Obama: Too many dads MIA
In a Father’s Day speech to Chicago’s Apostolic Church of God, Sen. Barack Obama challenged African-American men to stay involved in their children’s lives, warning them that “responsibility doesn’t just end at conception.”
“Too many fathers are MIA. Too many fathers are AWOL,” he told a huge African-American congregation in Chicago. “There’s a hole in your heart if you don’t have a male figure in the home that can guide you and lead you and set a good example for you.”
“What makes you a man is not the ability to have a child – any fool can have a child,” he said, to applause. “That doesn’t make you a father. It’s the courage to raise a child that makes you a father.”
Citing statistics and sharing his own life story, Obama also highlighted three lessons that fathers must learn, “whether we are black or white; rich or poor; from the South Side or the wealthiest suburb”:
- “The first is setting an example of excellence for our children – because if we want to set high expectations for them, we’ve got to set high expectations for ourselves. It’s great if you have a job; it’s even better if you have a college degree.”
- “The second thing we need to do as fathers is pass along the value of empathy to our children. Not sympathy, but empathy – the ability to stand in somebody else’s shoes; to look at the world through their eyes.”
- “[T]he final lesson we must learn as fathers is also the greatest gift we can pass on to our children – and that is the gift of hope. I’m not talking about an idle hope that’s little more than blind optimism or willful ignorance of the problems we face. I’m talking about hope as that spirit inside us that insists, despite all evidence to the contrary, that something better is waiting for us if we’re willing to work for it and fight for it. If we are willing to believe.”
Any other “lessons” to add?




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back to top77 Comments to “Obama: Too many dads MIA”
Is this anything we’ve not already heard from Dr Laura Schlessinger or Dr Bill Cosby?
But as one who experienced father-abandonment, Barack can address the absentee dad phenom with a gravitas few other pols possess.
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“It’s great if you have a job; it’s even better if you have a college degree.”
Personally that is just sad, so basically if you are a dad with NO interest in academics but are hard-working plumber or electrician, then somehow you have failed to present a good example of excelence to your children?
College is not the be-all-end-all of American life. Nor does a college degree function (now) as an example (in itself) of excellence.
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“There’s a hole in your heart if you don’t have a male figure in the home that can guide you and lead you and set a good example for you.”
So, he opposes lesbian adoption?
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Dave,
I believe he is speaking to the larger picture in the black community, where “sperm donors” abound and real fathers are not encouraged except by folks that Sawgunner mentioned.
As a politician that has a special section on his website for LGBT folks, I doubt you’ll hear him say, much less think, that he opposes lesbian adoption.
Your comment betrays a seemingly myopic view of this very socialistic and liberal senator…
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I have to agree with Robert M. I find his statement about college and having a job strange.
My dad quit school after 10 grade. His older brother was accidently killed that year. He went to work in a steel mill. He successfully reared 5 children, ran a successful business with my mom and still worked a full-time job and then some. He went back for a GED years later and attended some college when the government paid for it. The steel mill shut down where he had worked over 30 years and the funds for education came from that.
He builds wonderful furniture and decorative items that my mom paints. Their gardens have been featured several times on public television. He rebuilt his first airplane from parts that came in a bushel basket. He did all of it, including the frame. He did a couple more after that. He made his own canoes also and snow shoes. He added on to his home many times, doing all the work with my mother.
He and my mother are still independent and financially well-off in their 80th decade. He reads everything and keeps up on current events. He is self-educated for the most part. Would I be prouder if he had an actual college degree? No. He has shown me that one can be educated just fine without one.
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Saying that all real education can only happen in a classroom setting is tantamount to and equally ludicrous as saying that amour can only happen in the bedroom.
Hugely successful radio Deejay in Dallas- Ron Chapman–once admitted how surprised folks were to learn that he never went to college! Essential for brain surgeons and aircraft designers? You bet! But there is much learning and mastery to be achieved in other pursuits beyond the lecture cavern.
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Perhaps if Mr Obama realized that allowing abortion for any reason lets accidental fathers off the hook. “Hey, I don’t want to be a father now. Go get an abortion and leave me out of it.”
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Yep, it’s just some kind of mass hysteria that makes just about every parent in America do just about everything they can to get his/her kids to stay in school and go to college.
