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Wine, and kids, at the table
I grew up in a dry home: Booze was something you didn’t drink, no matter how old you were. It was wrong. When we’d take communion, I asked why it was called wine in the Bible and Welch’s in my church. Mother tisked at me to stop reading so much. Now, though, I drink, as do many of you. And I wonder, how should I treat this issue with my children. What happens when we have a bottle of wine at dinner? Do I give them a taste and train them about responsibility, or do I explain that they’ll have to wait? Another writer had the same question. One doctor says:
“The theoretical position is: driving a car, shooting a rifle, using alcohol are all dangerous activities,” he told me, “and the way you teach responsibility is to let parents teach appropriate use.”
Of course, many physicians are starting to suggest 25 as the best time for introducing alcohol, when the brain is most likely to be ready to handle it. For those who grew up in homes with wine at the table, or for those parents who’ve experienced a similar challenge, what’s worked for you?
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I abstained until my children became adults then I talked with them as adults talk.
I encouraged them to do the same with their children. We’ll see how that turns out.
BTW, to call me a social drinker would be a stretch. I average a few glasses of wine per year at really nice dinners or celebrations and a couple dozen beers per year on really hot days when I’m tired of iced tea and want a change.
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I have no problem with letting the kids have a taste, but I would not let them have their own drink.
I still have several years to evaluate and tweak my thoughts on this, but for now I plan to introduce alcohol to my kids myself, rather than let their friends do it (and who knows at what age that will happen). I’m not sure what age I would let my kids actually have a drink (something beyond a taste), but I’d guess around 17 or 18.
If the Lord grants me a son, I’d love for his first beer to be with his dad. My dad doesn’t drink, so I missed out on that.
I think in the US and in mainstream Evangelicalism, we make WAAAAAY to big a deal out of alcohol. Just treat it like any other commodity that demands responsibility.
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Here’s a related question that popped into my mind the other day for no good reason. If marijuana were legal, would you smoke it?
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My father allowed us a very small glass (about communion cup size) of wine when he had a glass himself with dinner (which was not regularly, I don’t remember if it was special occasions or certain meals). My sister liked it. I hated it and chose to have a large glass of grape juice instead.
We both became Christians as teenagers and attended a church that considered all alcohol sinful (they taught that the word used for wine in the NT could be either wine or grape juice and that Jesus drank only grape juice – I don’t think they understood the impracticality of juice as a regular beverage prior to refrigeration). I never drank until I went to Spain and considered it impolite to refuse the wine that was served at dinner every night (with water to mix with it) and was the standard beverage of the family I lived with.
But I never liked it. I think beer smells and tastes horrible, I can stand a few sips of wine or champagne but that’s it. The only drink I ever liked is a White Russian. But after my second pregnancy my stomach decided it could no longer handle either alcohol or amusement park rides.
My husband had bariatric surgery a few years ago, so he can’t drink much anymore (he used to like beer with pizza or chile, and an occasional kamikaze when eating at a nice restaurant). So we can’t do much modeling responsible drinking for our kids. Our older son (turned 16 today) has always said he doesn’t plan to ever drink alcohol. The autistic younger one is a picky eater and limits his beverages strictly to lactose-free milk, water, lemonade, and an occasional Coke or Sprite at McDonalds. When he gets to teenage years we’ll have to talk about it.
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My children were raised for some of the time in Germany where atitudes concerning alcohol consumption are more lax than here in the US. Over there, it’s just no big hairy deal. Mind you, because of this we are beer snobs and we taste beer like most people taste wine.
When the children were younger, we only drank beer or wine with our meals and so they did not see us drinking for the sake of drinking. We had no problem giving them a taste.
When they turned 18, we allowed them to have a beer or glass of wine with a meal if it was an intimate family dinner and no one was going anywhere afterward. We felt that if they were old enough to vote and die for their country, they were old enough to drink alcohol.
When they went off to school, we didn’t have many of the problems that accompany a lack of parental control when they leave home. They were both in a sorority and fraternity resoectively. Often, it was my son who was the DD.
Now that they are adults, they drink responsibly.
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Mommy – nope. I smoked it when I was a teen, and had a very bad experience. Never again. Just don’t think it’s safe.
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I don’t drink, but my husband seems to be on the same page as my father. No alcohol in the house but a little drink on vacation or special occasions. And yes, we were all given a little taste when we were small. Daddy lucked out. None of us kids had a drinking problem, in spite of the it running in the family. Daddy’s brother was an alcoholic. My problem with drinking is how do you know you are an alcoholic until it is too late.
