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Experts say the threat of domestic terrorism is growing
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Good morning!
Today’s quote is from a Greek philosopher: “We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.”
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Here is the promised coconut cake recipe. It sounds sort of yucky – I never would have made it if I hadn’t had some first. It seems like the cake would turn out very soggy, but it doesn’t. I hate soggy cake and won’t ever even put ice cream on the same plate as cake, for this reason. So trust me, it isn’t soggy.
Bake white cake per mix instructions. Bake in 9x 12 inch pan. Cool slightly, then poke holes throughout. While cooking, mix 1 can sweetened condensed milk and 1 can cream of coconut milk. Pour over cake until absorbed into cake. This takes a while of repeated spooning. Refrigerate. When cool, top with a 12-oz. container of cool whipped topping and 1 bag of sweetened flake coconut (I use the fresh-frozen variety).
And here’s a virtual version to wish a Happy day to michelle, momoffour, chrissy, and Ruth Bell Graham. Please remember to save a piece for Chas
i i i i i i i i i
(‘’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’)
___________
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“First a man makes his habits, then the habits make the man.” Author unknown.
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Whatever one thinks of Rev. Jeremiah Wright, he didn’t envision the deaths of innocent Americans for political gain.
But Newt Gingrich did:
Don’t take my word for it. The story linked above includes the C-SPAN video of Gingrich’s asinine remarks.
But don’t expect them to be repeatedly broadcast by an ouraged Limbaugh or Hannity, or breathlessly written about by an incensed Coulter or Malkin.
Because in all liklihood, they agree with the Newtster.
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Frank, I think I understand what Gingrich meant but you do wish he could have stated it differently.
Did anyone notice the recent death of Hamilton Jordan? He was the guru who served Carter in a way similar to Carville or Rove. Jordan saw how in the post-McGovern era Democrats could regain the White House. Alas, though he was adept at winning elections, Mr Jordan was inept at actually forming and running a govt once the ballot totals were in.
He had numerous bouts with cancer. I was surprised Ham was still alive. RIP aged 63.
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Re #3
Frank: I think John Mohammed was a loopy nutcase who cloaked himself in the trappings of Islam. It did seem a bit nutty that a supposed homeless guy and his protege, Lee Boyd Malvo, could travel so extensively across the USA.
As far as I know, there was never any investigation to prove just how or whom financed Mr Mohammed’s travels.
What I recall mostly is how the newscasters went to great lengths to avoid saying Mr Mohammed’s chosen last name.
As for additional victims, I think when you factor in the original WTC bombing in 93, the US embassy bombings in Africa, the near sinking of the USS Cole etc etc we probably let the jihadis kill enough Americans. No need to let any other plotters sneak through.
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I can certainly understand what Gingrich was saying.
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Anyone with half a brain can understand what Gingrich was saying.
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Sawgunner,
I think you’re missing the essence of Gingrich’s comments about the significance of the sniper shootings.
He’s not suggesting that they were somehow backed/supported by a jihadi network. He’s saying that, given the terroristic effect of the sniper shootings, he’s surprised that the actual jihadis didn’t exploit that mode of operation.
But the main thrust of his remarks is that it would have been better for … somebody, whether the Bush administration in particular, or the people of the United States in general, had they “allowed an attack to get through just to remind us.”
But Gingrich clearly said the fact that they have been “more successful … at intercepting and stopping bad guys” is “one of the great tragedies of the Bush administration” because there is “less proof … that we’re in danger.”
That kind of thinking — that kind of public statement by the former Speaker of the House — is sick and twisted.
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Mommy,
I presume you have at least half a brain.
So why don’t you explain how the absence of further terror attacks is a “tragedy”?
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Frank: I’d rather watch you explain where Gingich said that the absence of further terror attacks is a tragedy, because he didn’t.
You’re starting to act kooky, Frank, seriously.
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Some of us like kooky.
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You mean no one has tried to guess the quote? Are we getting complacent and thinking that Joe B is going to get all the good stuff?
Plato or Socrates, take your pick. (But of course it is probably one I have never heard of!)
Oh, and Kristan, make mine an iced double mocha. I won’t have a chance to get it until this evening, so a hot one would be cold by then anyway.
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Peter L,
It’s not Plato or Socrates, but I’m sure you’ve heard of Aristotle. (No, I didn’t know it, I used goodsearch.com)
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Mommy, my brain must be missing.
Obviously, if there were an attack that would strengthen the President’s hand (those on the left would call out Reichstag fire). But Gingrich seems to be saying we should have left some through. You know, something minor.
Short of direct complicity (see Reichstag) how does one control the uncontrollable? The fact that Bush and GOP might have benefited short-term from another attack scarcely merits the consideration of an attack. There is the strong whiff of the amoral here.
But equally obviously, the fact that there have not been attacks can derive from a variety of sources. It may be as defenders of the administration claim, that the efforts expended have worked as intended. That is, that there is a one-to-one correspondence between the threat and reaction.
