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Happy Earth Day!
Today’s quote is from an architect: “There is nothing more uncommon than common sense.”
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back to top57 Comments to “Whirled Views 4.22”
Today’s quote is from Frank Lloyd Wright. BTW Kristin. How is Lynn Vincent?
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I will celebrate Earth Day by thinking some more about mulching around my azaleas. I also may cut the grass in the back.
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It is earth day but it is also my wife Cindy’s birthday. She shares this birthday with Peter Frampton.
The contaminated hospital heparin from Red China has me thinking: why do we have the origin country on all our imported fruit but not on any of our imported drugs, like heparin?!
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Good Morning Saw Gunner. What is the weather like in the Lone Star State like these days?
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Yes, is Lynn on the mend?
We are having a splendid day in NJ for earth day. Just breathing in the fresh air and looking at the flowers and trees coming to life renews the spirit. Time for a long walk!
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Would going for a bike ride/hike picnic then teaching my son about packing out the trash be a good way to celebrate Earth Day?
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KBells, I would think that would be an excellent way to teach a little one. When you pick up trash (or work in the garden cleaning up debris), you can see a result right away.
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I will not celebrate Earth Day. What a fraud of a holiday. I went to one of the first Earth Day celebrations as a high school student. It was at a college and we were taken there on a field trip arranged by my high school English teacher. She had us all read *The Population Bomb*. If the book had been true, we all would have starved to death by now. We probably would have died of thirst first, of course or froze to death. At any rate none of us would be here to read or write on blogs.
I will celebrate the wonderful Creator who made this universe. I will celebrate Jesus Christ who my bible tells me holds it all together. I will also do my best to keep my environment clean just as I will my home. I will be a good stewart of the earth, but will not worship it, as many in this movement do.
I hope all you parents are carefully checking what your children will learn on this day. Planting trees, cleaning up trash or learning scientific facts about the earth is great. Unfortunately there is a lot of trash taught also.
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Friends,
Can something be “Protestant” but not “Christian”? Yes. I see the United States Founding as a politically Protestant, but not theologically Christian event.
For instance, Jefferson rejected the following:
In doing so, he was being a good Protestant, but not a good Christian. For more see the following:
http://positiveliberty.com/2008/04/americas-protestant-but-not-christian-founding.html
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KI,
The population bomb, while the dire predictions haven’t come to the death of us all, is a book that quite clearly states the real problems faced by mankind then, today and in the future all based on the fact that there are too many people for the earth, society and capitalism to support.
Thems the facts. There are just too many of us and not enough; food, money, jobs, education, shelter, raw materials, etc to support us.
We are now consuming natural rescources at exponential rates, causing huge jumps in prices that poor people will never afford. We pollute horribly, adding to the natural global warming that has been happening for the last 10,000 years. We spoil our air, water and natural habitat with our exponetial growth.
Horrible consequences await us but they don’t have anything to do with global warming, pollution or Earth Day. These consequences are directly tied to too many people. Were the breaking point lies is anyones guess but it much closer than anyone wants to admit.
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Ki at #8: I hope all you parents are carefully checking what your children will learn on this day.
Oh fer the luvva Pete. Is there anything at all outside of the Bible that Christains won’t view with suspicion?
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Who read House by Peretti?
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SteveG,
Paul reminds us to be like the Bereans–to check all we hear against Scripture, including what he taught.
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I read *House*, Mumsee. It was very good.
SteveG, I speak from experience.
Llama, I do not believe God told us to multiply and then made a world that won’t survive if we obey. Funny thing is that he was able to help His people survive in the desert for 40 years. He fed them and gave them water. Their clothes didn’t even wear out. We are foolish to believe that God created the world, put it in human hands and then left us to ourselves. We are also foolish if we believe the earth is as fragile as some would make it out to be. Maybe we just need to return to worshipping the true God who made it and ask for His wisdom and help.
