GOP veepstakes: The Condi option
In the latest New Yorker, Hendrik Hertzberg writes about John McCain’s options in selecting a vice presidential running mate:
If McCain really wants to have it all—to refurbish his maverick image without having to flip-flop on the panderings that have tarnished it; to galvanize the attention of the press, the nation, and the world; to make a bold play for the center without seriously alienating “the base”—then he can avail himself of a highly interesting option: Condoleezza Rice.
To deal first with the obvious: Rice may be “only” the second woman and the second African-American to be Secretary of State, but she is indisputably the highest-ranking black female official ever to have served in any branch of the United States government. Her nomination to a constitutional executive office would cost McCain the votes of his party’s hardened racists and incorrigible misogynists. They are surely fewer in number, though, than the people who would like to participate in breaking the glass ceiling of race or gender but, given the choice, would rather do so in a more timid way, and/or without abandoning their party. And with Rice on the ticket the Republicans could attack Clinton or Obama with far less restraint.
Read his entire assessment here.













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back to top55 Comments to “GOP veepstakes: The Condi option”
There are at least three big problems with this scenario:
(1) Rice has repeatedly said she isn’t interested in being president, and apparently she means it. So she probably doesn’t want to be VP either.
(2) If Rice doesn’t want to be president, putting her in as VP would leave the Republicans with a very old president (the oldest first-termer ever, and not nearly as good health as Reagan) and no heir apparent. Besides, a person who didn’t want to be president would be stupid to take the VP slot under an old president who has a decent chance of dying in office.
(3) Rice is another RINO. Conservatives who are taking a “wait and see” position on McCain would run the other way. Another presidential candidate might gain with Rice as a running mate; I think McCain would lose. (If nothing else, she’s pro-abortion.)
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If he picks Condaleezza, even more conservatives will stay home and refuse to vote for him. It will be seen for what it is, pandering to blacks at the expense of principle. Never mind the gay rumors, which would surely come to the surface if she were on the ticket. McCain claims to be pro-life, but would choose a pro-choice running mate because she’s black? That’s really gong to fly with conservatives.
I see that Florida guv Charlie Crist is running around with McCain a lot lately, and his name is often bandied about for veep. Well, Crist is another one of those rich, handsome, powerful GOP politician who’s for some reason still single. Confirmed bachelor indeed. A good friend of his said Crist was gay in a live radio interview, and many FL journalists treat it like an open secret. Needless to say, if Christ gets the nod, the open secret in FL is going to be pretty much open nationwide, and not much of a secret.
McCain better stick with Huckabee.
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Hi Cheryl D.
Condi might do it. She has more credibility than McCain does.
But, he’s a loose cannon.
I loved Dick Cheney as W’s running mate, but I don’t know if he made W a better president. He just gave the ticket credibility.
The VP doesn’t do much.
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Should McCain ask, I don’t think Condi would would say yes.
While she is less committed to the GOP’s social interests calling her a RINO seems VERY inaccurate. She was part of the Project for the New American Century!
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“I loved Dick Cheney as W’s running mate, but I don’t know if he made W a better president. He just gave the ticket credibility.”
You know you were a 2000 voter if…
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If the Republicans hope to win the next election, they need to think outside the box. Right now they are indeed facing a perfect storm of highly motivated Democrats with significant populist favor on the war and economic issues.
Condi Rice could well be a brilliant pick as a V.P. candidate.
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Yes, she’d be brilliant pick both politically and demographically. But, what would she be getting into aligning herself with McCain. I don’t think he’d respect her counsel.
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EYG,
I agree the VP doesn’t do much…but as a running mate to a 71-year-old man (two years older than Reagan when he ran the first time) who has some health issues and doesn’t look robust like Reagan did, I think the VP is crucial this time. I suspect McCain would most likely be a one-term president, and so his running mate simply has to be someone we’d like as president. I think Rice is a very credible statesman–she’s just not conservative enough for me to vote for her. And she wouldn’t get me to vote for McCain.
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#2
Huckabee would be a great option.
But, it seems like whoever would be VP for any of the candidates would basically be committing political suicide.
Also, I don’t think she’s gay. She’s just career focused and ultra-successful thus her ‘dating pool’ is very, very small. Maybe nonexistent.
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The people I know, who know people who know Condi personally say that she is not a lesbian.
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Reuters
Rice says has no plan to run for vice president
Fri Feb 22, 2008
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Having long played down the idea that she might someday run for president, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Friday said she had no plans to serve as a vice president either.
