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Whirled Views 4.24
Morning!
Today’s quote is from a columnist: “If I were asked to give what I consider the single most useful bit of advice for all humanity, it would be this: Expect trouble as an inevitable part of life, and when it comes, hold your head high. Look it squarely in the eye, and say, ‘I will be bigger than you. You cannot defeat me.’”
Topic: Watercooler Chatter, WorldMagBlog
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Ann Landers – Who also said: “Class has a sense of humor. It knows that a good laugh is the best lubricant for oiling the machinery of human relations. Class never makes excuses. It takes its lumps and learns from past mistakes. Class bespeaks an aristocracy unrelated to ancestors or money. Some extremely wealthy people have no class at all, while others who are struggling to make ends meet are loaded with it. Class is real. You can’t fake it. Class never tries to build itself up by tearing others down. Class is already up and need not attempt to look better by making others look worse. Everyone is comfortable with the person who has class because he is comfortable with himself. If you have class, you’ve got it made. If you don’t have class, no matter what else you have, it won’t make up for it.”
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So last night I was reading that now there evidence that links the phonecall from the abused 16 year old at the YFZ compound to a woman who is in the habit of making such calls fraudulently. I wonder what that will do in the case now? I’m not saying the FLDS is right, but, this is scary for the rest of us.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24276256/
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I don’t know how scary it is for the rest of us at all. Most of us don’t live in a gated compound without birth records, passing children and wives around to new husbands and fathers. Most of us have some kind of reputation in the community and contact with it. There have always been false reports. I know people who have gotten them. They have had social services come in. It was unpleasant and scary. In those cases it became evident that someone was falsely accusing. I’m sure there are other cases where justice was not done. False accusations are certainly not new to anyone that deals in these types of situations.
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I don’t think the CPS finding 20 pregnant underage girls is going to help the FLDS.
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Yes, but doesn’t the whole premise for which they went in and searched the compound fall apart on this new finding? If the premise was fraudulent, are they not worried that this whole case will be thrown out? Or does that genie not go back in the bottle once they have found the 20 underage pregnant girls.
How safe its the rest of the country if law enforcement can search and sieze on a bogus premise and while there find someting with which to convict?
I think the woman who called this in did more harm than good.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t condone anything about the FLDS, but I think law enforcement needs to dot all of its i’s and cross all of its t’s in this case, because the guilty are going to get off on appeal if this case even makes it that far.
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How about Florida allowing a specialty plate: “I Believe” with a cross on it.
The ACLU says this shows Florida is endorsing Christianity and sends the message that Florida is a Christian state. Apparently, there are about a hundred specialty plates saying all sorts of things. Doesn’t this really say that the purchaser of the plate is a Christian, just as a plate that says “I love my particular sports team” shows the person to be a fan of that team? It certainly doesn’t say the state is choosing a favorite team if different teams are represented.
Just another court case. I hope the people who want the plate win this one.
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But it’s bothering me they’re separating toddlers from their mothers. I nursed my children longer than a year, mostly for comfort of course, but you’re doing an awful lot of trauma to a lot of children for reasons that don’t look real necesary to me.
What if a woman wants to leave–but you’ve snatched her children away. Who really is running this awful show for the government? And can Texas really have that much room in their social services to somehow make room for over 400 children are once?
I don’t approve of polygamy, but couldn’t they come up with a way to keep mothrs and children together? What good is this doing society to split them up?
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Samuel–you’ve earned yourself a virtual coffee! Put in your order.
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“If the premise was fraudulent, are they not worried that this whole case will be thrown out? ”
Not if the police were acting in good faith on information that they could not have known or suspected to be fraudulent at the time. Only if there were reasons to suspect the information, no corroboration, and rudimentary investigation would have revealed that the informant was not credible, could the police not claim a good faith exception to the exclusionary rule.
Then again, not all judges are as competent at understanding and applying the law as they should be, and there should be some concern and room for legal maneuvering.