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(LOS ANGELES, CALIF.) April 20, 2008 – Amidst harsh reviews from secular movie critics, and dismal predictions of box office failure, Ben Stein’s EXPELLED defied expectations and became a fan-favorite with reports of standing ovations at theaters across the nation. Opening on less than half the number of screens of any of the other top 10 movies of the weekend,EXPELLED debuted at No. 10 and banked $3 million for the weekend April 18-20, according to Boxofficemojo.com.
Based on a per screen average, EXPELLED ranked even better at No. 5, and brought in approximately $3,000 per screen, toping notables such as Nim’s Island, 21, Street Kings, and Dr. Seuss’ Horton Hears a Who, and dwarfing the other much-anticipated documentary of the weekend, Morgan Spurlock’s Where in the World is Osama Bin Laden?
The Los Angeles Times’ Josh Friedman wrote that the opening was “robust for a documentary,” while Entertainment Weekly’s Joshua Rich said its gross was “very respectable” for its genre. “Expelled … fared better than prerelease tracking had signaled,” Friedman of The Times wrote.
Pre-weekend predictions within the movie industry estimated EXPELLED’s box office take at $1.5 to $2 million, but by opening day Friday afternoon, EXPELLED had moved up to #2 on Fandango.com’s “hottest tickets” chart, and LATimes.com business section was reporting “Expelled could exceed box-office forecasts”.
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Jon Rowe, A person can be a “church man” and not be a Christian. Jesus called such individuals “tares” Tares are “Darnel Grass”. They look just like wheat, It grows in wheat fields. When the harvest is taken up and kernel of the tare is opened there is no fruit inside the tare kernel. Can someone be a member of High Church organization and not be a true believer in Christ? Absolutely. This is why Jonathan Edwards preached the sermon: Sinners in the hands of an Angry God. He feared that many of his flock were not true believers and had not truly come to saving faith. He observed that their was no fruit or “holy affections” in their lives.
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Joe B: You are correct! Shall it be a spiced chai again?
And Lynn is on the mend. We hope to have her back soon.
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KI,
Thanks, somebody on here had mentioned reading it so I picked it up when I had the chance. Almost gave it up as it was too weird except that I really like the Peretti books and whoever on here had commented positively. Kept going and, you are right, it was quite good. Things to think about. Thanks for mentioning it back when if it was you!
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I don’t remember mentioning it, but who knows? It was very different and scary. I vaguely remember there was some talk of it, because a movie of it came out. I haven’t seen the movie. I guess I should. I always see movies advertised that I would like to see sometime and then forget to do it. Being at the edge of the earth, our theater tends to get movies quite late. Who knows when or if “Expelled” will ever be here. One disadvantage of living in the boonies.
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KI.
Llama, I do not believe God told us to multiply and then made a world that won’t survive if we obey.
The world will survive just fine – it’s the too many billions of people that will not. Try not to think about the 16,000 children a day that die today (just children mind you) because of starvation, no water, disease and war. Try not think about the millions that have died in Africa alone over the last 50 years and I’m not talking about the AIDS deaths either.
Forget about the other millions who have died in other parts of the world for these same reasons.
Yes, when God told us to go forth and multiply the world was a perfect Garden of Eden. But because of our sin, God changed the rules about the Garden and made it a something quite different than Eden. We can’t save ourselves from ourselves as God has told us so often.
Humans will do anything to survive, this being the natural evolution of the the survival of the fittest and all. God helps those that help themselves is the motto. Sadly, not all will survive the competition for the severely limited future raw materials, food and resources required ….errrrr….to survive.
While probably premature, I also wouldn’t read the Book of Revelations if I were you either
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Joe B.,
You are right. George Whitefield had a term for them and it was “Christless talkers.” My contention is America’s key Founders [Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, & Franklin] were precisely these types of nominal Christians who saw religion as a social duty but didn’t believe in orthodox doctrines like original sin, the trinity, incarnation, and atonement.
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Mumsee, I felt the same about “House”. It gets better the farther in you get.
About the Population explosion, I admit that when I worked for orthodox catholics it was a little hard to look at video of families with six or seven half naked, hungry children in third world countries and understand the no birth control rule.
