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Top of the morning to y’all!
Today’s quote is from a former prime minister: “It is a mistake to look too far ahead. Only one link in the chain of destiny can be handled at a time.”
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back to top61 Comments to “Whirled Views 5.3”
Winston Churchill?
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Churchill was asked for a detailed long term plan for the war, but he said “It is a mistake to look too far ahead. Only one link in the chain of destiny can be handled at a time.”
This seems all too true when it comes to war. The final costs are never expected. Even a just war, which requires our duty, has the element of unpredicted results.
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Couldn’t this quote also be applied to those who are looking forward to the 2012 election?
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Looking for a cool number game for a Saturday? I wish I’d thought of this myself, but I must give credit to the source. This game is from the Dennis & Callahan page of WEEI.com sports radio out of Boston. Yes, NJL…..the home of the world series champion Red Sox!
enjoy:
1. Key in the first 3 digits of your phone number….NOT the area code.
2. Multiply by 80
3. Add 1
4. Multipy by 250
5. Add the last 4 digits of your phone number
6. Add the last 4 digits of your phone number again .
7. Subtract 250
8. Divide by 2.
recognize the answer ??
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Samuel (2): Even a just war, which requires our duty …
Frank: 1) Isn’t the phrase “which requires our duty” redundant and self-referencing? Sort of like saying “you have a duty to do your duty” or “you’re required to fulfill the requirements”?
2) More importantly, you seem to be saying that just wars require one to participate in them. If that is, in fact, what you are saying, where is this taught in Scripture?
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KBells: Enjoy your virtual coffee of the day!
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Where I am the weather is really bad. You all know that I have experienced a bad time lately and I have ended a relationship that I have known for a long time was toxic. So turning over a page let’s have something light and cheerful. We all know how Chas and Elmira met. How about the rest of you. How did you meet your husband, wife, love of your life? I need to believe in somthing happy today.
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TJ and I met teaching public school in south Georgia. He remembers the day we met; alas, as a student teacher with a staff of one hundred to meet that week, I do not.
It took a while for us to be in the right place at the right time to date, but that gave us time to get to know each other as friends first.
We’ve been happily married for seven years this June.
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Hi all,
I’d like as many of you as have time to help me out with a little experiment. There is a WoW thread entitled, “The problem: science. The solution: go nuts!” by Harrison Scott Key. It is located about 4 pages back in “Previous Entries” (link at bottom of thread listings).
There is a post 81 (by me) in that thread that I would like you all to look at and then post an answer of your own to my question there. I can’t tell you more without prejudicing your response, but I would be most grateful if you can look and post your response. Thanks in advance.
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#9
Dr. Dave,
Since you didn’t phrase your post #81 in the form of a question, I’m not sure I’m answering the right thing, but I would label your “concept or construct” as a flower.
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Thanks for sharing Cameron. It made me smile.
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Speaking of just war ..
I picked my daughter up from SAT tests this morning and we drove past a group of hairy unkempt protesters on the town common asking the few residents of our small town to stop the genocide in Darfur.
“OK, I’d be happy to”, I said. My daughter agreed. Then I asked her whether she thought they would allow military intervention. “Oh, no. Holding up signs, marching and shouting at traffic is as far as they would go.”, she said.
No flower power protester in America today would propose intervention in Iraq. So how do we intervene in other countries without “intervening” or being called “imperialists”?
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Kim #7 I met my wife at a “College and Career” group at church when we were in our early twenties.
She was the activities coordinator and I showed up for all the activities. Many times no one else would show up, so it would just be the two of us. After a while we started coordinating our own activities. This must be working for us since it has continued on for decades.
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Kim – My husband & I met on a blind date, though we had talked on the phone for quite a while the night before. I knew by the end of our first week together that we’d end up getting married.
It’s been 22 years now, & it’s a good marriage. We’ve had some tough times, but were committed to Jesus & each other. God has been our Rock.
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DH and I met at a small church, but the story of how we began to date differs depending on which one of us you ask! We were both in our late 20s when we married 20 years ago.
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Thank you Pauline. You did just fine.