Unfortunately, threats and response rarely correlate so neatly, the situation is far more dynamic. It is equally possible that efforts have had other (unintended) consequences that have disrupted plans.
Another possibility is that we have the wrong analysis completely. Think of this as Global Warming Skeptic approach to terrorism. What if the accepted Administration wisdom is wrong, have they misread the nature of threat entirely? In that case they would have been expending a great deal of effort to counter an event that no longer remains a threat. Barn door, horse, etc.
An itneresting discussion of this aspect was in Sunday’s NY Times
.
Lastly, it could also be hypothesized that if the conditions pre 9/11 had the US mainland as the prime target for protest against the Crusader West , our placing ourselves in the middle of Iraq, gave them a target that was far more convenient. Ironically, the was on AQI removes the AQ incentive to strike at the US. Again a hypothesis.
The point is that any argument of silence necessarily has multiple possible causes for the outcome.
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Okay, so I googled and found out I was wrong a again. But at least I have heard of the Greek philosopher who said it. Should I? Oh why not.
Aristotle!
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And what do you know? While I am out cheating, Pauline beats me to it! (And I would never think of her as a cheater. Watch out, Pauline, you are slipping!)
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#3, “Whatever one thinks of Rev. Jeremiah Wright, he didn’t envision the deaths of innocent Americans for political gain.”
And I don’t think anyone on the right has been dishonest enought to try to make the stupid case that he has.
Yet there are TONS of leftists and other mindless cynics who have indeed been dishonest enough to try to make the hateful case that President Bush and VP Cheney did so envision the deaths of innocent Americans for political gain.
That ONLY shows the extent of the evil in those accuser’s hearts.
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Mommy, Momoffour, Chrissy, and Ruth Bell Graham:
Not to worry, I printed the recipe and Elvera has promised to make my own personal copy. So, forget the virtual slice.
Thanks anyhow.
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Ive often felt that our actual mild responses to the Global War on Terror were inadequate to remind folks that –in the President’s own words–”We are a nation at war.”
A nation at war? Not really? An armed forces at war? Unquestionably. I recall seeing a big coffee table photo book of folks on the homeland during WW II. The prevailing mood of collective sacrifice (”Do without, so he won’t have to!!”) is simply absent from this war. We had much more domesticly produced gasoline in the 40s, yet the President asked for and got rationing. Can you imagine Bush or any current politician doing something of that magnitude today??
In that regard LBJ and Bush are alike. Let’s fight a costly war but let’s not sell the urgency or need for it to the public, let’s try to let the folks back here in the USA not be inconvenienced by it.
How would you react if you were wanded and your luggage was Xrayed not by old TSA geezers but by uniformed USAF security forces or MPs? I think most folks would realize a war was going on mighty quick.
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“The nation is not at war,
The Marines are at war,
The nation is at the mall.”
The Audacity of the Democrats from the Real AJ link.
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Mommy’s brain is fine, Frank. But I am very worried about the brain of whomever posted #, #8, and #9 and used your name.
Gingrich is saying that it is the success of Bush’s policies to protect us that actually mitigates against people’s awareness of why we must stand against those threats. The proof of Bush’s success (that we have not been attacked since 9/11) is “tragicly” being used (or twisted) to undermine his mission, his motives and our perceptions of his performance.
Take his words in context, Frank.
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If our men in uniform are at war, then our nation is at war. At least that is the understanding of a patriot who stands by and with his fellow citizens who are on the ground in harm’s way fighting a just war. We are praying for them hard and often, and as such, we are prayer warriors too!
Wake up! Our nation IS at war.
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“What if the accepted Administration wisdom is wrong, have they misread the nature of threat entirely? In that case they would have been expending a great deal of effort to counter an event that no longer remains a threat.”
Oh yeah. What if? Let’s just ignore the repeated outright statements that the jihadists have made shall we?
Dear Lord, can these people be any more ignorant?
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Where I Lynn, I would have Frank In Phoenix sit in the time out chair for a personal attack on Mommy.
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“Personal attack”?!
Ha ha! It is to laugh! Nothing even close to a personal attack!
I was asking her to explain why Gingrich thinks the lack of terror attacks since 9/11 has been “tragic” for the Bush administration, and why he thinks they should have let a few of them through as a “reminder.”
Besides, Mommy was the one who said “anyone with half a brain knows” etc. I certainly didn’t take that as a personal attack on me.
Loosen up your shoelaces just a bit, Joe …
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Make it Man,
What the jihadis say and what they are actually able to do may be poles apart.
It has always served the ends of Statists to inflate the threat of the State’s enemies.
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Joel,
We’re no longer at war.
We’re now “at nation-building.”
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“What the jihadis say and what they are actually able to do may be poles apart.”
Ah… Tell that to the folks who died in the WTC. Tell that to the folks that witness constant unmonitored traffic across our southern border.
