Comments on: Fidelity and abstinence versus education and medicine (or all four) http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/ A forum for discussion of news that arises at the intersection of Christianity and culture. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:29:57 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Scroop Moth http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/comment-page-1/#comment-285719 Scroop Moth Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:42:04 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/#comment-285719 KRM Good, entertaining try at diminishing my point, KRM, but it don't work. Sexual behavior isn't analogous either to guns or acceleration. Bullets aren't opportunistic. Shooters load them. HIV on the other hand comes along for the ride (sorry). If a fall goes on long enough, it will inevitably result in a gravitational collision. No matter how long sex lasts, nor how much it accelerates, it can't transmit disease in the absence of the cause, a pathogen. The worst you've got is an erection lasting four hours or more, etc, etc. KRM

Good, entertaining try at diminishing my point, KRM, but it don’t work. Sexual behavior isn’t analogous either to guns or acceleration.

Bullets aren’t opportunistic. Shooters load them. HIV on the other hand comes along for the ride (sorry). If a fall goes on long enough, it will inevitably result in a gravitational collision. No matter how long sex lasts, nor how much it accelerates, it can’t transmit disease in the absence of the cause, a pathogen. The worst you’ve got is an erection lasting four hours or more, etc, etc.

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]]> By: krm http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/comment-page-1/#comment-285165 krm Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:33:39 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/#comment-285165 Scroop Mooth - "behavior doesn't cause aids" I suppose that is correct. Guns don't kill people (the bullets do). Long falls don't kill people (the sudden stop at the end does). Behavior doesn't cause it, but it often transmits it. Scroop Mooth – “behavior doesn’t cause aids”

I suppose that is correct. Guns don’t kill people (the bullets do). Long falls don’t kill people (the sudden stop at the end does).

Behavior doesn’t cause it, but it often transmits it.

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]]> By: rdean http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/comment-page-1/#comment-284631 rdean Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:42:19 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/#comment-284631 #6: According to Jeremiah Wright white people created AIDS to destroy black people;) Seriously, who can blame him? Anyone that wants to know why he would make such an outrageous statement should read the following story. http://www.emorylies.com/Olansky.htm Let me point out that 40 years covers generations. The original study started with men but soon included women and children as they became infected. What else would a governement do that would do this to it's own people? One other sad note: Many of these men were drafted to fight for a country that would do this to them. I wish someone could explain it to me why the Rev. Wright should just "forget" about it and why he is "over reacting". #6: According to Jeremiah Wright white people created AIDS to destroy black people;)

Seriously, who can blame him? Anyone that wants to know why he would make such an outrageous statement should read the following story.

http://www.emorylies.com/Olansky.htm

Let me point out that 40 years covers generations. The original study started with men but soon included women and children as they became infected. What else would a governement do that would do this to it’s own people?

One other sad note: Many of these men were drafted to fight for a country that would do this to them. I wish someone could explain it to me why the Rev. Wright should just “forget” about it and why he is “over reacting”.

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]]> By: Theo Godwyn http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/comment-page-1/#comment-284608 Theo Godwyn Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:13:17 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/#comment-284608 Faith is a very strong component of human behavior. We tend to dedicate ourselves to endeavors that have a heavy component of faith. While medicine and education are important, faith-based initiatives can achieve a great deal. As long as faith-based initiatives don't detract from scientific evidence, I strongly support such activities. I think it is possible to introduce comprehensive programs that increase abstinence as well as promote safe sex for those who choose not to abstain. Faith is a very strong component of human behavior. We tend to dedicate ourselves to endeavors that have a heavy component of faith.

While medicine and education are important, faith-based initiatives can achieve a great deal. As long as faith-based initiatives don’t detract from scientific evidence, I strongly support such activities.

I think it is possible to introduce comprehensive programs that increase abstinence as well as promote safe sex for those who choose not to abstain.

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]]> By: adios http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/comment-page-1/#comment-284585 adios Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:52:57 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/#comment-284585 According to Jeremiah Wright white people created AIDS to destroy black people;) Seriously, once the causes of AIDS became known homosexuals were able to modify their behavior and the rates dropped in this group. Not so the intervenous drug users. To not include behavioral changes in AIDS education is silly. And especially dangerous for women. According to Jeremiah Wright white people created AIDS to destroy black people;)

Seriously, once the causes of AIDS became known homosexuals were able to modify their behavior and the rates dropped in this group. Not so the intervenous drug users. To not include behavioral changes in AIDS education is silly. And especially dangerous for women.

