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	<title>Comments on: The end of college</title>
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		<title>By: JacquelineG</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/comment-page-1/#comment-302944</link>
		<dc:creator>JacquelineG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 00:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sorry about the double post!  My computer was acting up on me yesterday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about the double post!  My computer was acting up on me yesterday.
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=302944', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
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		<title>By: historymaker20</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/comment-page-1/#comment-302943</link>
		<dc:creator>historymaker20</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 00:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sorry about the double post.  My computer was acting up on me yesterday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about the double post.  My computer was acting up on me yesterday.
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=302943', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
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		<title>By: JacquelineG</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/comment-page-1/#comment-302821</link>
		<dc:creator>JacquelineG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 08:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/#comment-302821</guid>
		<description>I is a college student.

Just kidding.  Well, I am a college student, but I apologize for the intentionally incorrect grammar and bad joke.  Currently I am attending a small, liberal arts college in the Midwest, though I&#039;m having an awfully difficult time deciding upon my major.  My biggest obstacle is that I enjoy and do well in all of my classes.  Thus, I hate the thought of choosing just one discipline to study.

Anyways, from early on, my parents instilled in me a love for knowledge.  They nurtured my interests, encouraged me to pursue my passions, and sat me under the tutelage of great teachers...Shakespeare, Lincoln, Newton, etc.  I was permitted to explore and discover.  Cooking was a new way to learn fractions.  Interviews with Grandpa served as history lessons.  Now, at twenty years old, I am quite grateful that I like to learn.

However, I feel that I am a strange phenomenon among my fellow classmates.  Forgive a few generalizations: history papers are put aside until the night before or the morning of, discussions in philosophy are shallow because no one actually read &quot;The Cave&quot; before coming to class, and speeches are absolutely pathetic ramblings, peppered with a plethora of &quot;like&quot;s and &quot;um&quot;s.  It&#039;s frustrating.

But it&#039;s also to be expected.  College is just an extension of high school which was an extension of junior high which was an extension of elementary school.  School is not about education and its significance does not lie in the precious knowledge retained afterwards.  You go because it&#039;s just one more step to climb.  Get a degree, and then supposedly get a better job.  Most students I know are only concerned with passing, not doing well.  Screw excellence; just don&#039;t suck.  Perhaps it doesn&#039;t help that for many, their parents are paying the price.  When tuition costs close to twenty thousand dollars a year and I&#039;M the one who has to dish it out, my time here becomes far more valuable.  Some students would rather not go at all, but do only because they&#039;re given a free ride.

I can also empathize with my professors.  Most are passionate about their field, but find it disheartening to teach students who could care less about adolescent development or the theatres of Greece.  Sometimes the material is difficult to grasp, even for me, but certainly one is not without adequate resources.  

For example, my ENG 101 class was brimful of basic writing tips that I recalled from high school.  My professor was readily available by phone, e-mail, office hours, or after/before class.  Writing tutors would read and critique my papers if I wanted.  Opportunities for learning (and help for those who need it) are there.  But not many take advantage.

When all students care about is not failing (and some, not even that), professors must become just the slightest bit discouraged.  There is so much to know!  So much to learn!  So much to discuss and analyze!  How sad to see so many young people who are too busy with other things.