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A question for our blogmeisters: I’m curious what’s going on with the Top 25 Posts.
I don’t usually click on them, figuring that once a post goes beyond 500 responses there’s nothing I could ever say that hasn’t been said many times already, and just trying to read it all for purposes of edification is exhausting. But today I got curious.
Numero Uno is the famous Creationism: Anti-Science, Anti-Human Rights post with (count ‘em!) 918 responses. Number 23 is Gay Wizard, with 157, and about half way between them is Bella, with … 5, only 2 of which you can read. Places 24 and 25 are held by Sad State at 16 comments, and Head v. Heart at 10.
Is something broken?
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RR- that list has been the topic of other discussions, and has not changed in months. I sometimes scroll down to the “Most Recent” threads to find comments on threads not on the recent list on the main page.
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(Stupid stupid Wordpress! Always logging me out at the worst possible moment! I hate it!
)
Hi homies!
Just wondering how the job thing went for Joe B?
And how Kim is getting along with Little Missy?
And the rest of ya?
I’m good. I’m just having to work in the shop today because I’ve got a machine acting up, and I’m giving it an attitude adjustment.
Chat ya later…
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Yall hear about the burglar who was captured by a blind man. Oh, fergot to mention: the blind dude was a former wrestler. Fought his intruder for about 30 minutes til he, the blind dude, secured a kitchen knife. The would-be burglar (according to Lauer on the Today show) actually said “I’ll dial 911 if you promise not to kill me”
I have been on the mat for army combatives drills and after about 2 minutes you are exhausted. 30 minutes close combat is unimaginable
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Changing the subject to politics:
Here is a heads up about McCain’s VP selection process. He’s in LA today talking with Gov. Jindal (and the Gov is on Leno tonite). Anyways, for all your Republicans out there, here’s how Marc Ambinder put it at The Atlantic.
I knew you’d be interested
.
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When my daughter’s boyfriend comes to pick her up from our house, he stays in the car & beeps the horn.
I told my daughter that this is considered quite rude.
She says maybe it was rude in the 50’s, but it’s not considered rude anymore.
Younger people – Do you consider this rude or not? (And could you give your age or approx. age, please?)
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Karen – 15
No one would even consider honking a horn where we live to get the attention of those inside the house. There are teen’s and college age on our street, their dates park their cars and go to the door.
We had one person who I believe was a woman, honking the horn for her friend a few months ago. No one was happy about it, ….. if it had continued the police would have been called. We live in an area where people are not allowed to use power tools, or power lawn mowers, gardener’s after 7PM or on Sunday. The homeowners association does not allow garages to be packed so that a car cannot be parked within the garage.
The age of adults here is between 30’s to whatever. When anyone purchases a home here they must sign a statement to abide by the rules of the Homeowners Association, and we ALL DO. That goes for trees being trimmed, palm trees taken care of twice a year, etc.
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I’m not a younger person (47) But IMHO yes, it is rude. It’s also rude for her date not to have the courtesy to come to the door and at least say hello to her parents and tell her parents where they’re going and with whom and when he expects to have her back. I wasn’t around in the 50’s, so I wouldn’t know about then.
As a minimun, it was definitely rude at my house regardless of what the current social conventions were.
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Karen,
Since a big part of politeness is how others are affected, if it’s rude to her mother, then it’s rude. (That doesn’t mean that any of us should sit around expecting others to perform exactly to our expectations. But if something has historically been considered rude, and still is considered rude by one of the parties involved, then yes, it’s rude.)
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Llama,
Since you may not go back to yesterday’s thread (and I might miss it if you did), I’ll repeat my answer here:
Llama, I wasn’t at all addressing the issue of whether most people COULD pay off their homes, just whether it was wise to keep paying a mortgage payment when one doesn’t have to. Your strategy works for you, so bravo. I myself wouldn’t do it, wouldn’t advise it. I want the security of knowing my home is mine. I don’t think deliberate debt (even if one has the money to pay it off) is wise, and I’d argue that it may even violate Scripture, where we are told to avoid debt.