There has been speculation that Republican presidential front-runner Sen. John McCain of Arizona might tap Rice as his running mate.
“I have always said that the one thing that I have not seen myself doing is running for elected office,” Rice said at a news conference. “I didn’t even run for high school president. It’s sort of not in my genes.”
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Dr. Rice would not accept the VP nod. She wants to be President of the NFL.
I, for one, would not vote for the R ticket with a RINO as VP, whether the RINO is black, white or anything else. Why would I want to see a RINO in office for possibly the next 16 years? (Yes, I consider McCain to be a RINO based on the last 8 years.)
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The pros:
1. She’s both a woman and a black person, which means that she could help defuse the whole race/gender controversy, as already said.
2. She is smart, articulate, and assertive. Yet she is personable at the same time.
3. Being Secretary of State is much better preparation for the presidency than anything Clinton or Obama have done.
4. It would make most Republicans proud to be the party of the first black female VP.
The cons:
1. She has said she would not do it, as already said.
2. It could look like pandering. This argument is a double edged sword though, as the same accusation could be made against the Democrats with either Obama or Clinton.
3. I’m not sure that she and McCain can get along. She could be a HUGE asset to any president, but I don’t see McCain trusting her or utilizing her vast knowledge and skill.
4. She is not pro-life, and her stands on other “social” issues are not clear–at least to me. Unless I was persuaded that she is more conservative than McCain, I don’t think she is the absolute best peson for his running mate.
My conclusion? I’d prefer that McCain choose Alan Keyes, Fred Thompson, Duncan Hunter, or Mike Huckabee–in that order. However, I could be mildly content with Secretary Rice.
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I thought of another good choice for McCain.
Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas would make an excellent president. She would be a good choice for McCain. She has an impeccable conservative record. She has been a highly respected state treasurer and U. S. senator. She is from the south.
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Kyle A.,
Not Thompson. Two old white men would SINK the ticket. I hope he surprises us all with any of the others, or similar.
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The article’s writer believes that a McCain-Rice ticket “would cost McCain the votes of his party’s hardened racists and incorrigible misogynists.” This bigoted evaluation lacks substance and truth. In the meantime, the nation has witnessed these very problems on the news during the Democratic Party’s primaries and the on-going strife between that party’s candidates.
Secretary Rice would be a plus on the McCain ticket.
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Rice has never indicated that she wants to be vice-president and has even suggested she wouldn’t accept it. She may not want the scrutiny and possible uncovering of damaging facts as well as the possible lies that people would tell about her.
She has an impressive biography but she has many critics and her ties to the Bush administration won’t help her much.
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Do people even read what they write? Or are they just so used to repeating politically correct FOX News platitudes that it never occurs to them that they’re completely contradicting themselves? Take Peter Leavitt. He says:
Right now they are indeed facing a perfect storm of highly motivated Democrats with significant populist favor on the war and economic issues.
Then he says:
Condi Rice could well be a brilliant pick as a V.P. candidate.
So the GOP is in bad shape because the Democrats have “significant populist favor on the war” on their side. And so picking for VP one of the primary architects of that war would be a “brilliant” choice?
Let’s see… A lot of the American people are opposed to/disgusted with/angry about the Iraq war. This will be a huge factor in the Dems favor. To counter it, the GOP should run for VP one of the primary architects of that same war. This would be a “brilliant” choice.
I see.
Makes sense to me.
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“The article’s writer believes that a McCain-Rice ticket “would cost McCain the votes of his party’s hardened racists and incorrigible misogynists.””
Most of those I know personally are yellow dog Democrats.
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I agree with Night Train. Running McCain-Rice vs Obama or Hillary would be a giant referendum on the War in Iraq.
I thought everyone realized that the Iraq War is not popular. Are they hoping to make it popular again? That actually sounds scary.
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Condi would be a great pick if Obama, Hillary or Elton John, for that matter, is on the Dem ticket.
She being female, black and probably gay is what the Dems call a perfect trifecta. I wonder how long it will take for the left to out her? I’m guessing 5 minutes.
With McCain getting the conservative democrat and moderate independent vote Condi could get the liberal Democrat vote of women, blacks and gays. It’s a shame she isn’t Jewish with Islamic parents too
.
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Night Train, you need to understand that the sentiments of the vox populi have more to do with identity politics than the Iraq War. Condi Rice would be a brilliant choice, however paradoxical her position on the Iraq War.
McCain will win or lose this election depending on whether he can convince the people that we are are winning this war, though at the moment fragilely, and that it is vital to American security interests to continue the war until it is won. In my view a Rice- McCain ticket would give the American people a far better choice than that of the defeatists, Obama or Clinton whose presently populist views on the war could be overcome.