It&#039;s not all their fault, though.  A love for learning must be taught right away, early in life.  If a pattern of &quot;moving up grade levels&quot; is established in kindergarten, one can hardly expect a college student to suddenly possess a different mindset about information.  I see the problem.  But I&#039;m not quite as sure about how to fix it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I is a college student.</p>
<p>Just kidding.  Well, I am a college student, but I apologize for the intentionally incorrect grammar and bad joke.  Currently I am attending a small, liberal arts college in the Midwest, though I&#8217;m having an awfully difficult time deciding upon my major.  My biggest obstacle is that I enjoy and do well in all of my classes.  Thus, I hate the thought of choosing just one discipline to study.</p>
<p>Anyways, from early on, my parents instilled in me a love for knowledge.  They nurtured my interests, encouraged me to pursue my passions, and sat me under the tutelage of great teachers&#8230;Shakespeare, Lincoln, Newton, etc.  I was permitted to explore and discover.  Cooking was a new way to learn fractions.  Interviews with Grandpa served as history lessons.  Now, at twenty years old, I am quite grateful that I like to learn.</p>
<p>However, I feel that I am a strange phenomenon among my fellow classmates.  Forgive a few generalizations: history papers are put aside until the night before or the morning of, discussions in philosophy are shallow because no one actually read &#8220;The Cave&#8221; before coming to class, and speeches are absolutely pathetic ramblings, peppered with a plethora of &#8220;like&#8221;s and &#8220;um&#8221;s.  It&#8217;s frustrating.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s also to be expected.  College is just an extension of high school which was an extension of junior high which was an extension of elementary school.  School is not about education and its significance does not lie in the precious knowledge retained afterwards.  You go because it&#8217;s just one more step to climb.  Get a degree, and then supposedly get a better job.  Most students I know are only concerned with passing, not doing well.  Screw excellence; just don&#8217;t suck.  Perhaps it doesn&#8217;t help that for many, their parents are paying the price.  When tuition costs close to twenty thousand dollars a year and I&#8217;M the one who has to dish it out, my time here becomes far more valuable.  Some students would rather not go at all, but do only because they&#8217;re given a free ride.</p>
<p>I can also empathize with my professors.  Most are passionate about their field, but find it disheartening to teach students who could care less about adolescent development or the theatres of Greece.  Sometimes the material is difficult to grasp, even for me, but certainly one is not without adequate resources.  </p>
<p>For example, my ENG 101 class was brimful of basic writing tips that I recalled from high school.  My professor was readily available by phone, e-mail, office hours, or after/before class.  Writing tutors would read and critique my papers if I wanted.  Opportunities for learning (and help for those who need it) are there.  But not many take advantage.</p>
<p>When all students care about is not failing (and some, not even that), professors must become just the slightest bit discouraged.  There is so much to know!  So much to learn!  So much to discuss and analyze!  How sad to see so many young people who are too busy with other things.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not all their fault, though.  A love for learning must be taught right away, early in life.  If a pattern of &#8220;moving up grade levels&#8221; is established in kindergarten, one can hardly expect a college student to suddenly possess a different mindset about information.  I see the problem.  But I&#8217;m not quite as sure about how to fix it.
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=302821', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
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		<title>By: historymaker20</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/comment-page-1/#comment-302817</link>
		<dc:creator>historymaker20</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 08:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/#comment-302817</guid>
		<description>I is a college student.

Just kidding.  Well, I am a college student, but I apologize for the intentionally bad grammar and a bad joke.  Currently I am attending a small, liberal arts college in the Midwest, though I&#039;m having an awfully difficult time deciding upon my major.  My biggest obstacle is that I enjoy and do well in all of my classes.  Thus, I hate the thought of choosing just one discipline to study.

Anyways, from early on, my parents instilled in me a love for knowledge.  They nurtured my interests, encouraged me to pursue my passions, and sat me under the tutelage of great teachers...Shakespeare, Lincoln, Newton, etc.  I was permitted to explore and discover.  Cooking was a new way to learn fractions.  Interviews with Grandpa served as history lessons.  Now, at twenty years old, I am quite grateful that I like to learn.

However, I feel that I am a strange phenomenon among my fellow classmates.  Forgive a few generalizations: history papers are put aside until the night before or the morning of, discussions in philosophy are shallow because no one actually read &quot;The Cave&quot; before coming to class, and speeches are absolutely pathetic ramblings, peppered with a plethora of &quot;like&quot;s and &quot;um&quot;s.  It&#039;s frustrating.

But it&#039;s also to be expected.  College is just an extension of high school which was an extension of junior high which was an extension of elementary school.  School is not about education and its significance does not lie in the precious knowledge retained afterwards.  You go because it&#039;s just one more step to climb.  Get a degree, and then supposedly get a better job.  Most students I know are only concerned with passing, not doing well.  Screw excellence; just don&#039;t suck.  Perhaps it doesn&#039;t help that for many, their parents are paying the price.  When tuition costs close to twenty thousand dollars a year and I&#039;M the one who has to dish it out, my time here becomes far more valuable.  Some students would rather not go at all, but do only because they&#039;re given a free ride.

I can also empathize with my professors.  Most are passionate about their field, but find it disheartening to teach students who could care less about adolescent development or the theatres of Greece.  Sometimes the material is difficult to grasp, even for me, but certainly one is not without adequate resources.  

For example, my ENG 101 class was brimful of basic writing tips that I recalled from high school.  My professor was readily available by phone, e-mail, office hours, or after/before class.  Writing tutors would read and critique my papers if I wanted.  Opportunities for learning (and help for those who need it) are there.  But not many take advantage.

When all students care about is not failing (and some, not even that), professors must become just the slightest bit discouraged.  There is so much to know!  So much to learn!  So much to discuss and analyze!  How sad to see so many young people who are too busy with other things.

