Comments on: Protesting everything because of anything and accomplishing nothing http://online.worldmag.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/ A forum for discussion of news that arises at the intersection of Christianity and culture. Fri, 19 Mar 2010 23:45:25 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: krm http://online.worldmag.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-296392 krm Sat, 26 Apr 2008 18:14:01 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/#comment-296392 Luke? We do agree on that one, don't we? Luke? We do agree on that one, don’t we?

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]]> By: krm http://online.worldmag.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-295908 krm Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:43:59 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/#comment-295908 I am not entirely clear as to the extent to which COINTELPRO violated statutes (I do not doubt that lines were crossed, I simply do not have a firm grasp of their precise transgressions and how they actually line up against the lines drawn by statute). There is a proper place for some domestic surveilance. There are lines that should not be crossed in conducting it. To such extent that the FBI personnel violated the law, then they should have faced prosecution and appropriate penalties upon conviction - just like any other law breaker. As an honest public servant, I particularly resent the dishonest ones (and I fully support heavier penalties for violations of the public trust rather than merely private misconduct). I should think that view would be one that we share. I am not entirely clear as to the extent to which COINTELPRO violated statutes (I do not doubt that lines were crossed, I simply do not have a firm grasp of their precise transgressions and how they actually line up against the lines drawn by statute).

There is a proper place for some domestic surveilance. There are lines that should not be crossed in conducting it.

To such extent that the FBI personnel violated the law, then they should have faced prosecution and appropriate penalties upon conviction – just like any other law breaker. As an honest public servant, I particularly resent the dishonest ones (and I fully support heavier penalties for violations of the public trust rather than merely private misconduct).

I should think that view would be one that we share.

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]]> By: Luke http://online.worldmag.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-295677 Luke Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:53:13 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/#comment-295677 Actually KRM, I do have a divergent question to ask you that might take this discussion in a new direction. I assume that you think Ayers should have gone to prison, that he possibly should still be in prison. If that is true, should the ring leaders and those responsible for COINTELPRO in the FBI, men like J. Edgar Hoover and Mark Felt, also have gone to jail? Actually KRM,

I do have a divergent question to ask you that might take this discussion in a new direction.

I assume that you think Ayers should have gone to prison, that he possibly should still be in prison.

If that is true, should the ring leaders and those responsible for COINTELPRO in the FBI, men like J. Edgar Hoover and Mark Felt, also have gone to jail?

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]]> By: Luke http://online.worldmag.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-295675 Luke Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:28:21 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/#comment-295675 Well KRM, that is your interpretation. I'm not quite into arguing with you about it, but I'm glad that it at least sounds like you are exposing yourself to direct source material and that's a start. Llama, what kind of logic is far from me? Can you name and tell me it's intellectual tradition? I know you'll go Greek (they all hink there is only one kind) so let me just walk through this syllogism with you. Major A: Ayers opposed the Vietnam war by bombing empty government buildings. Minor B: Auster, who opposed the Vietnam war defacto through a city planning dispute, metaphorically called himself "still crazy." <i>(I suspect STILL is a key word in this construct.)</i> Therefor C: Ayers is <i>still</i> and "terrorist" whom we can only image longs to start bombing things any minute now. Yeah, that's still <b>incredibly stupid</b>. Everything you have said is incredibly stupid. I do wonder what kind of person only says incredibly stupid things. If Aristotle took a page out of the Llama text of logic, Plato would have won. Thanks for KILLING democracy, Llama. Your intellectual prowess is staggering, like the running down a really steep stupid hill kind of staggering. You can go ahead and make another glib joke before fading out of the conversation now. Well KRM, that is your interpretation. I’m not quite into arguing with you about it, but I’m glad that it at least sounds like you are exposing yourself to direct source material and that’s a start.

Llama, what kind of logic is far from me? Can you name and tell me it’s intellectual tradition? I know you’ll go Greek (they all hink there is only one kind) so let me just walk through this syllogism with you.

Major A: Ayers opposed the Vietnam war by bombing empty government buildings.
Minor B: Auster, who opposed the Vietnam war defacto through a city planning dispute, metaphorically called himself “still crazy.” (I suspect STILL is a key word in this construct.)
Therefor C: Ayers is still and “terrorist” whom we can only image longs to start bombing things any minute now.

Yeah, that’s still incredibly stupid. Everything you have said is incredibly stupid. I do wonder what kind of person only says incredibly stupid things.

If Aristotle took a page out of the Llama text of logic, Plato would have won. Thanks for KILLING democracy, Llama. Your intellectual prowess is staggering, like the running down a really steep stupid hill kind of staggering.

You can go ahead and make another glib joke before fading out of the conversation now.

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]]> By: llama http://online.worldmag.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-295649 llama Thu, 24 Apr 2008 02:15:52 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/#comment-295649 Luke, I don't expect you to get llama logic since logic as far from you :-) The reason I think that Ayer's does believe that he didn't bomb enough and is still a terrorist is because I think he must have been a very committed terrorist at one time and was addicted to his extreme left wing socialist ideology. Few have the fortitude to recover from that. Luke,

I don’t expect you to get llama logic since logic as far from you :-)

The reason I think that Ayer’s does believe that he didn’t bomb enough and is still a terrorist is because I think he must have been a very committed terrorist at one time and was addicted to his extreme left wing socialist ideology. Few have the fortitude to recover from that.