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Luke,
Thank you for addressing the Rice lesbianism issue in #10. It always seemed to me like an unfair slam without evidence. Some women really do choose not to get married, or don’t get married even if they’d prefer to. Calling them lesbians is grossly unfair. As a single woman myself (and one who does not live in sexual sin of any variety), I resent it.
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Like Cheryl, I appreciate Luke’s post at #10. There has been much innuendo about Condi Rice but nothing substantial about a possible lesbian relationship. I prefer to think that she is a brilliant Christian women who has chosen so far to live a single life.
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Kyle A at #13: My conclusion? I’d prefer that McCain choose Alan Keyes, Fred Thompson, Duncan Hunter, or Mike Huckabee–in that order.
I agree, both with the names and the order. Let’s hope McCain goes in that direction.
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Oh, we could only hope that McCain would pick Alan Keyes. He can make Ann Coulter look positively sweet.
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But Anlir, he’s black. If he were applying for a job or for college entrance, that’s all that would matter.
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Kyle A (#13)- You contradict yourself a little, perhaps w/out thinking. In Con #2 you say picking Rice would be pandering. Then you say Alan Keyes is your first choice for VP. Isn’t that pandering, both to the blacks and the extreme right wing of the party? I like Keyes, but fear he would sink the ticket.
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I think I suggested this a while back. As far as if she is or isn’t gay. I don’t give a flying fig. Some people are asexual and just don’t care for men or women. Se has chosen a career over a relationship and that has been her choice. As a republican I would love it if she would consider running. And by golly you cannot possible say she isn’t smart enought or experienced enough. Just the southern white trash weighing in with an opinion.
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I don’t think she is interested in seeking elective office. It takes a particular personality to run – and she may well understand herself as not being suited to it (a lot of career public servants choose that route over elective office because they know that they are not suited to campaigning).
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BTW, I copy-edited one of the newer books on Rice, Condi: The Life of a Steel Magnolia, by Mary Beth Brown (Nelson, 2008), and would recommend it. I haven’t read other books about Condi, but learned a lot about her life (more her public life than her private life) and found it interesting. I have an overall high regard for Condi Rice, but don’t think the abortion issue is negotiable.
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As a Dem, my out-of-the-box suggestion for you all, would be Gov. Bobby Jindal (LA). Especially if you have to run against Obama.
He’s got a hard core conversion narrative (albeit to the Catholic side of things).
He is building a rep as a reformer. (grab him now before things go haywire!)
He’s smart and good looking.
He heals the international problem with the GOP — this massive deterioration of the United States moral standing in the world. An Indian-heritage man in senior leadearship in the US is a powerful testimony.
—-
That said, the danger is that McCain pick some one who is to reactionary, or too conventionally conservative as a sop to the base. This would turn the party backward to defending the GWB era, rather than positioning the party for new challenges. The ascendency of McCain and of Obama alike testify that the era of the Bush policies is pretty much played out. (of course , if you want more of Bush, Clinton is clearly your gal — she’ll keep alot of the foreign policies PLUS give you something to cavil over for years to come. The nation won’t be happy, but hey!)
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I agree with Cheryl’s statement…”I have an overall high regard for Condi Rice, but don’t think the abortion issue is negotiable.”
And therefore have to disagree with Peter Leavitt’s comment of her being a “Christian woman.”
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#33 VS “And therefore have to disagree with Peter Leavitt’s comment of her being a “Christian Woman”"
HOW judgmental!!!! No wonder Christians are disliked. Have you ever really read her position on abortion? Abortion, yes is completely, irrevocably, wrong. But our Lord said the first commandment was to love HIM, then next to love our neighbor…we are to be KNOWN by our love for one another!
If Christians would spend more time loving and helping there would be fewer abortions. We can not outlaw all sin, this is not a Christian nation. I wish abortion would never occur. But that is most unlikely in our world, where many do NOT currently answer to our Lord. Instead, I would love to see abortion better regulated. All abortion clinics should meet health standards required everywhere else. Minors should have to notify parents, and sexual predators should be reported. Love and protect the sinners as our Lord would, don’t try so hard to prevent their sin, which you can never control. Only changed hearts lead to repentance, and only our loving Lord changes hearts, not laws.
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HS_Mom – No, it’s not judgmental. Condi is an extremely intelligent and educated woman. She can’t NOT know what an abortion is and yet she is still “pro-choice” so please hold your judgement against me in this instance.