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Llama,
I hadn’t realized you were in this extreme position regarding human beings. I’ve seen credible evidence that that is far from reality on several levels. First, farming is becoming more efficient; the countries with vast numbers of deaths all belong to societies with corrupt leadership. Second, we’re at a population peak and are about to start leveling off and then going down in numbers.
God never rescinded His order to be fruitful and multiply. And God doesn’t punish people for obedience. I’d rather trust Him than trust the most exaggerated fear scenarios.
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Cheryl,
I think Llama has finally gone off the deep end…
Either that or he’s trying to make a point.
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Guessing that Llama knows better than “God helps those who help themselves”, my money is on trying to make a point.
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Llama – also, in many countries around the world, lack of resources is not why people are starving. They are starving for 2 reasons: first, because of tyrannical rulers who steal resources for themselves and their powerful friends, leaving the populous to fend for themselves. Second, people around the world are dying from disease because of erroneous belief systems. Africans getting AIDS is a good example. Some believe promiscuous sex is good and sex with underage girls is fine. Unfortunately, that has led to consequences. The same has happened in our country. I think the problem is less with population, and more with value systems and beliefs that stray from God.
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Llama, Japan has a very high population. How many are starving because of it? The world is full of the effects of sin and starvation is one of those effects. I am not in charge of the world. I cannot feed all those starving children, just as I can’t stop all the horrible child molestation or the people who worship idols. I don’t try to carry the world on my shoulders. God only expects me to do what I can in where He has placed me. I know plenty about the effects of sin, thank you. I have read Revelation several times, so it is too late to warn me. I’m not sure whose motto is God helps them who help themselves. My God helped me long before I could help myself. In fact, there would be no salvation if that were true.
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#24 Make it Man,
Correctomundo. Actually I’ve never even been close to a deep end, other than in Nam a couple of times, but I do hope to get close to one some day. I had hoped to be next to a deep end all the time in retirement just to keep some excitement alive in an otherwise dreary outlook with death being at the other end of the tunnel and all.
I believe that I have a still hidden point to make but it is not quite time to leap off the cliff. Hopefully, someone else will make the connections.
At least it is nice to know that some folks have picked up that something jus isn’t kosher in Llamadom
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LOL, Llama!
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Hello Outkast! Hope all is well in your world.
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Sawgunner: Do something special for Cindy. You will, of course, take her out to dinner.
While I was preparing a paper at the Naval War College, I read somewhere that, if properly managed, the (former) Soviet areas occupied by Poland, Ukrane & Belarus (the article didn’t separate them out at the time) could provide the wheat to feed the entire world. I have heard similar statements about our midwest.
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Llama,
I’m guess it has something to do with Urth Day…
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I’m interviewing and writing an article on this very subject today. How do you/did you determine the size of your family? What effect did Scripture have on your decision?
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Oh, my! I haven’t been around for a couple of weeks (I know I was probably *sorely* missed…8*) What in the world is wrong with Lynn?
33–Prayer. Knowing God would “open and close” the womb.
Nice to see all you familiar folks!
Blessings!
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#33
Michelle,
I came from a family of two children, my husband came from a family of three, and I guess the idea of 2 or 3 children just seemed about right. I don’t remember talking about it much.
We wanted to have a second child 2-3 years after the first so they would be close enough in age to enjoy playing together but far enough apart that they would not have competition quite as intense as my husband and his younger brother (22 months apart). It took another five years before I finally became pregnant again, so instead they’re 7 years apart. During the second pregnancy I had a lot of trouble walking (used a cane a lot), and my blood pressure was getting high. I was in my late 30’s and we agreed that it would be best for me not to get pregnant again, so I had my tubes tied the day after giving birth.
We have talked from time to time about having a third child by adoption, but it hasn’t been the right time yet (moves, job losses, my depression, our younger son having autism and needing special attention himself, financial struggles, crazy schedule with my husband working nights).
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Hey, momoffour! I was beginning to wonder where you were.
Hope all is well.
