UnChristian art
I’ve been re-reading Flannery O’Connor’s Mystery and Manners, which is filled with her essays on the craft of writing, and in particular, writing as a Christian. Her stories were notably violent, and filled with depraved characters. She constructed a milieu of fallen men in order to reveal the grace of God in a sin-stricken world. Nonetheless, she didn’t sit well with many good Christians. She tells of receiving a letter from one of them, who:
“…informed me that when the tired reader comes home at night, he wishes to read something that will lift up his heart. And it seems her heart had not been lifted up by anything of mine she had read.”
It’s the same reason, I suppose, Christian-themed bookstores do such a booming business, offering music, movies, and stories free of the depravity that seems increasingly to define secular culture. O’Connor, however, rejected the notion that all depravity in fiction serves the same function. Her grotesque characters, she felt, illuminated the truly grotesque qualities of sinful man, as opposed to wooden characters who briefly struggle with sin that is not so embedded in their flesh that they can’t come neatly and completely to Christ a hundred pages later. “I think that if her heart had been in the right place,” O’Connor said of the complainant, “it would have been lifted up.” In another essay in this volume, she writes almost by way of explanation:
“Catholic readers are constantly being offended and scandalized by novels that they don’t have the fundamental equipment to read in the first place, and often these are works that are permeated with a Christian spirit.”
It was criticism that could have easily extended to Protestants in her day, though not perhaps in ours, because it’s far easier to immerse ourselves in sterilized entertainment. Starting with the assumption that what comes into our minds can infect what comes out of our mouths and hands, we seek to neither see nor hear evil.
Unfortunately, this instinct, in the realm of art, carries us toward artificial truth — which is to say falsehood — in the form of sentimentality and unreality. Following that line of reasoning leads me to conclude that many of the novels labeled as Christian are sinful, because they portray the world of God falsely, with dimensionless characters, unrealistic dialogue, and pat resolutions.
O’Connor said of the Christian writer:
“An affirmative vision cannot be demanded of him without limiting his freedom to observe what man has done with the things of God.”
And observing what man has done with the things of God, it seems, is essential to understanding, in turn, what God has done with and for the likes of man. There is not redemption, in other words, without a fall, nor grace without sin. For O’Connor and other serious Christian writers, this reality led them to write books that would never be allowed on the shelves of a typical Christian bookstore.
This leads to an interesting possibility: that our local public library has more genuinely Christian literature — which is to say books that tell a truer story of the fall of man and his redemption by Christ — than most Christian booksellers.
If that conclusion is true, I wonder what it means for modern American Christian culture? Might our self-insulation — intended to protect our hearts and minds — actually be harmful? In my next post I’ll explore the idea that Christianized art can undermine Christianity. In the meantime, I’m curious about your reactions. What ought Christian bookstores be selling, and where do you draw the line with what you read, listen to, and view?

















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back to top57 Comments to “UnChristian art”
I love O’Conner. She was brilliant. She is one of the very few Christian writers I will read.
All writers wrestle with ultimate things. I find I can be more uplifted, find more humor and find more truth in a Tan, Kingslover or Smiley book than most of the mediocre (at best) “Christian” (what exactly does the mean?) fiction that is out there.
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I can follow Tony’s reasoning, and think that I agree with it, but it all falls apart when I actually try to read O’Connor. Attempted Wise Blood a few months ago, and walked away in confusion. Just didn’t get it. But I scratch my head over HSK’s poetry selections, too. Is there a Flannery O’Connor For Dummies guide?
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In my next post I’ll explore the idea that Christianized art can undermine Christianity.
I look forward to that.
Adios, I think what defines “Christian art” is that it:
(1) Is expressly religious in theme.
(2) Resolves a story or situation by overt Christian faith. Perhaps the protagonist finds the Lord, or protagonists who already are Christian are victorious, etc.
(3) It is sanitized of any objectionable language, explicit sex or violence.
I think what defines actual Christian art (as opposed to the sanitized kind) is that it:
(1) Deals realistically with the human condition, including when necessary the objectionable language, sex and violence that comes with it.
(2) Has an underlying theme, that may or may not overt, that this human condition is neither ideal nor natural.
(3) May never factor in any explicit appeal to religion at all but nonetheless communicates the idea that something is broken in the world.
I think what gets stocked in Christian bookstores is based on the first set of criteria, not the second. By that measure, the Bible is in those stores as an exception to the rule!
I’ve said before that when I listen to Christian music (as I do) I much prefer those songwriters who have experienced some hardship and brokenness in their life. Give me a world-weary Randy Stonehill or Rich Mullins any day over a fresh-faced 20-something whose songs just repeat platitudes he heard in church.
I’ve also explained the underlying morality of Sex and the City, although nobody seemed impressed.
I think that any work that deals with the real world can be seen as Christian in the sense that if it isn’t overtly about redemption, then it has to do with human frailty and failings. Stories that don’t do this aren’t dealing with reality.
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Yeah. Sex and the City is a hard sell. There are easier cases to make. For instance, NYPD Blue struck me as thoroughly consistent with a Christian’s take on the world, while Touched by an Angel was about as anti-Christian as entertainment could get.