Christians are disliked, no matter what. Doesn’t mean we’re supposed to go around patting everyone on the head and saying their anti-biblical views are ok. I spent 20 years working in and with PCC’s and am still actively involved, although more from a financial position at this point in my life.
What a sermon – but please, save it.
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#35 VS
You have judged her, and without full information,. And sermon, or not, I still think Christians should not publicly condemn one another. We are suppose to be known by our love. Biblically, if someone is living in sin, they are suppose to be confronted by 1, a group, then brought before the church. If Condi was performing abortions, I’d say that you are right in dismissing her as a Christian. She is not, and what she really said is:
Rice responded: “I believe if you go back to 2000, when I helped the president in the campaign, I said that I was, in effect, kind of Libertarian on this issue, and meaning by that that I have been concerned about a government role in this issue. I’m a strong proponent of parental choice, of parental notification. I’m a strong proponent of a ban on late-term abortion. These are all things that I think unite people and I think that that’s where we should be. I’ve called myself at times mildly pro-choice….What I do think is that we should not have the federal government in a position where it is forcing its views on one side or the other. So, for instance, I’ve tended to agree with those who do not favor federal funding for abortion, because I believe that those who hold a strong moral view on the other side should not be forced to fund it.”
FROM:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2005/mar/05031401.html
Sounds like a fine, Christian Woman to me. Again I say that we can not legislate repentance, only our loving Lord changes hearts, not laws.
Just because a highly placed figure does not fit neatly into the legalistic side of the pro-life box does not exclude them from salvation.
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I had that information HS Mom.
You are entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine.
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VS I am sorry I accused you of being uninformed. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. If I disagree with you, does that make me a non-Christian too?
I started my life in a very legalistic church and as I have grown in the Lord, I have realized how very little I know, and how quickly I am prone judge others. Situations are not as simple as they seem. People hold ideals an convictions for complex reasons. Jesus came to change the world one heart at a time, through his love and his lordship of individual lives. But Christians, every one I have met, are still in the process of being sanctified…never met a perfect one yet
Just because Condi does not believe the government should ban abortions does not mean that she approves of them morally. In her intelligence, I believe she is working to reduce and limit them in ways that are actually possible and acceptable to our culture.
Wouldn’t it be great if pro-lifers could quit being antagonistic and perfectionistic long enough to work together with the rest of the world, who mostly believe that late-term abortion is wrong and AT LEAST get a law against that? To work together to get the medical standards raised for abortion, so those sinners, who are sinning, don’t die in their sin from infections before they can be reached by the love of Christians??? If we were so kind and loving that the wanted to be with us and like us?????
I am reminded that we are warned of false prophets in the end times. Claiming that abortion and homosexuality are The SINS is definitely false. And way too easy. It is much easier to point to the speck in someone elses eye than to look at the plank in your own.
I personally am unfit to judge Condi’s salvation, but if she says she is saved…I will treat her like a sister, and leave my Lord to judge her.
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HS Mom – You are jumping to conclusions about things I’ve not said. What you seem willing to do for Condi, you seem unwilling to do for me.
I’m not looking for an argument with you. As I’ve stated, we’re both entitled to our opinions. You are accusing me of judging, when in fact, it’s more like you are judging me. I’m not here to “fight” with you.
I too grew up with a legalistic background and have come out of that – I have had some Christians accuse me of being too lax…however, I know that there are seven things God hates and one of those is the shedding of innocent blood. There’s no getting around that.
I don’t know as if I’ve ever commented on any of the homosexual threads on this blog and I certainly don’t believe I (nor most of the pro-life people I know) am antagonistic!! I think that is a very unfair and inaccurate judgement for you to make.
That’s all I have to say on the matter. Thank you.
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HS Mom
First of all, we don’t always agree here on a few issues, and that includes VS and myself, However, when you say something like this against her, as though you know what FALSE is when it comes to abortion and homosexuality, you are WRONG. They are sins. One has caused endless illness due to HIV/AIDS and the other one, which is abortion is a horrible killing of infants. That’s no “speck in anyone’s eye” – Anyone who can’t see that killing a child has their eyes covered and their ears plugged up. Does the Bible in any way shape or form say that these two sins are OK? …. or does the LORD say that anyone who speaks out against them has a “speck in their eye”?
Abortion is a horrific crime against God’s creation. Every single person has a chance to turn to GOD, we don’t have to provide better medical standards than we all ready have just to accommodate those who want to kill their children. Women know about Christ, if they die in their sins it will only happen because they didn’t turn to Christ, NOT because of better medical care.
