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The secularist and Islamic tag-team
This article at Mercator suggests a link between secularism and Islam: Neither believe in a shared power structure between Church and State (one or the other always wins out). Neither believe that faith and reason are reconcilable. Both seek to destroy American capitalism. Both have little belief in freedom of the will. Both have legitimized violence to enforce political ideologies. Both assign inferior status to non-adherents. And, of course, both are co-belligerents in the cultural war against Christianity. Read for yourself and tell me if this guy’s got something, or not.
Topic: Religion, WorldMagBlog
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back to top20 Comments to “The secularist and Islamic tag-team”
I only read about half of the article, but it doesn’t matter.
Islam and secularism are irreconcilable enemies. If the secularists among us imagine they can live with Islam better than Christianity, wait until shaira is imposed. Islam is opposed to everything that isn’t Islam, including every government that imposed secular rule. That includes Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan, Morocco and other nations that are not strict Islamists.
Two great religions have the directive from their originators to spread that religion.
Christ said “Go into all the world and make disciples.”
Mohammed said, “Go forth and conquer”.
(Not the exact words, but I can prove the truth of that last statement.)
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Liberalism, with its non-discriminating worship of diversity and tolerance, is one of Islam’s useful idiots.
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Both are fascists! See Jonah Goldberg’s new book, “Liberal Fascism.”
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Posts 1-3 are all right. The sad thing is that the liberals don’t see it coming. There are none so blind….
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Chas:
Christ said “Go into all the world and make disciples.”
Mohammed said, “Go forth and conquer”.
(Not the exact words, but I can prove the truth of that last statement.)
Yep, I guess that’s why we had crusades, inquisitions and a couple of centuries of Western colonialism.
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The Mercator article has many good points and throws some light on the common ground occupied by these competing religions, secularism and Islam. They share a common enemy, Christianity, and they use the same unholy methods in the fight.
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I have been reading books on Islam (written by Muslims) lately, and I haven’t seen anything about that kind of separation between faith and reason. I think the author of this article is seeing Islam as much more monolithic than it is. There are no doubt some Muslims who would fit his description, but there are a variety of different traditions in Islam just as in Judaism and Christianity, and his sweeping generalizations simply don’t fit everyone.
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#3 Samuel,
Correctomundo! Secular Socialists are against everything this country was founded on not to mention against what would normally be considered fair, decent and honest by any sane standard.
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Pauline, you have probably been reading American Crescent by Imam Hassan Qazwini who is an apologist for Islam in America. I might also recommend other books written by Muslims. (Other than Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, which I believe you’ve read.)
The Al Qaeda Reader by Raymond Ibrahim
My Year Inside Radical Islam by Daveed Gardenstein-Ross,
Now they Call Me Infidel by Nonie darwish.
It may be true that only about ten percent are radical, but they are teaching Jihad in their schools in Muslem countries. They have infiltrated ours. (Qazwini). read also Terrorist Hunter by Anonymous. If only 10% are radical, that means that only about 200,000,000 are out to get us.
Not all germans were Nazis.
Nobody believed what Hitler or Stalin said either.
I think we ought to believe what they say.
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Chas,
I did read American Crescent. I’m currently reading The Shia Revival: How Conflicts within Islam Will Shape the Future. I didn’t have my book list with me at the library Saturday, and I couldn’t remember which books you had recommended. The only one of those you list here that they had was My Year Inside Radical Islam.
I agree that Radical Islam is a danger, and we need to be aware of it. The moderate Muslims consider it a danger also. What I object to is saying “Islam” when what is meant is “radical Islam.” Or thinking that radical Islam is the only kind.
I don’t think secularism and radical Islam will ever get along, whatever similarities they may have. Secularism and moderate Islam may get along well enough. I don’t see how ignoring the differences helps us in dealing with the very real dangers posed by radical Islam.
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Go to
http://www.memritv.com
watch video clip 669.
They are not our friends.
Mimritv is an interesting site to visit occasionally.