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“My problem with drinking is how do you know you are an alcoholic until it is too late.”
Kbells – I heard a man teach that long ago, before I was a Christian (& I don’t think he was, either), & it makes sense, especially in a country where so many families are plagued by alcoholism.
In my own family, we have urged our daughters to choose caution. Both sides of our family have alcoholics. My husband was one. (God delivered him after an evening of sincere & deep repentance.)
This sounds kinda weird, but…We read that a daughter of a male alcoholic, who also has a big sweet tooth (the daughter, that is) is 4 times as likely to become an alcoholic as the average person.
My elder daughter has an incredible sweet tooth. And, unfortunately, she drinks alcohol, & gets drunk. She knows better, but does what she wants to do. (This is the daughter I mentioned on a Whirled Views as being quite stubborn & strong-willed, & not wanting to have a kid like herself.)
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I grew up in a family in which drinking was a capital-letter SIN. Interestingly, though we all have the same parents, my baby-boomer siblings all still believe that, and my younger brother and sister and I (40 and under) do not. My sister thinks it isn’t a sin, but the smell makes her ill.
To show how seriously this is taken, one of my brothers speaks to large groups of children at schools, camps, and churches, and he has children sign “pledges” that they will never, ever use illegal drugs or alcohol. I’ve told him that no one has a right to ask such a commitment from a child, certainly without knowing the parents’ standards on the issue, but he sees it as an absolute, like sexual purity. He has compared them. (To which my sister replied, “Did you ask him if he’d rather see his daughter lose her virginity or her teetotalling?”)
I myself grew up believing it to be a sin, then attended Bible college and worked at a Christian company with requirements of such a pledge. By the time I quit working there, I no longer had a problem with drinking, but I was under a signed commitment, which I kept. In the years since then, twice I’ve had wine with a meal–I far prefer grape juice. I’ve never tried beer. My closest friend here will have a couple beers with a meal if we go to a restaurant, and that doesn’t bother me.
My inclination, if I were in a drinking family, would be to let children have sips–much like my mom let us have sips of coffee. (She expressed amazement once that she raised all non-coffee drinkers! I don’t know if any of my siblings drinks coffee today; I imagine some do. But most of us, possibly all of us, don’t. I have, at most, two cups a year–it has to be really cold outside with no hot chocolate available, or hazelnut flavored coffee, for me to drink coffee.)
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My family didn’t drink too much, but when they did, they let us kids try some. None of us liked the wine. If I helped my dad out in the yard, he’d let me have a sip or two of his budweiser when we were done.
They didn’t make a big deal out of alcohol, so we didn’t either. They apprised us of the law and ensured that we would be punished twice – once by the authorities and once by them – if we went out drinking. More importantly, they taught us that alcohol in of itself isn’t bad, it’s the unintended consequences that were the problem.
My children are still quite young, but they do ask about beer and wine when we drink it. We’ve given them a taste and they really don’t like it. We’ll tackle it again when they were older.
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I should add that we’ve taught our daughters that drinking alcohol is not a sin, but drunkenness is.
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Pauline – they taught that the word used for wine in the NT could be either wine or grape juice and that Jesus drank only grape juice – I don’t think they understood the impracticality of juice as a regular beverage prior to refrigeration
Yes I think I was raised in that church, too. LOL!
The other big lesson was – don’t ever drink a single drop, because you’ll want another, and then another, and in short order, you will be an alcoholic lying unconscious in the gutter.
This tactic has uneven results with kids I think – it worked with me – I didn’t drink anything alcoholic until very late in life and, by then, it just never had a very enjoyable effect (I must not have the “gene”). Usually, alcohol just makes me feel lousy.
My brother, on the other hand … well, let’s just say that story is different.
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We drink alcohol in front of our children – responsible drinking is nothing to be ashamed of, and I want them to see my example of drinking a little and that’s it. They can drink when they are 21 if they want to, because that’s the law.
I think that grape juice communion violates the regulative principle. America over the past century is the only place and time that has ever substituted grape juice, which I would only support for alcoholics. There was no refrigeration in the ancient world, so there was no grape juice – there was only good wine, and not so good wine.