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Michelle 33- We decided it was the Lord who opens and closes the womb. We used natural methods to avoid pregnancy (such as watching Mrs L’s cycle closely to have an idea when she was most likely to get pregnant), but the Lord surprised us twice. We ended up with four wonderful children, though the two older daughters were not our plan (but much loved and wanted). The Lord also saw fit to take two more through miscarriages.
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Pauline – Did you ever figure out the source of the water in your basement? How did all that turn out?
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Michelle 33- We decided it was the Lord who opens and closes the womb. We used natural methods to avoid pregnancy (such as watching Mrs L’s cycle closely to have an idea when she was most likely to get pregnant), but the Lord surprised us twice. We ended up with four wonderful children, though the two older daughters were not our plan (but much loved and wanted). The Lord also saw fit to take two more through miscarriages.
Just a bit capricious of Him, don’t you think? You followed his Word to the best of your abilities and woundnd up with two unwished-for pregnancies and two more which never saw the light of day.
I really do not mean to belittle either the joy or pain behind your post, but both faith and seeking to enforce its edicts upon others in the face of such events simply does not seem rational to me.
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Arcadia, such a nasty post, but very predictable!
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KLasko,
The water dried up eventually (we got as much as we could with the shop-vac, then let the dehumidifier do the rest), and hasn’t come back. For now I’m assuming it had to do the with sudden thaw, which probably left more water behind than even a heavy rainstorm (since it had previously been cold enough for snow from several storms to accumulate). I still don’t know what there is I can do to pinpoint the problem and try to prevent/minimize possibility of a repeat.
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I think Jon Rowe is wrong to judge the faith of our founding fathers. He fails to appreciate that they were a mixed lot when he lumps them all together to deny (incorrectly) that they were Christians. I don’t even think we should judge people in our own day that way, let alone those we never knew. Using isolated excerpts from various letters also is not a fair standard for such sweeping judgments.
Many of them claimed to be Christians. Whether that claim fits with God’s definition os for God to decide.
The only one whose Christianity I think it is fair to question is that of Thomas Jefferson, although he too at one time claimed to be a “Christian.”
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Here are some quotes from John Adams, a fine Christian statesman, in my view.
From the diary of John Adams on August 14, 1796 (Quoted from Sydney Ahlstrum’s book, ‘A Religious History of the American People’):
“One great advantage of the Christian Religion is that it brings the great Principle of the Law of Nature and Nations, Love your Neighbor as yourself and do to others as you would that others should do to you,–to the Knowledge, Belief and Veneration of the whole people.”
He was clearly referring to the “Christian religion” as the source that brings that great principle of law and love to the “whole people.”
Sounds like he envisioned a “Christian nation.” But I agree that he also envisioned a secular government for this “Christian nation.”
What John Adams said as a founder regarding the “great advantage of the Christian religion” (his words) was clearly not meant to apply merely to his own personal expression or beliefs. He was speaking of the benefit of the Christian religion (as he understood it corporately at that time) for the whole country–a benefit that transcends that which Laws and governments can do for the nation. Did you catch the phrase “whole people” in his quote?
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I worked like the dickens to have the one I have. Spent money on infertility treatment. Spent money on vitamins and minerals. Had everyone I knew personally praying for me to have a baby and when I travelled in sales called the prayer hotline of every town I went into. I can’t tell you how many times I flew into Raleigh, checked into the hotel, and called the prayer hotline…just in case they had forgotten me. Also a coworker read Deuteronomy 7 over me and prayed for a baby.
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Adams also wrote:
“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams, Oct. 11, 1798 – from an address to the military, quoted in The Works of John Adams.
This quote does not establish or deny various points of Christian doctrine for Adams personally, but it shows the respect Adams had for religion. And “religion” in his day mainly referred to Christianity. Adams was well aware of other religions and he respected their freedom too. But Adams himself was raised from good Puritan stock and belonged to a Congregational church in good standing and was a free thinker with whom I probably would disagree on some counts. But that’s true of many people I can fellowship with as a fellow Christian. I let God be the judge.
In that 1796 quote (above at #43), Adams was not referring to a unitarianism particular to his own mind or time (his or otherwise), but “the Christian religion.” Adams saw the “Christian religion” as the source that brings the “great” principles of law and love to the “whole people.”