We judge every day, we judge who we will associate with, we judge right from wrong according to God’s Word all the time. It would be cowardly for any Believer to deny anyone the right to speak out against abortion or homosexuality. What a false testimony that would be to all those around us, as we proclaim we are Believers in the LORD Jesus Christ.
You have been VERY unfair to VS-
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Victoria, could you imagine calling a place “heaven” filled with people like you?
Here’s some news you should know. Enjoy.
Rice Pressed On Fired Gay Linguists
Posted: February 7, 2007 – 5:00 pm ET
(Washington) Condoleezza Rice got a grilling Wednesday when she bemoaned “the foreign language deficit that we have” and how much the government needs Farsi and Arabic speakers during an appearance on Capitol Hill.
Rice was appearing before the House Foreign Affairs Committee justifying the State Department’s proposed budget increases.
After she complained several times that the department was facing a problem finding translators an exasperated Rep. Gary Ackerman (D-NY) asked why the department had not hired any of the translators fired by the Pentagon because they are gay and lesbian.
Under “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” more than two dozen Arabic translators have been dropped since the war in Iraq began.
“It seems that the Defense Department has a ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ when it comes to homosexuals. You don’t have such a prohibition in your agency, do you?” Ackerman asked Rice.
“No, we do not,” Rice replied.
“Well, it seems that the military has gone around and fired a whole bunch of people who speak foreign languages — Farsi and Arabic, etc.,” Ackerman told her.
The Congressman said that they had already been trained at government expense and had passed security tests.
“For some reason, the military seems more afraid of gay people than they are against terrorists, but they’re very brave with the terrorists,” Ackerman said..”If the terrorists ever got a hold of this information, they’d get a platoon of lesbians to chase us out of Baghdad.”
The remark drew some smiles from fellow members of the panel, but Rice was stone faced.
He then asked directly why the State Department had not looked at the fired gay linguists.
“Can we marry up those two — or maybe that’s the wrong word — can we have some kind of union of those two issues?” Ackerman asked.
“Congressman Ackerman, I’m not aware of the availability of people, but I certainly will look [at] what we are doing right now,” Rice replied, adding that the department had increased staff in many critical areas but needs additional people at higher levels.
“But maybe you might find some of those competent people among those who are recently unemployed.”
“We’ll look at it,” is all Ackerman could get Rice to commit to.
“Secretary Rice would have no trouble finding gay linguists,” said Sharon Alexander, deputy director of policy for Servicemembers Legal Defense Network.
“In fact, our government could go a long way in addressing the shortage of language expertise by doing just as Congressman Ackerman suggests. SLDN would be happy to introduce Secretary Rice to our many clients who speak Arabic but have been dismissed because of the ban,” said Alexander.
Since the ban on gays serving openly was implemented a decade ago more than 11,000 men and women have been dismissed under “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” according to the Government Accountability Office.
Last month Rep. Marty Meehan (D-Mass.) said that he will reintroduce legislation to repeal “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” early in this session of Congress and Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Oregon) has told Defense Secretary Robert Gates he wants an answer on the new secretary’s position on DADT by March 16
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Rdean
I said nothing about Condi Rice in my post. It was all about abortion and homosexuality.
Reading a few lines of your ‘L E N G T H Y’ post, I didn’t bother to read the rest!
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Victoria: I said nothing about Condi Rice in my post. It was all about abortion and homosexuality.
Of course it was. That’s all your posts are ever about.
But this thread is about Condi Rice. So how about staying on topic?
kthxbye.
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Well dear Vicki, my post was all about cutting off your nose to spite your face. How hate can hurt. I didn’t expect you to understand and I did expect you to get bored. My how you live down to every expectation.
One day, you will have to do us a favor and give us your version of heaven. When you do, warn us and make it long so I can get a bag of popcorn and cold beer. I’m sure it will be a hoot.
Of course, a heaven without the gays will be a cold and colorless place, not the land of milk and cookies many dream about.
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Victoria and VS, I am not trying to insult, judge, or pick on VS.
HIV is horrible…no disagreement!
Abortion is horrible…and a sin…no disagreement!
The comment about the plank was aimed at the “we pro-lifers” at the beginning of the paragraph. In general Christians are more known for their judgment than their love. The false prophets are Christians in authority that lead the body to believe that abortion is the only or most important issue in politics.
And I am not trying to argue with VS. She is here to discuss and defend herself, Condi is not. I just differ with VS that we can *judge* someone’s heart or salvation by their political views.
I am in-experienced in blogging and better at math and science than writing, so please don’t take offense at what is essentially a wish for people to “Stop and think” to consider all of God’s Word, not just one topic. And to consider his primary commandment…Love.