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#5 FRANK
My previous comment (#2) was simply a personal reflection of my own thoughts and was not intended to advocate a universal principle. Let your conscience be your guide. But since you asked about “just war” theory. . . .
Much of it is derived from the verses below in Romans. I will summarize two main points that R. C. Sproul makes in his commentary:
1.It is a Christian’s duty to be as submissive to the government as he possibly can without violating the laws of God.
2.The government has a God-given right to bear the sword, and not only bear it but use it to preserve, maintain, defend, and promote life. Therefore it is the Christian’s responsibility to obey and serve. Christians who are called to serve in the armed forces in a righteous cause have a moral obligation to serve. If, on the other hand, the war is a war of aggression and its purpose is not to protect the people living within the government’s borders – the Christian may refuse to serve. An unjust war is a war in which you are the aggressor and its purpose is not to resist an aggressor or protect its own people from becoming victims.
13:1 “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.”
I hope this information has been helpful. I am not an expert on “just war” theory although I have intended to read more on the subject. Perhaps, I will get around to it soon. Interesting subject!
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Dr. Dave, I didn’t visit that thread much after the first few posts and was not aware of the discussion that you and Musing were having. You posted a very complicated diagram, which I coldn’t have accomplished. I haven’t seen it before; but after viewing it and going back and reading Musing’s #80, I still don’t understand it.
And I don’t understand your question/request here.
I didn’t see a flower. But I have no artistic talent.
Will you explain it sometime tomorrow, before the thread dies?
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Kim – Fun question.
My husband and I grew up in the same small town and lived within 3 miles of one another – went to the same school etc. (He was 3 years ahead of me)
Many years ago (over 40)our town had a summer Rec program and the evening session was geared to the teens and we almost always played softball. It was during those softball games, we got to know one another and the interest was sparked. It took another 4-5 years of intermittent dating before we got serious and then were married in 1973. We celebrated our 35th anniversary this past March.
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Kim,
Last week, we called a new pastor to our church. Doing the group interview, (about 500), his wife told us how they met.
Seems their mothers were pregnant together. (She is 3 months older than he.) They knew each other as children, but never “connected”. He went to (Ughhhh-) Clemson and felt a call to the ministry. She went to Converse College, in Spartanburg. At a youth rally, a group leader was talking about callings and careers. She said, “He said some would be called to be pastors, missionaries, some doctors, or lawyers, some may be called to be a pastor’s wife.” She said that she felt something in her heart say, “That’s my calling, to be a pastor’s wife.” But Converse is an all girl’s school. (Is that constitutional?) She had no dates there. But later, she and Ryan were at a youth rally. They happened to be at the same table, alone. Knowing each other, they started talking about what they planned after college. He said “I plan to be a pastor. What are your plans”. She said, “I feel called to be a pastor’s wife.”
She said that was a conversation stopper. Both looked at the floor for a while, but a year later, they were married.
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Kim,
Since I’m not married, I can’t tell my own story, but I think my parents’ story is really special. My mom was living in NYC, working in an office, volunteering at the Harlem Mission and active in her Presbyterian Church. My dad got out of service (WWII), went to Albany Business College on GI Bill and then moved to NYC to try to break into show business as a magician. One day he saw some people going to church and decided to go the next Sunday. He went a few times and then discovered that they had church on Sunday night. This sounded good to him. He could sleep in on Sunday morning after being out late doing night club shows and go to church on Sunday night. Then one day a young lady (my mother) invited him to come on Wednesday night. My dad thought that was a bit much, but he went because a young lady asked him. They were doing a series about how to win someone to Christ on Wednesday nights. There my dad heard the gospel clearly for the first time in his life (he had grown up in a liberal Sunday School). He got saved that night and within a year, he and my mom were married and he was in Bible school training to be a pastor. They have been married (and in ministry) for over 60 years now. My mom says she didn’t like my dad at all when they first met, but she knew he needed to be saved. And the rest is history…
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Another, “How they met”, if I may.
We moved into a small house in Falls Church, Va. In 1965. Soon after that, my wife’s sister, Polly, who was a nurse, came to visit us from Atlanta. She decided she liked the area and went to Fairfax Hospital seeking a job. She got it and moved in with us while waiting to get settled. (There’s another story here that I may tell someday.) Anyhow, Polly was staying with us.