I like that.
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We had three children and I would have liked at least one more. They were all delivered by C-Section (I get diabetic when pregnant) and after the last one, one of the doctors said I better not have another. Another doctor told me, it was up to me, but there could be some problems. We decided we would count the blessings we already had and leave it at that. I did pray before my youngest was conceived about whether or not to have another. The other two I just knew I wanted. I was greatly blessed because each one was very much wanted.
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I’m not “judging,” I’m categorizing.
I realize they were a mixed bag and there were deists like Paine and Allen along with orthodox Christians like Sam Adams, Patrick Henry and John Witherspoon.
I’m just pointing out the key Founders — Washington, J. Adams, Jefferson, Madison, & Franklin — were neither strict Deists nor orthodox Christians. They did consider themselves “Protestant Christians,” in some broad, theologically liberal sense of the term. But given they rejected original sin, the trinity, incarnation, atonement, infallibility of the Bible — it’s entirely debatable whether they can be properly termed “Christian.” They saw themselves as enlightened reformers of the Christian religion and wanted it to so enlighten to reject “irrational” Trinitarian orthodoxy. Arguably their enlightened, “rational Christianity” wasn’t Christianity, but a different animal, founding era unitarian-universalism, that presented itself under the auspices of “Christianity.”
Is there someone here who wants to defend the proposition that you can reject original sin, the trinity, incarnation, atonement, infallibility of the Bible and still be a “Christian”? Are you defending this notion Joel?
Re Adams’ statement about “the whole people,” the whole people weren’t orthodox Trinitarian Christians. 99% of the population was probably Protestant Christian in some kind of nominal sense; but back then as today there were lots of nominal, unchurched Christians; and lots of unitarians like himself. He was drawing a lowest common denominator among all of these folks and grouping it under the rubric of “Christianity.”
That’s exactly what he did in his “general principles of Christianity” quotation where he includes “Deists and Atheists, and Protestants who believe nothing” as sects united under the “general principles of Christianity.”
As Gregg Frazer noted,
This was clearly not the Christianity of the orthodox, who did not believe that deists, atheists, and those who believe nothing were united with true Christians on any principles of Christianity!
http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2007/04/what-is-christianity/#comment-41706
In any event, when John Adams praises Christianity, he makes it into a “civil religion” and, in so doing, guts Christianity of its core tenets like original sin, the trinity, incarnation, atonement, infallibility of the Bible, etc. Orthodox ministers of the gospel shouldn’t, it seems to me, be praising Adams in this regard.
[If you look post where that comment is taken from you see Michael Novak personally responding to my arguments.]
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Momoffour, Lynn is on medical leave till the end of the month; we haven’t been told more than that. If you want to see what happens when she leaves, put “scepter” into the search box and read that whole thread….
Pauline, having had a sister 16 months younger who seemed like a little girl and a brother 38 months younger who seemed hopelessly childish, I simply can’t imagine purposely putting children more than two years apart. To me the ideal would be pairs of children perhaps 18 months apart.
My decision about children has been made for me because I’m single,
but I’ve always thought I wanted four kids, at least two of them girls, and would want to adopt if I had fewer than four. I don’t think birth control is an absolute no-no, but I lean toward thinking it’s a bad idea, partly because everyone I know who was on the pill for more than two years paid for it physically, and partly because the anti-child philosophy it engenders is pretty bad. (Ask parents of more than three children how many people think that it’s a good idea for them to have more.) I personally can’t imagine having ten or more children, even though I grew up as one of seven.
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Cheryl,
I read your post about the small infants you saw on a field trip, the picture you gave was very easy to see.
You may still have those longed for children in your life. GOD has a plan, and you just might not see it yet. There are wonderful men who have lost their wives, who would dearly love someone just like you.
GOD bless you
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Well this is good news!!
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080422192609.lcpkej77&show_article=1
We need a conscience clause in the US as well. That would be better news!!
