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	<title>Comments on: Boys to men</title>
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		<title>By: SteveG</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/10/boys-to-men/comment-page-1/#comment-282534</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>JohnV at #26: &lt;i&gt;On a side note, there is another church nearby - a megachurch of sorts - with probably over 10,000 folks of this age group, 18-30. I don&#8217;t think young people are leaving the church per se, just the traditional B&amp;M versions in search of a mission and purpose to it.&lt;/i&gt;

I used to be involved in the young adult singles group of a megachurch. My observation at the time was that at least 2/3 of the men involved were there to meet chicks. They were nominally Christian -- enough so to fit in -- but they were treating as a Sunday-morning singles bar, not a house of worship. 

Every time a new woman walked in to the room where the group met, she was immediately surrounded by a half-dozen solicitous men trying to get her attention and favor. The poor girl wouldn&#039;t even have time to find a chair before she was being hit on. 

It was pathetic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JohnV at #26: <i>On a side note, there is another church nearby &#8211; a megachurch of sorts &#8211; with probably over 10,000 folks of this age group, 18-30. I don&#8217;t think young people are leaving the church per se, just the traditional B&amp;M versions in search of a mission and purpose to it.</i></p>
<p>I used to be involved in the young adult singles group of a megachurch. My observation at the time was that at least 2/3 of the men involved were there to meet chicks. They were nominally Christian &#8212; enough so to fit in &#8212; but they were treating as a Sunday-morning singles bar, not a house of worship. </p>
<p>Every time a new woman walked in to the room where the group met, she was immediately surrounded by a half-dozen solicitous men trying to get her attention and favor. The poor girl wouldn&#8217;t even have time to find a chair before she was being hit on. </p>
<p>It was pathetic.
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		<title>By: Tychicus</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/10/boys-to-men/comment-page-1/#comment-282520</link>
		<dc:creator>Tychicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>NT: Some of us have it, and some of us stiffs just don&#039;t have it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NT: Some of us have it, and some of us stiffs just don&#8217;t have it&#8230;
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		<title>By: Night Train</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/10/boys-to-men/comment-page-1/#comment-282455</link>
		<dc:creator>Night Train</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;I do really appreciate your &#8220;tell-it-like-it-is&#8221; attitude and your great sense of humor.&lt;/i&gt;

Yeah, well, I&#039;m no Llama or Drill, but I do what I can.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I do really appreciate your &#8220;tell-it-like-it-is&#8221; attitude and your great sense of humor.</i></p>
<p>Yeah, well, I&#8217;m no Llama or Drill, but I do what I can.  Thanks.
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		<title>By: rdean</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/10/boys-to-men/comment-page-1/#comment-282419</link>
		<dc:creator>rdean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Part of it is the Church has to get a new schtick.  You can&#039;t build a following on hate gays, keep women down and anti sciece.  Not after Will and Grace, Kill Bill and National Geographic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of it is the Church has to get a new schtick.  You can&#8217;t build a following on hate gays, keep women down and anti sciece.  Not after Will and Grace, Kill Bill and National Geographic.
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		<title>By: Tychicus</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/10/boys-to-men/comment-page-1/#comment-282401</link>
		<dc:creator>Tychicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>NT: I don&#039;t know enough about the situation in Africa to be able to really comment on the dynamic of tremendous Christian growth vs. the never-ending problems: leaders who fall into the traps of money, sex and power or some combination thereof, lack of new ideas, issues of dependency, AIDS, etc. I will say that the church often grows exponentially in times of great trial and persecution, which of course is happening in great measure in China as well. Not only did Jesus promise that His church will grow [as I mentioned in #32], but He also guaranteed that His followers would experience tribulation [Jn 16:33, among others] and persecution [Jn 15:20, among others].

P.S. While I don&#039;t particularly like your anti-Christian bias [though that&#039;s most likely not an accurate description b/c even though I don&#039;t know you I have an inkling that you&#039;re not so much against Christianity but rather you&#039;ve been deeply hurt by a Christian or Christians], I do really appreciate your &quot;tell-it-like-it-is&quot; attitude and your great sense of humor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NT: I don&#8217;t know enough about the situation in Africa to be able to really comment on the dynamic of tremendous Christian growth vs. the never-ending problems: leaders who fall into the traps of money, sex and power or some combination thereof, lack of new ideas, issues of dependency, AIDS, etc. I will say that the church often grows exponentially in times of great trial and persecution, which of course is happening in great measure in China as well. Not only did Jesus promise that His church will grow [as I mentioned in #32], but He also guaranteed that His followers would experience tribulation [Jn 16:33, among others] and persecution [Jn 15:20, among others].</p>
<p>P.S. While I don&#8217;t particularly like your anti-Christian bias [though that's most likely not an accurate description b/c even though I don't know you I have an inkling that you're not so much against Christianity but rather you've been deeply hurt by a Christian or Christians], I do really appreciate your &#8220;tell-it-like-it-is&#8221; attitude and your great sense of humor.
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		<title>By: Dav</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/10/boys-to-men/comment-page-1/#comment-282394</link>
		<dc:creator>Dav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Whoa! #30, where did you get that garbage? Wake up, man! Pay attention!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoa! #30, where did you get that garbage? Wake up, man! Pay attention!
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		<title>By: Night Train</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/10/boys-to-men/comment-page-1/#comment-282316</link>
		<dc:creator>Night Train</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:56:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Tychichus, if Voltaire said that, he was obviously wrong.  If he said that Christianity would die off in Europe, he was obviously right.