I had two good friends at work, Ed and Mel. Ed got sick and Mel and I went to the hospital to see him. Mel stopped by our house afterward and saw Polly. There is a thread here concerning Ruth. Well, Boaz and Mel had the same experience. They both saw something they liked.
Mel and Polly moved to Hendersonville in 1991. We visited them a few times and Elvera always wanted to be close to her family, so we (she?) decided this would be a good place to live. I had no family left, so here we are.
Mel used to be my friend, now he’s kin.
It’s all Ed’s fault. I still e-mail him occasionally.
Elvera enjoys being close to her sisters.
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Thank you all for sharing. Some made me laugh and some brought tears to my eyes (but good ones!!!)
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one more KIm, My husband and I worked together for years and bickered so much people started telling us we should go ahead and get married. The day before I moved into the same office with him, he joked that I wouldn’t like it. It was a “man’s office”. Early the next morning I “redecorated” the office. There were ruffled curtains on the window, a lace panel on the bookcase, pictures of doggies, kitties and bunnies as well a couple of stuffed versions of the same. I even found a pretty flower covered straw hat for the door. My husband to be threw a fake Shatner like fit, but our married office mate just shrugged and said it looked like his bedroom at home. We both knew there was an attraction, but he would never ask me out because he had had a bad relationship with a co-worker once. A month after he took another job I sent him a birthday card and signed it “your future ex-wife”. The timing was perfect is because his current girlfriend forgot to call him on his birthday. We still did volunteer work at a homeless shelter together and that’s where he ask me out on our first date.
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kbells I love it. I have a friend who has been very kind to both of his ex-wives. When I was going through my divorce I jokingly asked him if we could skip all the bad stuff and I could go straight to being his ex-wife. Without missing a beat he said :Sure. Stop by Friday and pick up your check.
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After my brother’s divorce he said that instead of remarrying he was just going to skip all that and find a women he hated and buy her a car.
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Samuel,
Does just war ever include going to war against the oppressors of one’s allies? (As in, someone had tp stand up against Germany in WWII?) Scripture includes many such instances, but I’m not sure I’ve seen that point on lists of what makes a just war. I think it’s incomplete without.
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Dr. Dave. I saw a rose?
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Samuel (17),
I appreciate the clarification.
Let me preface my remarks thus: I am an advocate of a militia-based system of national defense, where every man 20 or older is a citizen soldier. I think this system is pictured very well in the OT, and should cause kings and presidents to avoid prosecuting unjust wars — militiamen won’t generally be too keen on participating in wars of foreign aggression, and thus would (theoretically) be more involved with what their government is doing in foreign policy. (And hopefull, if they were ever ordered to prosecute an unjust war, they’d simply reply, “Hell no, we won’t go.”)
That said, your statement
gives me pause. That “call” and “obligation” language sounds dangerously close to conscription, and I see no biblical warrant for Caesar compelling citizens to fight. Two supporting passages:
1) 1 Samuel 8 – Conscription is one of a list of several curses that will befall Israel if they choose a king “like the other nations have.”
2) Mark 12 – Jesus taught that some things are rightfully Caesar’s to claim, e.g. the money that bore his image and inscription. Along with this, He taught that other things belong to God rather than Caesar. I think it reasonable to infer from Jesus’ words that those things which bear God’s image and inscription rather than Caesar’s — such as people — rightfully belong to God, and not to Caesar. (I’ve developed this thought a little more fully in the post “My coins, but not my sons” on my weblog.)
Conscription is based on the idea that Caesar, not God, owns your person. If the government wants to call volunteers lberate Iraq or deliver rice to Somalia, fine. But when I took the oath of enlistment in 1980, it was all about defneding the nation and Constitution, not liberating the world’s oppressed or feeding the world’s hungry. And that is the “big bait and switch,” as I like to call itY
u volunteer to defend the country, and get sent to do anything but.
But the president (regardless of party or person) doesn’t ask for volunteers from the military to do non-defensive duties around the world. Now that they’ve signed up,, they’re butts are his for 4 years.
