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My B.A. is defective
Marty Nemko, “education consultant to 15 college presidents,” says that the most overrated product in America is the bachelor’s degree. He starts with a startling statistic: “Among high-school students who graduated in the bottom 40 percent of their classes, and whose first institutions were four-year colleges, two-thirds had not earned diplomas eight and a half years later.”
Even worse, most of those college dropouts leave the campus having learned little of value, and with a mountain of debt and devastated self-esteem from their unsuccessful struggles. Perhaps worst of all, even those who do manage to graduate too rarely end up in careers that require a college education. So it’s not surprising that when you hop into a cab or walk into a restaurant, you’re likely to meet workers who spent years and their family’s life savings on college, only to end up with a job they could have done as a high-school dropout.
I could keep on quoting the whole essay. In summa, he reminds us that, according the ACT test results, only 23 percent of graduating high school students last year were actually prepared for college. You can bet more than 23 percent got in, though. Nemko argues that colleges don’t really teach much worth knowing, at least not for the time and money spent there. He ends with this:
[Y]ear after year, colleges and universities turn out millions of defective products: students who drop out or graduate with far too little benefit for the time and money spent. Not only do colleges escape punishment, but they are rewarded with taxpayer-financed student grants and loans, which allow them to raise their tuitions even more.
Amen, brother. I love college. Higher education made me who I am. I’ve attended four universities. I have three degrees. I’ve been employed by six. And I can tell you, the system is broken. The idea of college is the closest thing to paradise on earth, but it’s got something rotten in it that needs fixing. Read the rest of Nemko’s essay here, where he offers some solutions to hold colleges more accountable to parents and students. Wonderful.
back to top58 Comments to “My B.A. is defective”
Glad to see more posts saying what I’ve been saying all along! Keep up the good work! Smell the rat.
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Extra testing doesn’t sound like a particularly good idea … we have plenty of tests already that tell us absolutely nothing.
Really, over half the problem with collegesis students who want to party, not work, and professors catering to liberal trends.
Certainly the author is right to say that too many people go to college who shouldn’t go and would be better off elsewhere. I went to a solid Christian university with a quality education, and there were still people there who just needed to go out, get a good job, and grow up.
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Seems like there should be more emphasis on some good trade schools, and even more practical classes in high school, like shop, auto mechanics, etc. Not everyone is cut out for college. Besides, colleges have just become indoctrination centers for far left politics.
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I was 32 before my Bachelor degree got me a job.
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Kimberly,
College is a great place to “grow up”. It starts to happen right after the family cuts off the funds. Now, if the government would do the same, kids could grow up sooner!
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Hear, hear, RRBAR!
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I don’t remember where I read it, but in a similar vein the argument was made that BA’s are being used by employeers to establish a baseline, since there are so many things an employeer can’t do to determine if the candidate is a good fit they use the presence of higher education, even though it is often unnecessary.
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The army regularly takes in desperate young folks who learn late in life that the costly fluff bachelor’s degree has little real-world job value. Sadly, even the lighter subjects with minimal earnings potential charge the same outrageous tuition rates as do the better subject majors (ie those with better vocational heft behind them!)
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If you want to grow up – join the military. Colleges are broken just like government is broken. We pay way too much and we get way too little for it. Government and colleges are being run by con artists and flim flam men folks that are out of control and if you mention this fact they claim it all our fault. On that I agree with them.
The reason these people act the way they do, as do our ignorant kids, is that we let them get away with it and could care less how badly we get ripped off. So we get exactly what we want and we must like it.
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My college graduate son tried for 2 years to get a job that would have put his BA to good use, and the best he could get in our area (Northern VA) was somehting he could have gotten in high school and noting that pays a living wage. BAs are a dime a dozen anymore and now they want to see a Master’s. My son is currently attending grad school while living with (and helping to take care of) his elderly grandparents.
The hope is that the Master’s will give him an educational edge for a better job.