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At a certain age drinking is inter related with other things. Since my daughter is now Junior in HS, she used to have many more friends but some started drinking. In order not to face the peer pressure she just dropped them as friends. It also seems many of her friends that started drinking also started doing drugs and having sex too. So she had 3 reasons to drop friends.
All her old friends, we never see anymore, have also seen their GPA’s drop.
My daughter would always ask either mom or dad about what to do since she was taught that only we love her and will always give her sound advice.
When ever she has asked for a taste of bear or wine we let her have it. Most kids don’t like the taste of alcohol. She knows that if we ever caught her drinking under age without our permission, she would also instantly be responsible for the rest of her life too and she could take over paying for the rest of it. She knows we mean business.
Once kids know what the rules are and what the consequences are for not following them (and they realize that you will never compromise on any of it) then you will usually have no problems – if your kids are normal.
We instantly know what is going on her life by the company she keeps and what she tells us about her friends. The hardest thing for her was giving up a few boyfriends she would have liked to keep around otherwise.
She understood that boyfriends now don’t mean much in the scheme of things since she wouldn’t be able to choose a decent one for about another 5 years or so anyway. Luckily, she knows what she wants and already knows how to get it.
What she does not yet understand well is that to get what you want, it is best to give up wanting it so so much and do the things it takes to get it instead
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I have young children who are allowed a Communion cup-sized serving of wine occasionally at dinner. They also observe my wife and I sharing a 12-oz beer several times a week, but have no interest in it!
We try to model for them that alcohol is a good gift from God, if used responsibly. Always in community (they never see Dad or Mom sneaking nips during the day) and (Chesterton, I think) when we’re happy, not when we’re sad.
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I grew up with alcohol after supper being the normal company drink. My dad also drank a beer with popcorn once a week or so and would give us all sips. My mother is probably an alcoholic, but so in control that most people would not know it. Two brothers also drink too much and two siblings drink socially. I drink maybe a few glasses of wine a year and maybe a beer or cocktail a couple of times a year.
My husband grew up with a step-dad who was an alcoholic and who got mean when he drank. I couldn’t understand my husband not caring for alcohol in the house when we first married, since at that time, there wasn’t a problem in my own family. I have seen the destruction since then. He has mellowed out more and will also drink once in awhile.
I told all my daughters that not to drink is probably best, but that the bible does not demand that. I also gave them statistics on their likely chance of becoming alcoholics. They all will have a drink once in awhile, but none drink much.
The bible warns in several passages not to add to what God says and I think too many churches do that by making some things prohibited that are not. I also think asking children or teens to make vows, contradicts the bible that says not to make such vows. There were some disasters in the bible to people who did make vows and we are warned about it.
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There is not single “right” way to introduce it and there are probably many wrong ways. Parents will do what they think best (and often gloat about the results and criticize anybody who disagrees) and the results will happen.
We often heard that Europeans did it right by having wine at the table from a young age. An elderly Italian woman assured me that no Italians have an alcohol problem as they introduce it early. She is wrong.
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We used to go to a very legalistic church and though we didn’t always agree with the legalisms we enforced them. Big, stupid mistake. Our kids could read us better than we thought. When the older kids became teenagers they tested everything, especially what they knew we were enforcing just for the group’s sake. They struggled with drinking, movies, modest dress, etc. Fortunately these were only for short periods. They have all returned to the common sense we should have initially raised them in. Our younger ones who did not have to suffer those legalisms are walking through adolescents much easier.
The pallete develops as you grow. That’s why most kids don’t like black coffee, beer or wine when they are young. They grow into more bitter tastes. We let them taste if they ask when younger and have a glass on special occasions when older. That method is working well.
Moderation in all things, eh?
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Is alcohol a drug or isn’t it? Would you give your children tiny samples of other drugs?
I’m not completely against an adult having an occasional drink – although there is alcoholism on both sides of our families.
Graceland writes: ” think in the US and in mainstream Evangelicalism, we make WAAAAAY to big a deal out of alcohol.”
Well Graceland maybe you haven’t witnessed the devastation alcohol can cause in people close to you.
My husband’s dad and all 4 of his brothers are alcoholics. (Horribly dysfunctional family life for all of them.) My husband doesn’t drink at all – he never developed a taste for it. When we were dating and newly married, he would get sick every time he had a beer or mixed drink. I gave up drinking completely for years after I became a believer but over the past few years I’ve enjoyed an occasional drink without feeling guilty. It’s not something that appeals to me. I have two sisters whose lives have been totally messed up due to alcohol.
