Comments on: The hopeful monster

By: ASaltyDog

ASaltyDog — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 06:45:27 +0000

Erasmus, finally, in extra time, amongst your usual throwaway slogans I find something worthwhile: I love bluegrass too. Have a nice day.

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By: Erasmus

Erasmus — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 03:25:23 +0000

I don’t see why anyone would consider letting someone who stole the first word have the last word.

All that Saul has done here is fundamentally beg the question of why anyone should consider his viewpoint. He has been unable to offer any positive evidence for his view, except for convoluted logical arguments that violate his own assumptions.

That said, Saul’s knowledge of 70s-80s crappy rock is noteworthy. I will be more impressed when he discusses Don Reno and the effect of WW2 on the ultimate progression of bluegrass music. That, or to deal with the fact that his ontology means that one can never know if the lights will come on or the keys will drop into the parking lot. Either one.

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By: SteveG

SteveG — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 00:48:53 +0000

shh… we’re letting him have the last word.

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By: Spinoza

Spinoza — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 00:23:09 +0000

p.s. I suppose I wouldn’t be averse to identifying with some of the more reasonable forms of Christianity, and I wouldn’t feel terribly out of place at a UCC, Anglican, Congregational, or even some orthodox churches, but the nonsense and unethical beliefs of fundy “Christians” like Ott or Salty has convinced me that it’s better to eschew all identity with the mess that has become American Christianity.

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By: Spinoza

Spinoza — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 00:18:20 +0000

SaltyTaliban- So Spinoza, let me guess, you are a Christian, right?

No, I am not!

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By: ASaltyDog

ASaltyDog — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:49:37 +0000

Please, let me have the last word.

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By: SteveG

SteveG — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:33:43 +0000

… and the defeated, fleeing adversary fires one final impotent shot harmlessly into the sky.

Safe travels.

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By: ASaltyDog

ASaltyDog — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:04:45 +0000

Steve, thanks for showing at the last minute that Arminian Methodism is incoherent. Bye bye.

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By: SteveG

SteveG — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 16:43:10 +0000

E.D Ott at #594: Certainly, Erasmus and many others – remember the quantity! – will swim away and give God the finger. For His consistency, for His reliability, for His warning, for His glory, for HIS LOVE. Do you now understand the concept of Original Sin? Do you now understand that “because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed”? (Romans 2:5)

As are you, Ott.

I am sure you take that verse to refer to eternal damnation. It does not. If it does, then the whole thought (2:1-11) is teaching salvation by works, as Paul says, God will give to each person according to what he has done. If you do good you get the reward, but if you do evil you get the punishment.

Certainly Paul did not believe salvation came by works and neither do Christians. So that cannot be what this passage is about.

(To obliquely answer your main question, I am not worried about my soul.)

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By: SteveG

SteveG — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 16:33:25 +0000

ASD at #593: Steve, I won’t go through the Bible here. There are billions of Reformed Christian websites providing answers to this kind of objections. Farewell.

Funny how you suddenly don’t have a flood of words for me.

Your problem is this: If God wills to save everyone but can’t, God is not all-powerful.

If God doesn’t will to save everyone, God is not all-loving.

But the Bible says God is both all-powerful and all-loving.

The book of Job uses the pot/potter analogy in a rhetorical question from God. The entire rest of the Bible makes it clear that that isn’t how God actually feels.

Now I realize your mind has been corrupted by Reformed Theology, the idea that God calls only some to repentance. You have to read Scripture through the filter of your tradition, not for what Scripture actually, plainly says. I ask you to seriously consider why you believe that any man no matter how learned has any right to put limits on God’s grace.

My own Methodist background is, of course, much more Arminian in flavor, which may explain a lot of our fundamental disagreement even in concept. I grew up learning that grace was available to all and dependent only on our choice … not God’s choice to call or predestine us. Jesus said “If I am lifted up, I will draw all men to me.” Nor “I will draw a small number of predestined men to me.”

I’m sure you can explain that one away too.

You are still in your spins.

And you are still checkmated. Your dogs have been sent fleeing by my bear and you are left uncomprehending how your day at the beach could suddenly go so wrong.

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