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My little brother had this experience–he chose not to attend college, and has been a diligent and well-paid worker in several fields. He was assistant manager at a Taco Bell in Arkansas–low cost of living–and making as much money as I was editing–with my degree–in high-cost-of-living Chicago! He now drives for UPS and is building his own house, over a period of a couple years, in order to build it debt-free (1,800-square-foot brick home with a two-car garage–he spent a few years working weekends with Habitat for Humanity to learn the needed skills).
My experience, however, was exactly in line with what I wanted from college, and I’d readily say those were among the best years of my life. But I was 22 when I went, so I knew what I wanted and was prepared to work for it. I finished my degree at one college, in four years, without changing majors, graduating without debt (I put myself through). I edited the yearbook for three years, interned at a publisher my final semester, and stepped into a full-time editing job two days after graduation. (And yes, it’s a field that requires college; many editors have higher degrees, though I’ve chosen not to.) I also learned a great deal, academically and socially both, and wouldn’t trade those four years for anything.
The basic question is what do you really want to do (and why? “because they make good money” isn’t a good answer) and are you gifted to follow that interest? (If you’re male, I’d say the vocation must provide means to support a family.) Then and only then can a person decide whether, and how, college fits into the picture.
I’m fairly sure that a person who attends college with a specific desire to learn will learn, or he can transfer to another college if he cannot. If all he needs is a course or two, then those can be taken part time. It’s probably a good idea for parents to expect children to pay at least a good portion of their own expenses, as they are far more likely to benefit from the education.
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What I find interesting here is the continuing resonance of “BA”.
When I went for an undergraduate degree, I also had a plan in place of what I wanted to do with the degree when I was done. This has been the case for all three of the degrees I have earned.
I can make the following observation: getting my last graduate degree placed me about $50K behind in aggregate expenses and lost opportunity.
I had made this up in the first five years after my final graduate program.
The issue is not going to college. I suggest the issue is understanding why you are going to college.
And for those who argue trade work, I might only note that the U.S. is no longer a manufacturing economy in the main. It is a knowledge based economy. So what knowledge will you have when you are done with college, would seem the appropriate question.
And yes a good English major probably will be able to say: “Do you want fires with that” better than a non-college educated worker.
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Cheryl – that’s why there aren’t many male teachers. My husband doesn’t make enough to support his family as a middle/high school teacher. Sad, isn’t it? He has friends working road construction with no degree and making much more than he does.
I use my bachelor’s degree at my job, and have been using it since I got out of school. I have much more credibility with it, than I would without it. And most places won’t hire you without one. What can you do?
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Not only do colleges escape punishment, but they are rewarded with taxpayer-financed student grants and loans, which allow them to raise their tuitions even more.
This seems to be an astute observation, in my limited experience. I worked briefly as an adjunct instructor for a small private college several years ago. It eventually became obvious that the school was admitting students who were not really up to snuff (at least in mathematics, which is what I taught), and it seemed as if a racket of sorts was going on: admitting unqualified students, having them apply for federal tuition aid (big bucks in some cases), having them languish for a term or two, then watching them drop out while the school pocketed the federal money accumulated in the process.
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TJ post 14,
actually it was my understanding that certain post-high school educational institutions were indeed misusing the government gravy train here.
But then I ask the following: does this mean that all colleges and universites are being dishonest here?
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For me, college was a place to grow up and to get a B.A. listed on my resume. I can’t say that I learned too much in my classes that I still remember 5 years later. Oh well, it was totally worth the money. I made a lot of memories and made a lot of friends. I walked away much wiser and much more ready for the “real” world.
…oh, and I met my wife there. That should have been at the top of the list.
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Musing,
I would argue that any institution that accepts a student that doesn’t have a reasonable chance of success (one that needs remedial classes, for example) is dishonest.
