Condemned to debt
Attend college at your own financial risk. Skipping college and going straight to work is one of the wisest financial decisions a high school student can make in the short term. For college students today the wages of college is debt, and most college education is not worth the debt.
I recently worked out my finances with a financial firm and with all of my assets and liabilities (including my house), I have a net worth of negative $52,659. I did not know a negative net worth was possible. It’s my fault, too. Why did I loan my way through two seminaries compiling over $60,000 in loan debt? If I didn’t have the cash, should I have gone to graduate school at all? My only twisted comfort is that many of my peers are in similar debt-anchored boats (except for the ones who went straight into the business world or engineering, for example).
The Christian Science Monitor reports that for college graduates the average loan debt was $17,600 in 2004 and $22,581 in the case of private colleges. Average indebtedness of graduate students overall is $31,700, according to a Nellie Mae Foundation report.
Here are some school loan facts for recent grads from Tamara Draut author of Strapped: Why America’s 20- and 30- Somethings Can’t Get Ahead:
- The maximum Pell Grant award, the nation’s premier program for helping poor kids pay for college, covers about one-third of the costs of a four-year college today. It covered three-quarters in the 1970s.
- In 1948, veterans received a grant of $500 a year, enough to pay for all but $25 of tuition at Harvard. In 2003, the average federal grant to students was $2,421, which falls $24,000 short of tuition and fees at Harvard.
- In 1977, college students borrowed about $6 billion (2002 dollars) to help pay for college. College students borrowed $56 billion in 2003.
- The number of students enrolled in college grew by 44 percent between 1977 and 2003, but student loan volume rose by 833 percent.
- Three-quarters of full-time college students are holding down jobs.
- Only 53 percent of all students who enroll in four-year colleges end up getting their bachelors degree within 5 years.
- If current enrollment trends persist, over the next decade 4.4 million college-ready students from households with income below $50,000 will not attend a four-year college and 2 million students will not attend any college.
- In 1972, the typical male high school graduate aged 25 to 34 earned $42,000, in inflation adjusted dollars. Three decades later, male high school graduates in this age group are earning just over $29,000.
- In 1972, a young-adult male with a bachelor’s degree or higher earned on average $52,087 (2002 dollars). In 2002, young male college grads earned $48,955.
As the cost of a college education balloons, the capacity to pay back school loan debt has not followed suit. Many argue that federally subsidized loans are part of the problem. Because colleges are under no market constraints to control costs associated with tuition dollars administrators have been less responsible with budgets.
Being condemned to education debt affects graduates’ vocational decisions. I once attended a church where, only after a few months, one of our bright young pastors abruptly left for another church because it agreed to pay off his school loans immediately and entirely. I know another guy who will soon leave ministry altogether to work in “the real world” so he can pay back school loans largely acquired after saying, “I do.” Getting out of the debt is the “responsible” thing to do.
Granted, school loan debt is the choice of the student. If you do not want school loan debt, then do not go to college or graduate school some will say. “Skipping college is the best way to be debt free.” By the way, is college really necessary for a “comfortable life” anyway?
In the face of explosive debt, perhaps we should ask students better questions. Should the accumulation of debt drive your decisions about whether or not to attend college, graduate school, or whom you should marry? Is it wise to delay major education decisions if you don’t have the cash, even if it means delaying college, seminary, professional school, or not going at all. In the end, is the debt really worth it?
Finally, I wish parents would stop instilling fear and comfort idolatry by threatening, “If you don’t go to college you’ll be flippin’ burgers for the rest of your life!” This fear is a misleading deception. If a student has $50,000 in school loan debt coming out of college he may find himself “flippin’ burgers” after all.