It&#039;s not all their fault, though.  A love for learning must be taught right away, early in life.  If a pattern of &quot;moving up grade levels&quot; is established in kindergarten, one can hardly expect a college student to suddenly possess a different mindset about information.  I see the problem.  But I&#039;m not quite as sure about how to fix it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I is a college student.</p>
<p>Just kidding.  Well, I am a college student, but I apologize for the intentionally bad grammar and a bad joke.  Currently I am attending a small, liberal arts college in the Midwest, though I&#8217;m having an awfully difficult time deciding upon my major.  My biggest obstacle is that I enjoy and do well in all of my classes.  Thus, I hate the thought of choosing just one discipline to study.</p>
<p>Anyways, from early on, my parents instilled in me a love for knowledge.  They nurtured my interests, encouraged me to pursue my passions, and sat me under the tutelage of great teachers&#8230;Shakespeare, Lincoln, Newton, etc.  I was permitted to explore and discover.  Cooking was a new way to learn fractions.  Interviews with Grandpa served as history lessons.  Now, at twenty years old, I am quite grateful that I like to learn.</p>
<p>However, I feel that I am a strange phenomenon among my fellow classmates.  Forgive a few generalizations: history papers are put aside until the night before or the morning of, discussions in philosophy are shallow because no one actually read &#8220;The Cave&#8221; before coming to class, and speeches are absolutely pathetic ramblings, peppered with a plethora of &#8220;like&#8221;s and &#8220;um&#8221;s.  It&#8217;s frustrating.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s also to be expected.  College is just an extension of high school which was an extension of junior high which was an extension of elementary school.  School is not about education and its significance does not lie in the precious knowledge retained afterwards.  You go because it&#8217;s just one more step to climb.  Get a degree, and then supposedly get a better job.  Most students I know are only concerned with passing, not doing well.  Screw excellence; just don&#8217;t suck.  Perhaps it doesn&#8217;t help that for many, their parents are paying the price.  When tuition costs close to twenty thousand dollars a year and I&#8217;M the one who has to dish it out, my time here becomes far more valuable.  Some students would rather not go at all, but do only because they&#8217;re given a free ride.</p>
<p>I can also empathize with my professors.  Most are passionate about their field, but find it disheartening to teach students who could care less about adolescent development or the theatres of Greece.  Sometimes the material is difficult to grasp, even for me, but certainly one is not without adequate resources.  </p>
<p>For example, my ENG 101 class was brimful of basic writing tips that I recalled from high school.  My professor was readily available by phone, e-mail, office hours, or after/before class.  Writing tutors would read and critique my papers if I wanted.  Opportunities for learning (and help for those who need it) are there.  But not many take advantage.</p>
<p>When all students care about is not failing (and some, not even that), professors must become just the slightest bit discouraged.  There is so much to know!  So much to learn!  So much to discuss and analyze!  How sad to see so many young people who are too busy with other things.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not all their fault, though.  A love for learning must be taught right away, early in life.  If a pattern of &#8220;moving up grade levels&#8221; is established in kindergarten, one can hardly expect a college student to suddenly possess a different mindset about information.  I see the problem.  But I&#8217;m not quite as sure about how to fix it.
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=302817', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
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		<title>By: greg</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/comment-page-1/#comment-302813</link>
		<dc:creator>greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 07:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/#comment-302813</guid>
		<description>Revolution in purpose is what it will take.  What is the purpose of college?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Revolution in purpose is what it will take.  What is the purpose of college?
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=302813', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
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		<title>By: Jon Rowe</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/comment-page-1/#comment-302514</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Rowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 21:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/#comment-302514</guid>
		<description>Godlumps.

Thanks.  That thing is priceless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Godlumps.</p>
<p>Thanks.  That thing is priceless.
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=302514', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
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		<title>By: Jon Rowe</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/comment-page-1/#comment-302513</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Rowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 21:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/#comment-302513</guid>
		<description>The law of contracts has not changed in 9 years. 

I&#039;d imagine I&#039;m an a) better teacher after 9 years of living and learning and b) somewhat harder in my standards as experience tends to &quot;toughen&quot; us teachers.

I&#039;m still teaching them the same law of offer and acceptance.  But whereas I used to sit down behind my desk the first year of teaching, now I tend to run around and jump on desks.

I feel kind of like my favorite singer Steve Walsh from Kansas.  The first few years he sat down and sang because he liked to use the foot pedals of his organ.  Then he started standing up and singing while playing keyboards and running around on stage.

But yes, these are for the most part, the same rules (i.e., &quot;education&quot;) unless those rules have changed (which they have in the one chapter of Con. Law that we teach in Bus. Law, but not in the majority of chapters which deal with common law contracts), hopefully better put as time goes on.

But believe me, with all the time I spend on law related websites like Volokh and Balkinization, I have no problem staying current with changes in the law.