But back to the “call” issue: If they wish to call for volunteers, I’m fine with that.
But if they ever seek to compel men to fight by threat of punishment … well, turn to 1 Samuel 8 for a reminder of just what unrighteous kings do.
In short, yes, we are to obey those who rule over us, but not in all things without qualification. When Caesar commands unrighteousness, Christians have the obligation to disobey him.
For whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to Caesar more than to God …
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Samuel,
And as re. your getting around to studying Just War theory, may I recommend the late Dr. Greg Bahnsen’s 3-sermon series, “A Christian View of War”?
It’s available from Covenant Media Foundation at
http://www.cmfnow.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4832
And you can even download the 18-page .pdf study guide for free, right now, at
http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/christian%20view%20of%20war.pdf
Good stuff there.
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Dr. Dave – I saw a rose, too. I hesitated to answer, because I wasn’t sure what the question was, exactly. I thought maybe I should have some intellectual-sounding response about how the rose appears to us from the printing of the various letters & such.
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My husband and I met at a 20-something retreat. I thought he was new, so I was trying to involve him and make him feel welcomed. he was by himself, playing piano in the chapel. i didn’t realize that he had grown up in the church’s youth group and knew almost everyone. He had just been away at college during the 9 mths that I had been attending the group.
Anyway, I was trying to make him feel welcome and he “just wanted me to leave him alone.” Unknowingly, I was very close friends with steve (his best friend). They became room mates. I spent everyday for 4 years at their house. My husband prayed for 4 years- please show me whom I am supposed to marry and don’t let it be Mary. At the end of 4 years he prayed- please show me whom I am supposed to marry. God said, “Mary.” he started pursuing me- that startled me. I could no longer just show up at their house- I had to wait for him to call and invite me.
We dated secretly for 3 mths- that was so much fun. We were married within the year. I have now been married 12 wonderful years to my best friend.
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Mrs L and I met in a college Spanish class.
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Thanks to all who responded. I was curious to know if the pattern of characters in the post evoked an image. It did for most and that was the hypothesis I wanted to test. Thanks again.
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My Grandmothers dad sent her and her younger sister to town “to find a man” to help shock the wheat. This was in 1926. She went into the pool hall and asked the proprietor if there was anyone who could work. He pointed to a young man sleeping in the corner and suggested she ask him. She woke him up and he was willing to shock wheat so they went out to the car and he got in the back seat with the younger sister who scooted clear over to the other side because “she didn’t want to sit by that dirty old guy”!
My Great-grandpa’s take on it was uncertainty but Great-grandma thought he would work out ok. They got married in 1928 and were married for 71 years.
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I met my wife at church when I was 22. She and her friend had been discussing me, and decide to introduce themselves. Her friend bowled me over so much that I had to retreat. I admit I was still a little shy and introverted at that point, so my future wife’s seeming reserve was more attractive. I wound up asking my pastor for her phone number, and then asked her out. We went for a walk and a cup of hot chocolate that first night. She remembers thinking on the way over, that I was her youngest sister’s age, and did I really know how old she was? (My wife is 6-1/2 years older than I am.) After we met and talked for a while she realized that I simply would not have made any sense to her sister. (Looking back on it all, I was not nearly as mature as I thought I was…)
So we drove each other crazy for several months or so until we got married the following winter. How we ever finally made the decision I’ll never know.
It’s been difficult with me being the only breadwinner, learning a trade, raising the two children, buying a house (finally) and adjusting two very selfish people with totally different backgrounds to living harmoniously (she’s used to the Georgia country club, and I’m used to the backwoods of Alaska). I still wouldn’t trade it for anything though. She’s still as lovely and cute as she ever was. And now, there’s history, connection, and tremendous meaning.
I might even learn how to dance one of these days….
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For some reason 35 reminds me of how my parents met. Mama and her friend met Daddy and his friend at a party and were asked out on a double date. Up until they were picked up the girls still didn’t know who was suppose to be with which guy. So without looking my Mama got in the back seat. There was Daddy. Lucky for him. Mama’s friend turned out to be a Kleptomaniac. She would have probably gotten his wallet before she got a ring.
