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Case in point. I am not an artist, but I come from a family loaded with artists, including several who do or once did make a living by art (mostly painting). Three out of seven of us have published books, which is at least a related field. I draw for fun sometimes, and I own some books of art. But I’ve never taken a real art class, rarely go to an art museum, and the books I write wouldn’t even classify as “literature.” (Though I hope they’d still be counted as good writing.) But I’ve taken heat from one relative for my place in “the arts” (said in an imitation snide, uppity accent). I can’t get her even to explain what she means, because she tells me she doesn’t want to “debate” the issue. But I never speak of “the arts” and wouldn’t consider myself more than very peripherally connected to the art world. Nor do I think it would be wrong if I did have some sort of connection (publishing literature, selling my drawings, teaching art to children, etc.). I simply don’t even understand what the problem is, or what I’m part of it—I’m somehow tainted by sin without even knowing what I’ve done.

I don’t know how widespread that attitude is today, but it is still out there. It seems to me that God made a gorgeous world and gave humans the ability to work in it directly (gardening, for example) or to copy it in art, or even to re-invision it in art. Art is easily part of our stewardship mandate, it seems to me, and the beauty of the temple is a biblical evidence of that. We can participate in art for fun (e.g., me dabbling in drawing), more seriously (e.g., poets who publish their work, but work a full-time job in another field), or for a living (e.g., my relatives who make a living painting). We can twist art and use it inappropriately, but to be suspicious or art as art is to lean toward gnostic heresy (a false belief that the spiritual world is important but the material world is not—which leads those who follow this belief all the way to believe that Christ couldn’t have truly been human since the material world is corrupt by its very nature and the spiritual world is innately good).

It’s OK not to like art. I don’t think it’s OK to treat it as inherently sinful.

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RDean,
Yes, I am absolutely serious. You can choose to see the church as a collection of “mysticism, the occult, prejudices and primitivism,” and that is your prerogative. I, however, for my own reasons, do not. Let me say that if I were in your shoes, I undoubtedly would agree with you–the church has contributed to that perception of it. However, I am not, and it is my belief that a completely objective look at the church, which is impossible for any human being, will reveal that it truly has been “the salt and the light of the world.”

Cheryl D.–31
In your last paragraph, you made a point about things being unrealistically portrayed in Christian fiction, and it immediately made me think about the portrayal of love. I am a big fan of Ted Dekker. He’s written quite a lot in a short amount of time, and though half of his books can seem like essentially the same story, I think he’s written some very good ones. He’s very big on the portrayal of love, such as the love of God, especially as reflected in the love between a man and a woman. He does a very good job of it, and I am usually very touched, even though it is highly idealistic. Although I do not know how damaging this is, if at all, I sometimes have to remind myself that this also is not based on reality.

I think it would be safe to say that our complaint on this thread with unrealism in Christian literature is analogous to the secular complaint that unrealistic depictions of beauty in pop culture lead to problems like teen depression, bulimia, and anorexia.

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This topic is of importance to me on many levels. I studied it in college. I had a professor who loved Flannery O’Connor, re the earlier post, so I had a great introduction to her but never did learn to like her–I just don’t like writing that odd. I love G. K. Chesterton’s writing, nearly everything he has written, but cannot stand his novels.

I definitely believe Christian fiction is getting better–those of you who haven’t read anything in 15 or 20 years might want to try again. We still don’t have our Dostoevskys, but it’s still a new genre and it’s getting established. (Peretti is widely credited with “beginning” today’s Christian fiction. Fiction for adults was simply not being published at all before he hit the market.) Jan Karon is an example of a writer who isn’t a literary giant but writes good books from a Christian understanding. (I stayed away from her for years, assuming she must not be good since she was so popular, but I was pleasantly surprised. Not deep reading, but basically good books.) The genre is maturing, and I really think it’s worth a second look for those of you haven’t read anything since Peretti (or LaHaye/Jenkins–not an example of good writing OR good theology, but I’ve long since learned to avoid LaHaye’s nonfiction too).