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back to top36 Comments to “Condemned to debt”
I definitely got the whole you’ll be flipping burgers if you don’t go to college thing from my parents, but my parents couldn’t afford to really help me pay for college, and I absolutely refused to take out any loans for it. So, I didn’t go to college my first semester out from high school, but I did go after that. I live in Georgia, and, since I graduated from high school with a B or better average, my education is paid for if I attend a state university. So, I’m attending a state school for free (and learning absolutely nothing), but I am not taking on any debt, and the ease of coursework allows me to already hold down a full-time job in my desired career field (law). So, it’s certainly not easy to do, but a college education can be free. I could’ve gone to Yale or Harvard for free because my parents make less than 60K a year. And most southern states have a program similar to Georgia’s. I suppose I just wish it could be a quality education for free.
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Oh, how I wish state tuition were free in NC, but it isn’t. Due to various difficult circumstances, my husband and I neither one finished college. At one point I had received a student loan, and I ended up having it taken out of my paycheck with a lovely little garnishment for several years. Why? I couldn’t afford to continue with all my other responsibilities and go to school too, so more than six months went by, and they came after me. Don’t get me wrong; I’m glad I don’t have college debt, but now that my husband and I neither one have a college education, though we are both smart with good work background, we will always have a difficult time making a “really good” paycheck. At 38, he is now having to look at a third career change. He’s playing the juggling game of trying to get into classes at our local trade school while they will sponsor him on unemployment. Otherwise, he’ll have to take a low-paying job, and we’ll struggle to survive while he goes to school. The most aggravating factor is that the job he was doing really didn’t NEED a college degree – his boss just wanted the person in that position to have one. No particular reason, other than the fact that the boss had to pay a lot for college, and he wants others to have a degree too. I do, however, feel for those that have put in the time, paid the money, and are still paying for it years later. Seems there are no easy answers.
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Some education is necessary, but a four year college is not for everyone…probably not for many who are already enrolled.
Trades are good honorable work. I can’t speak for all trades, but here in central Indiana to become a journeyman electrician there’s a five year apprentice program. This includes classes after which they have an Associates degree, I believe. If you make it to journeyman, you can make a very nice wage. Apprentice wages are not very good and would make it difficult for a man to support a family. Of course, they don’t have the debt of college.
I’ve also observed ‘degree creep.’ Jobs which once ‘required’ a Bachelor degree now require a Masters. I worked at major pharmaceutical where a person, despite having worked there in a supervisory capability for 20 years, was passed over for promotion because he did not have a Masters degree. That was the policy.
My mother-in-law who grew up in the day when a high school diploma was king, despite her many years of experience is locked out from promotion because she has no college degree. She routinely trains ‘kids’ right out of college to be her boss.
Let me add one further thing to this rambling diatribe. Is not this debt issue fueled (at least in part) by government intervention? ‘Let’s add all this ‘free’ money to the system.’ How have colleges responded? Double-digit increases for years! How does government respond? Oh my! Look at these high college costs! We need more financial aid.
Besides, this financial aid punishes those who are frugal and mostly debt free. Has anyone filled out the FAFSA? Our ‘expected family contribution’ is $22k for our two sons. I am a controls technician and my wife a piano teacher. Our problem is that our only debt is a mortgage. We save and pay cash for everything, including major purchases like cars. Our boys get no financial aid.
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Personal anecdote time. Of four children, two graduated from a looked down upon Christian college (too many rules and legalistic!) debt free and walked into excellent jobs. The first is now able to attend the graduate program of his choice and pay up front. Second is just enjoying being school free for a time and being able to do what she wants with the money she earns. The other two both attended a private secular college. One graduated and is slowly repaying huge debt. The other dropped out and is slowly repaying huge debt. I vote for the unpopular Christian college that gives them the education to free them up to dig ditches or become a nurse or a computer scientist or whatever while getting out debt free. Just one woman’s opinion.
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A bigger concern in my book is the expectation on the part of Christian colleges that students will take out loans to help finance their education. It is either that, or a Christian college education is only for the well-off.
Austen-I am confident your parents are very proud of you.
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The value of a college education can be assessed at different levels.
Dennis Prager offered seven questions to ask before you (or your child) commit yourself to the huge expense and time commitments that college calls for (below are excerpts from Prager’s article):
1. “Can one obtain a Bachelor of Arts degree at your college without having read a single Shakespeare play, one Federalist Paper or one book of the Bible? If so, why attend such a college?”