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]]> By: krm http://online.worldmag.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-295617 krm Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:20:04 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/#comment-295617 Luke - Ayers dances eloquently around it, without ever actually he was wrong to get into the violence/terror game - he says they didn't do enough! And then he attempts to deflect any focus on his terrorism by invoking the allegation that the US committed worse terror. Distilled down, Ayers says (a) all violence is bad (b) my cohorts and I didn't do enough violence to stop US violence (c) as to the Communists' violence that the US was opposing ... nothing. Effectively, this seems to say that the US is (was) all bad and all violence opposing the US is (was) justified. Luke – Ayers dances eloquently around it, without ever actually he was wrong to get into the violence/terror game – he says they didn’t do enough! And then he attempts to deflect any focus on his terrorism by invoking the allegation that the US committed worse terror.

Distilled down, Ayers says (a) all violence is bad (b) my cohorts and I didn’t do enough violence to stop US violence (c) as to the Communists’ violence that the US was opposing … nothing. Effectively, this seems to say that the US is (was) all bad and all violence opposing the US is (was) justified.

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]]> By: Luke http://online.worldmag.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-295590 Luke Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:47:54 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/#comment-295590 Mmmmmm...so let me try to follow Llama's incredibly articulate and nuanced logical process. <i>We can be assured that Ayers is </i>still<i> a terrorist...because Paul Auster (not Ayers)...wrote a memoir-like essay where he (speaking metaphorically) says he is </i>"still crazy"! Yeah, not so much really. Actually, Llama just comes off sounding like a Pennsylvania voter, because that makes a kind of idiot sense you'd have to been half frozen to death to comprehend. But you know what makes Llama sound even more stupid? Reading the words of Ayers himself: http://tiny.cc/ayers But I know very few of you (most most definitely not Llama) will take the time to read, so I'll just move on. No, NJL, your comments did not offend me. I just used them as a reminder to contribute to discourse in a progressive way, went over to Ayers webpage, and left him a graceful comment of support on his person blog. Mmmmmm…so let me try to follow Llama’s incredibly articulate and nuanced logical process.

We can be assured that Ayers is still a terrorist…because Paul Auster (not Ayers)…wrote a memoir-like essay where he (speaking metaphorically) says he is “still crazy”!

Yeah, not so much really. Actually, Llama just comes off sounding like a Pennsylvania voter, because that makes a kind of idiot sense you’d have to been half frozen to death to comprehend.

But you know what makes Llama sound even more stupid? Reading the words of Ayers himself:
http://tiny.cc/ayers

But I know very few of you (most most definitely not Llama) will take the time to read, so I’ll just move on.

No, NJL, your comments did not offend me. I just used them as a reminder to contribute to discourse in a progressive way, went over to Ayers webpage, and left him a graceful comment of support on his person blog.

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]]> By: llama http://online.worldmag.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-295588 llama Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:31:09 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/#comment-295588 #5 NJlawyer, My thoughts exactly. We can now be be assured that Ayers is still an anti American terrorists who really does think he should have bombed more. Really, giving up being a terrorist is one of the hardest things in the world to accomplish - because it takes so much commitment and insanity to be that crazy in the first place. #5 NJlawyer,

My thoughts exactly. We can now be be assured that Ayers is still an anti American terrorists who really does think he should have bombed more.

Really, giving up being a terrorist is one of the hardest things in the world to accomplish – because it takes so much commitment and insanity to be that crazy in the first place.

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]]> By: Luke http://online.worldmag.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-295581 Luke Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:16:12 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/#comment-295581 Although I'm not sure why he is selling their movement short. He's right, they didn't stop the Vietnam war. They did, however, scrap a completely racist bit of city planning and that isn't nothing. It's an example of the effect large unifying movements like the anti-war effort have on the public consciousness and micro battles are won on small scales. Without the anger that the Vietnam war inspired the culture of protest that advanced civil rights, women's rights, human rights, gay rights etc etc etc would have either not existed or would have been slower to start and less concentrated. So the "accomplish nothing" part of Harrison's title is also dishonest. Although I’m not sure why he is selling their movement short. He’s right, they didn’t stop the Vietnam war. They did, however, scrap a completely racist bit of city planning and that isn’t nothing. It’s an example of the effect large unifying movements like the anti-war effort have on the public consciousness and micro battles are won on small scales. Without the anger that the Vietnam war inspired the culture of protest that advanced civil rights, women’s rights, human rights, gay rights etc etc etc would have either not existed or would have been slower to start and less concentrated. So the “accomplish nothing” part of Harrison’s title is also dishonest.

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]]> By: Frank in Phoenix http://online.worldmag.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-295559 Frank in Phoenix Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:12:03 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/23/protesting-everything-because-of-anything-and-accomplishing-nothing/#comment-295559 What Luke said. What Luke said.

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