Why do I feel like I&#039;m being subjected to a harsh job interview?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The law of contracts has not changed in 9 years. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d imagine I&#8217;m an a) better teacher after 9 years of living and learning and b) somewhat harder in my standards as experience tends to &#8220;toughen&#8221; us teachers.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still teaching them the same law of offer and acceptance.  But whereas I used to sit down behind my desk the first year of teaching, now I tend to run around and jump on desks.</p>
<p>I feel kind of like my favorite singer Steve Walsh from Kansas.  The first few years he sat down and sang because he liked to use the foot pedals of his organ.  Then he started standing up and singing while playing keyboards and running around on stage.</p>
<p>But yes, these are for the most part, the same rules (i.e., &#8220;education&#8221;) unless those rules have changed (which they have in the one chapter of Con. Law that we teach in Bus. Law, but not in the majority of chapters which deal with common law contracts), hopefully better put as time goes on.</p>
<p>But believe me, with all the time I spend on law related websites like Volokh and Balkinization, I have no problem staying current with changes in the law.</p>
<p>Why do I feel like I&#8217;m being subjected to a harsh job interview?
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=302513', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
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		<title>By: GodLumps</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/comment-page-1/#comment-302368</link>
		<dc:creator>GodLumps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 17:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/#comment-302368</guid>
		<description>Jon rowe-I like you blog spot video of O&#039;Reilly going insane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon rowe-I like you blog spot video of O&#8217;Reilly going insane.
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=302368', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
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		<title>By: RonD</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/comment-page-1/#comment-302332</link>
		<dc:creator>RonD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 16:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/#comment-302332</guid>
		<description>#20 &#8212; &quot; You find the middle and teach to it.&quot;

#36 &#8212; &quot;No you don&#8217;t read me correctly. I don&#8217;t change my standards and I don&#8217;t have to because the general level of student ability hasn&#8217;t changed in the 9 years that I have been teaching.&quot;

#37 &#8212; &quot;As I noted, I teach at different levels. I sometimes have to struggle not to get too intellectual or else I&#8217;ll &#8220;lose&#8221; many of the students, which happens when I use big words which I often define for them when I use them.&quot;

I guess it&#039;s just me.  You obviously are a rock solidly consistent teacher and a student you taught 9 years ago got the same message and education as the ones 5, 3, and 2 years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#20 &#8212; &#8221; You find the middle and teach to it.&#8221;</p>
<p>#36 &#8212; &#8220;No you don&#8217;t read me correctly. I don&#8217;t change my standards and I don&#8217;t have to because the general level of student ability hasn&#8217;t changed in the 9 years that I have been teaching.&#8221;</p>
<p>#37 &#8212; &#8220;As I noted, I teach at different levels. I sometimes have to struggle not to get too intellectual or else I&#8217;ll &#8220;lose&#8221; many of the students, which happens when I use big words which I often define for them when I use them.&#8221;</p>
<p>I guess it&#8217;s just me.  You obviously are a rock solidly consistent teacher and a student you taught 9 years ago got the same message and education as the ones 5, 3, and 2 years ago.
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=302332', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
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		<title>By: Jon Rowe</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/comment-page-1/#comment-302104</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Rowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 20:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/05/14/the-end-of-college/#comment-302104</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And what about the serious student, capable of meeting the standard you should be teaching, but must settle for a diminished version? Are they not cheated?&lt;/i&gt;

As I noted, I teach at different levels.  I sometimes have to struggle not to get too intellectual or else I&#039;ll &quot;lose&quot; many of the students, which happens when I use big words which I often define for them when I use them.  The smart ones are never bored by the material I present (in terms of its lack of complexity or that it does not challenge; believe me, it&#039;s impossible to teach the law of contracts and not have it be a challenge to even bright students; some might be bored because they just don&#039;t like the material, i.e., they don&#039;t like learning about contracts).  I try to make the tests fair enough so that most of the class won&#039;t fail or gets in the B &amp; C range (i.e., I don&#039;t load every single question on the test with the hardest, most challenging contractual material which would guarantee a high % of the students flunking out; you have a fair spread of questions of varying degrees of difficulty).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And what about the serious student, capable of meeting the standard you should be teaching, but must settle for a diminished version? Are they not cheated?</i></p>
<p>As I noted, I teach at different levels.  I sometimes have to struggle not to get too intellectual or else I&#8217;ll &#8220;lose&#8221; many of the students, which happens when I use big words which I often define for them when I use them.  The smart ones are never bored by the material I present (in terms of its lack of complexity or that it does not challenge; believe me, it&#8217;s impossible to teach the law of contracts and not have it be a challenge to even bright students; some might be bored because they just don&#8217;t like the material, i.e., they don&#8217;t like learning about contracts).  I try to make the tests fair enough so that most of the class won&#8217;t fail or gets in the B &amp; C range (i.e., I don&#8217;t load every single question on the test with the hardest, most challenging contractual material which would guarantee a high % of the students flunking out; you have a fair spread of questions of varying degrees of difficulty).
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