In fact, most people I know have the opposite problem–they’re still in mortgage debt (and other forms of debt) well into their fifties.
I have no choice but to have a mortgage now. But I expect to have it paid off by the time I’m 50 (I’m on track for 48 or 49, but am hoping to make it earlier). After that, my costs will go WAY down, and I can save more. If Social Security would return all the money I’ve paid through the years, I could pay off my home NOW, have enough left over for a good used car (mine is 14), and in ten years, saving only the money I’m currently paying in mortgage and Social Security, I’d have the equivalent of four years’ income–more if I invested it well.
I have no desire to “get rich.” But my strategy of living within my means and avoiding debt should still allow me plenty of surplus in my later years. For me personally, I don’t want to risk my home on an investment, and I think it would be unwise for most people to do so. I don’t care whether a home is “liquid.” I haven’t bought it as an investment. I bought it to live in. My car isn’t an investment either; I bought it to drive, and knew when I bought it that it would depreciate. Thus, in buying homes and cars, I buy reasonably within my means, not extravagantly.
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P.S. And from the “Convenient Truth” thread, and then I’m finished:
Well, Llama, historically most people who got rich in America in the 20th century did so through real estate. (I personally know two people in that boat–one with rental houses, one with land. [One is immediate family, one an in-law to a family member.]) It may not work for you, and it isn’t my cup of tea, but that sure doesn’t mean it doesn’t work.
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Klasko, I haven’t read the actual warrant, but if it was prepared and executed in good faith — after all, a judge had to sign off on it — there should be no problem. From what I’ve read/heard about the CPS, the fact that they have found the 20 pregnant girls is proof of abuse and they have the “right” to continue with what they’re doing. I’m no expert on Texas law.
With resect to horn honking, it’s rude. It was rude in the 50s, 60s and 70s. It was the kiss of death as far as my father was concerned. One would think that a young lady would want to see if the young man would make the effort to get out of his car. I think it’s a sign of respect for the girl he’s taking out.
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Re: honking- As I told my children, if someone is picking you up, stand by the window and watch. When they come, go on out or have them come to the door. There are some cities (NYC for one) where it is against the law to use the horn except in emergencies.
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Peter, don’t you want to meet their date or friends, we sure do
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My mother honks her horn when she comes to pick me up.
But she is 71 yrs. old, & has to lug an oxygen tank around with her when she goes out.
She’s allowed to honk if she wants to.
Klasko – Not only do we have the same first name, we’re the same age, too. (My middle name is Elizabeth.)
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Admittedly, in the ’40’s. But if I went to a girl’s house and honked the horn, her daddy would have come out to see what the commotion was. I didn’t want that.
Many years later. My son had three daughters. He always insisted that the guy come in to get his date. Chuck wanted to see who it was, every time. There’s logic behind that. Sometimes a “steady” got a pass. But I still don’t think they honked.
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#22 Horns only for emergencies in NYC? Lots of scoffers there, no?
Here dates don’t use horns, they use cell phones.
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Horns- I agree with all the nays. Reminded me of the film “Waitress” from last year, I think. Worth a rental, though it is PG-13.
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#15 Karen O.
My daughter is not allowed to met a boyfriend anywhere for any reason which includes going outside to him waiting in his car.
Her date will come inside to pick her up and answer any questions my wife and I might have and to properly receive any instructions we might want to send his way.
This is rule never to be broken for all kinds of reasons the least of which is so the idiot my daughter is going out with doesn’t appear to be rude, lazy and more stupid than I thought.
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Cell phones? Honking? No.
Our son took our friend’s daughter to the prom. When he went to pick her up, Dad had his gun in full sight. No threats there.
In college he went to the home of a girl he was dating and her little brother met him at the door with a sword.