2. “Does the college allow military recruiters on its campus? …If you believe, as reason and history argue, that the American military has done more to preserve liberty on earth than all the professors in all the universities combined, you might not want to send your child to a university that is hostile to the military.”
3. “In the political science, English, sociology, anthropology and history departments — or any other liberal arts department — what is the ratio of Democrats to Republicans among the professors? …The Rocky Mountain News reported that registered Democrats on the faculty of the University of Colorado at Boulder outnumbered registered Republicans 31-1. If such a ratio exists in the social science departments of your child’s prospective college, why would you want your child to attend such an institution?”
4. “What are the names of the speakers invited and paid with college funds to speak last year at the college? …If your prospective college has a speakers list that is balanced 10 to one in favor of speakers from the political left, that will help you decide whether indoctrination rather than exposure to great ideas is the university’s real agenda.”
5. “Can my child live in a same-sex dorm and are the bathrooms co-ed?
6. “Is Howard Zinn’s “A People’s History of the United States” the most widely assigned American history book? If the answer is yes, you should consider sending your son or daughter to another university or at least be aware that you will be paying a lot of hard-earned money for your child to be manipulated into believing that America is a bad country…”
7. “Would a typical graduate of your university be able to say anything intelligent about Josef Stalin, Louis Armstrong, Pope John XXIII or Pope John Paul II, differences between Protestantism and Catholicism, Cain and Abel, the Gulag Archipelago, Franz Josef Haydn, Pol Pot, Martin Luther, Darfur, how interest rates affect the dollar, dark matter, and “Crime and Punishment”; explain what the Korean War was about and when it was fought; identify India on a map; and know the difference between the United Nations General Assembly and the Security Council?”
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#4-I realize I should have said “many Christian colleges!” Does that Christian college you spoke of have an engineering program?
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That “expected family contribution” is so bogus isn’t it? With my wife not working and me the only breadwinner in the house, and very little retirement so far, it was patently obvious that we would not be helping the boys with their schooling after HS…
I still felt responsible, so when the oldest got a free ride via National Merit Scholarship, I breathed a sigh of relief, and felt like I’d dodged a bullet. He’s nearly finished with his four years, and will wait/work a year before going to graduate school. The youngest, to my dismay, has withdrawn even though the Hope Scholarship would have paid most of his schooling. Dunno what’s to become of this young man, but he’s pretty smart, so he should do fine… He may opt for a technical school of some sort… Thankfully neither of them have acrued any debt to speak of. We at least instilled that much good sense into them. I’m so glad because it’s devilishly hard to get out of debt. I’m nearly done paying on the house and it’s none too soon. I’ve got to start repairing it now…
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Gil M,
Our Christian college, though people talk badly about it, is very inexpensive and includes room and board in single sex dorms. It is not for everybody and people may or may not come out as more solid believers, but it is an option for the student without a lot of parental financial support or independent means without taking out a loan. It has excellent facilities and is more or less paid for by the homeschoolers that make use of their Academy textbooks.
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Gil M,
Yes, it does.
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Gil M,
And many work study opportunities for the interested student. First son worked in several capacities on campus and pretty much paid for it all through that and summer jobs.
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Thanks, Joel Mark, I copied your questions and put them in an e-mail. I’ve used similar arguments for years, trying to convince kids that Stanford (at $45K+ per year), probably isn’t the best choice.
My scree could go on and on, but I do try to interject fiscal points into discussions with college-bound kids and remind them that the debt–which sounds so benign when you’re 17–could mean everything in what they do with the rest of their life.
A special last year–I think it was on CNN–with Newt Gingrich explored the difference in life trajectories between borrowing $100K to go college, and investing that same money, instead, in a small business or technical training position. Over the course of an entire life, the student who borrowed for college only came out some $10K ahead. The numbers change, of course, if you don’t have to borrow money.