I have no doubt as to their capabilities, and neither should you.
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Can they destroy America? Bomb is back into the Stone Age with nukes or wipe out our cities with other large-scale WMD?
Can they invade us and impose sharia law on Americans?
The fact that they landed a few terrorist punches — and may well land a few more — does not make them Public Enemy No. 1 — the major global threat they are often painted to be.
Radical Islam is not the new Red Menace.
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Chas, please be sure to let me know how you liked the cake.
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I was asking her to explain why Gingrich thinks the lack of terror attacks since 9/11 has been “tragic” for the Bush administration, and why he thinks they should have let a few of them through as a “reminder.”
I feel no compulsion to defend Newt Gingrich. He can think what he thinks and it’s no reflection on anyone but himself. But based on his wording, I think the only fair and reasonable interpretation is that he’s not saying that it’s a tragedy that the Bush administration has successfully prevented any more attacks on U.S. soil, but that the irony of the effect of this–that people dismiss the danger and fail to recognize the success of the administration in this–is a tragedy. This is made more apparent by the words, “it’s almost like,” instead of saying “they should have,” or something. People talk like this all the time when others fail to appreciate their efforts on their behalf. But in this case, the failure to appreciate the efforts, Gingrich feels, is more than just a lack of gratitude, but a political tragedy. It obviously doesn’t mean that it would have been actually preferable for people to have been killed.
What shocks and frightens me is that so many people have such poor comprehension skills. It makes communication virtually impossible and adds unnecessary offense and rancor to almost every discussion.
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We are back, did you notice we were gone? Oh well, we had fun even if we weren’t missed. We went camping along with older daughter up from Boise and my two brothers and parts of their families. Because we knew daughter was heading south afterward, we managed to get all the camping gear for four (tents, sleeping bags, clothes, my chair, etc) into the Mustang. She took the food as we knew we would be eating most of it and would not need to transport it back.
Upon our arrival a couple hours south of here, we smelled gas and heard sounds and had some stalling problems. Fortunately, my brothers are good with cars so were able to take a look and make some adjustments in the hope I could make it home. Older brother and wife then returned home. Next day, other brother returned home with both leaving assurances that they would come rescue us if we got a message out to them. Daughter and her car were still with us. We decided to leave a day early to take advantage of low traffic (the road is one lane in long stretches and a stalled car could block the road for hours). I took it for a short spin and decided it would not make it. Daughter drove to town to use a land line to call out, came back to let me know my older brother was on his way, left the food with us, and drove on home. We reset up camp, hung out, saw to the beach, and did the usual fun things people do when they find themselves stranded alone on the world’s best beaches, covered in fresh brilliant white sand. Put the kids to bed and got the fire going. Brother showed up, and in the morning decided the car was not going anywhere except on his car dolly. He dropped us off here and went on with the car behind his van. I hope to see it someday when it is feeling better. We had a blast.
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Just because the Jihadis aren’t a “strategic” threat, doesn’t mean they are a neglibible threat, or that we should ignore them and say “what war?” while we continue shopping at the mall.
Can they impose Sharia law? Well that remains to be seen. At a mosque near you, I’m sure it is being preached.
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Ah, camping is always an adventure. There was the time, early in our parenthood, when I let my husband pack up the gear. We got to the spot, where it was raining, and discovered he had brought the two-man backpacking tent instead of the five-man family tent.
The baby and I slept in the car. I don’t know about the rest of them.
Thanks for the birthday cake, Mommy. Does it have caffeine in it? Or perhaps I’ll swipe Peter L’s drink since he cheated anyway. I started to get a headache last night and took two Excedrine Migraine tablets at 9 pm.
Just before I popped them in, I thought, “Wait. These have a heavy dose of caffeine.”
Two books, the World Magazine and several others, I now know those tablets will keep you awake at least 8 hours . . . but at least I didn’t get a headache!
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It is snowing here.
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Frank-
Very telling Gingrich quote. I expect an attack to be allowed or fabricated between now and November to scare people into running to grandpa McCain. I honestly do. The GOP relies on fear as a political tool these days. Not the Grand Old Party of pragmatic main street businessmen we once knew.
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Friends,
Good news for me. I have invited to be an occasional front page poster at Talk2Action, whose lineup has included such notables as Barry Lynn, Susan Jacoby, Sarah Posner, Max Blumenthal, and Frank Schaeffer.
They are further to the secular left than I am and I do not endore their left-progressive politics. However, we agree on the need to combat Christian Nationalist historical revisionism and that is what I will be posting about there.
Here is my first post discussing Gary North’s Ebook.
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/6/10/122333/128/Front_Page/Gary_North_s_Ebook
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Mumsee, I was beginning to wonder where you were.
Glad you’re back (safely) and that you and the kids had a good time. Hope the Mustang recovers soon.