I am an editor for Christian publishers, and thus I know a lot about the gatekeeping. Unfortunately a lot of the gates are in the wrong places. For instance, I’ve questioned appeals to salvation that never mentioned the cross and been told the passage was OK, but I’ve seen the word “jackass” removed (the phrase was “long-eared jackass”–clearly talking about an animal here, though it was indeed calling a person a jackass). I’ve seen a book about breast cancer that wasn’t allowed to include a drawing about self-examination. But I’ve had to flag in proofing (in other words, a book that had already been edited) a recommendation that it might be a good idea to enforce birthrates “by any means necessary.” Sex and language, even the gentlest uses, are completely disallowed (hints of sex between a married couple, for instance), but I think violence has a lot more leeway.

I too tend to stay out of Christian bookstores. What’s more, I was once at a Christian editors conference, let’s say 30-50 editors in the room, I don’t really remember, and the speaker asked how many of us shop in Christian bookstores. NONE of us raised our hands. (I expected at least a few hands.) It’s not that they don’t have anything good, but that they have little that’s good, and the good stuff I probably already own. I’m more likely to find something new, even in the explicitly Christian realm, in most secular bookstores.

For thought: One problem with Christian fiction is it inadvertently discourages evangelism. In books, every unbeliever gets saved rather quickly. In real life, RDean is still among us, and still RDean. I think through the years hundreds of honest Christians have probably concluded they’re doing something wrong, because people don’t bow the knee right and left. So they stop trying and leave it to the people who do it right, like in the books.

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If the carcass didn’t stink, you would not be able to view the beautiful whiteness of the teeth.

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The church has always stood against mysticism, the occult, prejudices and primitivism????
You can’t be serious. You take those away and you don’t have any church.

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Adios, I’m with you regarding the “Kincade factory” trend. Also, I’m not of a mind to carry water for Christian publishers or bookstores, though I see them as a mixed bag of good and bad, just like any other competing resource.

My point (which I make now not as a disagreement with anyone else but just as a statement to weigh on its own merit) is about not falling into the trap that something must necessarily be depraved, ranchy, seductive, edgy, shocking or angry in order to be “art.” All those themes may well be included in art (in a responsible context) as beauty does rise out of ashes. However, there is no reason to devalue or scorn sentiment, wholesomness, innocence, and people “being saved” if those themes are not cheapened or treated in a shallow context.

Is it because we don’t see enough depravity, sex, violence, etc that we need more of it on a gratuitous basis in the arts? (not that anyone is saying we do, I am just making my own point). I am NOT saying those themes are off limits. I am saying, don’t fall into the trap of necessarily equating those themes with “high art.”

Jesus said, because of the increase in wickedness, the love of many will grow cold.” Matthew 24:12.

If we put wickedness on parade in our arts and culture and often scorn the decent, eventually “the love of many will grow cold” and so will our art.

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You are mistaken, there are NO misspelled words in post #19. You might want to check out post #21, if this is so interesting to you.

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First, I agree with your marketplace stand. I think every artist has a right to create his art. He has a right to pay for his supplies and a right to sell it. But if no one buys it, oh well . . .

But the big Christian publishers are not just about making money, but big money. Do you have a big name? Can this be a series with marketable accessories (dolls, devotionals, journals, ties, etc.)? They have turned retail into McCristian bookstores. I haven’t walked into one in years that didn’t look like an explosion at a Kincade factory. For my money the buyer for B&N has way better “Christian” taste. You can find “Silence” by Shusaku Endo at B&N, but I’ve never seen it at Bereans or Celebration.

The McChristian movie and music industry has similar problems. They are so worried about “guilt free entertainment” that they forget beauty rises from ashes in our human condition.

A movie producer gave me this advice about selling a screenplay. “Pitch it to the studios first; it’s like winning the lottery, but if you win they will do the best. Or sell the story to people with money, sell yourself and make an indie film for the sake of the art. If you’re just interested in making money, tweak the story so the main character gets saved and sell it to a Christian house. They can make you money, but they are the worst people to deal with. Get more than one lawyer.”

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