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I really appreciated reading this. I enjoy writing myself and this is an oppinion I have held for a long time. It’s good to hear it expressed and considered.
In my case I particular try to write fiction catered to pre-teens and teenaged kids because I feel like there is very little out there for them. I am often disappointed at how unrelateable most Christian fiction is, I can’t see where these completely pious people are coming from since their struggles end so abruptly.
I feel that, if a writer is a Christian, they should expect their worldview to come through loud and clear no matter what genre they write in and who they are writing for.
As a writer who is trying to write for children in particular, I have a favorite quote from a favorite author, C.S. Lewis, talking about writing The Chronicles of Narnia; a well-known success in Christian literature that has also been accepted among non-Christians:
“Some people seem to think that I began by asking myself how I could say something about Christianity to children: then fixed on the fairy tale as an instrument, then collected information about child psychology and decided what age group I’d write for: then drew up a list of basic Christian truths and hammered out ‘allegories’ to embody them. This is all pure moonshine. I couldn’t write in that way. It all began with images: a faun carrying an umbrella, a queen on a sledge, a magnificent lion. At first there wasn’t anything Christian about them: that element pushed itself in of its own accord.”
I hope to see more Chrisitan authors begin from a realistic view of the fallen world and then place a seed of the hope that they have inside their writing. I agree that sometimes it seems like non-Christians have a better grasp of what it means to search for redemption that is real. That they are searching for answers while asking the right questions questions; I find that inspiring and uplifting.
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RR,
I recommend Paul Elie’s The Life You Save May Be Your Own, which is an intertwined account of the pilgrimages of O’Connor, Walker Percy, Thomas Merton, and Dorothy Day. He has a nice explication of Wise Blood. You might also try her short story, “Parker’s Back,” which is a pretty straightforward attack on what she saw as Protestant Manicheanism, the notion that all things of the flesh are inherently suspect and wicked, and that God is an abstract spirit.
SteveG,
Twain wrote once that he always chuckled when he saw that a school or library which had banned one of his books allowed children to read the Old Testament.
Siri,
You might appreciate O’Connor’s statement:
“Your beliefs will be the light by which you see, but they will not be what you see and they will not be a substitute for seeing.”
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Leave it to Flannery O’Connor to finally prompt me to register and comment.
RR, I too was initially confused by Wise Blood, as by many of O’Connor’s other stories. I found a very helpful article here:
http://credenda.org/issues/18-2thema.php
In short, O’Connor’s genius is the idea of “dark grace.” We Christians–especially, perhaps, American Christians–have some expectation that grace is warm and fuzzy and makes us feel good. Sometimes that is true, but it is not always, as is evident in Scripture. The grace that brought Samson back to God and allowed his redemptive, sacrificial, last act is anything but warm and fuzzy. In truth, the grace that we receive from Christ’s death itself is terrible in its horror. O’Connor brings this into modern times–how some people, stricken as we are, only find grace through dark and terrible times.
I hope that helps.
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WOODLIEF: Might our self-insulation — intended to protect our hearts and minds — actually be harmful?
It’s a conscious addiction and a bad example for the younger ones. My Dad was a knowledgeable and subtle person, but sadly in his last years he shut out the world, and his grandkids took to climbing out windows to avoid him. He became dependent on the soothing, sincere voices of Christian radio. He hated the neutrality of information, and couldn’t bear to hear NPR on a long drive, because he needed a comforting voice to read him “today’s good news” from the Bible. My fearless father was scared to death.
I’m proud to say, he was not always like that. He overcame adversity and exemplified integrity, and distinguished himself. It was late in life that he failed to comprehend the Christian right and became powerless to resist the voices which took possession of his brain and intimidated his heart.
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On a more personal note, the thing that shook me about O’Connor’s stories was my sympathy with the character who inevitably turned out to be the villain. All along, I would justify this–misguided, maybe, but at least sincere–character, identifying with him at least in part. Then, at the close, I would be shocked to find him the one who, all along, had been deeply, deeply wrong–often hypocritical to the extreme. And I would feel chastised along with him.
It was convicting.
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Wow. Good post Tony.
I was going to say; “Does this mean we shouldn’t read the Bible? There’s some pretty horrific things recorded in there.” But SteveG beat me to it….
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Great post Tony.
Your use of the word “grotesque” reminded me of the grotesques and gargoyles perched atop some of my favorite Christian art. I tend to think that they have the same function, to contrast the depravity of the world outside the cathedral with the feeling of the presence of God once you enter his house.
(I hope you come back to DC again before June)
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Larkspur,
I don’t think your thinking is too far from O’Connor’s. In “A Good Man Is Hard To Find,” for example, it was the murderer called the Misfit who was wrestling out his faith, while the pious grandmother seemed farthest from it. I think O’Connor said later that she always imagined he found Jesus in a prison somewhere.
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SteveG: You’ve explained the underlying morality of Sex and the City? I’m impressed because I kind of agree.
