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	<title>Comments on: Christian schools vs. conveyor belts</title>
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		<title>By: Harris</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/01/31/christian-schools-vs-conveyor-belts/comment-page-1/#comment-270986</link>
		<dc:creator>Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 01:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Over the long-run I&#039;m not so sure that Olasky&#039;s point here, is true:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;Christian schools that are up against top-flight public schools are likely to lose, because they typically don&#8217;t have as many bananas to offer.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Fee-based systems often end up putting the burden on the parent or family, rather than resting the responsibility for education on the whole (Christian) community.  The result is that tuition then becomes a kind of screen, and school slowly migrates up the economic ladder, this despite what its founders or leaders desire.  Bills must be paid, etc.  

When we couple this upward price push with a narrower or more specialized curriculum (e.g. liberal arts, no shop) the result is also a drift to elitism, where the schools reflect more a social class than that of religious commitment.  

Having said that, Olasky also goes on to highlight what the best Christian schools do so well, in terms of humanizing the classroom.  In some instances one will also find similar attention to the giving and receiving in some charter and specialized schools -- our daughter had a wonderful experience in the Montessori program offered by our local PS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over the long-run I&#8217;m not so sure that Olasky&#8217;s point here, is true:</p>
<blockquote><p><i>Christian schools that are up against top-flight public schools are likely to lose, because they typically don&#8217;t have as many bananas to offer.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Fee-based systems often end up putting the burden on the parent or family, rather than resting the responsibility for education on the whole (Christian) community.  The result is that tuition then becomes a kind of screen, and school slowly migrates up the economic ladder, this despite what its founders or leaders desire.  Bills must be paid, etc.  </p>
<p>When we couple this upward price push with a narrower or more specialized curriculum (e.g. liberal arts, no shop) the result is also a drift to elitism, where the schools reflect more a social class than that of religious commitment.  </p>
<p>Having said that, Olasky also goes on to highlight what the best Christian schools do so well, in terms of humanizing the classroom.  In some instances one will also find similar attention to the giving and receiving in some charter and specialized schools &#8212; our daughter had a wonderful experience in the Montessori program offered by our local PS.
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		<title>By: adios</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/01/31/christian-schools-vs-conveyor-belts/comment-page-1/#comment-269068</link>
		<dc:creator>adios</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 19:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Rdean,

My atheist dad tried that with diasterous results. After the majority of his adult children made their own decisions and became Christians he wishes he and the school system had done a little more indoctrination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rdean,</p>
<p>My atheist dad tried that with diasterous results. After the majority of his adult children made their own decisions and became Christians he wishes he and the school system had done a little more indoctrination.
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		<title>By: hrw</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/01/31/christian-schools-vs-conveyor-belts/comment-page-1/#comment-269038</link>
		<dc:creator>hrw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 18:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I actually agree with something Olasky wrote or is it actually Postman. 

&lt;i&gt;They try to turn kids into happy chimpanzees, capable and desirous of following the rules, grinning and gobbling down the bananas offered as rewards.&lt;/i&gt;

Any good cultural leftist will agree with this viewing the present education system set up in the late 18thC as a bourgeois invention. Essentially the school&#039;s purpose is to turn everyone into good bourgeois puppets. That being said, many of the actions and routines which create good bourgeois kids are essentially methods of control. And if an  individual is not immersed in the bourgeois culture as a child, he/she will have a difficulty time in the larger world later. 

#3 
Sawgunner, you note a continual gripe of many teachers -- too many reasons for principals to go off site. Occasionally I worked at a school where this was seen as beneficial as the staff preferred the principal as far away as possible. Even now, behaviour improves when the students are informed the principal is out of the building and left the gym teacher in charge. 

Reg, 
The problem with private parent controlled schools is that the confusing of interests. Its hard for the principal to be effective if the behaviourally impaired child is the offspring of the chair of the school board. 

&lt;i&gt;Many schools try to keep students moving on conveyor belts to good careers.&lt;/i&gt;