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Well, the author’s understanding of secularism seems to be completely at odds with reality.
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Don’t know how to tell you this SteveG, but pretty much that’s how I see liberals. Perhaps you could expound more?
Pauline, I understand what you mean about a difference between radical Islam and moderate Islam, but the moderates don’t speak up. You may have read in the news today that there is an imam in the UK who is a radical and who believes that all Muslims are innocent, everyone else is guilty, so it’s okay to rape and kill them (us). The day is rapidly approaching when the moderates will have to speak up if they don’t want to be lumped in with the radicals. More than speak up, actually. They’ll have to start doing the right thing.
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NJL
We have many who live here, they never say one word. Their SILENCE speaks for itself, however I wonder how many people realize this?
They will tell us how much they love living here, rather than where they came from, but that’s all the kudos we hear.
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NJLawyer:
Well first, “secularists” and “liberals” are not the same thing. There may be significant overlap, but they are two different groups.
Secularists simply believe that civil society should be free of religious influence. And since that’s what the author and I spoke of, I’ll expound on that.
Point by point:
Neither believe in a shared power structure between Church and State (one or the other always wins out).
This is one the author is correct about a relevant point. Savor it, as it is the only one.
Neither believe that faith and reason are reconcilable.
Overgeneralization. This is certainly true of some secularists, even many, but not all. Some secularists are religious themselves, and their secularism only means they don’t believe in trying to shape public society after their religious beliefs. Others appreciate the reconciliation of reason and faith intellectually but don’t embrace faith even so.
Both seek to destroy American capitalism.
Right-wing boogeyman, not at all true.
Both have little belief in freedom of the will.
I’m not sure what is meant by this, but if it means secularists don’t believe humans have free will, this too is bunk.
Both have legitimized violence to enforce political ideologies.
Eh. Not in America. And besides, so have Christians. This is probably true of every group at one time and place or another. So, true, but irrelevant.
Both assign inferior status to non-adherents.
Again, eh. Christians don’t? Conservatives don’t? Again, something that might be true, as a broad generalization at least, but hardly unique to secularists.
And, of course, both are co-belligerents in the cultural war against Christianity.
Again, total bunk. Secularists in general (as always there are exceptions) have no interest in opposing Christianity except when Christians are trying to claim some special right to co-opt the government to endorse the religion.
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#13
NJLawyer,
From what I have read, the moderates do speak up, but they don’t get the press coverage that the radicals do.
Here is one moderate Muslim’s perspective on the matter:
http://misc.vassar.edu/archives/2007/04/letters_to_the_45.html
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SteveG and I are usually on opposite sides of the argument. However, after reading it twice, I can’t find anything wrong with his post.
I think the difference is in application of the truth.
Neither believe in a shared power structure between church and state.
Baptist were at the forefront of this is Virginia.
However, in application, the idea that a copy of the 10 Commandments that has been in the court house 150 years should be removed is repulsive. It doesn’t make sense to remove long held traditions under the ruse of “wall of separation between church and state.” A letter that was written to Baptist, BTW.
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Chas hits on a key point in #18. Separation of church and state is not just about keeping the church out of government, as many today think it is; it’s also about keeping the government out of the church.
I’ve never understood how any freedom-loving American could have a problem with the principle.
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I haven’t read the article but based on Harrison’s summary it seems to equate “secularists” with a certain type of radical Marxist Progressivism. They may be one subspecies of “secularist” but are by no means a dominant one. John Derbyshire and Heather MacDonald for instance are conservative secularists. Ayn Rand was a radically pro-Capitalist atheist secularist, and on and on.
I myself am extremely pro-capitalist and consider my self a “soft” secularist.
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Comparing “moderate” Islam to “radical” Islam is like comparing “moderate” Nazism to “radical” Nazism. In reality, you have those who strictly adhere, and those who adhere very little, if at all.
And in reference to Arcadia’s post:
Yes, because Hindu women being forced to hurl themselves on their husband’s funeral pyres was so much better than British Colonialism.
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