The whole slavery argument back then was greased by many with the presumption that blacks were less than human. And that is how the Supreme Court decision was seen and how it was taken and used. And that is my point. Al Gore took it that way too. Social Darwinists claimed the prestige of science for the argument that blacks were less human than caucasians. All to justify racism and slavery.

And today, we question the humanity of human beings about to be born. Hardly a difference, though with slavery, at least the dehumanized human beings were allowed to live.

Report comment to moderator

Laughable! That they were counted as 3/5th a person? You beat everything, SteveG.

As I already explained, they were NOT counted as 3/5 of a person.

The total population of the state was officially calculated using three-fifths of the total number of slaves to apportion Congressional representation.

Don’t play dumb on this, JM. The purpose was to keep the slave states from being over-represented in Congress, not to diminish the humanity of the slave.

It’s not even a debate. History speaks for itself.

Report comment to moderator

That is, of course, totally false.

We wanted to put a stop to live-birth or partial-birth abortions, and Clinton vetoed that three times. Had he supported that measure, many abortions would have still been legal (sadly) in the USA. Obama will not relent even in the case of live-birth abortions. The intransigence is on the “pro-choice” left. They often refuse to brook even the most reasonable controls or compromises.

The pro-abortion left tries to stop even laws that call for a 24-hour waiting period for a minor to get an abortion.

The “pro-choice” left tries to stop even laws that call for counseling before young girls get an abortion.

The pro-abortion left resists laws that would at least call for parents of minors to be informed, let alone getting permission, before they can get an abortion. But girls do need parental permission to get an asprin from a school office.
___________

SteveG wrote; “It was not a slight to the personhood of the slave at all.”

Laughable! That they were counted as 3/5th a person? You beat everything, SteveG.

Report comment to moderator

That’s precisely the point, though.

I understand many people have a hard time embracing these measures; but I also understand that these things would improve the situation, but not provide a total end to abortion.

The logical conclusion of this is that those people who insist on nothing less than a total ban are actually the least “pro-life” side of the argument.

Some of us say: It’s better to have 75 percent as many abortions next year as we did this year.

The “pro-life” people say: If we can’t ban it altoegther, we’ll have the same number next year as this year and that’s fine with us.

Report comment to moderator

Sure. And my point about Roe v Wade also stands.

Report comment to moderator

Trouble is, Obama’s not running on those ideas. Hillary begins to address them, but stops short of anything she can be held to.

Some are reasonable proposals, and have a degree of evidence for effectiveness (I think the educational arm of it is pretty weak). But no doubt you see that they each represent a potential impasse for large segments of the population. The most likely effective way to reduce unwanted pregnancy short of abstinence is consistent use of contraception. Can you imagine even the relatively liberal brand of American Catholics rallying behind a pro-contraception platform? Even Obama won’t do this, and if he has to address the topic, uses vague terms like “expansion of access” with no particular plan in mind. In fact, abortion doesn’t even show up on his radar except when as an issue where he can confirm his bonafides with pro-choice activists (googling “abortion site:barackobama.com” is illuminating in this regard)

So we can talk ideals, or we can talk about the realities on the ground around us. Looking around I can still honestly ask: Where are the Democratic ideas? Who’s really taking a believable stand to reduce the number of abortions and running to the polls with it. I know there are prolife (d)emocrats, but the (D)emocratic party is simply not convincing.

Report comment to moderator

Obama, as you well know, supports the euphemistically labeled ‘procedure’ known as ‘partial birth abortion’, which in fact represents the most barbarous and completely indefensible of abortion ‘procedures’. He has received the coveted 100% rating from both main pro-death groups NARAL and PP and has been labeled as the most pro-abort major candidate for the Presidency of the US ever – this by both friends and foes. He was the single hold out on a bill designed to ensure help to LIVING ALREADY BORN AND VIABLE children from botched abortions – and has adroitly blocked similar legislation in the US Senate. His extreme pro-death positions on abortion make Hillary Clinton look almost wholesome, if that were possible.

You know all this and yet you pretend he is something other than he is – and unfortunately you with him.

Sorry. The problem is not what you pretend. The problem is people who would nuance murder. Period.

Report comment to moderator

Where are the Democratic ideas to reduce or discourage abortion that have been rejected out of hand by unreasonable conservatives? I’m looking for the really good ones, the ones proven to have an effect.

Comprehensive sex education.
Access to contraception, even for teenagers.
Public assistance for pre-natal care and adoption services.

Report comment to moderator

The stinking hypocrisy of these pro-death individuals is exposed in a number of ways, but most plainly here by their unwavering and nauesating support for Obama – who has and continues to support ALL abortions, up to and including the live birth and subsequent brain-impalement of healthy screaming children.

Uh huh. What is your source for this smear?

Have it your way, Drill. I’d say reducing the number of abortions by half would be a good thing.

Your all-or-nothing attitude ensures that nothing will change.

Congratulations on being part of the problem.

Report comment to moderator

What’s a shame is that the Democratic party should be known for such ideas, but lost its way decades ago.

Report comment to moderator