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]]> By: Sawgunner http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/comment-page-1/#comment-284566 Sawgunner Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:09:42 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/#comment-284566 #3 Bravo Peter Leavitt! Odd how AIDS and STD is the only medical problem/epidemic where there isnt a huge call for preventive med. Most will tell you its in the long run far far more cheaper to build water treatmt facilities or even teach folks to boil unsanitary water THAN IT IS to distribute antibiotics to those suffering from cholera or dysentery. You could make the same argument for teaching kids not to smoke versus building an entire wing of a hospital for pulmonary diseases, lung cancer and respiratory therapists But Lord help us if we point out risky unsafe behavior of lifestyles associated with AIDS. I think in the case of black Africa the USA has many many folks who embrace what this President has termed the "soft bigotry of lowered expectations". If you set or teach low moral standards for young men and women, they seldom disappoint your expectations be it in an American barrio/ghetto or an African village/tribe. The concept of the "sexual revolution" arrived later in Africa than it did in the USA. Poor men in need of work to support their families migrated into South Africa. They went to brothels, got HIV and then went home to give it to their wives. Wives passed it on to kids. Western inaction/indifference has done far more harm to black Africa than Piet Botha could have done in his wildest dreams #3 Bravo Peter Leavitt!
Odd how AIDS and STD is the only medical problem/epidemic where there isnt a huge call for preventive med. Most will tell you its in the long run far far more cheaper to build water treatmt facilities or even teach folks to boil unsanitary water THAN IT IS to distribute antibiotics to those suffering from cholera or dysentery. You could make the same argument for teaching kids not to smoke versus building an entire wing of a hospital for pulmonary diseases, lung cancer and respiratory therapists
But Lord help us if we point out risky unsafe behavior of lifestyles associated with AIDS. I think in the case of black Africa the USA has many many folks who embrace what this President has termed the “soft bigotry of lowered expectations”. If you set or teach low moral standards for young men and women, they seldom disappoint your expectations be it in an American barrio/ghetto or an African village/tribe.
The concept of the “sexual revolution” arrived later in Africa than it did in the USA. Poor men in need of work to support their families migrated into South Africa. They went to brothels, got HIV and then went home to give it to their wives. Wives passed it on to kids.
Western inaction/indifference has done far more harm to black Africa than Piet Botha could have done in his wildest dreams

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]]> By: Make it Man http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/comment-page-1/#comment-284560 Make it Man Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:01:11 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/#comment-284560 <i>"Behavior doesn’t cause aids."</i> I won't quibble with this because it's technically true, but I will point out that I personally don't engage in behaviour which will put me at risk of contracting AIDS... And that's exactly what others should do if they don't want to contract AIDS. So yes, one should concentrate on modifying behaviour to prevent AIDS. It just seems to be common sense. That's what you do in many other cases to prevent outbreaks of communicable diseases. If you have cholera outbreaks, then you try to get people to modify their behaviour. You don't just let them continue to drink from polluted water to prevent offending them about their practice of burying their dead near the river.... While the religious may be at fault for creating an atmosphere of judgement and condescension, it's the person who is afraid of offending the sensibilities of other cultures who is responsible for not using a method that <i>works...</i> “Behavior doesn’t cause aids.”

I won’t quibble with this because it’s technically true, but I will point out that I personally don’t engage in behaviour which will put me at risk of contracting AIDS…

And that’s exactly what others should do if they don’t want to contract AIDS. So yes, one should concentrate on modifying behaviour to prevent AIDS. It just seems to be common sense. That’s what you do in many other cases to prevent outbreaks of communicable diseases. If you have cholera outbreaks, then you try to get people to modify their behaviour. You don’t just let them continue to drink from polluted water to prevent offending them about their practice of burying their dead near the river….

While the religious may be at fault for creating an atmosphere of judgement and condescension, it’s the person who is afraid of offending the sensibilities of other cultures who is responsible for not using a method that works…

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]]> By: Peter Leavitt http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/comment-page-1/#comment-284556 Peter Leavitt Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:39:11 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/#comment-284556 This Green -Ruark article is important in that you have the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies coming out squarely on the side of abstinence as opposed to the failed methods of condoms, counseling, and education. The key para. is <i>onsider this fact: In every African country in which HIV infections have declined, this decline has been associated with a decrease in the proportion of men and women reporting more than one sex partner over the course of a year—which is exactly what fidelity programs promote. The same association with HIV decline cannot be said for condom use, coverage of HIV testing, treatment for curable sexually transmitted infections, provision of antiretroviral drugs, or any other intervention or behavior. The other behavior that has often been associated with a decline in HIV prevalence is a decrease in premarital sex among young people.</i> This would be the same case in America as in Africa. Those couples who stay abstinent before marriage simply do not get sexually transmitted diseases. This Green -Ruark article is important in that you have the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies coming out squarely on the side of abstinence as opposed to the failed methods of condoms, counseling, and education.

The key para. is onsider this fact: In every African country in which HIV infections have declined, this decline has been associated with a decrease in the proportion of men and women reporting more than one sex partner over the course of a year—which is exactly what fidelity programs promote. The same association with HIV decline cannot be said for condom use, coverage of HIV testing, treatment for curable sexually transmitted infections, provision of antiretroviral drugs, or any other intervention or behavior. The other behavior that has often been associated with a decline in HIV prevalence is a decrease in premarital sex among young people.

This would be the same case in America as in Africa. Those couples who stay abstinent before marriage simply do not get sexually transmitted diseases.

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]]> By: Scroop Moth http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/comment-page-1/#comment-284551 Scroop Moth Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:34:15 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/#comment-284551 Behavior doesn't cause aids. Behavior doesn’t cause aids.

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]]> By: rdean http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/comment-page-1/#comment-284548 rdean Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:31:01 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/18/fidelity-and-abstinence-versus-education-and-medicine-or-all-four/#comment-284548 All four!! All four!!

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