We camped once, at a campground near Lake Champlain, VT, when our oldest was about a year old. Right after we got the tent set up, a thunderstorm blew in off the lake, ahead of a cold front. The high winds knocked down a tree next to our tent, and that June night was about 45 degrees. Between being cold ourselves and trying to keep the little guy warm – he kept crawling out from under his covers – it was kind of a rough night!
We do hope to do some camping again but are waiting till the boys are a little older.
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We camp every summer – several times! We love it, since it’s about the only vacation we can afford on a regular basis. It’s quiet, and you have no schedule of things you have to do. We have done several nature hikes (guided), lots of throwing stones in lakes and rivers, lots of relaxing. My kids both camped before they were 6 months old. It’s a great family getaway!
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#36 _odlumps
“I expect an attack to be allowed or fabricated between now and November to scare people into running to grandpa McCain. I honestly do. “
Many think of and accuse others of doing just what they themselves would do.
“The GOP relies on fear as a political tool these days.”
This is not a Republican trick. Again, Republicans are accused of the dirty tricks that are the habits of a different political party.
I read over and over that both political parties play these dirty tricks, both parties cheat. The problem is that I see one party doing these despicable tricks. Not Republicans.
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Congrats Rowe!
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Ree, That was a very gracious and concise answer. I had decided not to bother but appreciate that you did.
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Camping is great for kids, lets them be kids without the help of technology. It is also great for adults. But not all are taken with it. For example, I have one daughter in law who has really never been camping and between wanting everything scheduled and her hair washed, she is adamant she won’t be giving it a try. On the other hand, she admires my son and how he was raised, so we have hope. We are not scheduled but this past weekend one of my brothers took the two younger ones on an old hiking trail he enjoys. It climbs a thousand feet or so and takes a couple hours but they got to see things like elk and mountain goats and a view. He took other daughter on a garnet hunting expedition (she brought mismatched shoes, right feet only, in the hope she could go everywhere in her crocs which was not allowed; I did not get to go on the hike as I stayed in camp with her) and she collected a good supply of them. I have moderately long hair, about to the waist, and I could not imagine not washing it so I do. Only takes a few cups of water.
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Y’all who enjoy camping should go hike a 14er. There’s perhaps fifty mountains in Colorado (also a few in California) which reach over 14,000 feet above sea level.
I’ve done Mt. Elbert and Mt. Princeton and would dearly love to do another, but the logistics are difficult.
The satisfaction of reaching the summit is like nothing else.
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Mumsee,
We have snow here today too! The temp outside is 36 degrees and the wind is blowing–so it has been a blizzard. I walked to the mailbox in my winter coat, through green grass peeking up through the snow with sandals on my feet! This weather is bi-polar! There is not global warming in Montana!
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Kimberly,
I enjoy camping, not work.
Grandma,
I was thinking of you folks over the pass and wondered if you were getting it, too. The news reports commented on the road crews turning in their mowers for plows.
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We haven’t camped in years due to my husband having to work on weekends. Plus we all have allergies which make sleeping out-of-doors less pleasant. But I used to enjoy it as a kid.
Most memorable camping trips:
1. We camped in Baxter State Park in Maine, and my father and I climbed Mt. Katahdin. (My sister and mother didn’t care for all that hiking, and stayed in camp.) I was about 10, he was about 50. He said he was too old and I was too young, but it was the best chance we had to do it together. It took us 14 hours from start to finish, including 4 hours on Knife Edge. His flashlight died on the way down, and we stumbled through the darkness the last hour or so. I have never been as completely exhausted in my life as I was that night – I started seeing things in the darkness that I knew weren’t really there, because they were in color. But the photo of me at the summit is one of my favorites now.
2. I was teaching at a Christian school in CT, and they scheduled a backpacking trip for the highschoolers. They needed adult chaperones, and I volunteered, partly because I like hiking and camping, and also because I would miss parent-teacher conferences by going on the trip. At the last minute, the girl I was paired up to share a 2-man tent with got sick and couldn’t go. So they found a 1-man tent for me to use. Unfortunately the 1-man tent didn’t do a good job of keeping rain out, and I woke up in the middle of the night soaking wet and very cold (this was in November). By morning I was shivering badly, and as soon as I heard voices in other tents I went to ask for help getting warm and dry. Apparently I was suffering from hypothermia, otherwise it might have occurred to me not to wait for morning to ask for help. While everyone else struck camp and made breakfast, I was instructed to walk in circles to get warm. Then they cut the rest of the trip short to get me back home quickly. In retrospect, I think parent-teacher conferences might have been less stressful.
3. Our “honeymoon” was a 3-day camping trip to Virginia. (We also went to the Bahamas a few months later, since my husband had won a free trip for two before he even met me. But the camping trip was where we went the day after we got married.) We took along my husband’s dog, because she was old and having physical problems and my husband was going to have to have her put to sleep the following week. This was a last chance to spend some time with her.