And when you visit campuses, ask yourself where all those government-subsidized loan dollars have gone? UW has a state of the art workout building open 24 hours for students. UCSan Diego has dorms nicer than my house several colleges we’ve visited had indoor climbing walls; many colleges poured money into glamour items that don’t have a lot to do with how well their students are educated.
2 3/4 college tuitions down at our house, one left to go . . . I’ll end the rant, now.
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Austen said, “I definitely got the whole you’ll be flipping burgers if you don’t go to college thing from my parents, but my parents couldn’t afford to really help me pay for college, and I absolutely refused to take out any loans for it.”
I think you made a good decision nonetheless. It’s too bad that “quality” and “free” are rarely associated in education. The whole system’s screwed up for sure. But I think that not having debt will put you on top in many areas in the long run.
I’m sorry to hear that your school’s not challenging enough for you. Maybe you can find a way to supplement your education with summer conferences, fellowships, and things like that?
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Some private colleges are actually very well-endowed and give good scholarships. Hillsdale gave me and my sisters excellent scholarships along with a good education. I think it’s worth a little debt, especially for a good liberal arts education. (Of course, a good liberal arts education doesn’t always make debt easy to pay off…)
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Dave Ramsey seems very much against student loans. My husband and I both paid for our own education without them. But that was a long time ago.
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Some education is necessary, but a four year college is not for everyone…probably not for many who are already enrolled.
That’s a HUGE part of the problem. The vast majority of Americans attending college today have no business being there. Is there another country on earth where colleges offer remedial reading classes?
Let me add one further thing to this rambling diatribe. Is not this debt issue fueled (at least in part) by government intervention? ‘Let’s add all this ‘free’ money to the system.’ How have colleges responded? Double-digit increases for years! How does government respond? Oh my! Look at these high college costs! We need more financial aid.
Exactly. College was much more affordable before massive governmental financial “aid” came along. All it does is make colleges richer.
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post #5, Daddy, I didn’t know you knew how to use those little smiley things!
post #13, Anthony, I certainly am hoping to supplement my education in that way. I had the opportunity to go to Slovakia for a week this upcoming summer to teach English, but I had to turn it down because I didn’t have enough vacation days from work left for it. But I have applied to for an internship with Governor in summer 2009, and my work as legal secretary has a steep learning curve!
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J Singletary – we ran into that same problems you discuss in your post #3. Neither of my kids qualified for financial aid. We saved in mutual funds for their education and the dot com bust hit about the time we had to start paying for educations so the money only paid about two thirds of our daughter’s education at a state school and not even half of our son’s education at a different state school. Of course, it didn’t help that my son’s education started out at slightly more than 10K per year when we entered and by the time he graduated we were paying 15K, and that was in state tuition.
Often merit based scholarships are also based on need, so once again my kids didn’t qualify – and my daughter was 11th in her high school class with more than a 4.0.
Thay have done away with “scholarships” for what I think should be called “sportships”, because many of the kids who get them are not the best scholars.
After earning a four year degree, my son couldn’t get an entry level job. The only jobs available were minimum wage jobs that don’t pay a living wage.
We are helping him (with more $$ from our dream home fund) so he can get a master’s because degree creep is everywhere in the Washington DC area for kids getting out of college.
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Joel at #6: If your prospective college has a speakers list that is balanced 10 to one in favor of speakers from the political left, that will help you decide whether indoctrination rather than exposure to great ideas is the university’s real agenda.”
That’s funny. So if it were 10 to one in favor of speakers from the right, that would be “exposure to great ideas” and not “indoctrination?”
Rich.
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Virtually every economic study ever done of this issue proves conclusively that economic value of a college degree. People with college degrees will, on average, make many times more than those without even reflecting today’s high indebtedness. And the social value is even greater. College is when most people begin to explore complex fields in depth. It’s absolutely critical to anyone with an interest in sciences, mathmatics, or engineering.
Now, I agree that indebtedness is a huge problem for many college graduates. And it is making it harder and harder for people to work in more esoteric or philosophical fields. I strongly support efforts to limit college costs.