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Musing, it is an interesting question. I can only comment about one case in which I have experience. I have noticed, though, that many colleges/universities do seem to “push” the federal assistance. And federal assistance is one of the primary reasons that many private schools seek government accreditation, I believe.
Having said all that, no, I don’t think all colleges and universities are being dishonest. I would even be willing to give the benefit of the doubt and say that the number doing so is probably in the minority.
There are other things that probably need to be considered here as well. How many schools (maybe just private ones) are sitting on mounds and mounds of privately donated money (endowments and the like) and yet still insist of getting on the government gravy train, as you called it (nice turn of phrase, btw!)? It does seem to be a mess, but it’s not like there’s not a shortage of folks lining up, either.
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cameron post 17,
but how do we know that the student has a reasonable chance of success?
Further, there are various competitive schooling environment where it is stated up front that there will be high attrition.
Based on your model we wold seem to have the requirement that if you admit someone, then you must graduate them!
What happens then to individual responsiblity?
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Musing,
Most schools I’m aware of use a formula comprised of standardized test scores, high school transcripts, personal interviews, recommendations, etc. I worked briefly in tandem with my college’s acceptance office and saw the formula in action–good grades could offset lower test scores, a personal interview could explain why some grades were low (a personal illness, for example), and so on.
I don’t care what the attrition or graduation rate is if we’re not talking about schools taking federal (or state, for that matter) money to subsidize them. If we are, then the schools (and the government) need to be good stewards of that money and offer it to those who qualify.
Schools can accept whomever they choose, but I shouldn’t have to pay for the ones that aren’t going to make it.
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What happens then to individual responsibility?
Musing, I would add that you are correct, of course, about individual responsibility. But the admin depts of colleges and universities are also made up of individuals, and they should bear some responsibility themselves not to give out false hope and chase the government gravy train (man, I love that phrase!) just because it swings through town.
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cameron post 20,
but how do we know who wont make it?
SAT scores are about 20% predictive last I checked.
Grades in my high school had little correlation with grades in my college (college was a lot tougher).
So what is the magic to tell?
Now last I checked, most loans are offerred to students not colleges. So my sense is that the government shold not provide educational assistance to an individual unless that individual can demonstrate to the Federal government that they will succeeed?
Hmm, I think we are in a loop here.
We have a different discussion on two issues:
1) state universities and colleges
2) tax exempt status of universities
But it is my understanding that the student subsidies go to the stuudents and it would seem that it is the responsiblity of the students to be good stewards of this money.
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Cheryl (11): The basic question is what do you really want to do … and are you gifted to follow that interest? …Then and only then can a person decide whether, and how, college fits into the picture.
eggZACKly!!!
The saying is, “Choose your major, choose your college.”
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stubob post 23,
I sense we are in full agreement on this point!!!
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Well, then, I may be wrong
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As far as predicting the success of future students:
My husband was told by his college advisor at the first meeting that he could just forget about medical school because he didn’t have the grades or the SAT score needed. He then spent the next four years doing increasingly better academically and breaking the curve in lots of classes. He made it into medical school, did average there, and is enjoying his 20th year of being a doctor – at least mostly. And I regularly hear from his patients who really like him.
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My husband was told to forget college – by his high school guidance counselor! He didn’t have bad grades – in fact they were pretty good. He was athletic, and played a different sport every season. But, evidently (maybe because of his family), the counselor told him to forget it. He graduated and is thoroughly enjoying his work as a middle/high school teacher. And his school is better because he is there. So much for the guidance counselor.
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Really, over half the problem with collegesis students who want to party, not work
I can’t help thinking of that famous pose from Animal House of John Belushi with his sweatshirt that said “College.”
The post said “enlightenment.” Well, part of college is also the “experience” of going to college.
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Perhaps I’m only saying this because I have three graduate degrees and am a full time college professor; but I think there is something salutary about simply getting educated.