4. The following year we went camping near Washington D.C. in the spring. The day we were planning to head home, we woke up to see snow falling. I decided striking camp in snow is a little better than striking camp in the rain. But we were very glad we had just bought those new extra-warm sleeping bags.
5. We started taking a yearly camping trip up to Litchfield CT over Labor Day weekend (which let us make a quick day trip over to Newington to see my parents without having to stay overnight there). The third year, when our son was 2, we headed north on the NJ Turnpike, and within an hour of heavy holiday traffic, the engine started overheating (despite numerous attempts to get the cooling system repaired properly). My husband opened the hood, saw flames, and yelled at me to take our son and get out. He stayed near the car with our 3-year-old Black lab, and I took our son and headed out looking for any building where I could call AAA (pre-cell phone days). Once we finally got the car towed, I then got a ride to the train station, and took the train with our son back to Trenton, while my husband stayed with the dog (since the dog wouldn’t be allowed on the train). I got my own car and drove back up to retrieve my husband and dog. Then the next day we went car-shopping.
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Earthlink has been down, the power was out yesterday because of the heat and a fire, so I was afraid I missed the recipe — but the Lord provided as usual. Thank you, Mommy. As soon as the heat goes under 100, I’m trying the recipe.
Congratulations, Jon Rowe, though I can’t say I have ever agreed with Barry Lynn. See you in court, as they say.
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But Mumsee, it’s not like you think it is. I say “14er” and people think ropes and really steep cliffs.
I can’t even climb rock walls. Most 14ers can be hiked up, without the aid of climbing gear.
The view is pretty.
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NJLawyer,
Heat?
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Kimberly,
Very Sound of Musicey. Most of our peaks are less than 8,000 around here and that is enough to give me a good headache. But it sounds lovely!
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Since I am remembering things, I will share a camping experience. When I was small my Aunt Virginia (the one who has been so helpful taking care of my dad) Uncle Everette, my two cousins, Brian and Eric, my mom, dad, and I went camping to some place called Florida Caverns.
My dad had taken the cushions of the den sofa to use for his bed. I have a vivid memory of him getting ready to go to bed and there being sand in his covers… He jerked up everything and started shaking it cursing those two red-headed hellions his sister had raised. His idea of roughing it was the Holiday Inn. Fast forward many years later and I was on a youth trip and the woman looked at her husband and said there is a Holiday Inn. We can stay there. I quickly jumped in to let them know that my daddy really wouldn’t want me staying at the Holiday Inn. She asked why and I explained it was a scummy hotel. SHE explained to me what my dad had really meant.
By the way, one of those red headed hellions (Brian to be exact) slept on my fathers bed room floor last night with a pillow and blanket to be near him just in case he needed anything.
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Since I am remembering things I will share my camping experience:
A long, long time ago My Aunt Virginia (the one who has been so helpful in caring for my dad lately), my Uncle Everette and my two cousins Brian and Eric and my parents and I went camping to a place called Florida Caverns.
My dad had taken the cushions off the den sofa to sleep on. I have vivid memory of my dad jerking up the covers to shake out the sand and cussing those two red headed hellions if his Sussy Mae’s. One of those helliions spent last night on my dad’s bedroom floor with a pillow and a blanket, just in case daddy needed him. (Brian to be exact)
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Yes, Mumsee — HEAT!!!!! They say it will end tonight with lots of thunderstorms. I’m looking forward to that. I saw that post about snow, and it helped to cool me down a degree or two to 98 degrees. Fortunately, I have a crank radio and flashlight, so I was able to read a book last night until the power came back on. I drank a lot of water and stayed as still as I could.
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I just read through yesterday’s WVs. Congratulations belatedly Chas on 51 great years with Elvera. I still have that image of the two of you walking hand in hand down the lane that I got with last year’s story.
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Ree (31): What shocks and frightens me is that so many people have such poor comprehension skills. It makes communication virtually impossible and adds unnecessary offense and rancor to almost every discussion.
Frank: I don’t know what it was about that statement, it reminded me that I’d recently read another very similar (non-reported) news story. Some quick Googling brought it back to me:
There’s an old saying: If one man calls you an ass, ignore him. If three men call you an ass, buy a saddle.
Similarly, if onlyNewt Gingrich says
… one might be inclined to read it generously. (I wouldn’t, but I simply don’t trust the neocons.)
But if Rummy also says
… you have to begin to wonder just what kind of twisted souls we have roaming the halls of power.
I would also remind you that it was Project for a New American Century whose 2000 report, “Rebuilding America’s Defenses,” included the following warning:
Like, ohh, say, 9/11?
American-Exceptionalist Statists like Gingrich, Rumsfeld and PNAC love it when America is threatened or attacked, because it justifies their misguided global military adventurism.
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Frank, this last line bothered me: “American-Exceptionalist Statists like Gingrich, Rumsfeld and PNAC love it when America is threatened or attacked, because it justifies their misguided global military adventurism.”