But there is simply no basis for the idea that college isn’t the better course. I don’t know what it is about the World mentality, but the distrust of education and enlightenment as positive goods continues to confound.
(Despite myself, I have to comment on Joel Mark’s list. I would not consider a single one of those questions. They are completely irrelevant to evaluating a college).
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Nowhere was that said or implied, SteveG. You either knew that or you’re an extremely poor reader. Both, perhaps.
As to the topic, much of the problem could be avoided by delaying college, as was discussed here last week. I’ve recommended to my kids that they not start college until they know what they want to do, then let the major determine what college they attend.
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This thread is brilliant.
Lotsa really good comments/observations from the skimming I just did.
Schools ratchet up the price ea year. Even the publicly funded ones. Yet no one makes them justify the cost increases. Only recently did the Congress demand that colleges begin spending part of their tax exempt endowments. (I get calls from the Alumni dept of my first undergrad school ALL THE TIME asking for donations.. for a state supported school! Where do they spend the money?? Whom are they accountable to??
If anything the US should underwrite associate degrees for students in vo-tech programs. They can then get decent jobs and pursue further ed onlline or via night courses. I saw lotsa middle class white gals pursuing the MSN degree. That same amt of money could have helped train many more associate degree RNs or LPN nurses; and we will need those foot soldiers of health care far more than we will need MSN and PhD nurses.
A master’s degree is still after all a union card for a university teaching job.
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Anthony states, “Skipping college and going straight to work is one of the wisest financial decisions a high school student can make in the short term.
What is “short term?” I agree with Anthony regarding the debt ramifications in the first 20 years out of high school and I agree with DCL in post #20 about the 20 years after that.
I thought that it would be nice if my daughter took a break from school after graduating. Getting a job and saving some money was a need, but we were concerned that being away from advanced math and science classes for a year would be counter-productive…so we didn’t take a break. What we did do, based on the advice of the financial aid department at the university, was direct my daughter to a local Junior College. Same classes – fully transferable – for a lot less money. She may still need to take a break to earn money for the university, but now it will probably be after an A.A.
So what is short term? (In my sister’s case she had a 26 year break between her sophmore and junior years…definately not short term!)
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I would encourage any student to take a break between secondary and post-secondary education. The Brits call it a gap year, in which people travel and volunteer overseas. One can stay at home and work but I would advocate for volunteering abroad. There’s nothing like removing yourself from the conveyor belt of life to help set priorities. In Ontario, many high school students take a “victory lap” and stay for a fifth year to boost their average and take prerequisites they may have missed.
Personally, I don’t care if I made less or more money because of my educational decisions. Education for me was rewarding in its own right and for many in business, law etc school is extremely important for networking.
That being said, there’s no excuse for amassing a huge debt. In Ontario, dorm space is only guaranteed for first year students. After that you are on your own. In fact its cheaper to rent a house with four to six other students and purchase your own food. Mind you drafty old houses with bread and potato diet can only be tolerated for so long.
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16 – True. Having a college degree used to mean something. It doesn’t anymore. I’ve met people with bachelor’s and master’s degrees who were so ignorant and illiterate it made me proud to not have one. People do like to see them on resumes because it proves that you’re able to finish something and it ensures follow-through on a job. However, the whole system is now so politicized that that’s really all a person’s being educated (read: indoctrinated) in.
I’ve spent time with people, particularly Christian women, who literally have been harassed by co-workers and supervisors to go back and get graduate degrees. Was their BS (pun intended) enough to qualify them for the job? Certainly. Were they doing their job well? Yes. Their superiors simply took it upon themselves in their elitist indoctrination to believe that this person would be a SUPERIOR PERSON with a graduate degree. They literally believe that. Funny, none of them will tell these women to quit their jobs and work for and support their own husbands or find a husband and support them so a man can have their job he needs to support a family.
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I know I’m a bit late coming into the conversation, but I suppose I’ll throw in a few words anyway.
Mumsee,
Do you happen to be referring to PCC? I used a lot of aBeka curriculum in high school, and got pretty familiar with the Academy and some of the college faculty. If PCC has anything going for it, it’s that tuition is only about $5,000 a semester. (Or is it a year? I can never remember.)