I remember reading an interesting article by Gary North (and keep in mind I find his Christian Reconstructionism insane) where he aptly noted if you really wanted to learn what even the best, most expensive colleges have to teach — getting the knowlegde without the degree — you can do so almost for free.
He recalled that scene from Good Will Hunting where Matt Damon bested a Harvard Grad. Student in an intellectual debate and noted it cost him 50 cents to learn the material: The cost of a library card to the Boston Public Library. If you go onto Princeton’s website you see their politics dept. (among others) has posted its reading list and you can download their syllabi online. Many colleges tape entire semester class lectures and post them online for the public to view for free.
I constantly attend lectures free to the public by Princeton Univeristy, usually Robbie George’s James Madison Program, where the rooms are about 1/2 full and you hear leading intellectuals share their theories and sell their books (which new cost on average $25). These are the same ideas students pay thousands of dollar for, with the difference being they have to do graded work and get college credit and degrees. Think of all of the students who paid thousands of dollars to study under Allan Bloom and Leo Strauss. And you can go to any used bookstore and buy Natural Right and History or The Closing of the American Mind for less than $5.00 each.
Some of these professors are even willing to give you feedback. If you read their books and have insightful questions, many will engage you.
But how many people are so interested or motivated in such self study?
Personally, I know as much about religion and the Founding as many historians with PhDs in the subject, most of it I didn’t learn in college or grad. school; though a few contitutional law courses in law school excepting.
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I should have added to this passage:
Some of these professors are even willing to give you feedback. If you read their books and have insightful questions, many will engage you.
And are one click away by email.
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Good advice, Jon. I have only two post-grad degrees, but I am currently working on the third, so I should catch up with you soon.
One thing I would add for the bloggers interested in theological classes. Two excellent conservative schools, Covenant Seminary and Reformed Theological Seminary, have posted several of their classes online (along with reading lists and syllabi as you mentioned). The mp3s are free for download. RTS’s are only via ITunes, but that’s only a minor nuisance.
http://www.covenantseminary.edu/worldwide/
http://itunes.rts.edu/
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I’ve arrived late to this discussion so take this for what it’s worth.
I spent two years teaching in a local community college. The situation then (1989-91) was abominable. Recent high school grads were unable to read or write well and were in direct contrast to older folks in my history and political science classes. The issue was blanket admission to any high school grad.
I went to a small Christian college on Lookout Mtn., GA and was well served then for grad school.
My opinion is that today’s BA from a public university is equal to a high school diploma of forty years ago.
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I couldn’t hang around college because I was married and had a wife to support and wanted to start a family. I also knew that while my degree in Architecture would be helpful, I had no wish to be one since the money was in the land and the building – not the design.
Architects were and are more so today, a dime a dozen. It was a shock to realize that 25 years ago there were 35,000 architects in the USA and that year we graduated 35,000 more of them. It was pretty obvious that to get ahead in buildings that designing them wasn’t the way to go.
I do know many very good but poor Architects.
It is best to own your own business so you can do exactly what you want and you don’t have to take orders of any kind from anyone but only .4% of people do own them for some reason. You have to work a lot harder but it is worth it.
I just read about the latest best predictor of who will do well in college according to college admissions and real stats and history. The best predictor, by far, is High School Grade Point Average. The rest are pretty worthless.
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I am a full time professor at a community college with many students coming from Trenton, NJ. You have to be patient, accept the students you get and teach to the middle. Not everyone is fit for a 4-year degree. But everyone deserves a chance at trying. And if you can’t make it through a cc program, that screens them away from the more expensive 4-year colleges.
Given how inexpensive our tuition is (and the ability of financial aid) we can’t be accused of putting people into thousands of dollars in debt. And indeed, if more folks took advantage of ccs — got as many of their credits there and then transfered them to 4-year colleges (something else North recommends) — we actually help in alleviating that debt.
One thing that has been ignored is that even if technically you can get the knowledge and skills necessary for a particular position without the degree, there are MANY well paying jobs where you can’t get hired or promoted without BA or graduate degrees.
