Comments on: Beauty is in the eye of the (teacher of the) beholder http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/ A forum for discussion of news that arises at the intersection of Christianity and culture. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:39:50 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Cheryl D. http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/comment-page-1/#comment-299758 Cheryl D. Thu, 08 May 2008 02:59:48 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/#comment-299758 One of the tasks I do is occasional critiques of unpublished writers. Now, one would think a "critique" would mean "Tell me whether it's any good. Tell me which elements work and which ones don't." And, trust me, some of the works I critique are horrid; they look like rough drafts from someone who flunked English and has never read a book. I always try to start with something positive. One time I thought for a long, long time, and the only positive thing I could think of was "Your work is creative." Now, that wasn't a true compliment, because it was creatively awful (bad story line, bad grammar, boring, bad theology, bad dialogue, evidence the writer knew nothing about the setting or about children, bad everything). And then the person came back to me, complaining because I didn't suggest a place that might consider publishing it!!!! But yeah, when people send me works to critique, what many of them are <i>really</i> saying is, "I want a professional editor to like it as well as my doting grandmother does, and to tell me which publisher to send it to and make a quick million dollars." They don't want a "critique" at all; they want an awards ceremony. But as far as I'm concerned, if someone pays me for a critique and I don't tell them the parts that need improvement, I haven't done my job. So, with the bad ones, I struggle to come up with some positive things, but I don't hide the bad stuff. And I don't pretend like it's ready for publishing when it isn't even close. I think 50 years ago that would have been considered a really valuable service; today it's sometimes considered inappropriate. (Now, I love it when I receive really good work and can tell the writer that!) One of the tasks I do is occasional critiques of unpublished writers. Now, one would think a “critique” would mean “Tell me whether it’s any good. Tell me which elements work and which ones don’t.”

And, trust me, some of the works I critique are horrid; they look like rough drafts from someone who flunked English and has never read a book. I always try to start with something positive. One time I thought for a long, long time, and the only positive thing I could think of was “Your work is creative.” Now, that wasn’t a true compliment, because it was creatively awful (bad story line, bad grammar, boring, bad theology, bad dialogue, evidence the writer knew nothing about the setting or about children, bad everything). And then the person came back to me, complaining because I didn’t suggest a place that might consider publishing it!!!!

But yeah, when people send me works to critique, what many of them are really saying is, “I want a professional editor to like it as well as my doting grandmother does, and to tell me which publisher to send it to and make a quick million dollars.” They don’t want a “critique” at all; they want an awards ceremony. But as far as I’m concerned, if someone pays me for a critique and I don’t tell them the parts that need improvement, I haven’t done my job. So, with the bad ones, I struggle to come up with some positive things, but I don’t hide the bad stuff. And I don’t pretend like it’s ready for publishing when it isn’t even close. I think 50 years ago that would have been considered a really valuable service; today it’s sometimes considered inappropriate. (Now, I love it when I receive really good work and can tell the writer that!)

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]]> By: Make it Man http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/comment-page-1/#comment-299688 Make it Man Wed, 07 May 2008 23:00:02 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/#comment-299688 Llama, Being in the cabinet design business I know exactly what you mean. I've seen so many "designers" that put together such a hodgepodge of junk, that I'll never hire one. And too, the customers that are the <i>most</i> trouble, are the ones that hire some whacko that thinks she is some hot interior designer. Next thing ya know you're trying to make something for them that you know durn good and well it's going to look stupid. I'll design my <i>own</i> kitchen and let my wife pick the colors/patterns and accessories thank you very much. Llama,

Being in the cabinet design business I know exactly what you mean. I’ve seen so many “designers” that put together such a hodgepodge of junk, that I’ll never hire one. And too, the customers that are the most trouble, are the ones that hire some whacko that thinks she is some hot interior designer. Next thing ya know you’re trying to make something for them that you know durn good and well it’s going to look stupid.

I’ll design my own kitchen and let my wife pick the colors/patterns and accessories thank you very much.

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]]> By: Kyle A http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/comment-page-1/#comment-299664 Kyle A Wed, 07 May 2008 21:22:45 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/#comment-299664 Developing taste is first a matter of exposure to what is excellent in a particular category. It is mostly a matter of discernment. The person who is exposed to many things that are excellent, things that are mediocre, and things that are bad, will develop a sense of which is which. I was a music major for three years and ended my undergraduate career as an English major. Most of my professors in both departments reminded us often that one of the things they were helping us acquire was good taste. You can't really teach it, but you can teach principles of art that can guide you, and as I said you can expose yourself to so much creative work that it becomes clear how a particular work ranks in comparison to other work. Developing taste is first a matter of exposure to what is excellent in a particular category. It is mostly a matter of discernment. The person who is exposed to many things that are excellent, things that are mediocre, and things that are bad, will develop a sense of which is which.

