But this empty. there are no serious advocates of white supremacy because the system is in place and it institutionalized that supremacy by proxy. You may arguing that the plumbing has been redone by the supreme court and legislatures, but the foundation was laid by the fruits of labor derived from naked exploitation.

if you’re not ticked off about that then you probably haven’t been exploited. Or you don’t understand how you are exploited now.

Just because you have a bucket of manure doesn’t mean you have to make manure sandwiches.

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He’s dead wrong about some of the things I’ve heard. I don’t believe the government created HIV. I don’t believe the government is responsible for getting young black men hooked on drugs. But RDean makes a good point in that a black man of Rev. Wright’s age, who lived through the era of the Tuskegee Experiment and the Civil Rights battles of the ’50s and ’60s has earned the right to be distrustful.

But he’s right about some other things. The phrase that has Victoria’s knickers in a bunch, “God ____ America,” came as Rev. Wright was pointing out the absurdity of a country that kills innocent people (abortion, collateral damage in war, starting unnecessary wars) and treats its non-white citizens poorly (not so much now but recently enough that even those of us considerably younger than Rev. Wright can remember the last vestiges of it) invoking God’s blessing.

The Republican notion of patriotism, that you wave your flag and sing “God Bless America” and insist that anything America does in the world is good by definition, is foolish. It’s seeing America like a five-year-old child sees his mommy … incapable of doing anything wrong. Rev. Wright points that out, using extreme rhetoric because sometimes that’s what it takes to wake people up.

My fear now is that Obama’s opponents will be able to use it against him in the general election, but I am hopeful that the people who are likely to vote for Obama will be smart enough to see through it.

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Of course the West should “know better,” but that doesn’t excuse despotic regimes either. I never said “It’s OK because this country did that,” or anything of the sort. If you don’t think my answer is sufficient, then perhaps you should have been more specific when referring to a “black government.”

That said, while the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiments were awful and inexcusable, I don’t really see much use in using the word “we,” as I had nothing to do with it, and I’m sure you didn’t either. What happened was a generation ago, and isn’t likely to happen in this country ever again. They should have known better, yes.

And really, you can’t blame the TSE’s entirely on “those evil, blue-eyed devils” when there were black staff who were not only complicit, but active participants in the experiments as well. (See “Nurse Rivers.”)

Again, lest you go on another tirade and accuse me of trying to justify them, I’m doing no such thing. I refer to my original point: every government does or has done terrible things, and while there is no excuse for any of them, not everything’s as “cut and dry” or “black and white” as people like to make them.

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Yea, from some despotic country over in Africa. WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE BETTER THAN THAT!!!!

And you say I can’t have a civil discussion? When you go out in right field somewhere?

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Your answer is no surprise, but it is sad.

Sheesh, Victoria, I was quoting you from number 68. Better practice up on that memory.

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No, you missed the point entirely, though I guess I shouldn’t be all that surprised.

I was simply stating that atrocities are committed by governments of all color, and government sponsored murder based on race is awful no matter who is committing it. You asked if any of us could imagine an example of black government doing something along the lines of the Tuskagee Syphilis Experiments, and I provided an example.

I suppose that if the wanton rape and murder is being committed by a leftist despot, that makes it somehow less reprehensible than a Western government doing it?

I mentioned nothing about what “caused” either, and I’m honestly not sure where on earth you got the idea that I thought they were somehow one and the same.

Unfortunately, however, it would appear that any attempt at civil discussion is lost with you. It’s a shame, really.

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Your answer is no surprise, but it is sad.

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And yet, you believe you speak for God. Hmmm. Not too humble.

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I don’t agree with you on Wright’s Church.

YOU WRITE:…… “I would say if you really had an honest interest, you would check out the Church first hand. It is a Christian Church.”

Rdean, I don’t need to hear more than I heard and witnessed on that clip. I have never in my life heard a pastor from the pulpit use the LORD’S name in vain.

My interest isn’t in a man using the LORD’S name in vain over and over again.

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