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I hate to say this in public, but I am an alumnus of PCC and I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever recommend it to anyone. It’s not just the legalistic and moralistic rules, it is the education and the accreditation issue.
I finished a Bachelor of Science in Business from there and never took a science course. The history courses I took were extremely revisionist to the “right” and rarely spoke well of minorities in the 20th century. You are not exposed to any newer music forms of the 20th century. You are taught that the KJV is God’s true word in English. People are expelled based upon hearsay and second hand information. It is truly a climate of fear and not liberty.
A few years after graduating, I went to an accredited seminary and graduated with really good grades. I moved on to graduate school at a public university to pursue further studies in History. In the middle of my first semester this past fall, I was nearly dismissed from the public university because of my unaccredited bachelor’s degree from PCC. In fact, my M.Div from a certain seminary where Anthony Bradley teaches, is listed as my “bachelor’s equivalent” on my student records.
Long story short, I will probably have an extremely tough time getting into a PhD program now at other public universities and am currently seeking to complete a BA degree while earning a second graduate degree.
The Chronicle of Higher Education ran an article about PCC in the past 18 months, and I assure you, less and less universities in the US will accept their students for graduate work. Additionally, I was removed from the alumni list and the College stopped sending me their magazine because I (a Calvinist) wrote a letter which suggested they endorse a different anti-Calvinist book than Dave Hunt’s What Love Is This.
I can go on and on, but I prefer not to waste my time and cannot stand speaking of that place.
And for the record, I am in pastoral ministry (Presbyterian Church in America), so this isn’t some “flaming liberal” with an anti-Christian agenda writing.
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I forgot to mention this; when I applied to graduate programs last year, I was not accepted by several public universities (we’re not talking Harvard, here) and one, in particular (an SEC school), basically said it was because of my undergraduate degree in the rejection letter. This, despite the fact that I more than met their GPA and GRE requirements for entry into their PhD program.
I have other friends who have experienced this as well. And the funny thing about my near dismissal last semester is the fact that I have a 4.0 in their graduate program. There was no way in the world I could have ever earned a 4.0 in seminary.
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Yoshiyahu,
Yes indeed. PCC and as of daughter finishing last spring with a nursing degree, it was 6,000 per year including room and board. Because of PCC’s reputation, the hospital where she is working flew her out for an interview her last spring break and gave her the job immediately.
BGGJR,
As mentioned, it is not for everybody. People either like it very much or hate it. Son had friends who hated it. They are still hanging around in below par jobs many years later. I suspect their attitudes played a part in the dislike. He had a tendency to think it a bad place but can not complain as he had a job in his field immediately on graduation. He also wrote on a blog somewhere in mild dislike of the place and was removed from the mailing list. He also saw that the faculty was there to help and interested in the students actually learning what was presented.
Daughter saw it as a place where the faculty was very available to the students and very interested in helping them. (Not the case for our students in another big name, high cost center of “education”). She understood that they were KJV only and she is not. She understood that they had rules she did not understand or agree with but she did see that she had put herself under their authority for a season and was willing to work for her wages: a degree in her field of choice.
When another son transferred from there to the other center of “education”, the gaining school assured him that PCC’s credits were most acceptable and would get him a scholarship. Halfway through the first semester, he learned otherwise and so began his descent into debt. He ended up dropping out and is repaying tremendous school debt for a degree he did not receive while working as an enlisted man in the AF.
No school is perfect. What my kids gained from there was the reinforcement that they needed to be involved and active in whatever job they took. They learned that they need to take what they hear and compare it with Scripture. And they learned that we are in a world surrounded by humans and humans tend to act like humans.
None of the three felt they were living in a climate of fear. Romans 13 comes into play here.
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Well, it wasn’t my intention to hijack the thread. I didn’t realize that PCC was a “hotbutton” issue.
