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McCain and Hagee part ways
Republican presidential nominee John McCain has rejected the endorsement of Texas pastor John Hagee. Meanwhile, Hagee has withdrawn his endorsement of McCain. These latest developments occurred after audio surfaced in which Hagee said God sent Adolf Hitler to help Jews reach the promised land.
Topic: Campaign 2008, WorldMagBlog
Keywords: John Hagee, John-McCain
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back to top44 Comments to “McCain and Hagee part ways”
It is a shame that Hagee wasn’t born Jewish so God would have sent Hitler down to take care of him and usher him into heaven because his entry through the Pearly Gates are iffy at best as it is.
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I’d part ways with Hagee, too. Rapidly. This really stunned me inasmuch as I’ve always seen Hitler as an agent of Satan, not God.
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I don’t know what context Hagee was speaking in, but to say that God sent Hitler as a deliverer is ludicrous. Maybe Hagee was trying to explain the frequent genocides against the Jews and screwed it all up. Or maybe he is an idiot.
God did send the Egyptians who wanted to kill all the Jews, but it was to demonstrate God’s power of deliverance into the Promised Land.
It is also true that some of the major events in God’s plan were proceeded by a genocide. But I believe each of these was Satan’s attempt to stop God’s plan.
For example,
- 1571BC Pharaoh orders all Hebrew boys drowned at the time of Moses who would deliver his people into the Promised Land, as foretold in Gen 15:13,14.
- 470BC Haman plots to kill all the Jews just prior to the decree to return Jews to the Promised Land and the beginning of the countdown to the Messiah, foretold in Daniel 9:25
- 4BC Herod orders Hebrew babies destroyed at the time of the Messiah who would deliver his people to the Promised Land, i.e. the Kingdom of Heaven.
- 1942 Hitler’s final solution attempts to wipe out all the Jews just prior to their return to the Promised Land.
In each case, there was a major genocide just prior to delivering the Jews into the Promised Land. That does not mean God caused it. These tragedies were pure evil. Hagee is very confused.
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Apparently many Evangelical Christians agree with Hagee.
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Hagee is a fringe character whom McCain is well rid of. McCain had a tangential political relation with him that proved to be an intolerable burden. He had nothing like Obama’s twenty-year relationship with Wright, a racist and Marxist.
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$. Why do you say that?
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6. was addressed to Godlumps
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My question to folks is, is this theme echoed in any of Hagee’s best-selling/very visible books of eschatology (the kind easily seen in WalMart), or is it simply a remark in a long-ago sermon seized upon by the MSM?
If it’s a major theme why hasn’t it been remarked on before? And if not, why not let Hagee clarify, as he’s done with the Catholics?
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Hagee reminds me of what the late Sam Kinison (God rest his soul; he’s making God laugh in Heaven) would have been like had he remained an evangelical preacher.
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xion: You apparently disapprove of genocide as being “the devils work”. I am curious if you approve of a god’s actions in killing every living human except a couple in the flood.
McCain has now distanced himself from Hagee (whose statements he called “crazy”) and Parsley after calling Falwell and Robertson “agents of intolerance”. Parsley’s sin was calling Islam a religion of intolerance, a sentiment which seems fairly prevalent on this board.
McCain seems to making quite a career of bashing evangelical leaders. I wonder who’s next on his list. And whether many/any will have the fortitude to endorse him. There really aren’t that many out there, are there? Where’s Pastor Ted when we really need him?
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#6- Oh I don’t know why I would think that :roll eyes:
John Hagee: (April 12, 1940) is the founder and senior pastor of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, a non-denominational evangelical church with more than 19,000 active members. [1] John Hagee is CEO at his non-profit corporation, Global Evangelism Television (GETV).