He didn’t marry either on of those girls!
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Honking is rude. Don’t have a daughter, but if I did, the honking young man would meet this 47 year old dad in short order….
I never did honk the horn for my dates, but went and knocked on the door. Of course my girlfriend’s father weren’t usually in a position to check me out anyway…. (My first real girlfriend’s father had divorced her mom many moons before I came around, and my wife was 29 when we met.)
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# 25: If I were going to be mean, I might respond to Chas by asking if that horn would have been on his bicycle, since I figure they didn’t have cars way back then…
Just kidding! That was fer hittin’ on me wifey!
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TJ, you are partly correct. In those days kids didn’t have cars. We had to wheel & deal for the use of the car. Otherwise, we met at the game or went by bus. My dad was pretty good. Lots of going in pairs too. My friend, KB, almost always had a car.
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OK, maybe I wasn’t mean enough! I should have said, “I didn’t know they put horns on horses back then.”
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It’s ok, though, Chas. I lived so far out of the way in rural Georgia that they could even pump sunshine to our house. We would have gotten it delivered by UPS, except UPS won’t even deliver to those nether regions of the world, unless it is on bicycle or horseback.
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“could” should be “couldn’t”
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RE: Honking. I’m 46. Sons are 19, 18, and 13.
For the guy, honking shows laziness and disrespect to the girl, her parents, and the neighbors. Not to mention the dogs, who go crazy at the thought of a car honking in the driveway.
For the girl, responding to a horn in the driveway is an unmistakable sign of subservience.
For the girl’s parents, allowing her to run out to the honking car is a sign of indifference or fear.
Make him come in the house. Every time. One of these boys may wind up being your son-in-law. You want to know him well before he proposes.
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Stubob, ….. “Make him come in the house. Every time. One of these boys may wind up being your son-in-law. You want to know him well before he proposes.”
That’s the truth. I can’t imagine my husband allowing a honking car in the drive-way, he would go outside and invite the ‘honker’ to come in, then offer him a soft drink, then spend 10 minutes in a friedly conversation which would give the ‘honker’ an idea of how we live and what we expect, but never mentioning the ‘honking’-
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Little Missy was at Mr. Mgrs house last night planning his surprise bithday party with his girlfriend who is now her friend.
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EXPELLED Producers to Yoko Ono: Let It Be
(Dallas, TX) – A new front has been opened in the culture wars. Ben Stein’s EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed stunned detractors by opening as the nation’s #10 movie last weekend. Out for less than one week, it has already become one of the top 25 documentaries of all time.
Opponents of the film have attacked everyone and everything in it. They have attacked the producers, the star, the music, and film itself. They have even attacked those who have seen it. Now they want to change the Constitution.
Yoko Ono and others have now filed lawsuits challenging the film’s use and critique of John Lennon’s song Imagine. One of the suits seeks to ban free speech through preliminary injunctive relief which essentially means that they are trying to expel EXPELLED as it is now being shown in theaters.
“If you really listen to the lyrics of Imagine then you realize that it represents everything that the Neo-Darwinists want. ‘Imagine there’s no Heaven…No hell below us…Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too…’ That’s exactly what the Darwinist establishment wants to do: get rid of religion. And that’s what we point out when we play less than 15 seconds of the song and show some of the lyrics on screen,” said Walt Ruloff Executive Producer and CEO of Premise Media.
Executive Producer and Chairman of Premise Media Logan Craft explained, “The fair use doctrine is a well established principle that gives the public the right to freely use portions of copyrighted materials for the purposes of commentary and criticism. While some may not like what we have to say or how we say it, we have the free speech right to do so – just as other political and social commentators have been doing for years.”
Premise did not pursue a license for the song and had no obligation to do so. Unbiased viewers of the film will see that the Imagine clip was used as part of a social commentary in the exercise of free speech. The brief clip – consisting of a mere 10 words – was used to contrast the messages in the documentary and was not used as an endorsement of EXPELLED.