In reality, some children can&#039;t get on the conveyor belt and others jump off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually agree with something Olasky wrote or is it actually Postman. </p>
<p><i>They try to turn kids into happy chimpanzees, capable and desirous of following the rules, grinning and gobbling down the bananas offered as rewards.</i></p>
<p>Any good cultural leftist will agree with this viewing the present education system set up in the late 18thC as a bourgeois invention. Essentially the school&#8217;s purpose is to turn everyone into good bourgeois puppets. That being said, many of the actions and routines which create good bourgeois kids are essentially methods of control. And if an  individual is not immersed in the bourgeois culture as a child, he/she will have a difficulty time in the larger world later. </p>
<p>#3<br />
Sawgunner, you note a continual gripe of many teachers &#8212; too many reasons for principals to go off site. Occasionally I worked at a school where this was seen as beneficial as the staff preferred the principal as far away as possible. Even now, behaviour improves when the students are informed the principal is out of the building and left the gym teacher in charge. </p>
<p>Reg,<br />
The problem with private parent controlled schools is that the confusing of interests. Its hard for the principal to be effective if the behaviourally impaired child is the offspring of the chair of the school board. </p>
<p><i>Many schools try to keep students moving on conveyor belts to good careers.</i></p>
<p>In reality, some children can&#8217;t get on the conveyor belt and others jump off.
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		<title>By: rdean</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/01/31/christian-schools-vs-conveyor-belts/comment-page-1/#comment-269034</link>
		<dc:creator>rdean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 17:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My feeling is that schools should only teach about the real world and leave the occult and supernatural until a child grows up enough to make their own decisions whether or not to believe in Noah&#039;s Ark and the Garden of Eden.  That way, you can&#039;t say they have been &quot;indoctrinated&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My feeling is that schools should only teach about the real world and leave the occult and supernatural until a child grows up enough to make their own decisions whether or not to believe in Noah&#8217;s Ark and the Garden of Eden.  That way, you can&#8217;t say they have been &#8220;indoctrinated&#8221;.
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		<title>By: Reg</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/01/31/christian-schools-vs-conveyor-belts/comment-page-1/#comment-268911</link>
		<dc:creator>Reg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 08:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As a follow up to my previous comments, I have to say that delight directed learning (Gregg Haris--The Home Schooling Seminar) in the younger years is a key to reaching young peoples&#039; hearts for godly living in adulthood.  

My first two children were home schooled from ages 4-12.  During those early years, their focus was not on classroom distractions, but on books, 200 feet of book shelving we had in our school room and the multitude of outdoor activities that were theirs for the taking.  They were free to read and find what interested them as individuals. Music lessons also played a role, even I was studying voice at that time, and arranging music, so there was an adult example as well. 

I was not able to give this same focus to my younger two children, so am still looking for ways to connect with them so that they can find their  interests.  They have been saddled with classroom junk.  We work with our lives where God has put us.

In either case, working along side their parent/parents, gives them the experiential link to adulthood, and servanthood, as is being suggested in this article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a follow up to my previous comments, I have to say that delight directed learning (Gregg Haris&#8211;The Home Schooling Seminar) in the younger years is a key to reaching young peoples&#8217; hearts for godly living in adulthood.  </p>
<p>My first two children were home schooled from ages 4-12.  During those early years, their focus was not on classroom distractions, but on books, 200 feet of book shelving we had in our school room and the multitude of outdoor activities that were theirs for the taking.  They were free to read and find what interested them as individuals. Music lessons also played a role, even I was studying voice at that time, and arranging music, so there was an adult example as well. </p>
<p>I was not able to give this same focus to my younger two children, so am still looking for ways to connect with them so that they can find their  interests.  They have been saddled with classroom junk.  We work with our lives where God has put us.</p>
<p>In either case, working along side their parent/parents, gives them the experiential link to adulthood, and servanthood, as is being suggested in this article.
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		<title>By: Cheryl D.</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/01/31/christian-schools-vs-conveyor-belts/comment-page-1/#comment-268631</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sawgunner, I&#039;ve read him, several books (&lt;i&gt;Amusing Ourselves to Death&lt;/i&gt; more than once). A friend heard him speak and got me an autographed copy of a title I didn&#039;t yet have (&lt;i&gt;The End of Education&lt;/i&gt;, I think--not one of his better books).

He&#039;s profound, and gives Christians some wonderful challenges in &lt;i&gt;Amusing Ourselves to Death&lt;/i&gt; (though he was not a believer himself).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sawgunner, I&#8217;ve read him, several books (<i>Amusing Ourselves to Death</i> more than once). A friend heard him speak and got me an autographed copy of a title I didn&#8217;t yet have (<i>The End of Education</i>, I think&#8211;not one of his better books).</p>
<p>He&#8217;s profound, and gives Christians some wonderful challenges in <i>Amusing Ourselves to Death</i> (though he was not a believer himself).
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		<title>By: Reg</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/01/31/christian-schools-vs-conveyor-belts/comment-page-1/#comment-268625</link>
		<dc:creator>Reg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>At our denominationally oriented church school, where the principal teaches at least half the day, the teachers&#039; input/attitude towards discipline issues is really lacking.  If there is bullying going on, the whole class gets the lecture, which, after watching this for many years, I am convinced that the bully gets reinforced in his behavior since he is never confronted.  Junior high aged kids need one-on-one.  They can&#039;t be treated like elementary students.  

We had an ongoing issue with 6th grade boys.  I finally got on the phone one night with a mom and we couldn&#039;t solve it, so she put her son with me.  I find that kids will admit to anything but the words that come out of their own mouths.