I’ve had my own experience with PCC, and I doubt that I’d be welcome there for a number of reasons. (A student with a grudge against me threatened to tamper with my highschool records, because most of the Academy correspondence positions are staffed by students with access to the highschool grading system, but that’s another story.)
I’m not going to split hairs over Dispensationalism, or KJV onlyism, nor am I going to debate the notion of “eye babies,” but I always thought it was funny that a group of students had taken to praying for my salvation because someone so carnal as to listen to Steve Taylor could never be “saved.”
Somehow my issues with how things were run (I think I compared floor leaders to the Gestapo, at some point during a conversation with a student) got back to staff, and I stopped receiving (once daily) advertisements for PCC. Of course, it’s not my job (or my intention) to bash the place, or anyone who goes there. I did enough of that when I was younger, and realize that burning bridges like I did probably wasn’t the wisest thing to do. I was just curious.
PCC is good if you want to be a nurse and appreciate a very regulated environment, but I don’t see much else there unless you want to go into some kind of ministry. (And likely an Independent Baptist one at that) There’s nothing wrong with that, but most people are going to be very off-put by their rules, and view them as extremely legalistic. I know I did.
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DC Lawyer Says: “Virtually every economic study ever done of this issue proves conclusively that economic value of a college degree.”
Wiglaf says: Economic studies deal in statistics and generalities. Most people are agreeing that each INDIVIDUAL assess their own reasons and goals for college instead of assuming that college is the only option. One reason those studies are true, are because smarter kids go to college. It’s cultural. It’s expected. Debt is assumed to be necessary in order to achieve one’s potential. What if those smart kids DON’T go to college or simply don’t go to a traditional college? You see often what happens when smart kids skip college or quit early. They buck the system and start their own successful businesses. So, I’d say intelligence causes higher wages; not college. Intelligence may mean business smarts and NOT the capability to get straight “A”s in school.
DC Lawyer says: “I strongly support efforts to limit college costs.”
Wiglaf says: People can start by getting nonprofessional degrees through nontraditional methods. A college education can be cheap if you know where to look. The internet provides new avenues and tools for finding and getting a college degree.
DC Lawyer says: “But there is simply no basis for the idea that college isn’t the better course.”
Wiglaf says: There is also no basis for saying college is the ONLY course or that college is ALWAYS the best course. Don’t limit others or yourself. I’m sure Einstein or Bill Gates had no problem saying college wasn’t the only course.
Regarding Joel Mark’s list, I think there are good things to thing about there, but it all depends on what one wishes to accomplish with a higher education.
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Older son did computer science. As mentioned, he is quite happy with where he is, working with his fourth and fifth Olympics since graduating. As well as the All Asian Games in Qatar. His foot in the door was a computer science degree from PCC. Yes, PCC is a hot button topic which is a source of endless amusement to me. It would appear that people who complain about there rules and judgementalist attitudes are being rather judegemental, wouldn’t you say? As you mentioned, some people like it, many don’t. It is only a small bit of the human population that goes there, only a small viewpoint. Not to worry, they are not going to overcome the world with it.
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Regarding the topic at hand, there are several options to getting a college degree with minimal debt. One option, which I used in seminary, is to work part-time at UPS and take advantage of their generous education benefits. I realized close to $20,000 in benefits during seminary.
Secondly, there are work study programs, outside scholarship programs, etc, at nearly any public university. The thing is, you have to contact them earlier rather than later.
Another cost effective way is to begin at a community college, then transfer. If you stay “in-state” for university studies, your tuition is usually 50%-75% less than going to an out of state university.
Sometimes, the situation could warrant working part-time and navigating through the university process slowly. You can also go into the military and benefit from the GI Bill (unless you go to unaccredited schools like PCC, etc).
For grad school, if you apply early enough, you can get assistantships at public universities, even if you are an MA student. I am doing it right now and paying $0 for tuition.