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I’m a little upset today though because it’s Earth day and I’m laid up with 2 bum legs and various bruises, contusions, cuts, and scrapes. I didn’t get to do my part for momma earth. I had it all planned out too. I was gonna burn tires and styrofoam to save landfill space. And then I had planned to use my own body fluids to put it out, so I could save water too. It was a good plan, but alas, it was wrecked, along with my car and knees. I’ll have to wait till next year I guess. But hey I’ll be laid up for a week to 10 days before physical therapy starts, so I’ll have plenty of free time to post here!!
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Real, I gather that you have been in a car accident. It’s always a bummer, but thankfully, you survived it, albeit with some damage. I’m sorry and will pray for a good recovery. I hope no one else was damaged.
Forget about Mother Earth for now. She will survive both of us, whether we help or not.
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Real,#51- Those darn wrecks sure can interupt a good plan can’t they? I hope it all works out for you without any permanent damage. Don’t despair, though, just postpone it and have the fire as a celebration of your healing. Just don’t breathe the fumes. We will watch the sky for the plume of smoke to know you are OK!
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I told my dear wife when we got married that I thought twelve kids would be about right. She didn’t commit herself then but after four in a little over 10 years she said if I wanted more I’d have to find another wife! I kept her and admitted defeat. Now we have aquired another adult child who is now married. All four of our own are married and we have 5 (almost 6) grandkids. So I guess that makes 15 and growing. I guess I am satisfied.
I really couldn’t say we used anything Scriptural to determine the size of our family but we used it alot while we were rearing them and all are committed Christians. My prayer is that they all stay in the faith and strive to keep their children also in the Lord.
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AJ,
I’m glad you will mend. Cars can be replaced.
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Jon Rowe wrote; “I’m not ‘judging,’ I’m categorizing.”
That’s rich. Let each reader decide.
Jon Rowe wrote; “Is there someone here who wants to defend the proposition that you can reject original sin, the trinity, incarnation, atonement, infallibility of the Bible and still be a ‘Christian’? Are you defending this notion Joel?”
Of course not, Jon. That’s an absurd and irrelevant question. You are making straw men out of the Founders. I question your correctness in categorizing what each one of the Founders themselves believed about each of those classic doctrines. Your very question lumps them into some presumed meld from your own mind as if they all thought the same and at every point in their lives on all those doctrines. People, even Founders, are diverse in their theological thinking and their doctrines evolve. Let God judge.
Re Adams’ statement about “the whole people,” he meant, the “whole people.” Face it, Jon. And no one ever claimed that the whole people were orthodox trinitarian Christians. That’s a red herring. Adam’s point about the “great advantage of the Christian Religion” (that it brings the great Principle of the Law of Nature and Nations…) still stands as stated.
Jon is wrong to state that in praising Christianity, Adams was making it into a “civil religion.” nonsense. He was simply praising Christianity for its benefits as he saw them. He was NOT gutting Christianity of ANY of its classic doctrines.
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I encourage everyone to read my blogs for proof that John Adams did indeed reject original sin, the trinity, incarnation, atonement, infallibility of the Bible as did Jefferson, and Franklin.
The smoking quotations are a little more difficult to find with Washington and Madison. But they are there with Adams.
“The Trinity was carried in a general council by one vote against a quaternity; the Virgin Mary lost an equality with the Father, Son, and Spirit only by a single suffrage.”
– John Adams to Benjamin Rush, June 12, 1812.
And:
“An incarnate God!!! An eternal, self-existent, omnipresent omniscient Author of this stupendous Universe, suffering on a Cross!!! My Soul starts with horror, at the Idea, and it has stupified the Christian World. It has been the Source of almost all of the Corruptions of Christianity.”
– John Adams to John Quincy Adams, March 28, 1816.
“If I understand the Doctrine, it is, that if God the first second or third or all three together are united with or in a Man, the whole Animal becomes a God and his Mother is the Mother of God.
“It grieves me: it shocks me to write in this stile upon a subject the most adorable that any finite Intelligence can contemplate or embrace: but if ever Mankind are to be superior to the Brutes, sacerdotal Impostures must be exposed.”
– John Adams to Francis van der Kemp, October 23, 1816.
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