I’ve witnessed too much heartbreak and damage to be too indifferent to it.
RR – I think you exaggerate by claiming alchohol is a “good gift from God.” Please.
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Thomas Bramwell Welch developed non-alcoholic grape juice in 1869 as a substitute for wine in communion for alcoholics.
During Biblical times in the Middle East wine was the most common drink because the alcohol actually made it safer than water in an era before water purification plants. The wine was watered down and drunkenness was disdained.
Cultures with similar attitudes and practices toward alcoholic beverages have low incidences of alcoholism. In keeping with the truth behind the apocryphal claim that there are 27 words for snow in Eskimo, that we have more words for that which is important to us, it should give us Americans pause that reportedly the two words with the most synonyms in English are “crazy” and “drunk”.
Although the mere drinking of alcoholic beverages is not a sin, (and asserting an absolute Biblical proscription against it would be adding or subtracting from the Word of God and therefore itself sinful) we need to be careful about our attitudes toward overindulgence and model moderation and sobriety before our children.
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I would agree with Graceland, though. I think we do make way to big a deal out of alcohol. All things in moderation. No other country in the world has the problems with binge drinking that we have in the US. Why? I have no idea – it could be just the method of choice that kids use to fit in or to forget things. I don’t know. But making it some forbidden fruit never to be sampled seems the wrong way to go.
Alcohol has never been a big deal in our family – I like a glass of wine occassionally, but it isn’t a need in my life. My kids see us drink once in awhile. They will be guided in alcohol just as they are guided in other things in our household – there is a good way to do things, and a not-so-good way, and here are the consequences.
VS- alcohol is not illegal, so comparing it to a drug seems a little extreme. I personally don’t want my young children sampling it, but if some parents allow it, there probably isn’t much harm.
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Where do we get the notion that no other country in the world has the problem with binge drinking like us?
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I think its important to remember the whole “stumbling block” principle. Growing up, my grandparents were both alcoholics. In college, I experienced some scary situations being around alcohol (I didn’t drink, but you could NOT escape it, even in the dorms.) I did not socialize at all in college because EVERYTHING revolved around getting rip-roaring drunk. Because of these instances, I developed an extreme hatred for all alcohol. And (unfortunately) I did not understand the concept of drinking responsibly. Is that because no one ever drank responsibly in front of me? I don’t know. But for now, my husband and I have a no alcohol in the house policy (I wouldn’t drink anyway, my husband maybe once in a blue moon). And I certainly wouldn’t give my children sips.
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Alcohol is controlling and killing the people that God has called me to serve. It is a plague on the nation where I serve. I would advise everyone to run the opposite direction from the offer of that first social drink. Spend a few months working with the homeless, and then decide. You will never touch a drop.
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Caffeine is a drug.
May the wine go straight to my lover
Songs 7:9
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Interesting topic.
My parents let me taste what ever they were drinking when I was little. Actually when we were small my father would wow us by lighting a shot glass of rum on fire and dipping his finger into it. My sisters would also, but that trick stopped in our house before I was old enough to be brave enough to stick my hand in “fire.”
They started serving me wine with nice dinners when I started high school. They knew that I drank in high school by my senior year (which is really when I started drinking) and we had unspoken rules. They didn’t have a problem with me sleeping over at girls houses (fore sight I guess), so I usually just slept over rather than drive if I was going to be anywhere where there was alcohol.
By college I was drinking with my parents socially, and comparing tastes in liquors.
We have cosmos or other sweet cocktails at Christmas, mimosas are a family favorite for fancy brunches (though we all prefer belinis), and all 5 of us generally enjoy hunting down specialty liquors and finding new things to drink.
Drinking as a family just works for us.
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Mumsee – I guess I haven’t researched the topic, but have heard on numerous news reports that other countries don’t have the binge drinking issues the US has.
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In my parents home no alcohol was ever served.
My husband and I have wine in our home. I see nothing wrong with drinking a glass of wine with dinner. As far as allowing children to taste wine, …. I wouldn’t allow that until they were at least 10 years old, and only a tiny sip, for a special occasion. In Europe many families allow their children to have a small amount of wine with more water added. This wouldn’t be a regular occurrence, just special occasions.
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TL
Excess drinking is a terrible problem in England.
