Comments on: Criminal defense attorney, on the defensive http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/ A forum for discussion of news that arises at the intersection of Christianity and culture. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:12:29 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Chas http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/comment-page-1/#comment-288664 Chas Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:00:25 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/#comment-288664 And if the defense doesn't have money for powerful lawers, as O.J. did, he's in trouble. Like Scooter Libby. (Though that likely wasn't his problem.) I know, somebody will come here to say, <b>SCOOTER LIED!</b> Scooter was set up, and you know it. And if the defense doesn’t have money for powerful lawers, as O.J. did, he’s in trouble. Like Scooter Libby. (Though that likely wasn’t his problem.) I know, somebody will come here to say, SCOOTER LIED!
Scooter was set up, and you know it.

Report comment to moderator

]]> By: krm http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/comment-page-1/#comment-288629 krm Tue, 01 Apr 2008 01:07:10 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/#comment-288629 Chas - It is unfortunate, but part of a prosecutor's performance review revolves around conviction rate. Some also develop the mentality that the system is to be all out adversarial (both prosecution and defense swing for the fences on every matter - such that the prosecutor essentially abdicates his gatekeeper of justice function and simply relies on the defense to protect the defendant). Most are fairly good people, but many are overworked/overburdened with caseloads such that the 'let's make a deal' mentality creeps in. Chas – It is unfortunate, but part of a prosecutor’s performance review revolves around conviction rate. Some also develop the mentality that the system is to be all out adversarial (both prosecution and defense swing for the fences on every matter – such that the prosecutor essentially abdicates his gatekeeper of justice function and simply relies on the defense to protect the defendant).

Most are fairly good people, but many are overworked/overburdened with caseloads such that the ‘let’s make a deal’ mentality creeps in.

Report comment to moderator

]]> By: Chas http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/comment-page-1/#comment-288628 Chas Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:57:57 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/#comment-288628 Coming real late to this debate, but I wonder about prosecuting attorneys. Given the Duke Lacrosse case, and the Border patrol officers case. It seems to me that some prosecutors want a conviction at any cost. It would seem to me that a government man would want justice at any cost. However, there are enough instances to indicate that is not the case. Serious question. Can anyone enlghten me on this. I will check in tomorrow. Coming real late to this debate, but I wonder about prosecuting attorneys. Given the Duke Lacrosse case, and the Border patrol officers case. It seems to me that some prosecutors want a conviction at any cost. It would seem to me that a government man would want justice at any cost. However, there are enough instances to indicate that is not the case.
Serious question. Can anyone enlghten me on this. I will check in tomorrow.

Report comment to moderator

]]> By: Kiyoshi http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/comment-page-1/#comment-288627 Kiyoshi Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:37:03 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/#comment-288627 My friends who practice criminal law are generally on good terms with the local prosecutors. The kind of stuff that we see on TV legal dramas rarely happens in the lives of real lawyers. My friends who practice criminal law are generally on good terms with the local prosecutors. The kind of stuff that we see on TV legal dramas rarely happens in the lives of real lawyers.

Report comment to moderator

]]> By: NJLawyer http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/comment-page-1/#comment-288589 NJLawyer Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:48:39 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/#comment-288589 Well said, SteveG. Well said, SteveG.

Report comment to moderator

]]> By: SteveG http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/comment-page-1/#comment-288549 SteveG Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:16:41 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/#comment-288549 <i>Michael Martin, you wouldn’t be trying to prove the innocence of a guilty client; rather you would be raising the reasonable doubt.</i> The role of the defense attorney is not just about defending the client; it's also about (maybe much more about) keeping the government on its toes. The whole reason for having an adversarial system in which the defendant is presumed innocent is to ensure that the government can't put people away too easily. The defense attorney's job is to challenge evidence, raise doubt, catch witnesses in false statements, etc. -- not to get a guilty person off, but to require the government to behave scrupulously and thoroughly in order to prove its case. Michael Martin, you wouldn’t be trying to prove the innocence of a guilty client; rather you would be raising the reasonable doubt.

The role of the defense attorney is not just about defending the client; it’s also about (maybe much more about) keeping the government on its toes.

The whole reason for having an adversarial system in which the defendant is presumed innocent is to ensure that the government can’t put people away too easily. The defense attorney’s job is to challenge evidence, raise doubt, catch witnesses in false statements, etc. — not to get a guilty person off, but to require the government to behave scrupulously and thoroughly in order to prove its case.

Report comment to moderator

]]> By: krm http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/comment-page-1/#comment-288543 krm Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:03:31 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/#comment-288543 NJL - My jury experience (right before entering law school) was an eyeopening experince too. I think all lawyers should have to be on a jury before being permitted to practice in front of one. NJL – My jury experience (right before entering law school) was an eyeopening experince too.

I think all lawyers should have to be on a jury before being permitted to practice in front of one.

Report comment to moderator

]]> By: NJLawyer http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/comment-page-1/#comment-288536 NJLawyer Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:47:48 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/#comment-288536 Dad of 5, I sat on a jury a month after I passed the bar and was still working for a judge. I was totally embarrased to have to admit both things when questioned. The very first thing all the other jurors said when we went into deliberations was how awful and sleazy the lawyers were, but hastily added "present company excepted." But they were so right! Lawyers who over act and think it's all about them suffer in the long run via their reputation. Michael Martin, you wouldn't be trying to prove the innocence of a guilty client; rather you would be raising the reasonable doubt. Dad of 5, I sat on a jury a month after I passed the bar and was still working for a judge. I was totally embarrased to have to admit both things when questioned. The very first thing all the other jurors said when we went into deliberations was how awful and sleazy the lawyers were, but hastily added “present company excepted.” But they were so right! Lawyers who over act and think it’s all about them suffer in the long run via their reputation.

Michael Martin, you wouldn’t be trying to prove the innocence of a guilty client; rather you would be raising the reasonable doubt.

Report comment to moderator

]]> By: Michael Martin http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/comment-page-1/#comment-288532 Michael Martin Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:41:29 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/#comment-288532 P.S. I just read the excerpts of Sherman's book. I am going to buy it. He has already convinced me that all criminal defense lawyers aren't scum. But, then again, maybe I'm just gullible and he is already using his courtroom smarts on me. I need to read more. P.S. I just read the excerpts of Sherman’s book. I am going to buy it. He has already convinced me that all criminal defense lawyers aren’t scum.

But, then again, maybe I’m just gullible and he is already using his courtroom smarts on me.

I need to read more.

Report comment to moderator

]]> By: krm http://online.worldmag.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/comment-page-1/#comment-288519 krm Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:14:04 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/31/criminal-defense-attorney-on-the-defensive/#comment-288519 Having spent a brief period of time working in a Public Defender office, my perception was that the far bigger problem was the 'assemblyline' nature of the process that largely requiring an essex of plea bargaining for the system to function. The lawyers were not really in much of a position (and were not mcuh inclined) to try to job the system. Private practice guys - with an unlimited resources client - might be very different. However, there are few unlimited resources criminal defendants (they get lots of press, but there are not many of them). Having spent a brief period of time working in a Public Defender office, my perception was that the far bigger problem was the ‘assemblyline’ nature of the process that largely requiring an essex of plea bargaining for the system to function.

The lawyers were not really in much of a position (and were not mcuh inclined) to try to job the system. Private practice guys – with an unlimited resources client – might be very different. However, there are few unlimited resources criminal defendants (they get lots of press, but there are not many of them).

Report comment to moderator

]]>