This next is after many tears and weeks of frustration.

&quot;Did you say that our family is poor?&quot;
&quot;No.&quot;  Did you ever hear ANYONE ever talk like that to my son?&quot;
&quot;No.&quot;  
&quot;Did you ever hear anyone talk like  that to anyone at school?&quot;
&quot;Yes&quot;
I told him that when someone talks like that to you, it really hurts.  Guess what?  He grew up a little that night.  The two get along now.  There is more to it than just saying &quot;you all need to get along with each other.&quot;

In a Quaker school, grades 6 on down, there was a conflict resolution program for all students and the principal only taught music.  This worked really well.

I find that the small private school works well for most of my children until about 6th grade.  Then they need a bigger environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At our denominationally oriented church school, where the principal teaches at least half the day, the teachers&#8217; input/attitude towards discipline issues is really lacking.  If there is bullying going on, the whole class gets the lecture, which, after watching this for many years, I am convinced that the bully gets reinforced in his behavior since he is never confronted.  Junior high aged kids need one-on-one.  They can&#8217;t be treated like elementary students.  </p>
<p>We had an ongoing issue with 6th grade boys.  I finally got on the phone one night with a mom and we couldn&#8217;t solve it, so she put her son with me.  I find that kids will admit to anything but the words that come out of their own mouths.</p>
<p>This next is after many tears and weeks of frustration.</p>
<p>&#8220;Did you say that our family is poor?&#8221;<br />
&#8220;No.&#8221;  Did you ever hear ANYONE ever talk like that to my son?&#8221;<br />
&#8220;No.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Did you ever hear anyone talk like  that to anyone at school?&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Yes&#8221;<br />
I told him that when someone talks like that to you, it really hurts.  Guess what?  He grew up a little that night.  The two get along now.  There is more to it than just saying &#8220;you all need to get along with each other.&#8221;</p>
<p>In a Quaker school, grades 6 on down, there was a conflict resolution program for all students and the principal only taught music.  This worked really well.</p>
<p>I find that the small private school works well for most of my children until about 6th grade.  Then they need a bigger environment.
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		<title>By: jayfromcleveland</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/01/31/christian-schools-vs-conveyor-belts/comment-page-1/#comment-268621</link>
		<dc:creator>jayfromcleveland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Too bad Postman didnt live another 10 years, he&#039;d have a field day with the current techno-dependent generation of youngsters.  You could do a blog post apiece on &quot;Technopoly&quot; and &quot;The Disappearance of Childhood.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too bad Postman didnt live another 10 years, he&#8217;d have a field day with the current techno-dependent generation of youngsters.  You could do a blog post apiece on &#8220;Technopoly&#8221; and &#8220;The Disappearance of Childhood.&#8221;
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		<title>By: Reg</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/01/31/christian-schools-vs-conveyor-belts/comment-page-1/#comment-268615</link>
		<dc:creator>Reg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have had four children in home, private, Christian and public schools over the past 14 years now.  One private, three Christian and one public school system.  The lines are not so neatly drawn.  God is at work in many places in a variety of circumstances.  He has been faithful through it all.  The family needs to know its priorities and fill in the gaps.  
One thing I never got, even being baptized as an infant in  a reformed church, Christian schools all the way to high school and  even from four years at a Christian college majoring in psychology , was as good of a description of relationships as my son brought home in his 10th grade health textbook from public school two years ago.   Our local public school takes the younger grades out once a week and they have Bible teaching.  We have been blessed here.  It is not perfect, and my job is never free of the need for exercising discernment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have had four children in home, private, Christian and public schools over the past 14 years now.  One private, three Christian and one public school system.  The lines are not so neatly drawn.  God is at work in many places in a variety of circumstances.  He has been faithful through it all.  The family needs to know its priorities and fill in the gaps.<br />
One thing I never got, even being baptized as an infant in  a reformed church, Christian schools all the way to high school and  even from four years at a Christian college majoring in psychology , was as good of a description of relationships as my son brought home in his 10th grade health textbook from public school two years ago.   Our local public school takes the younger grades out once a week and they have Bible teaching.  We have been blessed here.  It is not perfect, and my job is never free of the need for exercising discernment.
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		<title>By: Sawgunner</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/01/31/christian-schools-vs-conveyor-belts/comment-page-1/#comment-268605</link>
		<dc:creator>Sawgunner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I visited a public school in Austin and then went to the private church school nearby. The public school principal was not on campus. I was told that Dr Whoever was free to come and go as she pleased. At the church school the principal was TEACHING A CLASS!!
I will not forget that ever!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I visited a public school in Austin and then went to the private church school nearby. The public school principal was not on campus. I was told that Dr Whoever was free to come and go as she pleased. At the church school the principal was TEACHING A CLASS!!<br />
I will not forget that ever!
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