You italicized the word “love.” I have to tell you that I disagree with you that Gingrich and Rumsfeld just sit around hoping for America to be attacked. I think that’s unfair. Wanting to be ready for the new way of doings things doesn’t mean people want war. It means they want to be prepared.
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Question for y’all. Monday nights after I tutor, I treat my student to dinner at Burger King (his favorite – I don’t get anything, just pick up drive-through for him to take to work with him for his dinner). Last night there was a type-written sign about temporarily not putting tomatoes on any sandwiches due to a U.S. Agriculture warning. I hadn’t heard anything about that. Does anyone know what it’s about?
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Mommy – There have been reports of salmonella poisoning from tomatoes in many states recently.
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Mommy,
Thanks.
Frank in Phoenix says,
American-Exceptionalist Statists like Gingrich, Rumsfeld and PNAC love it when America is threatened or attacked, because it justifies their misguided global military adventurism.
It’s no wonder that you keep missing the point with this as your lens.
All these statements are making the same point. If I tell my husband that it will take a heart attack for him to realize that he needs to work less and take better care of himself, do you think this means I want my husband to have a heart attack or might there be a more reasonable and obvious interpretation?
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Mumsee, We missed you. It sounds like you had great adventure, if not such a good time. It’s one of those things you’ll remember, but I’m confused about your talk about the world’s best beach.
Don’t be driving around those mountains in the snow. I mean it, it’s a long way down.
Congratulations Jon.
Thanks NJL. BTW, Mommy and I think your boss is very astute. Call George and you two make things like they ought to be. Some of us can see it from here.
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Ya know Frank . . . if your posts on the EVILL Republicans contained fewer of these . . . and more complete quoted sentences and paragraphs . . . expressing complete thoughts . . . showing that what you claim is at least quoted in context . . . you might find that . . . you’ll make a partial sale more often.
Granted, Raw Story put those snip-its together and it seems the actual transcripts are not yet available, but if that is what you must rely on to create your points, how are they worth all that work to post?
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Well it’s cooled down here today. It’s only 91 instead of 101….
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Chas – I think you meant to address Kim in the last paragraph of your previous comment.
Either that or you’re trying to fix up NJL with Kim’s ex!
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Kim – I happen to agree with the others here about you & George trying it again, if at all possible.
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Kim, me too.
Mumsee, snow? Did you or one of your neighbors forget to turn over the last few calendar pages? It’s June for the rest of us. (You know, 80s or 90s.)
Jon, congratulations!
Camping: hated it. Tent camping particularly, but trailer camping that didn’t have a toilet in the trailer wasn’t much better, and trailer camping that did still wasn’t much better. Of course, a big part of what I hated were the endless car rides (three kids and a dog in the backseat, a dad who didn’t like to stop driving till after dark, always an old car that might break down at any time, my tendency to carsickness, a pesky younger brother and sister . . .).
I do have some good memories of hiking and of campground stores where I bought post cards and sometimes pretty rocks. But for camping itself, I think I’d like to try a cabin in the woods (something I’ve never done)–as long as it has comfortable bunks and a clean bathroom complete with shower. Tent camping, no–something about getting rained on when you’re in bed that I find distinctly unappealing. Rocks under my back, same thing. I don’t have to wash my hair every day, but I do want a mattress and a flush toilet.
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Cheryl – don’t think you have to rough it 100% to go tent camping! We bring an air mattress for my husband and I to sleep on – kids don’t care for one. We also camp at state parks. In MN and WI, they always include flush toilets and showers! We don’t get sites with electricity, however – have to draw the line somewhere! We cook on a gas stove or over the campfire. And, thankfully, haven’t really been rained out before. A little rain, yes, but usually it’s spotty enough that we can get our activities in. Ahhhh. Quiet….gotta love it!
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Just heard that we are in the new month of Juneuary!
Chas, didn’t get to wish you and your lovely wife Happy Anniversary yesterday. DH grandparents were married for 71 years and he still called her “my girl”. I think marriage just gets more fun the longer you’re married. Congratulations and may the Lord bless you with many more!
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RonD (62): Ya know Frank . . . if your posts on the EVILL Republicans contained fewer of these . . . and more complete quoted sentences and paragraphs . . . expressing complete thoughts . . . showing that what you claim is at least quoted in context . . . you might find that . . . you’ll make a partial sale more often.
Frank: Point taken.
Go to the Raw Story page and watch the unedited C-SPAN video yourself, and tell me if you think the printed … version isn’t … being fair with Gingrich’s statement.
Gingrich is a learned man. If he were trying to communicate what some here suggest, I think he might use a different word than “tragedy.”
Freudian slip, perhaps?
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20-
“The nation is not at war,
The Marines are at war,
The nation is at the mall.”
A war of a different kind…the one at the mall, that is…the war for our affections
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Ree (60): All these statements are making the same point. If I tell my husband that it will take a heart attack for him to realize that he needs to work less and take better care of himself, do you think this means I want my husband to have a heart attack or might there be a more reasonable and obvious interpretation?