But the irony of this lawsuit was not lost on the film’s star Ben Stein, “So Yoko Ono is suing over the brief Constitutionally protected use of a song that wants us to ‘Imagine no possessions’? Maybe instead of wasting everyone’s time trying to silence a documentary she should give the song to the world for free? After all, ‘imagine all the people sharing all the world…You may say I’m a dreamer But I’m not the only one I hope someday you’ll join us And the World can live as one.’”
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Outkast
First of all I’m glad to see you posting again, we missed you.
Your post is very thought provoking.
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lol, Ben Stein’s comment is priceless.
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Victoria- I guess I should have said that they were expecting someone we already knew to pick them up. We never let them go out with someone we hadn’t met before.
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#39: Thanks for that post, Outkast. Quite ironic, indeed!
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Peter, I glad you cleared that up. I was getting your ‘pink flip-flops’ ready to put in the mail.
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Horn honking. My friends Dad always called it “the Italian doorbell”.
Not very PC, but funny (in a Don Rickles way).
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Re: #39
O no!
OK.
Oy, liven-up, un-evil Yoko Ono.
That’s a palindrome by the way.
(showing off)
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I guess I should mention that my daughter’s boyfriend is the one she’s living with. He’ll pick her up at our house when she’s come over to do laundry or stopped by for a visit.
We did insist on meeting him when they were “just” dating. Considering that they’re living together now – fat lot of good that did.
I try to tell myself that the boy, er…young man, didn’t have his father around to teach him any better. But I hate to see my usually-very-independent daughter dash out the door when he honks.
We realize, though, that we need to be careful about how we talk about him. If we point out his faults to her, she’ll be so busy trying to defend him that she won’t be able to acknowledge those faults to herself. We have to sit back, let the Holy Spirit work, & let her see him clearly without interference.
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Karen, you’ve changed the parameters of the discussion. It now has nothing to do with manners. I still disagree about honking the horn, but if she’s waiting for him, there is no special need for him to come to the door. My granddaughters would phone, “I’m here”.
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I guess you’ve got a point there, Chas, but I still think it’s rude. If my husband ever had to pick me up from my parents’ house for some reason, he would come in for me, say hi, & maybe chat for a few minutes if we had the time.
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Thanks Victoria. Between married life and my expanded photojournalism career I can’t be around as often as before, but I try.
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Hi Outkast. I figured married life & the new family was keeping ya busy. Nice to see a comment from you here & there.
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Karen O – My middle name is Louise. After nobody in particular. I always hated it. Elizabeth is much nicer.
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#16 Victoria
What happened to the right to property? Rules like that are worse than living in an apartment subject to your landlord’s rules.
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Well, from a copyright standpoint, they might have a point. When I’m editing a book, I always tell an author they can’t use even one line of a poem or song without getting permission, because that’s too big a portion of a short work. That’w what I have been told. So I’d “imagine” that showing the artist actually performing it might be even more problematic than having it appear in print.
I think that’s too restrictive and that fair use ought to allow a bit more, but copyright law is very tightly construed these days. I had to rewrite portions of my last book to avoid giving some summary of plots of other books–which to me isn’t anywhere close to copyright infringement, especially since I was very careful to avoid spoliers.
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Oops, “spoilers.”
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Karen,
I’m 30, and I was raised that boys would come to the door to get me. They probably didn’t do enough to supervise the situation, but at least they taught me to date boys who respected me (and them, by extension). I would raise my children the same way.
Klasko,
My childhood middle name was Louise.
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HRW
Regarding my post 16
YOU WRITE:….
“What happened to the right to property? Rules like that are worse than living in an apartment subject to your landlord’s rules.”
We love the rules, and so does everyone else. After all we all signed the Association rules, before we bought our home. No one has to live in this residential community if they don’t like rules, or if they prefer annoying others, they can move elsewhere.