Hagee is the President and CEO of John Hagee Ministries, which telecasts his national radio and television ministry carried in the United States on 160 TV stations, 50 radio stations and eight networks, including The Inspiration Network (INSP) and Trinity Broadcasting Network. The ministries can be seen and heard weekly in 99 million homes. John Hagee Ministries is in Canada on the Miracle Channel and CTS and can be seen in Africa, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and is in most third world nations.[2]
He is also the president and CEO of Global Evangelism Television, which telecasts his radio and television ministry. Hagee helped found Christians United for Israel on February 7, 2006 as a “Christian AIPAC” lobbying Congress to support Israel.[3] He has incurred some controversy for his fundamentalist beliefs and comments regarding Nazism, Catholicism, Islam, homosexuality, women, blacks, and hurricane Katrina. [4]
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Lumps, can we assume you don’t like Hagee ?
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Tori-I don’t know Hagee. Do you like Hagee?
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Did anyone see McCain flip-flop the gay marriage issue on the Ellen show today?
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Of course this is the same McCain who cheated on his first wife with a rich young heiress (his current wife) – after his first wife stood by him while he was a POW.
Now he wants to talk about the sanctity of marriage. He’s like a tuna on the deck of a fishing boat. Flip Flop wherever the waves take him.
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Why pastors of all sorts (but evangelical preachers especially) feel the need to interpret every world event “in the light of prophecy” I’ll never quite understand.
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Mickey: Republican presidential nominee John McCain has rejected the endorsement of Texas pastor John Hagee. Meanwhile, Hagee has withdrawn his endorsement of McCain.
Frank: “You can’t fire me! I quit!”
I guess Hagee’s back to being an “agent of intolerance” again, eh, Juan?
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DR (16): Why pastors of all sorts (but evangelical preachers especially) feel the need to interpret every world event “in the light of prophecy” I’ll never quite understand.
Frank: Well, the pre-trib pre-mil ones do, at least.
They have an eschatological view in which a significant number events foretold in OT and NT prophecy still remain in the future. Hence the tendency to read the Scriptures with one eye on the newspapers.
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I can understand what Frank is saying in #18. However, when preachers go beyond the biblical admonition to “preach the Word” and jump into the arena of politics (Hagee and Wright), they do themselves and their listeners a disservice.
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I had never heard of Hagee before this campaign. From what I have learned, however, the general thrust of his teaching seems to place him with those dispensatinalists who support Israel for reasons they consider very theological (presuming that God will bless all who bless the Jews and God will curse all those who curse the Jews).
I disagree with that theology (or at least the way it is politically applied todfay) but I do support Israel’s right to exist simply for reasons of justice and decency. And I respect Israel’s right to defend herself agaisnt holocaust denying maniacs and jihadist terrorists.
But Hagee is a big supporter of Israel. This particular quote seems out of the blue and ill-worded. But it’s thrust seems to be that Hagee thinks that God somehow turned the evil deeds of Hitler, clouded with racist hatred, into a consequence with a silver lining, namely that the Jews now have a homeland in the “promised land.” (actually, it is historically simplistic to cite Hitler as a significant unintended factor in the return of the Jews to Israel, although the holocaust was cited by some Jews as a big reason they should be allowed to return to Israel as a nation).
I don’t share Hagee’s theology in this regard but I do know that he, in general, applies this theology to support any Jewish cause he can.
Thus, the media are off-base and shallow to report this recently discovered line as “anti-Jewish.” It is horribly worded but it was not intended to be anti-Jewish. Everything else that Hagee says contradicts that interpretation.
But the media are not about being fair-minded or finding the big picture. We have to find that for ourselves.
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Jole is right. McCain should have stood by him. With friends like John McSame who needs enemies.
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I am not a dispensationalist and differ from Hagee’s eschatology.
However, in context, he was saying God used Hitler’s evil intentions to orchestrate a greater good, just as He used the persecution of the early church in Acts that included the beheading of the apostle James to scatter beleievers from Jerusalem so that the remote parts of the world could be evangelized, or the crucifixion of Christ to bring about our redemption, without excusing the perpetrators for their sin.
In no way was Hitler seen by Hagee as anything less than an evil man, morally culpable for his own sins. His point seems to be that God can subvert the most evil acts to bring about His own good purposes, in Hagee’s eschatology, setting the stage for the return of Christ.
Disagree with his hermeneutic if you must, as i do, but it is dishonest to make Hagee an apologist for Nazi evil.
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JM: dispensatinalists
Didn’t you mean dispensatanalists?