And I never said that abortion and homosexuality are not sins, they are. But often it seems that they are the “ONLY” sins. And yes there are seven things God hates…shedding of innocent blood is only one of those seven. How bout the other 6…what political views do Christians need to cover them? Also where else in this world is innocent blood being shed…do you, do I, do Christians in general speak out as adamantly about that???
And “All women” do not know about Christ. A large portion of abortions are inner city black women…have they all been told and shown Christ’s love?
Victoria “we don’t have to provide better medical standards than we all ready have just to accommodate those who want to kill their children”
If they choose to sin, they should have substandard medical care? Do you realize how un-merciful that statement sounds? Just imposing equal requirements on abortion clinics to medical facilities is not encouraging abortions…It will discourage them and make them more expensive! That is why the pro-choice movement fights so hard against regulation of the industry.
Believers need to speak out about abortion and homosexuality, and do…to an abundance. How about speaking out against divorce in the church for a change? Or how about speaking out against the lack of unity in Christ’s body? Or pride?
Abortion is not a root problem. Take care of the root, and the fruit will disappear. People need Christ. Christ will grow their morals.
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hs_mom – 45
YOU WRITE:…
“Believers need to speak out about abortion and homosexuality, and do…to an abundance. How about speaking out against divorce in the church for a change? Or how about speaking out against the lack of unity in Christ’s body? Or pride?”
HS, this is a blog, we respond and speak about what we wish, pro-life is an issue regarding Condi Rice because she is pro-choice. Divorce has nothing to do with this woman as she has never had one, because she’s never married.
So now you want to tell us what to post about? You don’t want abortion to be spoken about? Why would that be?….. a child is an innocent human being, who has no will to run from death, never to breath one tiny little bit of air, and you think divorce is a subject which should take the place of abortion? I don’t!
YOU WRITE:…..
“Abortion is not a root problem. Take care of the root, and the fruit will disappear. People need Christ. Christ will grow their morals.”
Abortion (murder) and sexual sins are one of the root problems, they are selfish, self centered sins, which GOD has made clear in HIS Word.
I’m far more concerned about the unborn children who are killed every single day than I am in finding more medical care for those who can’t think of anyone other than themselves, to KILL a child.
I went to the funeral of over 16,000 unborn little infants one Sunday (I believe it was 1986) in California. The Hearses drove up with the coffins, all six of them. Shiny beautiful dark wood with brass handles, there were about 300 or more Believers standing silently sobbing as they carried those coffins stuffed with children who would never ever grow up, never laugh, or play, never marry. We were all sorrowful, it was a horrible sight. The number being just over 16,000 is a lot of human beings, all created in the image of GOD, but were aborted because those who were carrying them were selfish.
Don’t try to tell some of us how to feel or what to post about because we pick the threads and topics that are very significant in our country and the world at large. Homosexuality has crept into our schools at an alarming rate, due to the school administrators, teachers etc. As parents we are concerned for each and every one of the children.
So, I would suggest you leave the choice up to us as to what we post about!
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It is understood that Condi Rice has no desire for an elected position. That being known, I have a more suitable person of color, education, conservative ideology and would certainly bring alot of youth.
Former Maryland governor Michael Steele
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Michael Steele was only Lt. Governor. But he would be a viable option.
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46 Victoria, you said “So, I would suggest you leave the choice up to us as to what we post about!”
And I do…no problem, I don’t tell you what to write, think, or feel. But still is the issue, are Christians known by their love???? Are you? I wish to inspire you to biblically think through the issues you champion, and how you present yourself.
I believe you are trying to purposely misunderstand me. I am a conservative Christian…on your side, on your team, whatever you want to call it. I agree that abortion is wrong and a sin, I agree that homosexuality should not be celebrated and is a sin. Still, is it biblical to deem someone non-Christian for not sharing your political views? Is it right to blast Condi when she is most likely our sister in Christ?
My heart breaks over those infants, BUT their mothers and fathers are still here and in need of Christ. Can you, with Christ, hate the sin but love the sinners?
And I chose divorce as a rhetorical question, because it is one of “those” things God hates.
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His Mom – 49
Do you feel yourself qualified to inspire those of us who feel differently than you do? What kind of love is there in abortion or homosexuality? Are you inspired to inspire me to say it’s not sin?
I would challenge you to read the Scriptures and follow God’s Will for YOUR life. You haven’t inspired me to do anything but question your motives regarding abortion. Instead of asking “ARE you?” I would challenge you to look within yourself and seek those changes which you should make in YOUR OWN LIFE.