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Good advice, Jon.
Thanks.
Here is an interesting clip from Gary North on how to earn a college degree spending the least amount of $$.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evJeAAJedbY
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John Rowe post 29,
I have to chuckle when you note:
‘Perhaps I’m only saying this because I have three graduate degrees and am a full time college professor; but I think there is something salutary about simply getting educated.”
but then you comment:
“Personally, I know as much about religion and the Founding as many historians with PhDs in the subject, most of it I didn’t learn in college or grad. school; though a few contitutional law courses in law school excepting.”
Might it just be that your experience during your three degrees, not to mention possible your tenure asa college professor, has provided the training you required to master this material?
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llama post 33,
but of course if high school classes are so poor, they would seem to not do well at predicting college success.
I suspect that perhaps the best predictor of whether a student will do well in college is whether they want to do well.
In any event given the low predicability of the SATs and the arguable issues with GPA (see various comments on grade inflation in various environs), I suspect my proposed model couldn’t be much worse!
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36,
I think you are exactly right. Another thing that has helped me is the open access to information on the Internet and the “gotcha” culture of internet blogging, where if you slip up, a bunch of bloggers are there to catch you and point out your error (indeed, I’m one of them). So I make sure that in my research and assertions I live by the same high standards, regarding primary sources and whatnot, that I hold against the figures I might criticize.
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Wow … this is rather scary. I’ll be starting my MA at a state university this fall.
Any tips for how I cam make the most of it?
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Musing,
I agree that SAT/ACT scores alone are not good predictors. Notice my real-life example above used several other criteria as well. Is any formula perfect or even right 90% of the time? No, but schools shouldn’t encourage kids with D averages plus low test scores to give college a try using federal aid.
You say the best predictor is if the kid wants to do well–good luck measuring that!
I do agree, though, that is the most important part–motivation can overcome most other obstacles.
Ultimately, the kid receives the aid and the personal responsibility with it. But the schools encourage and enable the process to get the money, often knowing full well that a large percentage will not complete the first term or year.
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I’m going to echo Jon’s paen to the library card–all across the country, wonderful local libraries have enabled me to learn so very much more than my speedy three years earning a BA at UCLA.
My teacher mother used to say the school didn’t matter, if you wanted to learn, you could get everything you needed from a class or books. The love for learning was what made the difference.
I don’t know how many times I’ve rued not having an advanced degree–surely I’m as smart as all you MAs?
–but the answer, for me, always has been, no–go to the library instead.
Of course, in my particular job the fact I’ve been reading across genres for 47 years (!) has made more of a difference than any graduate degree.
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Because of changing technology and a changing economy, a BA does not “buy” what it used to. However, what is the real purpose of going to college to get a degree in the first place? If it is simply to get a job, then I suppose we can say that the BA is failing many these days. However, if education also helps to improve a person, gives him or her new things to think about and new ways to think about them and provides the skills to continue learning throughout life, then I have to stand up and cheer for my BA. Not a day goes by that I don’t use some thing I learned in college, even in the courses outside of my major field. In college I learned how to read carefully and to appreciate all kinds of books; I learned how to write and to speak clearly in public; I learned how to listen and to learn from others’ experiences; I also learned how to explore new topics on my own. Since I graduated from college almost 20 years ago [Geez!] I have enjoyed a life of learning and growing, based on the foundation I built during those four years.
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Good thing I got a BS… BAs are BS.
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#42 – I agree! College isn’t only about a job – it’s about becoming educated and well-rounded. Trade schools are only about a job. I have friends not using their degree, but they are certainly using their educations.
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Americaneee psot 42,
but of course you now raise a very critical and important question: what is the purpose of an education?
What I think you will find in the case of most people who succeed at school (ather than perhaps survive it) is that they much as you suggest learn how to read and learn how to learn. It is a critical skill and I found it takes a long time to master it well.