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I think Tony is being narrow-minded, at least as much as the Christian reader he quoted for whom O’Connor did not sit well. But in a different way.
Is it possible for Christian art deal with violence? Sure.
Can it include depraved or grotesque characters? Yes.
Should a Christian artist have the freedom to observe what man has done with the things of God? Absolutely.
But can a Christian artist deal sentimentally with life? Tony does not seem to think so. Tony, are you necessarily equating sentimentality with falsehood? Do you realize that gratuitous grotesqueness and cynicism can also be false? If so, can you say so?
It is a false conclusion that to compose up-lifting or sentimental material is to “portray the world of God falsely.” It can be false, but not purely because it was “up-lifting” and “sentimental.” That some Christians focus on positive themes or show the good triumphing is not “sinful.” Jesus told some wholesome, uplifting and sentimental parables and they were not false.
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I can follow Tony’s reasoning, and think that I agree with it, but it all falls apart when I actually try to read O’Connor. Attempted Wise Blood a few months ago, and walked away in confusion. Just didn’t get it.
Don’t feel bad, brother. I tried and tried to “get” O’Connor, but never could. Of course, that has nothing to do with why I’m no longer a believer, but I “got” plenty of other Christian writers, so it’s not that I wasn’t a “real” Christian that kept me from “getting” her. FC’s stories just seemed strange and pointless.
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Is it true that public libraries have more genuinely Christian literature because they “tell a truer story of the fall of man and his redemption by Christ — than most Christian booksellers.”
Do they? Tony, are you using hyperbole or do you really think so?
I’m a huge library fan and a Christian bookstore fan. I affirm the value of both resources. But I carry no need to disparage Christian bookstores or judge them for being less “Christian” than libraries. It seems narrow-minded to be so judgmental of Christian bookstores. I’m certainly am not disparaging libraries.
Outside Christian bookstores, however, there is a lot of glorification of the fall of man going on out there in the name of art and I certainly have a right to express that conviction. It’s not censorship to offer my view. And others have a right to say I’m being less “Christian” because I criticize art that I think glorifies evil. But I would take great strength from knowing that only God can make that judgment.
A choice to focus on wholesome or sentimental themes does NOT necessarily imply “self-insulation.” The good is part of life too. Let’s deal realistically with the bad (in life and in art), but let’s also NOT insulate ourselves and each other from the good either.
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Thanks Joel Mark for writing exactly what I was thinking.
It’s not that we’re looking for a sanitized environment (I AM looking forward to eternity), but we go overboard making justification for sordid details of sin.
For example, I heard a sermon where the speaker went into great detail about his reasoning through temptation of whether to click over to the porn channel in his hotel room and another time when an internet search resulted in an image of a naked woman. He could have used the same story, without the detail. My sons were listening, probably forming the same images in their heads. Sometimes these unnecessary details awaken interest that just wasn’t there before.
Words paint pictures. They are very powerful. Sometimes the pictures are actually enticing to the young or to our weaker brothers. I think we can err on both sides, but I tend to go with something trite like….
Php 4:8
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable–if anything is excellent or praiseworthy–think about such things.
Anyway, that’s my two cents.
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MOMOFSIX,
Your two cents are rare and precious coins worth millions to people with good ’sense’ (pun intended).
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JOEL MARK: there is a lot of glorification of the fall of man going on out there in the name of art . . . I criticize art that I think glorifies evil.
Give ‘em hell, Joel. If it glorifies, it’s propaganda.
Glorify: exalt, elevate, dignify, enhance, augment, promote; praise, celebrate, honor, extol, lionize, acclaim, applaud, hail; glamorize, idealize, romanticize, enshrine, immortalize.
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The problem is that “never the “twain shall meet.” You will have trouble finding (true) redemption on secular shelves and also have trouble finding realistic depictions of “the fall of man” on the Christian book store shelves. Occasionally a book crosses over (i.e. Gilead) but it is usually the secular side that gives in based on pure talent and skill (again, Gilead which won the Pulitzer Prize). I had an established Christian author sit across from me at a writer’s conference and tell me that the gatekeepers in the Christian book publishing world are the book store owners. If they don’t like it, it won’t get shelved. If it won’t get shelved, it won’t sell and the publishers and agent’s know it. They base all of their decisions on what they think a select group will “approve.” And that is a shame. I wonder how many would-be Flannery O-Connor’s never see the light of day because of it?
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I’ve read a lot of books. Many of them were Christian, most were not. In my experience, the Christian books were far more likely to be pathetic as literature, and they tended not to have all this inconvenient sex, violence, and language. There are of course notable exceptions to both these rules. Often, however, it seems like in order to be successful, literature merely has to be Christian.
C. S. Lewis used a fair amount of profanity and violence in his adult works, considering the time period. Though it is not pervasive, and there is no explicit sexuality, mature themes abound.
Lastly, another thing I had a hard time wrapping my mind around was the entire genre of Christian romance. In no way am I disparaging those people who somehow find it edifying, but that’s how it is for me. Romance in general I find to be drivel, because plot is minimal and usually ridiculous, and the main driving forces behind the story are the sex and the resolution. When the novel is Christian, most of the sensual appeal is removed and what’s left is even more incoherent. Also, I feel like Christian romance, unless it has some greater purpose than the romance itself, inherently endorses things that are incompatible with Christianity. Most of these things are variations of materialism.