There&#039;s another recent post (by HSK I think) about changing American evangelicalism from the latest &lt;i&gt;Atlantic Monthly&lt;/i&gt;.  Well, I had to go into the Big City today, so I spent a few hours at Barnes &amp; Noble, and a few more at Books A Million.  I thought I&#039;d check out the article referenced.  Well, lo and behold, the &lt;i&gt;AM&lt;/i&gt; also had an article about the future of religion in Africa, which I read.  The author is Eliza Griswold, and she&#039;s the daughter of an American bishop in the Anglican or Episcopalian church.   The article is about the growing war between Islam and Christianity on the continent.  She focused on Nigeria, but made it clear that the trends she wrote about were taking place all over the continent.  One interesting note is about the mass murders committed by both sides in Nigeria.  And guess who encourages and winks at Christians committing pogroms against Muslims?  The Anglican Primate Peter Akinola, the hero of so many conservative Christians in America for his stance against gays.  Gay marriage is wrong, but the mass murder of Muslims is fine.  But the main thing that&#039;s pertinent here is the nature of much of the &quot;Christianity&quot; that&#039;s spreading like wildfire.  Guess what?  Much of it is about using God to get rich.  It&#039;s barely more than a superstition.  She quotes one man who frankly says he became a Christian to get rich.  Nigeria is filled with preachers who make Kenneth Copeland and Creflo Dollar look like Mother Theresa.  Their sermons are about money, money, money.  They write books on money, money, money with pictures of bundles of currency on the cover.  So many people are converting from Islam to &quot;Christianity&quot; to get rich that the Muslims have mounted a counterattack.  They started a group called NASTA or NATA or something like that, which is basically prosperity preaching from a Muslim perspective, i. e, Allah wants you rich.  Now &lt;i&gt;it&#039;s&lt;/i&gt; spreading like wildfire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tychichus, if Voltaire said that, he was obviously wrong.  If he said that Christianity would die off in Europe, he was obviously right.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s another recent post (by HSK I think) about changing American evangelicalism from the latest <i>Atlantic Monthly</i>.  Well, I had to go into the Big City today, so I spent a few hours at Barnes &amp; Noble, and a few more at Books A Million.  I thought I&#8217;d check out the article referenced.  Well, lo and behold, the <i>AM</i> also had an article about the future of religion in Africa, which I read.  The author is Eliza Griswold, and she&#8217;s the daughter of an American bishop in the Anglican or Episcopalian church.   The article is about the growing war between Islam and Christianity on the continent.  She focused on Nigeria, but made it clear that the trends she wrote about were taking place all over the continent.  One interesting note is about the mass murders committed by both sides in Nigeria.  And guess who encourages and winks at Christians committing pogroms against Muslims?  The Anglican Primate Peter Akinola, the hero of so many conservative Christians in America for his stance against gays.  Gay marriage is wrong, but the mass murder of Muslims is fine.  But the main thing that&#8217;s pertinent here is the nature of much of the &#8220;Christianity&#8221; that&#8217;s spreading like wildfire.  Guess what?  Much of it is about using God to get rich.  It&#8217;s barely more than a superstition.  She quotes one man who frankly says he became a Christian to get rich.  Nigeria is filled with preachers who make Kenneth Copeland and Creflo Dollar look like Mother Theresa.  Their sermons are about money, money, money.  They write books on money, money, money with pictures of bundles of currency on the cover.  So many people are converting from Islam to &#8220;Christianity&#8221; to get rich that the Muslims have mounted a counterattack.  They started a group called NASTA or NATA or something like that, which is basically prosperity preaching from a Muslim perspective, i. e, Allah wants you rich.  Now <i>it&#8217;s</i> spreading like wildfire.
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		<title>By: Tychicus</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/10/boys-to-men/comment-page-1/#comment-282092</link>
		<dc:creator>Tychicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>NT @ 29: Voltaire was actually a Deist who for the most part focused  his criticism towards the actions of organized religion, rather than with the concept of religion itself. He also had a reputation for taking both sides of an argument, as is exemplified in his many quotations.