No you are accusing me of purposely misunderstanding you? And you talk about the “speck’s” in ones eye earlier?
That’s great, then fight for the rights of the unborn and don’t tell the rest of us what to do if we don’t jump on your band-wagon against divorce, which are two different things, as you did earlier:
1. A child in the womb can’t run away from death, or the doctor who pulls their life away, tugging at their small limbs. NO CHOICE for the little one.
2. One who is willing to divorce for any reason is an adult, they most certainly were given choices.
I have not ‘blasted Condi’, . . she is pro-choice, whether she is a sister in Christ I don’t know. I haven’t met a Born Again sister YET, who would agree that abortion is OK with God. If Condi Rice is truly a Believer she would not agree to a pro-choice stance, that would be against God’s Word. Too many people are willing to ’sweep abortion’ under the carpet, and believe that people can be agreeing to sin, living in sin and still be Believers, I DON’T AGREE. You can believe what you wish.
The Bible says we will know them by their fruit. And where is the fruit of pro-choice? That is the deadest fruit of all. It is the fruit of the womb, which a selfish woman has deemed to be dismissive, that a doctor with no morals has agreed to kill upon request, upon payment for killing the child.
I ask you again: Where is the fruit of those who are pro-choice. That fruit has been discarded like so much trash, and there are so called ‘believers’ who don’t bat an eye when this takes place. In fact, they don’t even believe its their place to judge. Where does it say in the Bible we are to turn our backs on murder? Please give me chapter and verse?
YOU WRITE:……..
“My heart breaks over those infants, BUT their mothers and fathers are still here and in need of Christ. Can you, with Christ, hate the sin but love the sinners?”
Am I on trial? . . . . I think not! Have I said I hate the sinner? Why do you put words in my mouth, or question my motives?
God hates pride did you know that? Proud and haughty scorner is his name, who dealeth in proud wrath. Proverbs 21:24
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DO YOU HEAR THIS VOICE, its so small?
Please don’t take away my life
I’m so small, I want to live
I won’t cry to much
I want you to love me
Please give me a chance
My bones are still growing
My heart even beats
My arms are getting stronger
My eyes can’t see, but they will
I sometimes hear your voice and
I LOVE YOU
Please Mommy don’t let them kill me
I promise to try and make you proud
I’m so little can you give me a chance
I didn’t do anything wrong did I?
I want to live, can I?
What can I do to change your mind?
Please ask GOD what to do, HE will help you
I love you mommy
Copyright © 2008 Victoria
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#50 Victoria
Well, one last chance at a rational discussion with you, then I give up! And wow, sorry this got so long, but you had so many questions and comments to respond to:
YOU WRITE:…….. “Do you feel yourself qualified to inspire those of us who feel differently than you do? What kind of love is there in abortion or homosexuality? Are you inspired to inspire me to say it’s not sin? “
Qualified, maybe, commanded, YES…Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward LOVE and good deeds.
There is no love, except possibly self love, in abortion. Homosexuality is a kind of search for love in all the wrong places.
I am trying to inspire you, while we agree abortion is a sin, to first put on love and Eph. 4:15 Instead, speaking the truth in LOVE, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
YOU WRITE:…….. “I would challenge you to read the Scriptures and follow God’s Will for YOUR life. You haven’t inspired me to do anything but question your motives regarding abortion. Instead of asking “ARE you?” I would challenge you to look within yourself and seek those changes which you should make in YOUR OWN LIFE. “
Thank you for the challenge. It is my daily battle and goal, as I hope yours would be also.
YOU WRITE:…….. “No you are accusing me of purposely misunderstanding you? And you talk about the “speck’s” in ones eye earlier? “
When you pull quotes out of context and accuse me of not believing abortion is a sin, I feel a bit misunderstood.
YOU WRITE:…….. “That’s great, then fight for the rights of the unborn and don’t tell the rest of us what to do if we don’t jump on your band-wagon against divorce, which are two different things, as you did earlier:”
I do fight for the rights of the unborn. But I also try to first follow the first & second commandment…Matthew 22:37-39 Jesus replied: “‘LOVE the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘LOVE your neighbor as yourself.’ My band-wagon is not divorce…it is LOVE!
YOU WRITE:…….. “1. A child in the womb can’t run away from death, or the doctor who pulls their life away, tugging at their small limbs. NO CHOICE for the little one. 2. One who is willing to divorce for any reason is an adult, they most certainly were given choices.”
True, and I agree, emphatically if that helps with understanding between us. But still I say that child is now in a better place, with no pain. Their parents are here and need Christ.
