortable judging people that you know nothing about? Also immoral.
I know a married couple where the wife uses a dildo on her husband. Hey, it’s NOT me. I don’t swing that way. So, is she the he and he the she????
When you ask questions like that, it make one wonder if you know what love is? It’s not all about the naughty bits.
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My daughters, if no one chooses to marry them, will have the same life. Is that so awful?
Is that what they would have wanted? No, they would rather find someone, just like everyone does, regardless of sexuality.
(I tried to stay away from this argument, but I’m weak…)
Annelise,
Your daughters have the opportunity and your blessing to try, try, try, attempt, stumble, try and try again to find their life partner. If they fail, then they fail. At least they had the opportunity to find success.
On the other hand, you’re saying that homosexuals should not even be allowed to try. Do not pass “Go”, do not collect $200, go straight to “Fail”.
You simply cannot draw a parallel between your daughters’ lives and the lives you are advocating for homosexuals.
For shame.
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Marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled. But fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
Hebrews 13:4
For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise, also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, MEN with MEN committing what is SHAMEFUL, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
Romans 2:26
For shame….
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So, you feel comfortable judging people that you know nothing about? Also immoral.
Are you being immoral by judging me for judging them?
I believe you are well-meaning, but I also believe you are naively suggesting that certain people should never seek to love and be loved in a romantic/sexual way just because of who they are. That is really, really cruel, even if you don’t intend it to be.
You can be loved and love without sex ever being a part of the picture.
Love doesn’t always have to include sex.
Sex isn’t always about love, either.
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Pinker first explains the difference between a moralization and an opinion: 1) People see morality as universal; . . .
That’s a rather narrow opinion. What about the other half of humanity whose morals are un-universal, a.k.a. relative? Even though everyone is moral, they are either moralists or unmoralists. Unmoralists say (in a tone devoid of moral pronouncement) that morality doesn’t exist. Everything beyond this point excludes all relativists.
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You can be loved and love without sex ever being a part of the picture.
Love doesn’t always have to include sex.
Sex isn’t always about love, either.
Both true but also both completely irrelevant here.
What gives you the right to decide what other can and can’t do?
And how does it hurt you?
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She thinks she speaks for God. Boy, is she in for a rude awakening.
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Annelise,
I have no idea what you’re on about in post 31.
Just stop comparing your daughters to homosexuals, that’s all I’m saying.
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It’s the Romans again!
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I swear you people think Jesus was born in Kansas.
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37-I would like to know more about Kansas…
14-Same thing here, I just chose to stay away…
31-”So, you feel comfortable judging people that you know nothing about? Also immoral.”
“Are you being immoral by judging me for judging them?” Thank you for pointing this out. It was well worded. I would love to write an entire book on this subject alone. The Art of the Question, by Goldberg, is a great starting place.
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