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Jaysephus, that is an excellent point
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depicting depravity in what context?
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Cicero,
I appreciate that you see notable exceptions on both sides.
I’ve read a lot too and my experience differs from yours. There may be pathetic works in Christian bookstores but I have learned to see them coming and pass them by. But the same is true in secular bookstores (and supermarkets too ya know), if not even more pathetic in some cases.
What can be pathetic is gratuitous violence, sex and language. It subtracts from the qualtiy of the art and the whole reading experience. It can be cheap Thus, I like Reg’s comment; “depravity in what context?”
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In the early 30s, there was so much smutty content on the silver screen that guidelines for makiing movies got tougher. In my humble opinion, the movies after 1935 imediately got much more artistic and better in quality. Instead of raw and easy shock content, writers had to apply more subtlety and nuance. It made for more distinguished movies and more interesting plot developments. The audience was more respected. Movies began to seek a better balance for appealing to both the head and the heart together.
Remember the Apollo #? movie with Tom Hanks? The director claimed in an interview that the profanity was necessary to depict the panic & danger realistically. Fine. But then, the real astronaut decided to publicly assert (I heard him on TV) that if he really wanted “realism,” the movie maker would have included NO profanity at all. He said that in true life those astronauts did NOT use profanity. He said, “We were professionals throughout the experience.” (my paraphrase from memory). He just wnated to make that clear and debunk the “realism” excuse.
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I find O’Connor difficult to read. Part of the reason it is difficult to read is that I have to come face to face with my own depravity. I’m afraid that too often Christians tend to view the Grandmother in the Misfit as a good woman and completely overlook her willfulness and selfishness…the everyday kind of sin that all of us need to put off and frequently don’t. O’Connor helps us see the ugliness of our own sin.
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“the ugliness of our own sin” in what context?
In my experience, this is one of those pet reformed doctrines, no, it is THE pet doctrine, lifted up out of the very context of the whole word of God and exalted to the continual forefront of our minds. IS this truly what God wants us focusing on?
“He shall be like a tree that grows, set by the waterside–not a weed that scorches in the wind, set by the thoughts of his own “weediness”
That bringeth forth fruit in its season, not thoughts of despair and resulting actions…
Whose leaf also does not whither, and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper,but not if he is required to continue feeding on what he is when he is not planted by the rivers of waters.
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Alisa at #13: Good to be agreed with! I wonder if we’re thinking so for the same reasons, and I hope so.
Joel Mark at #25: In the early 30s, there was so much smutty content on the silver screen that guidelines for makiing movies got tougher. In my humble opinion, the movies after 1935 imediately got much more artistic and better in quality. Instead of raw and easy shock content, writers had to apply more subtlety and nuance. It made for more distinguished movies and more interesting plot developments. The audience was more respected. Movies began to seek a better balance for appealing to both the head and the heart together.
The problem with this is that the Hays Code didn’t just ban language or sex. It dictated specific limitations to the themes that could be depicted and how certain types of characters could be portrayed. (Religious leaders could not be portrayed as villains or comic figures, illegal drug use couldn’t be portrayed, and so on.)
Many good movies were made under the Code, but so were many bland, formulaic ones. (The same is true today but not because of an external code.)
I DO agree with you that using shocking things for no purpose other than to shock makes for shoddy entertainment. But I am a fan of the current ratings system. It allows people who want to make more explicit films to do so, and it allows people who don’t want to see them to avoid them.
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#27, while not trying to argue about your experience, it’s my perspective that many Christians spend much of their time thinking that they’re really pretty good and do need to be confronted with the ugliness of their own sin – the everyday things like complaining, failing to deal with one another in love, failing to love and worship God as we should – in order to value and cherish the grace of God in sending a Savior. Jesus said that it’s not the healthy ones who need a doctor. If we don’t realize how desperately sick we are, we don’t realize how desperately we need a Savior, and we don’t realize the enormous cost of our salvation.
As Christians, we are to fix our eyes on Jesus and focus on him, not on ourselves. But we also need to see ourselves as we are without Christ, in order to appreciate our need for a Redeemer. I think it was John Newton who said, “I am a great sinner, and Christ is a great Savior.” A portrayal of either the depravity of human beings or the goodness of God without the other paints a lopsided, incomplete picture.
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Joel (#14) asked:
“Tony, are you necessarily equating sentimentality with falsehood?”
I should have been clear that by “sentimental” I don’t mean nice, but false, in the same way that pornography is false, by showing only partial truth in order to elicit a targeted emotion. Just as a great deal of popular secular fiction is false by way of depicting a world without God, a great deal of Christian fiction is false by way of sentimentality. It is sanitized pornography for churchgoers.