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My parents’ story is to me quite unusual, and I didn’t know one very important detail until Mom told my sister and me the story when my sister was about to get married (I was nearly 30), and I outright asked.
Mom and Dad met and married on the mission field, Nigeria. He was the only bachelor anywhere around (single women outnumbered single men something like ten to one on the mission field), but Mom had only heard that he was scrawny and not a good language student, and she wasn’t interested. Dad, however, had heard that Mom had red hair.
Mom had friends (a married couple) who were stationed in the same town where Dad was stationed. She decided to spend her vacation with them. Dad, hearing that the red-haired single gal was coming to town, volunteered to pick her up at the bus. Mom’s first look at him was a man in the bus headlights, great big grin on his face, his gold tooth shining.
They had a three-month engagement; that I’ve known all my life. What I didn’t know until I asked outright was that they were engaged only ten days after meeting! Mom says they discussed when they could see each other again, and decided that their schedules could converge in three months. And then they decided “why not make it permanent” and decided they would marry at that next meeting! They were married in a grass-roofed church, with a dress Mom already owned but hadn’t yet worn, with only their witnesses (the married couple) understanding English. Their wedding music was a record of Helen Barth singing.
(My oldest brother, born ten months after they got married, was the only one of us born in Nigeria.)
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On the first Monday of October, 1995 I met the woman who was to become Mrs. V at a Bible Study Fellowship meeting in our hometown. I recognized her immediately as someone who had graduated from my high school with my older brother. They were seniors when I was a freshman, and this was about 9 years after I had graduated. Although I recognized her immediately, she did not recognize me and so I had to tell her that I was “Sam’s little brother.”
I had been aware that she had gone to Northwestern University, as had Sam. I had also graduated from Northwestern, but as I was in engineering at the time and she was in psychology (and three years older to boot), our paths never crossed.
Football fans may remember that for years and years NU had a terrible football team, having in the early 80’s lost 42 in a row. When the future Mrs. V found out who I was she pulled a newspaper clipping out of her pocket and said “You should show this to your brother.” It was the current rankings with NU in the top 25 for the first time in my memory. (They played in and lost the Rose Bowl that year.)
It turned out that after graduating, we had both earned teaching credentials at the same university, but not of course at the same time. She was an elementary teacher in the district we grew up in. I was a Math/Physics teacher.
Every Monday at BSF thereafter we would discuss the previous Saturday’s NU game, and since they only lost one game during the regular season (before we met) it was always something we enjoyed. Believe it or not our first date was watching a Northwestern football together. When they went to the Rose Bowl, she decided to host a Rose Bowl party. (I got to help.)
Along the way, we found that alongside our similar educational backgrounds, we had had very different life situations that had led us to serving the same Savior. And that our goals in life were very similar.
By March we were engaged, married in November. A little more than 11 years and 3 children later it seems more like 11 months.
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Kim – I briefly mentioned above how I met my husband, but let me share one more thing.
At the time we met, he had recently been pursuing an ex-girlfriend. As we dated & he got to know me, he was a bit confused as to which girl to pursue.
One night, driving home from a brief date with yet another women (he was keeping his options open), thinking about which girl could be the “right one”, my face appeared in front of him! He then knew I was the one God had for him.
I tease him that that must have been scary.
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Thank you. There may be hope for me after all…
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I started to post this on the “Meditations” thread, but it isn’t about Ruth. But our sermon this morning was about Joshua, and the (visiting) pastor made a point worth sharing.
God visited and gave Joshua instruction about Jericho. It didn’t make sense, but Joshua did it.
They circled the city (under instructions) once and went home. They did that six days, nothing had changed. They did it the seventh day. Seven times they did it. They were probably exhausted at all this marching. But Joshua gave one more command, when the trumpets blow, Shout. Nothing had changed at all until this time.
They were one shout short of victory.
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Kim, REG, others. I’m relectant to try to apply this. But: Keep marching. The time will come to shout.
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Thanks Chas. I think I get what you are trying to say.