If only they realized that 50 years of being at the mercy of one’s employer or being one injury away from permanent unemployment [or a long stint of (gasp) more education] is a great contribution to the American economy.
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C’mon folks, don’t you think you’re being a little bit rough on Obama. I think he’s right in this instance. He’s addressing a serious problem, with some common sense. I still think he’d be a horrible President and bad for this country, but I mostly agree with him here.
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Obama said, “That was when I wasn’t black enough. Now I’m too black.” Responding to cheers and applause, he added ruefully, “Y’all remember.”
“You and I know how true this is in the African-American community,” he said. “We know that more than half of all black children live in single-parent households, a number that has doubled — doubled — since we were children.”
Why must everything Obama says have a racial component? Staying involved in children’s lives is a charge to ALL fathers. I am so sick of the racial divide that Obama perpetuates by dividing America into classes based on skin color.
Even if this is more of a problem in the black community, why must Obama’s message be only to the black community? Shouldn’t we have a president who will address all Americans?
I sometimes wish Obama is elected just so we get past this. Unfortunately, we will never get past the racism of black theology even if people of color had all the wealth and power in the world. Why? Because that would be the end of black theology.
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Obama must know whereof he speaks, given what his father did to him.
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I agree with AJ. Perhaps Obama should have said something along the lines of, “finish your education,” and “provide for your children in every way like a real father.”
Xion makes a good point as well.
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As to Obama, as Kwerna comments, where was his father? All I’ve read is the Time article. Did the dad disappear completely when he was a baby? Or did he actually know him. Maybe I ought to read the book . . .
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To Xion
Your response was pretty much on the mark, or at least as far as it went. But you limited your comments to black theology.
White people can never appease black people because they don’t want to be appeased.
As long as blacks can continue to find “racism” they don’t have to look in the mirror.
And if they can’t find “racism” they have to trot out the Jena 6 case, the Duke U. Lacrosse fiasco and all of those hate crimes hoaxes.
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I would add that a Christian father should do what is needed to pass on his faith, & to teach & model integrity.
My dad didn’t have a chance to go to college, but he rose in his profession due to his intelligence & integrity. He had clients that would follow him to another company because they trusted his word.
My own husband has demonstrated the importance of faith, working hard, & being faithful to one’s family, church, & job.
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The Real AJ took the words right out of my mouth.
Xion, this is a real problem in the black community and Obama was speaking in a black church. He was preaching to that congregation.
Brilliant way, btw, to grab the attention of women voters.
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You guys amaze me. Obama speaks some very important truth and you find little sad ways to keep on attacking. The man could say that he likes Mondays and you would have a collective freakout, “Well what’s wrong with Saturday, MR. HUSSEIN!?!?!?!?!”
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He doesn’t beleive any of that. He thinks government programs can take the place of parents. He’s just trying to throw a bone to conservatives and it won’t work.
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I guess I didn’t understand that making a comment on an Obama comment was attacking him. I agree with Karen’s comment. I don’t want to put down a college education or tell parents not to have high expectations for their children. At the same time, I would not want any fathers out there to think that somehow their lack of a college education makes them less.
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Less admirable, that is!
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Where does he tell fathers without an education that they are “less”?
The full text and video of his speech.
” The first is setting an example of excellence for our children – because if we want to set high expectations for them, we’ve got to set high expectations for ourselves. It’s great if you have a job; it’s even better if you have a college degree.”
In the mind of the partisan “it’s great” becomes “it’s terrible”.
It is a better example to have a college degree, because college degrees are an increasingly important part of being financially successful. Some of you are exceedingly eager to read a lot of things into the statements that simply aren’t there.
He didn’t say that, either.
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You’ll get no argument from me that there is a great need for Father’s out there, in any community, black or otherwise. They are almost indispensable. So I’ll certainly agree with Obama on that one.
I’ll also say that by and large a college or university education beats no education. Although the value of some folks “education” at some institutions of “higher learning” is dubious at best…
No, I’ll have to disagree with Obama on some other score, and Adam will have to find some other opinion to castigate me for…
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I think Obama should be encouraging the men in the black community to be responsible fathers, and encouraging members of the black community to value education.