The question can be raised, however, whether the average American family can afford education as what might be termed an intellecutal luxury.
And on that perhaps hinges the discussion.
In my case I considered my college education as trade school training. But then I was training to do research, which perhaps confounds the question.
So lets put it this way (since I am paying full tuitioon for a child presently in college):
Can a family afford $160K plus room and board for four years of intellectual enrichment for the child?
Which then leads to the question of whether such enrichment should be limited to the children of the very rich?
And shortly we will be back at cameron’s concerns about the use of Federal money to subsidize education.
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Jon Rowe post 38,
and indeed you do check your facts and I never challenge you without doing very careful research in advance!!
Fortunatley you and I appear to have similar perspectives, but …
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Generous first year admissions policy are more than just an financial bonus for universities, which they are. High schools do not employ the same standards. Despite the best intentions, marks do differ. Even in elementary schools this is apparent — an A in my school is a B in my daughter’s school; simply based on what staff have become accustomed to and what the average ability. Universities will often give or take a few percents and let the first year experience sort them out. one third by Christmas and an other third by the end of first year will drop out.
I also believe the continuous educational model with very little purpose employed by many students leads to drop outs and underachieving careers. Students should take a year off between high school and college to discover and explore interest — volunteer, travel, job shadow, work etc. Why waste a years tuition to find out your first major really wasn’t what you want nor did it give right preparation for a professional school.
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hyrw post 47,
your comments on grades is of course the challenge to cameron’s suggestion.
In short, we really have very poor tools to predict student success in college. And hence your model of give them a chance has merit.
The year between high school and college is an interesting idea. I would raise the question: how many potential students will get distracted and lose focus during this year? But perhaps this would be a good thing.
P.S. as an aside, I have always found the special student model for entering grad school appealing: give the students a chance to show if they are capable before granting them full admittance to the degree program.
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hrw post 47,
your comments on grades is of course the challenge to cameron’s suggestion.
In short, we really have very poor tools to predict student success in college. And hence your model of give them a chance has merit.
The year between high school and college is an interesting idea. I would raise the question: how many potential students will get distracted and lose focus during this year? But perhaps this would be a good thing.
P.S. as an aside, I have always found the special student model for entering grad school appealing: give the students a chance to show if they are capable before granting them full admittance to the degree program. If they succceeed as special students, they will also probably succeed as regular students.
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hrw post 47,
[second attempt to post]
your comments on grades is of course the challenge to cameron’s suggestion.
In short, we really have very poor tools to predict student success in college. And hence your model of give them a chance has merit.
The year between high school and college is an interesting idea. I would raise the question: how many potential students will get distracted and lose focus during this year? But perhaps this would be a good thing.
P.S. as an aside, I have always found the special student model for entering grad school appealing: give the students a chance to show if they are capable before granting them full admittance to the degree program. If they succceeed as special students, they will also probably succeed as regular students.
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Good morning everyone! Musing 42 raises the concerns about the rising cost of education, particularly private education. I feel like I finished college and graduate school just in time. It was still prohibitively expensive for my family [I have written elsewhere about the financial difficulties that my family experienced at the time] but I received significant scholarships to make it possible. I am concerned that there does not seem to be the largess today on the part of the institutions. For example, my graduate alma mater no longer offers the full scholarship for an MA program that they gave to me back in the early 1990s. I would never have been able to get the MA without it.
The rising cost of education seems to coincide with the increased availability of student loans. Colleges don’t have to reign in tuition since students can easily get loans to pay tuition. Perhaps this is a cycle that needs to be checked.
However, on the other side of things…Wages today are much higher and the distractions for one’s pay are much greater than they were back when I was in school. I am shocked to hear people who drive SUVs and live in large houses tell me they cannot afford a private school for their children. They surely can, if they give up the material stuff and save accordingly. Take all those gadgets and gimmes and add them up over time and you’ll have your 160K, no problem. Where you put your money shows what your priorities are. Everything is expensive so we can’t have it all. But we can have the one expensive thing we want the most, and so we choose.