(Sorry, the devil made me do that)
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Now McSame through Pastor Rod Parsley under the bus.
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#10 Regarding the flood:
I approve of God patiently waiting until there was only one righteous man left on earth. God really hoped man would turn from his wicked ways and gave him lots of time to get it right.
I approve of God sending preachers out to warn the people in advance of the flood (see Jude). This was not an unexpected judgment.
I approve of God applying the death penalty to murderers who boast in their deeds (see Gen. 4:24). These were not nice people like you killed, but a world of murderers.
I approve of God being “sorry” that this was the only course He could take to put righteousness back on track. It was not done in anger or a fit, like a petulant child throwing a toy across the room.
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They have an eschatological view in which a significant number events foretold in OT and NT prophecy still remain in the future. Hence the tendency to read the Scriptures with one eye on the newspapers.
Even so, if any cared to look, they’d see that you can take just about any year since the crucifixion and, select the right current events, and “prophecy is being fulfilled before our eyes.” You’d think people would have learned by now.
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I agree with Joel Mark at #20.
Oh, wait, I am Joel Mark.
Okay, I agree with Ken at #22! He said it better.
Whew!
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JOEL MARK: But its thrust seems to be that Hagee thinks that God somehow turned the evil deeds of Hitler, clouded with racist hatred, into a consequence with a silver lining, namely that the Jews now have a homeland in the “promised land.”
KEN: God used Hitler’s evil intentions to orchestrate a greater good
Not found here is Hagee’s own language. Hitler was a hunter, the hound whom God sent to scare somnolent Jews like sheep in flight across wide waters to forgotten Palestine, their dominion of blood. Sublime terrorism.
PETER LEAVITT: McCain had a tangential political relation with him
McCain sought him out and stuck by him. “Tangental” does not describe the historic pattern of compulsory relations between moderate Republican politicians and fevered right wingers from the Birchers and Cubans to folks like Hagee and Parsley.
ARCADIA: I wonder who’s next on his list. Dobson?
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Arcadia #10 I know you’re not really interested in my answer, but you asked …
In short, I approve of everything God does.
The reason I would say that the particular genocides I outlined were not God’s doing is because they appear to be an attempt to thwart his plan. Why would he hinder himself.
Ultimately (and here I will lose you) God has ordained all things that come to pass. For example, he allowed Satan to afflict Job. He ordained it, but did not cause Job’s suffering.
I don’t know what Hagee said exactly (can’t find the quote). And it does not matter what one thinks about dispensationalism. It is a historical fact that several times in history, the Jews were slaughtered (or attempted in the case of Haman) just prior to a major event regarding the Promised Land.
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Scroop, you mentioned “Hagee’s own language.” Do you have a quote to share? If so, use quotation marks. Your very next words were not in quotes. Were you using your own language to try to pass it off as Hagee’s own language?
Quotes, by definition, take words out of context. Sometimes, the actual context makes the meaning even worse. But whatever the quote or context, I was simply trying to explain the overall thrust of Hagee’s stance toward the Jews and God’s hand in their plight. He is highly supportive, even uncritically supportive (in my view) of Isareal and the Jews.
So just take that into consideration when assessing the meaning of his words.
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There are some written Jewish prayers that recognize God’s sovereign hand in the holocaust. Such prayers are written with utter disdain and revulsion for the holocaust, but they are taking stock in the big-picture faith-based notion that God has a plan that is much larger than our understanding and His hand is in all things.
But this is an issue because the left (to its credit) is terribly embarassed by Rev. Jeremiah Wright, and (to its discredit) they need to prop up a pseudo counterpart for Wright on the right.
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JOEL MARK: Were you using your own language to try to pass it off as Hagee’s own language?
Indirectly, yes. I was using my own language to characterize — and pejorate — Hagee’s language, but not to cause perceptive readers to think that I was transcribing his words. I take the liberty of burlesquing your words too, from time to time. It’s a way of making a point which backfires if it’s too far off the mark. In regard to the present topic, I’d just ask you consider that the color I gave to Hagee’s remarks compliment the color Hagee gave to Jeremiah’s text.