Joel (#16) “sees no need to disparage Christian bookstores,” and feels I’m being narrow-minded for doing so. With all due respect, Joel, can you name just three popular Christian novels that are NOT sentimental, poorly written, stocked with caricatures rather than real characters, afflicted with wooden dialogue, and bereft of compelling imagery? Peretti, Lucado, and LaHaye mean well, but their prose is practically unbearable to the literate eye. And the Christian equivalent of bodice-rippers, these bodice-stretchers, as I call them, which seem to take more and more space on the Christian bookstore’s paltry fiction shelves, are beneath deploring.
I think perhaps where we disagree is on the definition of good writing. I can’t concede that it’s entirely subjective, however. If talent were additive, and you summed up all the fiction talent in your local Christian bookstore, it wouldn’t be fit to lift the pen that Dostoevsky held, or O’Connor, for that matter. And that, I believe, is because we Christians have come to accept bad art in the name of “wholesomeness,” and thereby given sanction to falseness, to sentimentality, to ugliness, to anti-intellectualism, all of which are sins in the sight of the God of glorious creation. Being made in his image, we ought to strive harder to emulate his example, and to hold writers who claim to serve him to a higher standard of creative beauty.
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29-
It has not been my experience so much that the Christians I know can’t see their sin, oh yeah, complaining, etc, you’ll always find that, but the
ones I know TALK about how sinful we are, etc.,even their complaining, to the exclusion of the truth found in Psalm 1, which sets the stage for the rest of the book, and for out lives.
Why should we not argue from the text forward, instead of imposing our definitions on what we see around us and forcing the Biblical data through that grid??
Why should we not have immense comfort in the truth of Psalm one, enough comfort that it comes out of our mouths?
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Tony wrote; I should have been clear that by “sentimental” I don’t mean nice, but false…”
Then, Tony, you are both misunderstanding and misusing the word. “Sentimental” does NOT mean “false”, not be any stretch. Sympathy is a sentiment. Compassion is a sentiment. Sentiment implies a certain responsiveness or sensitivity to others or toward beauty or ugliness or to human need. Sentiment always has a context and its truth or falseness can only be assessed by the context.
In a culture that is saturated with smut and excess, people can get too jaded (unresponsive) to have much sentiment (inner responsiveness) at all and that is sad. And too much gratuitous violence, sex and profanity can cause that jadedness.
Sentiment is a human quality that is essential for art to have an impact. It can serve EITHER truth OR falsehood, but so can any and all art itself. So can religion. So can politics.
Tony continued, “…in the same way that pornography is false, by showing only partial truth in order to elicit a targeted emotion.
The problem with pronography is not so much that it is “false” (it can be quite revealing and also quite accurate and still be pornographic), but that it profanes something that is sacred and it is exploitative of both the viewees and the viewers. It objectifies human beings in unhealthy and abusive ways. It cheapens life and sexuality.
The comparison of ’sentiment’ with ‘pornography’ is logically invalid. Pornography is simply a twisted abuse of sentiment that could be otherwise beautiful in a context of love & commitment rather than exploitation.
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Tony, I don’t read much of the “latest” stuff. I’m a big fan of the Russian novelists like Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy (and I would not call them secular either). I am also a huge fan of writers like Washington Irving and poets like Longfellow and Whittier, just to name a few. But most of all, I love to read the novels of Harold Bell Wright. You might be rolling your eyes but you would be the one losing out aesthetically for judging it as sentimental. And your loss would be profound.
So, YES, I can name three Christian novels that are NOT poorly written or stocked with caricatures rather than real characters, NOT with wooden dialogue or bereft of compelling imagery. But they DO have authentic and awesome sentiment and that is what makes them so great:
All are by Harold Bell Wright:
The Shepherd of the Hills (1907).
The Calling of Dan Matthews (1909),
The Winning of Barbara Worth (1911).
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Joel,
I recommend the wikipedia definition of “sentimentality,” which reveals the difference between the word I have been using, and the word you wrongly intend to make its equivalent: “sentiment.”
I asked you to name three popular Christian novels, as that’s the point of this thread, that modern Christian art is largely deplorable. You’re right about Dostoevsky and Tolstoy not being secular, which is precisely my point — Christian art can be, well, artistic.
And I would not laugh at you for enjoying Harold Bell Wright — those are all fine examples. Just not popular ones…
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Tony wrote; “Christians have come to accept bad art in the name of ‘wholesomeness,’ and thereby given sanction to falseness, to sentimentality, to ugliness, to anti-intellectualism, all of which are sins in the sight of the God of glorious creation.”
Well, many secularists have come to accept bad and rotten art in the name of gratuitous “unwholesomeness” (but they rename it “authenticity”) and have given sanction to falseness, to jadedness, to emptiness and ugliness.
But at least I don’t speak so sweepingly against “secular” writers as you do against “Christian” writers. At least I qualified my statement to say “many secularists…”
Tony, lots of people from all categories in today’s culture have accepted bad art but it is no more done in the name of “wholesomeness” as it is done in unwholesomeness.” But I think it’s even worse when it’s intentionally not wholesome because that is a double-whammy (ugly at both the aesthetic AND the moral levels).
Authentic “wholesomeness” is a boon to great art, not a hindrance. And it is anecdotal and illegitimate to argue against that by citing bad art that seeks to be wholesome because anyone who is awake can point to a lot of worse art that seeks to be unwholesome and unChristian.