The folks I worry about the most are the ones who are struggling and don’t have any of the frilly stuff to cut back on. Unless institutions give those students scholarships, education will be closed to them.
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Mericaneee post 51,
so this will date me, but my tuition when I was young was about $1000/semester. I could make several thousand dollars a year in a job (I did work 30+ hours a week in addition to college), so I could afford my own tuition and room and board.
Today the tuition is about $40K/year. Even a generous argument would allow a sturdent to make perhaps $13K/year. there is no way they can afford their own tuition and room and board.
When I graudated from college my first professional job paid $12K/year. By that point tuition had reached about $4K/year. It could still be afforded on a professonal salary.
Today median household income is about $43K:
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/002484.html
No matter how you cut it, this tuition can not be afforded by the average household without assistance.
In short, tuition has increased at significantly faster than the rate of inflation and faster than increases in wages.
So I susgest that from an historical perspective, your analysis is not convincing: tuition today is a much larger percentage of income certainly than when I was in school.
And so your last sentence is the operative one:
“The folks I worry about the most are the ones who are struggling and don’t have any of the frilly stuff to cut back on. Unless institutions give those students scholarships, education will be closed to them.”
And when I go to schools to counsel students on pursuing college, this frustration and dismay at the arguably unmanageable tuition cost is one of the largest weights on the minds of high school juniors and seniors.
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Musing – I think you misunderstood what I wrote in my last post. I agree that tuitions are too high, especially in relation to the increase in other prices and wages. My point was about people who can afford an education but don’t want to pay for it, even if it is expensive. I never hear these types of people complain about the cost of their expensive car or house. Regardless of what the median household income is, there are lots of people who can afford the higher tuitions. They just don’t want to pay them.
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ameicanee post 53,
so lets look at the price of a car: make it $40K with a 5 year loan, perhaps $500/mo (I believe this will be high).
The prices of a home: $250K is about the average price of a home. At say 7% interest a year: about $20K/year. And do remember that people do need a home.
And now college: $40K/yr or so.
If I give up my house and I give up my car, I still can’t afford college.
My sense is your math does not appear to be adding up.
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I graduated three years ago with a B.S. in Communications, which I thought would be a useful degree. However, it seems that the only jobs that I qualify for are dead-end clerical positions that don’t pay a living wage.
Managers love perpetrating the precious fantasy that you can “work your way up” from being a SECRETARY! Though flattered by offers of a lifetime of pink-collar servitude, I think that grad school may very well be my only option.
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#55 “Managers love perpetrating the precious fantasy that you can “work your way up” from being a SECRETARY!”
Phansel,
It does happen, just not often. Where I have worked, people are promoted based on their abilities and initiative (especially the latter), not their degrees. Most secretaries are not interested in working their way up – management requires a very different set of skills. I have an MBA, but no interest in being a manager – I got the degree to be a better computer professional, because companies are always lacking IT people who also understand business.
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Phansel,
I’m not really sure of the difference between a B.S. and a B.A., but my degree is a B.A. in Communications, and I got a job (as an editor, my dream job) right out of college. It depends what you’re looking for (radio? print?), but for me and most of those in my graduating year who were successful in landing the jobs we wanted, getting an internship and working part-time in our field during college was the key. If you think I might have any insights for you, and you want to e-mail me with questions, go to my website (click on my name above) or e-mail me at the address in my profile in “meet the regulars.” I’ve chosen not to get a master’s, as it might or might not help me and I don’t want to spend the time and the money. But I still have a nice resume.
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phansel post 55,
actually I managed a modestly large IS group. We have had several secretarties/adminhistrative assistants work they way up to professionals in the department. It is not easy, it is often slow, but it can be done.
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