One of his most famous quotations, of course, is this one: &lt;i&gt;&#8220;Within 100 years of my death, Christianity will be swept from existence and&#8230;pass into history.&#8221;&lt;/i&gt; Only 50 years after his death, the Geneva Bible Society bought Voltaire&#8217;s house and turned it into a printing press and produced stacks of Bibles! During that century there was great growth and revival, new mission societies were born, and the Gospel continued to spread to every continent in the world. So despite your claim, Voltaire was totally wrong. Not only has Christianity not passed into history, but on a worldwide scale [and no, on other continents and in other cultures it doesn&#039;t have to and in fact shouldn&#039;t look like &#039;Western&#039; Christianity] it is alive and growing and continues to be influential. And it will continue to do so, b/c Jesus has promised: &lt;i&gt;&quot;I will build My church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

This is a losing argument for you, but maybe you can get the thread back on track by addressing the issue that you dodged at # 18. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NT @ 29: Voltaire was actually a Deist who for the most part focused  his criticism towards the actions of organized religion, rather than with the concept of religion itself. He also had a reputation for taking both sides of an argument, as is exemplified in his many quotations.</p>
<p>One of his most famous quotations, of course, is this one: <i>&#8220;Within 100 years of my death, Christianity will be swept from existence and&#8230;pass into history.&#8221;</i> Only 50 years after his death, the Geneva Bible Society bought Voltaire&#8217;s house and turned it into a printing press and produced stacks of Bibles! During that century there was great growth and revival, new mission societies were born, and the Gospel continued to spread to every continent in the world. So despite your claim, Voltaire was totally wrong. Not only has Christianity not passed into history, but on a worldwide scale [and no, on other continents and in other cultures it doesn't have to and in fact shouldn't look like 'Western' Christianity] it is alive and growing and continues to be influential. And it will continue to do so, b/c Jesus has promised: <i>&#8220;I will build My church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>This is a losing argument for you, but maybe you can get the thread back on track by addressing the issue that you dodged at # 18. <img src='http://online.worldmag.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />
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		<title>By: EYG</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/10/boys-to-men/comment-page-1/#comment-282065</link>
		<dc:creator>EYG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Those of you suffering from not being seen as an adult unless you are married: take heart.

There is a fresh wind of change,  a going back to the truth.

My son is 18.  He is a man, albeit a young man still in need of mentoring.  Biblically, there is no adolescence.  I reinforce his adulthood as much as possible, because I want him to grasp that so that no one else can tell him otherwise.

I&#039;m sorry for what you single people who are enduring with the current pervasive bias against your status.

I reinforce this to my daughters and all the sons  and their parents who God sends my way.   I&#039;m glad you spoke up.

Also, I agree!! A man who dismisses all women as feminists is being just as narrow minded as those who can&#039;t believe single people are adults. He shouldn&#039;t be so timid.  My husband won me because he wasn&#039;t (visibly) scared of me. I liked his mettle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those of you suffering from not being seen as an adult unless you are married: take heart.</p>
<p>There is a fresh wind of change,  a going back to the truth.</p>
<p>My son is 18.  He is a man, albeit a young man still in need of mentoring.  Biblically, there is no adolescence.  I reinforce his adulthood as much as possible, because I want him to grasp that so that no one else can tell him otherwise.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry for what you single people who are enduring with the current pervasive bias against your status.</p>
<p>I reinforce this to my daughters and all the sons  and their parents who God sends my way.   I&#8217;m glad you spoke up.</p>
<p>Also, I agree!! A man who dismisses all women as feminists is being just as narrow minded as those who can&#8217;t believe single people are adults. He shouldn&#8217;t be so timid.  My husband won me because he wasn&#8217;t (visibly) scared of me. I liked his mettle.
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		<title>By: Anlir</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/10/boys-to-men/comment-page-1/#comment-281980</link>
		<dc:creator>Anlir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>From what I&#039;m reading on here, one can conclude the following:

1.  The answer to the lack of men in church is a &quot;smash mouth&quot; version of male ruled Christianity.

2.  Women need to re-learn their place:  following behind the men quietly, preferably with their eyes lowered.

3.  If you&#039;re a single, no matter how old you are, you&#039;ll never be a true man until you get married.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I&#8217;m reading on here, one can conclude the following:</p>
<p>1.  The answer to the lack of men in church is a &#8220;smash mouth&#8221; version of male ruled Christianity.</p>
<p>2.  Women need to re-learn their place:  following behind the men quietly, preferably with their eyes lowered.</p>
<p>3.  If you&#8217;re a single, no matter how old you are, you&#8217;ll never be a true man until you get married.
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