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#24 – a vast majority of the people in our country don’t become alcoholics. It seems a bit extreme for no one to ever have a drop of alcohol just in case they become an alcoholic. You may die in a car crash, too, but does that mean you never get into a car? People need to know their own personalities and predispositions and act accordingly. If you have alcoholism in your family, it’s probably not wise to drink on a daily basis. If you have an addictive personality, likewise. But there are many of us who don’t overindulge and don’t become alcoholics because we enjoy a glass of wine now and again. I don’t think we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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Maj. Vic,
My pastor frequently repeats this saying: “Abuse does not negate proper use.” I know people who misuse food (many different extremes). I know people who can’t wake up without several cups of coffee. The simple issue is, Has God forbidden alcohol consumption? No, He hasn’t. He has forbidden drunkenness or being under the control of anything other than Himself. Thus, forbidding others an occasional beer or wine is going beyond Scripture.
You may choose to abstain, and I honor that choice. I would never try to convince my brothers who have vowed never to drink that they should drink–they shouldn’t, because they have vowed not to, whether wisely or unwisely. (I myself think it’s an unnecessary vow, but the Bible binds us to keeping vows we have made. I do not think that childhood vows, or a vow made by a wife without her husband’s consent, are binding.) I’m very nearly a teetotaller myself–the stuff doesn’t interest me. But it isn’t a sin to drink.
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TL,
In our experience, the biggest bingers were the Brits and the Aussies but, as Maj Vic reports, Russia also has significant problems. We tend to bad mouth America for everything (or heard it badmouthed on the news) but it is not necessarily accurate. I am certain others have had other experiences in other countries that would indicate it is not just America with the problem.
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Quoted in the OP: “and the way you teach responsibility is to let parents teach appropriate use.”
Is this a tautology? It doesn’t seem to have the customary punch (NPI) of the typical blockquote. How is that sentence meant to be read? Emphasis on “parents”? On “appropriate”? Maybe on “let”? And what is its contribution to the whole? Anyway, interesting post and discussion.
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My family of blue collar German & Irish Catholics drank a fair amount (perhaps even a lot), but there weren’t many alcohol problems. We had occasional sips as kids, but weren’t really given much.
I drank way too much for the roughly 4 years before I turned 21 and then cut way back. I’m now just a beer snob (I don’t drink distilled liquor at all and only rarely have wine).
If Jesus made wine for the Cana wedding guests, it can’t be inherently sinful to drink, can it? On the other hand, the prohibitions on drunkeness must also be heeded.
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I suspect Maj Vic is trying to give us a glimpse of what happens when people are taken captive by alcohol and warning that it is not pretty. That is an important warning as those of us with alcoholic family or pasts can attest to.
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I grew up in a home where social drinking took place, but my husband was taught that all alcohol was a sin. Now that we’re both on the same page (social drinkers) we’ve also thought about what to teach our kids. Here’s our hang up, so if someone can answer this for me I’d appreciate it: I thought that drinking in the US was illegal until 21 both in and out of the home. We want our kids to see us have alcohol responsibly and we want them to taste it when they want, but I’m also not going to do anything illegal – even if it’s only a sip. I’m second guessing myself though b/c so many here have said they let their young children try it. Is it legal to drink in your own home no matter what the age? Is this a matter of “rendering unto Caesar” or should I take this to a Higher Authority and circumvent the law? I’m confused!
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“alcohol is not illegal, so comparing it to a drug seems a little extreme.”
During drug awareness programs in the schools, alcohol is included as a drug.
Because it’s “legal” doesn’t make it ok. Abortion is legal. Etc.
And Amp, you’re right – caffeine is a drug, but it doesn’t impair your driving abilities or the way you respond to other people.
And to respond to: “They will be guided in alcohol just as they are guided in other things in our household – there is a good way to do things, and a not-so-good way, and here are the consequences.”
My husband was raised around people who drank all the time – various members of his family owned bars/taverns etc. As I said his dad and all 4 brothers are alcoholics. I was raised in a home that taught it as a sin and still have two sisters who are addicted and a brother who has made himself abstain because he realized he also had a weakness for it.
So, no I don’t think I’m being a little “extreme” with my views. And as I already said, I really don’t have a problem with an adult enjoying an occasional glass of wine, a beer or whatever. I’ve just seen too many people who don’t know when to say “enough.”
Just relating my experience.
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I believe, at least in the state of WI, you can allow your underage children to drink if they are in your presence. I could be wrong, and I don’t know what ages that applies to. However, many states or cities also have “social host” laws that allow you to be prosecuted if someone drinks at your home and gets into a car and crashes. That generally applies to underage kids partying with mom and dad’s consent, so I don’t know that it would apply here.