Frank: Taking better care of my own health is hardly analogous to the kind of military transition thet PNAC was trying to sell in “Rebuilding America’s Defenses.”
Have you read excerpts of the report?
They argued for all manner of increased military presence around the world, and especially in the Middle East. I think the word is “garrisoning.”
And then people laugh through their sleeves when I and others decry our nation’s imperialist tendencies?
I don’t defend my own home by stationing guards in the homes of my neighbors who happen to live next door to other neighbors that I don’t trust.
Likewise, we don’t defend America by garrisoning the world.
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Chas (20): “The nation is not at war,
The Marines are at war,
The nation is at the mall.”
Frank: We are “at the mall” because George Bush basically told us, “Mission Accomplished. Go shopping.”
We aren’t “at war” — not the legitimate, just kind of wars that are waged in self-defense, anyways.
We are at nation-building, and nation-building wars are not just wars.
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Chas merely failed to hit a return to start a new paragraph. (Besides, I’m a little old for George, and if Kim’s boss is right …. (and sometimes other people see things the main characters don’t)
Apparently, NJ tomatoes are okay to eat. Don’t know if that helps.
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Chas merely failed to hit a return to start a new paragraph. (Besides, I’m a little old for George, and if Kim’s boss is right …. (and sometimes other people see things the main characters don’t)
Apparently, NJ tomatoes are okay to eat. Don’t know if that helps.
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Holy cow, Frank, how many times do you have to be told? The Mission Accomplished banner (which was not authorized by the President or his staff) was simply meant to mark the occasion of the Hussein government being overthrown.
That vicious and murderous government had to be overthrown before the work of establishing a more democratic government that recognized the rights of ALL Iraqi people could begin.
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You’re right Frank.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you all very much. Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. (Applause.) And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country.
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outkast (75): Holy cow, Frank, how many times do you have to be told? The Mission Accomplished banner (which was not authorized by the President or his staff) was simply meant to mark the occasion of the Hussein government being overthrown.
Frank: My point was not the “Mission Accomplished” banner. I could very well have left that part out.
My point is that, considering that we’re in a war for “liberty and civilization itself” (to hear some tell it), for Bush to tell America hey, don’t worry about it , it’s handled, just go shopping, is a bit … daft.
Of course, Bush knows full well that we’re not in any such vital war, so “Go shopping while we build democracy in Iraq” ain’t necessarily bad advice. (Back before the recession, at least.)
outkast (75): That vicious and murderous government had to be overthrown before the work of establishing a more democratic government that recognized the rights of ALL Iraqi people could begin.
Frank: How many times do you have to be told?
The US Constitution does not authorize our gummint to wage wars of liberation.
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Mr. Buckles,
I’m sorry to be so cynical. I haven’t always been like this. After 7 years of the Bushies, I have come to expect the worst from the GOP, hence my move to a third party. It will take years for me to trust the GOP again. I am not alone.
Best regards,
GODLumps
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Frank,
It’s one thing to have a problem with US imperialist tendencies. It’s another thing to accuse those you’re convinced are promoting that agenda of wishing for (and maybe even implying that they orchestrated) terrorist attacks. Besides being uncharitable and precluding honest debate, it reflects badly on you and makes you seem downright paranoid.
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The quote above in #76 is from May 1. 2003. We won the war five years ago! It’s the profiteering that takes so long.
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All,
Thanks!
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Many war supporters insist that the GWOT® is our WWII.
Funny, I don’t recall FDR telling Americans to “go shopping more.”
On the other hand, he did surreptiiously provoke Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor in order to get us into Europe’s and China’s wars.
But at least he had the decency to ask Congress for a proper declaration of war.
Then again, like Henry Hyde siad in October 2002, re. Ron Paul’s insistence that, if we’re going to invade Iraq, Congress declare war on Iraq:
Declaration of war is an anachronism. It’s just not done anymore. Why declare war when you don’t have to?
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Thanks from me too for the cake, Mommy. It was a pretty looong hoooot 32nd birthday here for me (it hit 103 today without heat index). Hubby is gone until end of July, and I think I heard “Moooommmmyyyy!!” about 3,000 times today. I have to admit, I felt much crankier than usual, but thought it was just missing my husband and feeling overwhelmed with everything to do by myself. So I put the kids to bed really early, and took my temp, and sure enough I’ve got what the kids had last week. Hope the other birthday gals had a wonderful day!
Blessings!
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Ree (79): It’s one thing to have a problem with US imperialist tendencies.
Frank: But Ree, haven’t you heard? The US doesn’t have imperialist tendencies.
Ree (79): It’s another thing to accuse those you’re convinced are promoting that agenda of wishing for (and maybe even implying that they orchestrated) terrorist attacks.
Frank: I’ve not said I think “they orchestrated” terror attacks, because I don’t believe it. But that’s a different thing from saying maybe “they allowed” terror attacks, isn’t it? (See the stand-down just prior to the Pearl Harbor attacks.)