You speak of holding artists to a higher standard of creative beauty. AMEN to that. And it can be done without lowering standards of ethical integrity, wholesomeness and authentic sentiment.
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Tony, I don’t care much about what is “popular,” nor does that often lead us to what is good art (which is the point of this thread, as I perceived it). So I named the novels I like and read and they make my point.
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I have nothing against Lucado. He has done a lot of good in our time and culture. He has a writing ministry and I have no problem with that. He’s quite good, for what he does. He fits in my range of good writing.
And that range includes much different styles from his too. I guess my point is that I think you could expand your taste to include some ‘Lucados’ without compromising your love of the more edgy writers. That’s what I meant by “narrow.”
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Art is like porn. I may not be able to describe it, but I know it when I see it.
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It’s a myth that porn cannot be described.
It is the gratuitous presentation of graphic erotic images (on film, in print, etc) to intentionally exploit and dehumanize one party (objectify women/children/me) to dehumanize another (seducing the viewer to selfishly participate in the objectification and exploitation). It profanes the sacredness of sex and separates it from any relational context and from any semblance of human dignity or love, thereby cheapening it.
And the facetious claim that some works of porn are exempt because they are alleged works of art, does not always wash. Porn is still porn even if art elitists and academics try to tell you it isn’t. Porn can be described, but too many elitists and academics refuse to do it in order to obscure the issue and parade some porn in the name of art. This is not to classify all ‘nudity’ per se as porn but some of it is and the label “art” does not always cover it up.
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Joel,
While I understand what you’re saying, and agree with you completely, I think that there are a few things wrong with your definition of porn.
It doesn’t have to be erotic–it just has to be intended to be erotic.
It doesn’t have to dehumanize anyone, though it usually does. However, it could be argued that because both parties are engaging in sin, it does necessarily dehumanize.
It doesn’t have to profane human dignity and love, though it usually does.
Most of the exceptions to these statements I have made were not intended by their authors to be pornographic. On the other hand, most of the works that were intended to be pornographic are not exceptions to these statements.
What about Botticelli’s Venus and Michaelangelo’s David? Hardly anyone would classify them as pornographic. Personally, I think we should not call things pornography–when they were not intended by their authors to be such–just because we, for whatever reason, do not see artistic merit in them.
In the case of Venus and David, it is because they have stood the test of time and were produced by two of the greatest artists of all time. But, honestly, should that make a difference. My point is, we should not have a double standard, and should only call things pornography if they are clearly intended to showcase sexuality and little if anything else.
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Joel wrote (#35) of bad secular art:
I believe it is worse to claim Christ’s name, and then place it on something ugly (i.e., sentimental, poorly written, cliche’-ridden, unartistic, etc.). We expect the godless to revere what is ugly, after all.
Joel also said:
I don’t think I’m being anecdotal. My point is that it’s a rare thing to find fiction that passes even fundamental literary standards on Christian bookstore shelves. It would be anecdotal if I were bypassing dozens of current top-sellers to focus on a few bad ones, but recall that I asked you to name just three current popular Christian novels that are also good art. I think the fact that you yourself enjoy much older (and better fiction) is telling.
Joel next wrote:
I think we’re in agreement about authentic sentiment, but I don’t know what ethical integrity means to an artist, nor wholesomeness. If you mean by ethical integrity that the artist is crafting an aesthetically pleasing icon, i.e., something that directs attention to the Truth and image of God, then we are in agreement. I think we would disagree, however, about what work actually does that.
As for wholesomeness, if by using that word you mean: “conducive to moral or general well-being,” then I think we’ll disagree over what is conducive. I believe that reading formulaic, artless romance novels, or listening to cliche’-laden pop songs with half-witted theology, for example, is harmful to one’s moral and general well-being, because these are essentially idols (rather than icons), because they dull the tastes toward genuine art, and because they stultify the mind. What is worse, by labeling them “Christian,” we dishonor the maker of creation.
Reading O’Connor’s “Good Country People,” on the other hand, which features pharisaical Christians, a predatory traveling Bible salesman with a hollowed-out Bible containing condoms and liquor, and a one-legged atheist who tries to seduce the salesman, can be highly conducive to the thinking Christian’s moral well-being, by provoking reflection into the nature of salvation and God’s mysterious ways. It’s also conducive because it’s so much more artfully written, and reading good literature prepares the Christian reader to grapple with great thinkers, be they theologians or novelists.
Joel also notes (#37) that he has no problem with Lucado. I think I was too hard on Lucado before. There are many people whose ability to embrace literature is quite simply (and unfortunately) limited by the poor education that passes for modern public schooling. They have jobs and lives and little time to refine their tastes. Lucado, Peretti and others serve these people by giving them interesting stories at their reading level.
As a side note, I enjoyed Peretti’s This Present Darkness, because the tale was so original at the time. But I have refined my own reading tastes in the intervening years, such that his writing holds less appeal now. The same goes for Francine Rivers, whose Mark of the Lion series I really enjoyed as well (her writing, by the way, is several cuts above the other Christian romance novelists on the shelves).