I was a music major for three years and ended my undergraduate career as an English major. Most of my professors in both departments reminded us often that one of the things they were helping us acquire was good taste. You can’t really teach it, but you can teach principles of art that can guide you, and as I said you can expose yourself to so much creative work that it becomes clear how a particular work ranks in comparison to other work.

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]]> By: llama http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/comment-page-1/#comment-299660 llama Wed, 07 May 2008 21:13:22 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/#comment-299660 #4 Luke, Well, shopping at WalMart, Target, World Market or Pier 1 doesn't count as being in an art department for you lefties either :-) #6 TL, I couldn't agree more. My sister in law was an interior designer. She came to Phoenix to help my wife decorate the house several times - all of them expensive disasters. One time she took down all of my paintings, put them in my closet and then drank a whole bottle of Remy Martin I had been saving - that ws it :-) She was upset that I never hired her to do any of my interior design work over the years. The reason I didn't hire her was because she was a lousy interior designer, had no taste, couldn't design her way out of brown paper bag and I had clients that I didn't want mad at me - even though she was supposedly well trained. My dumb Doxie Dog could do a better job. How she made a living at it all those years is beyond me but I saw a lot of her work and it is a miracle someone didn't kill her for the worst of it. #4 Luke,

Well, shopping at WalMart, Target, World Market or Pier 1 doesn’t count as being in an art department for you lefties either :-)

#6 TL, I couldn’t agree more. My sister in law was an interior designer. She came to Phoenix to help my wife decorate the house several times – all of them expensive disasters. One time she took down all of my paintings, put them in my closet and then drank a whole bottle of Remy Martin I had been saving – that ws it :-)

She was upset that I never hired her to do any of my interior design work over the years. The reason I didn’t hire her was because she was a lousy interior designer, had no taste, couldn’t design her way out of brown paper bag and I had clients that I didn’t want mad at me – even though she was supposedly well trained. My dumb Doxie Dog could do a better job.

How she made a living at it all those years is beyond me but I saw a lot of her work and it is a miracle someone didn’t kill her for the worst of it.

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]]> By: TL http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/comment-page-1/#comment-299576 TL Wed, 07 May 2008 17:36:56 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/#comment-299576 I am an interior designer, and trust me, there is such thing as having bad taste! There is good design and there is bad design. That said, someone with different tastes may be using the foundation of good design, and I still may not like it. Some people have no care about their homes and couldn't care less about the fundamentals of design. To each their own. It's like art - not everyone will like every piece, but there is art that follows basic fundamentals, and art that is simply trying too hard to be different. I am an interior designer, and trust me, there is such thing as having bad taste! There is good design and there is bad design. That said, someone with different tastes may be using the foundation of good design, and I still may not like it. Some people have no care about their homes and couldn’t care less about the fundamentals of design. To each their own.

It’s like art – not everyone will like every piece, but there is art that follows basic fundamentals, and art that is simply trying too hard to be different.

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]]> By: kimberly http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/comment-page-1/#comment-299562 kimberly Wed, 07 May 2008 17:19:58 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/#comment-299562 I have been in an English department, Luke, so I'm very aware of how subjective opinions can be and how much influence bad taste really does have on academica today. Sure, the study of art/literature has a degree of subjectivity in it, but art/english students should learn what makes good art and not allowed to elevate their own preferences to the level of good art. I have been in an English department, Luke, so I’m very aware of how subjective opinions can be and how much influence bad taste really does have on academica today.

Sure, the study of art/literature has a degree of subjectivity in it, but art/english students should learn what makes good art and not allowed to elevate their own preferences to the level of good art.

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]]> By: Luke http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/comment-page-1/#comment-299521 Luke Wed, 07 May 2008 15:48:28 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/#comment-299521 This is not an uncommon opinion. I think you people have never been in an art department. This is not an uncommon opinion. I think you people have never been in an art department.

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]]> By: kimberly http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/comment-page-1/#comment-299513 kimberly Wed, 07 May 2008 15:28:59 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/#comment-299513 Excuse me. "literature." :) Excuse me. “literature.” :)

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]]> By: kimberly http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/comment-page-1/#comment-299512 kimberly Wed, 07 May 2008 15:28:24 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/#comment-299512 Too many profs (esp in literatre) teach TO taste instead of TEACHING taste. Too many profs (esp in literatre) teach TO taste instead of TEACHING taste.

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]]> By: Make it Man http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/comment-page-1/#comment-299506 Make it Man Wed, 07 May 2008 15:18:52 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/07/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-teacher-of-the-beholder/#comment-299506 Why teach art or literature if there's no such thing? Might as well say there's no such thing as love... Why teach art or literature if there’s no such thing?

Might as well say there’s no such thing as love…

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