YOU WRITE:…….. “I have not ‘blasted Condi’, . . she is pro-choice, whether she is a sister in Christ I don’t know. I haven’t met a Born Again sister YET, who would agree that abortion is OK with God. If Condi Rice is truly a Believer she would not agree to a pro-choice stance, that would be against God’s Word. Too many people are willing to ’sweep abortion’ under the carpet, and believe that people can be agreeing to sin, living in sin and still be Believers, I DON’T AGREE. You can believe what you wish.”
You did not blast Condi, this all started with my questioning VS judging Condi. I responded that Christians are supposed to LOVE one another. If you are not SURE that Christ has rejected her, then she and you “should” treat Condi with love. Condi is not living in sin…she is not encouraging, having or performing abortions, she just does not agree to the need to stop non-Christian sinners from sinning by law.
Sinners are incapable of not sinning without the power of the Spirit. We can agree to disagree about her, that is fine…but she should be treated with love and respect. John 13:34 A new command I give you: LOVE one another. As I have loved you, so you must LOVE one another.
YOU WRITE:…….. “The Bible says we will know them by their fruit. And where is the fruit of pro-choice? That is the deadest fruit of all. It is the fruit of the womb, which a selfish woman has deemed to be dismissive, that a doctor with no morals has agreed to kill upon request, upon payment for killing the child. I ask you again: Where is the fruit of those who are pro-choice. That fruit has been discarded like so much trash, and there are so called ‘believers’ who don’t bat an eye when this takes place. In fact, they don’t even believe its their place to judge. Where does it say in the Bible we are to turn our backs on murder? Please give me chapter and verse?”
Do you know who “them” is in that verse who we are to recognize by their fruit??? False prophets, not sinners. Matthew 7:15-23. Sinners are not capable of producing any good fruit and it can not be expected of them. Even we Christ followers only have good fruit when it is from the Spirit. Gal 5:22-23 But the Spirit produces the fruit of LOVE, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control
YOU WRITE:…….. “Am I on trial? . . . . I think not! Have I said I hate the sinner? Why do you put words in my mouth, or question my motives? God hates pride did you know that? Proud and haughty scorner is his name, who dealeth in proud wrath. Proverbs 21:24
No, you are not on trial. And I have not put words in your mouth. Yes, God hates pride.
My summary: We should love God first, then second love one another. Romans 13:8-10 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to LOVE one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” a and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “LOVE your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to its neighbor. THEREFORE LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.
Now I am done…
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hs_mom – 52
Loving ones neighbor and showing love doesn’t not keep one from speaking up boldly against abortion and homosexuality. We can do them all at the same time.
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Matthew 7:17
A Believer brings forth “good fruit” they don’t agree to sin, or the practice of sin. There are many people in this world who for the most part do some good things, but when it comes to the ways of the world, they chime in and agree with sin. This would be true of abortion and homosexuality.
33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Matthew 12
There are many who do ‘good things’ from some appearance, but when you look further, and find that they are willing to agree to pro-choice that isn’t the ‘good fruit’ its evil.
There is no love in killing a child, nor is there any love when ANYONE agrees that pro-choice is an option.
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Victoria_53
Once again we agree. Speaking boldly against any sin is possible while showing love, as long as one speaks in love…with kindness and tact.
And there is no love in killing a child, nor is there love when any Christian agrees that pro-choice is and option for themselves, no Christian should ever murder a child!
But we can not control or legislate sin for un-believers, no matter how horrific the sin. And that is where I believe we differ. I agree with you 100% for Christians living in God’s power and under his conviction. And I wish that it were TRUTH that to make a law against sin would stop it, but it won’t and it never has. The world needs Jesus, needs their hearts changed.
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Vicki,
I found your soulmate.
http://www.hrcactioncenter.org/campaign/ok_rep_sally_kern_cen/8u673uu9z7bewkjj?
Last week, a secret recording emerged of a disturbing speech by Oklahoma Representative Sally Kern stating that homosexuality is a bigger threat to our nation than “terrorism or Islam.” Rep. Kern has refused to apologize for her remarks.
#50: Have I said I hate the sinner?
Your kidding, right? Once again, I ask you, do you think your God wants someone who just memorizes and repeats mystical text? Boring.
Since God made everything with a purpose, he made the gays and gave them all that talent. That’s why their contributions are so great from such a tiny minority. I bet these are the type God want’s in heaven. Happy, good, colorful people.
If God hated the gays so much, why did they get all that talent? Things to make you go, “hmmmm”.
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