The problem I have is that these are the pinnacles of modern Christian literature. It would be as if Stephen King and Tom Clancy were the best in American secular literature. I’ve enjoyed books by both of them, but they would be the first to tell you (King would, at least) that they are not great artists.
I think we lack that realism on the Christian side of things, and that further, our tastes are deteriorating at the same rate as secular culture. For every Danielle Steele in the secular world there is an equally dreadful Christian romance novelist. And my point is that as Christians we should not be content with that drivel, further, we should be repulsed by it. Bad art, in other words, is a sin.
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Tony,
Your phrase “thinking Christian” in the paragraph about O’Connor struck me and prompted this thought: The problem we have today is that most people (whether Christian or not) just don’t know how to read.
By that I mean, they don’t understand how to burrow past the surface. They need a story to explicitly tell them everything and they take stories at the surface level. If it doesn’t beat them over the head with an idea, the idea won’t occur to them.
(I don’t blame movies and TV for this by the way, because they have the same problem. A good visual story, just like a good novel, can make implicit points that require thoughtful contemplation to discover, but it takes an intellectually-engaged viewer to appreciate them.)
This is why superficial stories are popular, in both Christian and secular markets. The problem with Christians retailers, I think, is they don’t feel they can count on their customers to appreciate the more complex forms of storytelling.
I’m more familiar with Christian music than literature, so I’ll draw an example from that world. Take Steve Taylor … his songs were often critical of superficial Christianity (”This Disco Used to be a Cute Cathedral,” for example, mocked the trend in the ’80s to make church more about entertainment than edification, for the sake of drawing in more people. “Smug” criticized self-righteousness.) And while he had some very dedicated fans, he never gained a wide audience. DCTalk, on the other hand, stuck to simple and clear evangelical themes and became superstars, within the Christian pop-culture at least.
Taylor’s problem was that his songs required a listener willing to be introspective and honest. He didn’t tell people what they wanted to hear, and predictably, people didn’t want to hear it.
Good art, in any medium, has the ability to unsettle people and provoke them to think in sometimes uncomfortable directions. It’s no surprise that many people would rather be told a simple story that accords with what they already believe and that reinforces their ideas of the rightness of their side. Something that challenges those assumptions will meet a few hearers willing to engage it and a great many more who don’t want it around.
Hmm… I may have gotten off on a tangent here so I’ll wind this up.
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Steveg,
I don’t think you went off on a tangent at all. On the other hand, the purpose of entertainment is to entertain, so if art does not do that, people do not want to hear it, and it is much less likely to succeed. As you said when talking about Steve Taylor, that’s what happened with churches in the ’80s. And I think it’s very telling when churches behave as if they represent art rather than the truth.
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Tony wrote (#41) of bad Christian art: “I believe it is worse to claim Christ’s name, and then place it on something ugly (i.e., sentimental, poorly written, cliche’-ridden, unartistic, etc.).”
To intentionally do that would be wrong. However, God can use even our feeble efforts to do our best (even if its not so great) for His good. He can use very modest artists (in skill or talent) to glorify Himself, sometimes in spite of our weaknesses.
I still do not equate “sentimental” with “ugly.” It can be but not necessarily.
I am all for inspiring Christians to do their best and then do better–to be ever learning, but I am not all into casting such huge blankets of criticism over such wide swaths of Christian art & literature.
I have learned in my life that it is sometimes just too easy to always be a critic. Better to do good work yourself. But there is a place for doing both, within reason.
Tony, for Hollywood movies and a lot of modern novels, the clidhe’ ridden “formula” for success and for rave reviews from secularists is to feature “pharisaical Christians,” and portray predatory Bible salesmen, and spice it up with seduction issues. Not all such themes have to be stale or forulaic, but the same is true of the noble, heroic, deeply sentimental, inspirational and up-lifting in the arts.
For most works, time will tell.
The formula for countless films has been to portray the prostitute as the only woman with a heart while the town ‘church ladies’ or moral matriarchs indignantly rant over perceived sin. It’s all so boring and predictable after a while, although there is always a market for that!
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Joel, could you name a few of those, because, though I know of many films that portray Christians possibly in a negative light, I don’t know of any specifically like you say.
On the other hand, it’s important to realize that Jesus often went out of his way to do just that. He picked his followers from out of the mainstream, and next to none of them were from the religious establishment. He also said that prostitutes and tax-collectors would inherit the kingdom of Heaven before those in the current religious establishment.
It’s also important to notice whether or not the prostitute a) is a reprehensible person, or b) is the center of a redemption story. Also, whether or not the “moral matriarchs” are actually behaving as Christians truly should. If they are, then it is much less of a slight against Christians than otherwise.
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JOEL MARK: I still do not equate “sentimental” with “ugly.” It can be but not necessarily.
Yes, isn’t it pretty to think so?
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TONY WOODLIEF; . . . recall that I asked you to name just three current popular Christian novels that are also good art.
Joel doesn’t do reply. That might make someone else’s point.