It’s a beautiful place to live with palm tree’s all the different gardens, some people have koi ponds in their inner gardens, with lovely plants, etc. and some have pools in the back garden. Everyone is expected to respect others rights. Excessive noise just to make noise is immature. Children playing, parties, are all part of life, which everyone here agrees is a wonderful thing. Most of the kids have skate boards, basket ball courts, and all the other stuff kids do which make noise, no one cares or pays attention, however we don’t make noise which can be avoided.
Many people have parties, gatherings and all sorts of events, but always thoughtful of their neighbors, its the American way.
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Klasko thinks she’s a tad on the “older side” at 47. (post 17)
My dear sister……I also am a mere 47 and still going uphill. Do not let age get in the way of proper etiquette. I remember something my mom told me when I was still in high school: good morals never go out of style.
Oh, and as for the honking to let a young lass know your there; get your laziness out of the car and greet the family!!
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Oh…………and just so you all will know where I’m coming from, Ben Stein is Da Man!
My most bodacious wife, Helen, and I saw Expelled with our pastor. Say what you want about Mr. Stein……He’s right!
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.
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Justus331 – I guess I don’t think of myself as being younger because I already have an empty nest! But I suppose that I am a very young empty nester!
Cameron – I did not mean to offend with the name. I just never though it fit me.
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Klasko,
Have no fear–you’ll notice I said it was my childhood middle name–I took my mother’s maiden name in its place upon marriage for the same reason–it didn’t fit me, whereas Cameron does.
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HRW, there’s this thing called contract law! No one forced Victoria to buy in a planned unit development. People who do agree to live under the rules.
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NJL
Most of the new homes, and those 18 years or older, no matter the price have Home Owners Associations where we live. It works well, because homeowners keep their homes, lawns, etc looking very nice.
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And I purposely bought a home too old to be under homeowners association rules! I keep things looking fairly neat, but if I don’t mow immediately because I’m sick or we’ve had too much rain, I don’t worry about it. (My mower is heavier than others, apparently, and makes deep ruts even two days after a heavy rain. So frequently everyone else on the street mows on a one-day break between rainstorms, and I can’t, but have to wait for a longer break.) And I can mow at dusk if I want to without worrying that it’s too late. Several yards on the street have grass that’s far too long right now, probably a combination of spring hitting late but quickly and the home owners’ family issues. (One house just got auctioned, another is owned by an old lady, and I have neighbors who travel a lot and are too cheap to pay someone to mow it while they’re gone–don’t tell them I said that!) But we don’t have rusting cars or anything like that, and I can deal with someone else’s grass being too long much better than I (personally) could deal with paying a monthly fee for someone else to tell me I have to mow my lawn by tomorrow or else. The lawns on the street are longer than I’ve ever seen them, but it simply doesn’t affect me. (Now, the people who let their dogs or cats run loose–THAT affects me.)
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Hi Cheryl,
Many people here have their gardners cut their lawn’s every other week, no big deal. We have ours cut every week, however we don’t like our lawn cut short, so its very lush and longer, many people like it that way, so its become a popular look.
Some parts of the country have much more rain than we here in California have, so I’m sure that is a consideration for there area.
We have very strict leash laws.
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— gardeners not “gardners” ….. I certainly don’t want one of Cheryl’s spelling classes.
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“their” area…
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OK Cameron. TJ let you out of your cage earlier this week, now I now why you don’t get out very often. You do remember the BONG? Poor TJ.
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Victoria – To many of us, the thought of having a gardener, or any other paid help, is unimaginable. My husband would love to be able to pay someone to deal with the leaves each fall.
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Karen, we are indeed fortunate. I should never have shared any, or at least this part of my personal life. I’m sorry if this offended you or anyone else on the blog.
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I’m not offended by your being blessed with a gardener.
It’s nice to know a little bit about each other. The mix of living situations & backgrounds represented here on WMB is interesting.
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