Aside from that though, if one neocon tells you his agenda would go better if we were attacked, ignore him. But when three neocons tell you their agenda would go better if we were attacked, watch out.
Ree (79): Besides being uncharitable and precluding honest debate, it reflects badly on you and makes you seem downright paranoid.
Frank: No paranoia here, friend.
Just taking these patriotic American geniuses at their own words.
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Oh, and here’s my camping story.
When I was in junior high, I joined a High-Adventure Explorers group. We were going on a 50 mile backpacking trip, and we were required to bring our backpack, all packed for the trip, to be inspected the night before; just to make sure we packed correctly. Well, I did all my packing just as I was instructed and headed to the meeting.
When the leader pulled out my “stuff”, stuck in the middle was a hairdryer, curling iron, and hairspray. I was horribly embarassed! When Dad came and picked me up, he asked if I found anything “extra” in my backpack. He confessed that he and my older brother snuck those things in after I had already packed.
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Godlumps (36): The GOP relies on fear as a political tool these days.
Bob Buckles (40): This is not a Republican trick. …
Frank: Go watch the GOP’s These are the stakes ad from October 2006. Go on, it’s only a minute long.
Then come back here and tell us — with a straight face — that fear isn’t a tool of the GOP.
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Karen, you were right. What happened is my fingers were faster than my brain.
I will start working on JNL when I get Kim & George straight. From what I hear, George really is a good guy.
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The rightwingers have done a pretty good job at ducking Frank in Phoenix’s original point, so I’ll make it again:
If Barack Obama, or Howard Dean or Hillary Clinton or any other Democrat had said: And it’s almost like they should every once in a while have allowed an attack to get through just to remind us.
… The right-wing pundits would be talking about it for months. They’d be outraged. They’d be apoplectic.
But a darling of the right said it, so it passes without a murmur.
How do you folks justify that? Have the nerve to answer.
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SteveG, that’s an irresponsible and willful distortion. What Gingrish said and meant in context was nothing like what you are trying to spin off, not that anybody needs to defend Gingrich.
The elevator is not working.
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#17
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Frank pretty much hit the nail directly. The neo-cons have been fairly open about the use of fear as a politcal tool, not that they’re the first. Fear has a long history in America.
Camping: My daughter loved it when she was 4 to 8 years old (The Pinery Prov. Park was a yearly ritual) but I’m beginning to wear out. I just returned from camping with the grade eights. A summer camp in the north takes school groups in June at reduced rates. We’re in cabins. The students go to a shower building and the teachers have showers in their cains. Kayaks, canoes, and rock climbing. Watching kids from the projects who never had the opportunity to be in a canoe or kayak is an awesome sight.
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Joel Mark:
You’re absolutely right, but you’re dancing around the fact that if Obama had uttered those words, it wouldn’t matter. Taking it as Obama approving a successful terrorist attack would be every bit as much an “irresponsible and willful distortion,” but that would not stop Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly or Ann Coulter from insisting that was exactly what he meant.
So again, you duck the point. Nobody is saying Gingrich meant anything bad by it; we are saying it was just the same kind of bad phrasing that the right wing would pounce on with warp speed if they had come out of a Democrat’s mouth.
So, try again to justify the double standard? Or continue to pretend you don’t get the point. Either way.
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Outkast #75: The Mission Accomplished banner (which was not authorized by the President or his staff) was simply meant to mark the occasion of the Hussein government being overthrown.
Wrong. It was there because the ship on which Bush gave the speech had successfully completed the mission on which it was sent. The media made sure the banner got into the picture when Bush spoke.
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Oh right, the evil “media” made sure to get it into the pictures.
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Seems you guys need to do a little reading about how the sign came to be. The White House made it and hung it.
Mission Accomplished
White House spokesman Scott McClellan told CNN “We took care of the production of it. We have people to do those things. But the Navy actually put it up.”[5] According to John Dickerson of TIME magazine, the White House later conceded that they actually hung the banner but still insists it had been done at the request of the crew members.[6]
Just one more little bit of deceit by the Bushies.
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Pauline: My apologies for forgetting to award the coffee of the day–you are correct that it was Aristotle. Enjoy your iced coffee!
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Lumps,
Ohhhhhhh … snap! “No good photo-op goes unexploited,” huh?
When Demo-rats do it, it’s propaganda. Talking smack. Grima Wormtongue.
But when God’s Own Party does it, it’s “message force multiplication” (see post 56).
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This just in from today’s LewRockwell.com:
Hence the twisted mindsets of PNAC, Rumsfeld, Gingrich et al., who genuinely think it is in our nation’s bests interests — or at least those of their own political establishments — for America to be attacked.
You know. Just to “remind” us how dangerous the world is.
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Joel Mark re: #92 … well?
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I guess Joel Mark isn’t coming back to this thread.
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