One myth that our society has generated is that college degrees are required to be successful and that everyone should attend college. This is nonsense, there are people who should not be in college. I work in academic advising and encounter students who are forced by their parents to attend college, major in a discipline that does not suit their interests, gifts and abilities, or they have bought into the lie of the American dream and think the only way to attain it is to “go to college.” The bottom line is there are people who have no business in college. That sounds harsh, but in my experience, many public educated students are woefully unprepared for basic college math and English, not to mention history or other basic disciplines. This has led to the first two years of university basically being what high school used to be. It’s sad, but that’s how it is. “Higher” education is a business now.
Regarding the people who have talked about their kids at PCC, etc. Romans 13 isn’t talking about Xian institutions. Don’t take it out of context.
Additionally, I had two great jobs after graduating from PCC, but later decided to go to graduate school and my degree from there has been a problem. I never learned about postmodernism, American culture, historiography, and a host of other things that are basic in college education. I had so much extra catching up to do when I entered seminary because I was not taught basic philosophy, etc, that my classmates were well-versed in. Most of my classes were not taught by PhDs, even my upper division coursework. That is a HUGE problem. I was also told that I would have no problem with PCC’s lack of accreditation. I was a kid, it was the mid-1990s and the internet wasn’t in wide use or I could have benefited from better information. Sure PCC grads get good jobs, even the nursing majors, but talk to some who had great grades and were denied entry into graduate programs. Talk to PCC education grads who were denied certification to teach in public schools. Talk to PCC grads who were unable to get in the USAF officer program because of non-accreditation. PCC students are told that the institution will have to teach “worldly” materials because accreditation is a “government” program. That is simply untrue. There are hosts of great Christian colleges which are accredited and offer liberal arts education. You simply have to look.
Regarding the rules. If you think God wants His children that he loves to be subjected to unChristian, outward focused, works-based sanctification Christianity, I can’t help you.
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BGGJR,
I watch my kids go to college after we have established a belief system. Hopefully, by then, they have developed some discerning abilities. If they were to attend a secular college or any other college, they would run into the same problems with a different look.
Again, with six billion people on the planet, if five thousand choose this route, it is okay with me.
I don’t know you BGGJR, but I do know bitterness and I have experienced it myself and seen it in past PCC attenders. Do not let it grow in your life, it will not enhance your work as a pastor but will take over. I hope you are not suffering from it, but please, take this as a caution from a concerned sister who has been through bitterness. Let the Lord show you if it is there and flee from it.
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I, as well, attendeded a non-accredited university, but i knew it wouldn’t transfer into the larger system. I came out learning Greek, Hebrew, World History, World Religion…stuff for personal enrichment…which people usually wait until they are a bit older to fall into…I was in my early twenties.
My honest to God opinion: don’t go to college for a career…that’s how we are introduced into the debt culture…because our economy wouldn’t survive if everybody paid off everything. College, for the initiated only serves as an orientation and some training to prepare you think the like world system.
Sorry, i think the line about military recruiters is bogus. #6
The funny thing is all of the landmark traditional college all started as Christian insitutions, where a large focus was the missionary objective. Now we persue careers to elevate ourselves on the social scale, falling into materialism and conspicuous consumption. Meanwhile, our net worth is in the red. I agree with the author, one’s only solace at this point, is that everyone is in the same financial hole.
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#35 “don’t go to college for a career”
It all depends what career you are interested in. College is necessary for many professions, including medicine, law, and engineering. My husband’s first career was as a research scientist, and that required not only college but post-graduate study to develop the knowledge and expertise required for working as a researcher in the pharmaceutical industry.
Other careers clearly do not need college. Skilled trades such as plumbing, carpentry, welding, and others have specialized training but do not require a college degree. (That doesn’t mean that study of the subjects covered in college would not be beneficial to people working in skilled trades, but they would probably do at least as well to take classes at a community college as time and budget permit.)
For other careers it’s less clear. I work in business, and some jobs require a college degree while others only require a high school diploma. Some people currently in higher level positions started in positions that only required a high school diploma, and worked their way up. One manager in our IT department recently finished his bachelors degree, while others are working on their masters degrees.
I intend to advise my teenage son to take a year after high school to work, save money, and think about what he wants to do.
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