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By the way, my family of enthusiastic drinkers had to find a way to get along with the virulently teetotaling wing of my wife’s family – she is a descendant of Senator Volstead, whose line has not softened on the issue since the Volstead Act (enacting “Prohibition”).
We had to have a two stage wedding reception: the cake and punch one right after the ceremony, followed by the sloshathon (which, lo and behold, we apparently ‘inadvertently’ neglected to inform the Volsteads about).
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Ok – but caffeine can be addictive and can affect a person’s behavior and body. Does that mean kids cannot have any caffeine? The problem with alcohol is the abuse of it, not the alcohol itself. As I said, I don’t think any of us should decide for another what is right for them. We all have different backgrounds and tolerance thresholds, and I would never encourage someone to drink if they aren’t comfortable with it. But I do think kids need to see it used in a responsible manner at some point, either in or out of their home, so they realize that drinking alcohol for the sole reason of becoming drunk isn’t a good idea.
This topic is similar to children and guns. Many people don’t want their children to ever touch or look at a gun. I prefer to teach my children to use and respect one so they don’t get curious on their own.
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Kara – 36
You make a good point. Drinking isn’t legal for kids. I don’t know what the rules are, when one might allow a child to have a sip in their own home. Something we should check out.
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Kara – what about children drinking communion wine? I don’t think the ATF is going to come down on that.
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VS,
Drugs come in all flavors depending on the person.
Food is a drug for the fat.
Sugar for the hyper.
Sex for the predator.
Cheetos for llamas
Just because some are drugs for some people doesn’t mean they are bad or should be banned.
It’s all in the old saying – moderation, moderation, moderation.
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Less filling or tastes great?
Oops, sorry. Wrong thread.
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Kara 36:
The laws vary by state. In some it is illegal for you to give children under 21 a sip of alcohol in your home. I hope this site is accurate, it looks good:
http://www.fightunderagedrinking.org/downloads/UDB_State_Profiles.pdf
I hold to the law in my state even though I think it is a bit unreasonable.
VS 37:
Point taken. My experience is different, but I know that alcohol must be handled with extreme care, which is what I endeavor to teach my children. It is something meant to be enjoyed within a specific context – in moderation with others.
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Here is another link showing the variations in laws by state, in map form so you can see at a glance which approach your state takes (the link in Amphipolis’s post is a long document giving details for every state)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Underage_consumption_map_2006.GIF
Like Amphipolis, I don’t know how accurate the info is. His link says Iowa makes exceptions for parents to allow minors to have alcohol in their own homes, but this map says Iowa has no restrictions on consumption of alcohol by minors to begin with.
Our pastor is of the opinion that because of the high alcohol content in drinks today (compared to in Bible times), and the wide availability of other beverages (which they did not have in Bible times), it is best to abstain altogether and teach your children to do likewise. But he also recognizes that many good Christians, including in our church, disagree, and in three years the only time I ever heard him mention it was as an example of issues on which Christians disagree.
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As far as allowing minors to drink, I would think that’s a conscience issue–if the children are under your authority and in your home, that’s your decision and not the government’s. I think one of the problems with 21 as legal drinking age is that nearly all young people are out of the house by then–so basically government is mandating that parents may not drink their children to drink responsibly. They simply don’t have that right. I’d think it’s a lot like the issue of whether you can allow your son who doesn’t have a learner’s permit to drive the tractor on your own land, or whether you can shoot the deer on your own land. The commonsense (and legal) answer to both of those is yes, I think. So too, if you believe the best thing for your children is to have a sip or two under your authority in your home, that is your parental right. And notice that I don’t have children, so I’m not claiming rights for myself.
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I can come at this issue from several different directions. My mother was a severe, non functioning alcoholic. My dad was more of a social drinker, although he had a very high stress job and I personally think he used Canadian Mist to self medicate and calm down. When he retired in 1994 I told him I had been through one alcoholic and if he intended to drink himself into an early grave I was walking off his deck and would never see him again. He quit cold turkey. From that he started keeping those nasty chocolate covered cherries in the freezer and went through a box every couple days or so. Now he is diabetic and cann’t have either one.