JOHN HAGEE said: “And they the hunters should hunt them,” that will be the Jews. “From every mountain and from every hill and from out of the holes of the rocks.” If that doesn’t describe what Hitler did in the holocaust you can’t see that. Theodore Hertzel is the father of Zionism. He was a Jew who at the turn of the 19th century said, this land is our land, God wants us to live there. So he went to the Jews of Europe and said “I want you to come and join me in the land of Israel.” So few went that Hertzel went into depression. Those who came founded Israel; those who did not went through the hell of the holocaust. Then god sent a hunter. A hunter is someone with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. And the Bible says — Jeremiah writing — “They shall hunt them from every mountain and from every hill and from the holes of the rocks,” meaning there’s no place to hide. And that might be offensive to some people but don’t let your heart be offended. I didn’t write it, Jeremiah wrote it. It was the truth and it is the truth. How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said my top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel.
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Joel #31 “There are some written Jewish prayers that recognize God’s sovereign hand in the holocaust.”
That reminds me of Tevia’s prayer in Fiddler on the Roof, “God, next time you choose a people could you maybe choose somebody else?”
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Evangelical Christian and John McCain Endorser John Hagee preached:
“Then god sent a hunter. A hunter is someone with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. And the Bible says — Jeremiah writing — ‘They shall hunt them from every mountain and from every hill and from the holes of the rocks,’ meaning there’s no place to hide. And that might be offensive to some people but don’t let your heart be offended. I didn’t write it, Jeremiah wrote it. It was the truth and it is the truth. How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said my top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel.”
Sick man with a sick God.
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Xion, good connection.
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Ten to fifteen year old tapes exist of my sermons if anyone would like to pour over them trying to find a gaffe or create a controversy. Any insomniacs want to try? I can guarantee a cure!
The problem is, I have not endorsed a candidate, and I never have in my role as a minister.
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Joel, I don’t believe people ever endorse a candidate in their role as a minister unless they want to lose their tax exemption. Not even political tools like the Rev. Billy. Other than the fact we may or may not know your name, there’s not much difference between Joel Mark and any political preacher.
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Amen Brother Scroop.
Preacher Joel-Hagee didn’t make a gaffe. He clearly argued that Hitler was doing God’s work. Read it or listen to it for yourself.
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Scroop Moth wrote; “I don’t believe people ever endorse a candidate in their role as a minister…”
I have seen ad heard it done. Some have lost their tax-exempt status and some have not. But when conservative ministers endorse or back candidates as “private citizens,” the media go after them as “ministers.” Liberal endorsements by ministers and churches normally just get a pass.
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Scroop Moth wrote; “There’s not much difference between Joel Mark and any political preacher.”
If there is one thing I have learned on this blog, it’s that liberals love to make absolutist dogmatic judgmental declarations about topics or people they know nearly nothing about personally. Scroop proves this. And other liberals are embarassigly willing to give them a mindless “amen!”
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I know what you reveal about yourself, JOEL. You portray yourself as a reverend. You advocate here for George W. Most likely, you don’t endorse him from the pulpit — you ain’t dumb — but nobody here would be surprised to learn that your partisan sympathies were known to your congregation. That doesn’t put much difference between you and more famous preachers who are politically engaged.
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Scroop Moth, you know little to nothing personally or essentially about me. You don’t know my motives, my life history, my friends, my demeaner, my family, my experiences, my smile, my handshake, my looks, my soul or anything else that would give you grounds to judge me or compare me so glibly with other preachers you ALSO don’t know.
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JOEL, instead of refuting reasonable assertions, you insinuate dishonesty and/or ignorance, and force me into these tiresome complaints that “I didn’t say what you claim I have no basis for knowing.” No matter whom you exchange comments with, Joel, your subject always seems to be the wording of previous posts.
Obviously, you’re a partisan man of the cloth. You publish your opinions and judgments and present nothing to distinguish yourself from your demographic niche of partisan and theologically conservative preachers, regardless of the variations in your persons, associations, and histories. I don’t know if you’re grape, orange, or strawberry, JOEL, but I’m pretty sure you’re Kool-Aide.
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Not only that, I refuse your endorsement. So there!
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