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The summer before I started high school my next-door neighbor kept pestering me to play volleyball on Friday nights at the Lutheran church around the corner because, “boys are there.”
The first time I went, I blocked a kill from an unusually dressed guy on the other side of the net. He drove me home that night and we dated for six years until we graduated from college and I felt old enough to get married–30 years ago.
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Chas – Thank you for that “sermonette”. I’m going through some difficulties of my own (one of which is breaking my heart), so it is good to be reminded to keep trusting God even when we don’t see anything happening or changing.
So I’ll keep “marching” through each day, & one of these days I’ll give a shout & see the victory!
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Praying for you Karen.
You state: ” I’ll give a shout & see the victory!” —- This hymn below was sung in church this morning, it always touches my heart.
The wonderful old hymn “WHEN WE ALL GET TO HEAVEN” written by Eliza E. Hewitt, in Pentecostal Praises, by William Kirkpatrick and Henry Gilmour.
Sing the wondrous love of Jesus,
Sing His mercy and His grace.
In the mansions bright and blessèd
He’ll prepare for us a place.
Refrain
When we all get to Heaven,
What a day of rejoicing that will be!
When we all see Jesus,
We’ll sing and shout the victory!
While we walk the pilgrim pathway,
Clouds will overspread the sky;
But when traveling days are over,
Not a shadow, not a sigh.
Refrain
Let us then be true and faithful,
Trusting, serving every day;
Just one glimpse of Him in glory
Will the toils of life repay.
Refrain
Onward to the prize before us!
Soon His beauty we’ll behold;
Soon the pearly gates will open;
We shall tread the streets of gold.
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One of our hymns this morning was ‘My Hope is Built on Nothing Less’. Karen, just another reminder of the solid rock we have in Christ.
R–Rest
O–On
C–Christ our
K–King
Here is a link with music and all.
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/m/y/myhopeis.htm
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One of our hymns this morning was ‘My Hope is Built on Nothing Less’ Just another reminder of the solid rock we have in Christ.
R–Rest
O–On
C–Christ our
K–King
Here is a link with music and all.
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/m/y/myhopeis.htm
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One of our hymns this morning was ‘My Hope is Built on Nothing Less’ Karen, just another reminder of the solid rock we have in Christ.
R–Rest
O–On
C–Christ our
K–King
Here is a link with music and all.
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/m/y/myhopeis.htm
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Thanks for the prayers, Victoria.
We sing that song, too!
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Karen,
One of the hymns today was My hope is built on nothin less than Jesus blood and righteousness’
He is our ROCK.
R–Rest
O–On
C–Christ our
K–King
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Today has been better. Beautiful sunshiney day. My flowers are pretty. I fixed Italian potroast and roasted veggies. Chloe and I went down to the bay and watched the ducks.
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Grandma, I love that hymn. What a comfort our faith in HIM is, how glorious being with HIM for Eternity will be.
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Hi Kim, I’ve been thinking of you.
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18(Chas): The point was to see if people could form a concept from non-linguistic input. In this case, an image in the mind of a rose. An extended discussion of why some can and some can’t is given on the thread. Thank you for your willingness to help out.
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I thought it might be something like that. But after someone said it was a flower, I still didn’t see it. As I said, I have no artistic talent. My wife selects the tie to go with whatever else.
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Grandma – Yup, we sing that one, too. There is so much truth & comfort in many hymns, & – dare I say it? – even in many “praise choruses”.
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Chas,
It is possible you’re looking too closely at the image–the forest for the trees, so to speak. If you’re game, skip back to the image (conveniently located in the Editor’s Choice box at the top of every page) and scoot your chair/body back from the screen. Try to have as much of the image on the screen as possible (the whole thing won’t fit, but the top two-thirds or so should). If that doesn’t work, start from the top of the image and scroll down at a reasonable pace.
I can’t see those “Magic Eye” puzzles that were popular a few years ago, but I can see the rose and often can see the double images in silhouette art (a young girl facing right or an old woman facing left, depending on whether you look at the shaded space or the white space).
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OK Cameron, I can see it after you told me what to look for. It never would have occurred to me otherwise.
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Chas,
I thought that might work!
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