I personally am a wino. I enjoy a glass of red wine a couple of nights a week with dinner. I in no way feel that I am in danger of becoming an alcoholic. I am aware of my family history and am careful never to go over the edge. I have offered my daughter a sip of my wine when she has asked what I was drinking. She did not care for it. She asked me once where my mother was and I explained that I lost her at an early age to alcohol. I have explained that there are people who can and do drink a glass or two of wine, or A mixed drink or a beer and are fine. There are those who cannot. I do firmly believe that trying to shield them or forbid them from drinking is a mistake. Most alholics I have encountered came from teetotalling backgrounds.
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Amphipolis and Pauline:
Thanks for the links! According to both sites in KY it is not only OK for me to give my child alcohol in my home – there’s actually an exception to the “under 21″ law to permit it. Now, my oldest daughter is only two so anything may happen between now and this being an issue!
Cheryl D.:
) The law is rediculous in this area, but I’m going to obey it just because it is the law. (This, obviously, would not apply in every area, lest you worry that I think in black and white. If we came up with a China-like one child policy, obviously I would not obey the law to abort my child, etc.)
I completely agree that the commonsense answer is to teach my children proper alcohol consumption by letting them consume it with me. However, I am just not willing to break the law (same as I’m not going to break the hunting or learner’s permit laws) in order to teach that lesson. I would just worry that something would happen (i.e.: he’s hunting on my property without a proper license and shoots himself in the foot) and things would not go well when I try to explain that to social services.
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Kim
I agree with you. I would add that people can become addicted to alcohol whether they come from a family of drinkers, or not. I’ve observed it both ways.
People abuse food, as you say in your post regarding heavy sugar intake. Some people can’t eat sugar, others can’t drink, people can be allergic to all sorts of food, excess food intake and obesity, can result in many diseases. Ever person has certain things they can and cannot eat or drink.
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I have to be careful with alcohol. My husband and I sometimes have a glass of wine or beer (as in two to three times *maybe* a month) and we tell our three year old it is grown up juice and he can taste it perhaps when he is older.
However, while I agree that caffeine is a drug, not all drugs are equal, folks. Alcohol has a PLEASING effect on the senses. It is quite easy to over indulge more so than with other “drugs” and with much more severe consequences. I do not think it is prohibited in scripture. But, I also do not believe that we must hold so tenaciously to our christian liberty in this area if it causes our brothers and sisters to stumble (another thing to consider while comparing food and even coffee to alcohol…are they that great of a stumbling block?) One might think there was a bit more of an attachment to the substance than there should be!
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I come from two functioning alchoholic parents, and I am a light social drinker–only in certain company and a few times a year. I never wanted to become my parents, so I never even tried alcohol until college, and I’ve never had more than two drinks in a row. It was never discussed in my church.
I believe the Bible allows for moderate consumption–the Psalms talk about wine making the heart glad, for example. I believe we should serve wine for the Lord’s Supper, although our current congregation does not practice it. When we visit churches that do, or offer both, I partake because I believe it to be biblical.
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Cameron – 52
You write:…. “I believe we should serve wine for the Lord’s Supper, although our current congregation does not practice it.”
I believe that wine should be used for the Lord’s Supper too.
I asked my father a pastor, one day about using wine or grape juice for Communion, here is the answer he gave me; “real wine should be used because there’s ‘life’ in wine, there is no life in grape juice” my father was right, there is no life in grape juice.
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I was raised LDS (Mormon) in Utah during the ’60’s so alcohol, coffee,Coke/Pepsi, and tobacco were all absolutely forbidden for us.
Ironically enough almost all of us children ended having serious problems with one or more of these substances.
When my children were young we allowed them to have small amounts of alcohol (beer or wine) with meals. The long term result neither of them has any trouble with alcohol or any other substance now.
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Conor,
Thank you for sharing your story.
Are you still affiliated with the Mormon Church?.. if you aren’t, where do you attend church now.
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Victoria,
No, I am no longer LDS. I came to know the Lord in my late 20’s in a rather strange fashion;I became a Jehovah’s Witness. The Witnesses taught me to trust that the Bible was in fact the word of God, that it was translated correctly, and that it could be trusted.
Over time however, reading (and trusting) the Bible on my own without the assistance of Watchtower publications to aid my understanding forced me to leave the Witnesses by convincing me that they were not in fact “The Truth”.
Later my wife, children and I joined the Catholic Church thinking it was probably “The Truth” since it had been around from the time of Peter. In time though we became more and more uncomfortable with rituals and practices that we believed were unscriptural.