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Coicidentally, I had been thinking about an O’Connor story today. I like her stories because she really seems to put into place that sinners have access to grace while hypocrites are wolves in sheeps’ clothing.
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SteveG and Cicero,
I think you’ve highlighted an important distinction I neglected, between art and entertainment. I guess part of what I’m saying is that Christians should consume less entertainment and more art.
Joel,
I completely agree with your statement:
That’s why I concluded I was too hard, in an earlier comment, on Lucado, et al. I certainly depend on that grace in my own writing, which doesn’t approach Dostoevsky either.
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Concerning the reference to “sterile entertainment,” I think this results in many cases due to there being not many quality entertainment options to choose from. Much of modern secular entertainment glorifies violence for violence’s sake, or, generally speaking, depravity for depravity’s sake. This forces the Christian to turn to “sterile” entertainment from the secular media. If entertainment had depravity in it, but at the same time had an over-arching redeeming value, then that would be much better, and probably many Christians would choose not to diet solely on sterile entertainment.
Concerning Christian entertainment, last year I read “Three” by Ted Dekker. While the book was exciting and dramatic, other than a few places that might have referenced Christianity, or the fact that the main character was a seminarian, there didn’t seem to be much that was overtly Christian about it. I suppose one could connect the dots and find some redeeming value or over-arching theme about it, but I could also easily see a non-Christian reading that book and not even realizing that it was supposedly a work of “Christian Fiction.” Wait a minute, wasn’t that made into a movie? I wonder how many people saw the movie without even realizing that the story came from a work of “Christian Fiction.”
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Tony – As always, thanks for the edification (I posted this to the other article thread by mistake, too). Do you think there is any link between affiliation and greatness in fiction writing? Great Christian fiction writers from the recent past would include O’Connor, T.S. Eliot, C.S. Lewis, Evelyn Waugh, Graham Greene, Tolkien, Chesterton, and others. The common thread – Catholicism or traditional Anglicanism. Even those without much of Christian theme (Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Wilde) or piety (James Joyce, Santayana) were Catholic in upbringing or by conversion. I wonder (developing on the fly), do denominations with a more sacramental (or incarnational?) theology tend to produce writers with an eye for how internal grace works through flawed vehicles – other people, physical objects (bread, water), etc? Certainly there are exceptions – Willa Cather comes to mind – but the pattern seems striking to me. Correlation without causation, or something more?
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Although, Willa Cather converted to Episcopalianism (Anglicanism) in 1922.
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52-incarnational theology
That makes sense to me–that sacramental view–produces faith with an eye for how internal grace works through flawed vehicles. It is not unrelated to Ps. 103:17,18 “but the lovingkindness of Jehovah is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and His righteousness unto children’s children; To such as keep His covenant, and to those who remember His precepts to do them.”
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It seems to me that the Bible itself sets the EXAMPLE for godly communication of evil. Is the Bible sanitized? We all understand there is plenty of depravity between its pages. There are certainly passages containing “mature themes” that are better omitted from the instruction of a child until he has the maturity of soul and spirit to safely handle realities of that nature. Nevertheless, the Bible does not communicate evil in such a way that titillates or incites one toward sin.
Furthermore, the literary quality of the Bible, the book that tells the greatest story ever told, is excellent.
I believe Christian writers who strive to honor and glorify God in all they say and do would do well to strive to emulate the Biblical writers.
If the Bible seems to fall short, perhaps Romans 12:2 has the answer: And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
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54.
I think a careful reading of the original language would reveal not a little coarse, or potentially vulgar, language.
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I have recently participated in discussions at our local Christian High School (non-denominational) about what is appropriate to portray in drama presentations, and what is it we are teaching our Christian students. The bottom line becomes for me “not causing one of these little ones to sin,” and “glorifying God” with our lives. Combining drama and music in a way that teaches a lesson about sin sometimes includes teaching young people how to sin, which I think must be avoided. I don’t want to be the sponsor of temptation. That said, high school students are not empty-headed automatons who simply soak up everything that comes down the pike and in contrast they mostly do make value judgments and use discernment of their own, but they also have a capacity for self-delusion in thinking most evil things won’t affect them. It is the same in the art world, whether in the library, the art museum or the studio. Why expose ourselves and our children to more evil in order to get them to think? Evil is eveywhere present, as well as shallow entertainment, and we as Christians can do better than settle for what is passed around as “good.” Let’s point to the most excellent and praiseworthy things in life and promote it! Let’s not wallow with the hogs in the mud.
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Twilson,
That’s an interesting observation. There is a sacramental earthiness to many of the authors you mention (though I’d add the Presbyterian-of-a-sort Buechner) that attests the significance of embodied/incarnational grace. The spiritual significance of the mundane and profane (not the same as what we popularly term profanity, btw) is probably lost on a Protestantism more in thrall to dualism and soft gnosticism than the monist Hebrew predecessors of our covenant.
Thatsa lotta big words meant to say that traditions that look on the “stuff” of our natural existence with suspicion will neglect the significance of concrete nouns, leaving them at a lack for words. Apparently God thought matter a good idea, and in some cases, very good {:~)
Regards,
SG
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