In time we came to know the Lord in a Baptist church in Las Vegas. Doctrinally I now consider myself a four point leaning towards five point Calvinist. We currently attend a small Lutheran church on Guam.
I’m also finishing up the last few credits towards a BA from Pacific Islands Bible College with a major in Bible Studies. I’m by no means an expert on theology but PIBC has taught me enough to be confident that after a long circuitous route to know “The Truth” I’m finally at least on the right track.
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I grew up in liberal Methodist church. We never had alcohol in the home (tho’ years later, I learned my parents had a glass of wine on the rare times they were away from their family of four boys).
With our daughter, we followed a similar practice: no alcohol in the home — though we would have that glass of wine or a beer when she wasn’t around. Her first glass of wine was in France in her sophomore year at the University.
On general terms, alcohol can be pleasurable, but that pleasure has its dangers, I think principally because we often use inebriation as a way to distance ourselves. That distance is the seedbed for all manner of sin, from loose mouths, to sexual immorality, to murderous rage.
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Conor, Thank you for sharing your testimony. It has blessed my day.
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Two related thoughts:
I think it was last week that Michael Medved was juxtaposing the legal drinking age (21) and the legal killing-for-Caesar age (18 — or 17+ with parental approval).
When one of the doctors cited in the Times piece says the responsibility center of the brain isn’t even fully developed until 25, it reminds me that the biblical age of military service is 20 — two whole years after Americans can kill for Caesar … or vote for that matter.
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It also happens that Dennis Prager discussed the Times piece on his show yesterday. Even though he mostly eschews booze, he agrees that parents have the right, the responsibility, and the authority to train their own children to enjoy God’s gift of alcohol in moderation.
But then Dennis’ blog post on the topic is entitled “Should Parents Introduce Children to Vices?” A strange way to pose the question, don’t you think?
Here is my answer:
VS (19): Is alcohol a drug or isn’t it?
VS (37): During drug awareness programs in the schools, alcohol is included as a drug.
Because it’s “legal” doesn’t make it ok.
Frank: As Christians, we should take our primary teaching re. the proper use of alcohol from God’s word, not from the State Department of Endoctri … er, “Education.”
E.g., the very same public scrools that liken wine to pot, coke and meth probably teach contraceptive use or can refer their students to abortion doctors without their parents’ knowledge.
I agree in principle with your “just becuase it’s legal” remark. But then, God’s word is replete with testimony that wind is a gift of God that gladdens our hearts, but that drunkenness is a sinful abuse of that gift.
And like His other gifts (sexuality, e.g.), it is the responsibility of parents to teach their children the proper role and place of those gifts so that they may responsibly enjoy them before God.
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Conor – 56
You sure have been around the block with LDS, JW’s, RRC and now a Baptist Bible College. Your background is certainly interesting. What are you going to do after Bible School?
I’m in the middle regarding CALVINISM – ARMINIANISM.
Hope you don’t mind all the questions, but your background is interesting to me, as I’ve done research on cults.
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What a great, thoughtful thread!
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There was a time in this country when Alcohol was the devil’s drink and doctors gave cocain to those diagnosed with “sloth and lethargy.” My folks let me have a taste and talked with me about alcohol while I was a teenager. They also taught me to be responsible. What I believe the issue truely boils down to is: how well do you trust your children? By introducing the concept of drinking and allowing a taste in a controled, safe environment, young adults will be less likely to abuse later when they are no longer supervised by their parents.
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I think a better analogy might be drunkedness and gluttony. It’s not uncommon to see folks who forbid alcohol struggle with gluttony. And the health consequences from obesity are just as plentiful as they are for alcoholism. If alcohol is a problem for you – don’t drink! On the other hand, don’t judge fellow Christians who can handle that particular liberty – assuming they are drinking responsibly.
Most of my Christian experience has involved attending churches that teach any use of alcohol is sinful. And yet these same churches believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible (as I do) but when it comes to Jesus turning water into wine they part from their own standard. Now why would anyone serve grape juice at a wedding? We’ve saved the best Welch’s for last – Yippee!!! I firmly believe in all things moderation.
On another note, I grew up in an alcoholic home with both parents serious alcoholics. After becoming a Christian, I didn’t drink for many years but now enjoy a glass or two of wine on weekends. I also work with substance abusers and know how devastating alcohol can be particularly for young people who can – with heavy usage -become addicted quicker than adults .
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