It’s a message that should be in the mouths of all black leaders – in spades. Jesse and Al take notes…
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To Adam Beckham
What are the rules when it comes to Obama? Is there any criticism of Obama that is not racial?
If Obama is so sensitive to criticism he shouldn’t have run for public office.
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It is good that Obama seems to grasp what his talk indicated.
I wonder if it will ever dawn on him that many of the policies he promotes are leading contributors to the sorry state of the community which he now decries.
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Once again, as usual, all we have to go on with Obama on this issue is a speech. By and large, it seemed like a pretty good speech too.
If you want a smooth socialist preacher for president, vote for him. If you want an accomplished experienced statesmen, keep looking.
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Adam at #17 is exactly right. No matter what he says, some here (and elsewhere) will find some picayune reason to argue with it.
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“Once again, as usual, all we have to go on with Obama on this issue is a speech.”
Mmm…no. You’re lying. He has written a book that gives you striking examples from his life on this issue. He has also been a publicly very committed husband and father to his two daughters, which you can see in the media.
Xion,
Shut up! If Obama had not mentioned the black community explicitly, I can more than guarantee that WorldMag’s resident racists (yourself, Nick, Night Train, et all.) would have been more than happy to provide the exact same statistics. You are not upset that Obama is talking about this issue to Black Fathers; you’re peeved as all mary that he beat you to it!
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Xion – 10
I read the entire article yesterday. I agree with what you posted, one comment stands out —- “Why must everything Obama says have a racial component? Staying involved in children’s lives is a charge to ALL fathers. I am so sick of the racial divide that Obama perpetuates by dividing America into classes based on skin color.” —-
I had mentioned on another thread that I would be getting the two books which Obama wrote:
“Dreams from My Father” by Obama, published in 1995.
“The Audacity of Hope” published in 2006.
It’s very hard to believe that the ’same’ person wrote both books.
Everyone should read “Dreams from my Father” it is a book which in my opinion, is written by an individual who is obsessed with race, blackness, bound in utter confusion and racism.
I would urge anyone to get the book “Dreams from my Father” it will OPEN your eyes as to who this man is.
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Vicky,
I’ll get it at lunch when I pick up “How to be useful”!
And I’ll lend you both.
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Luke, your unjustified judgmentalism toward me personally is typical. My point is that words (speeches and books or whatever) are not enough to go on when voting for president. I claim to know nothing about his family or personal matters and I do not criticize him at that level either. I am commenting as an observer and voter going on his public presentations, voting record and policy positions. Speeches (and books) are not enough for me.
Beyond speeches and books, we see a politician who thinks that turning to government is the primary answer on social, economic and other issues.
That’s my view and it’s no lie whether you agree with it or not. But because you cannot refute it, you accuse me of lying. That’s irresponsible, and typical.
Then you turn to Xion and say, “Shut up!”
But I already knew that honoralbe disabreement is extremely rare from liberals. Your comments were intellectually depraved.
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We are getting a dose of media hype that fully presumes that the public can be swayed with staged speeches, campaign commercials and bio books, ghost written or not.
They are not paying attention to Obama’s record at all, only to his words and his press secretaries.
In my view, the media presume that the main issues driving this presidential campaign can be shaped and selected by them, the media. They apparently presume that all they have to do is fill the air with words so that we will not look at Obama’s actual inexperience and his short radical leftist record. The media do not want us to think much beyond his own speeches.
That’s my impression.
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Adios, Adam, Luke, SteveG, etc.
I should have prefaced my comment with, “It was a necessary speech delivered well!” No one is saying otherwise.
I simply prefer a president who is more concerned about the content of someone’s character than the color of their skin. I would like a president who represents ALL Americans. I would like a president who does not refer to most voters as bitter xenophobes.
For that, Luke calls me a racist. Thanks Luke.
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It’s amusing, when people can’t read for themselves, but comment on a book which they have no clue of its contents.
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To Victoria
Following your “logic” are you going to watch all pornographic movies before you fell qualified to condemn them on a case-by-case basis?
Have people condemned Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” without actually reading it?
When it comes to books about racial subject matters written by blacks is there any charge we haven’t heard dozens of times before?
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Weak argument, off TOPIC, off subject, but TYPICAL of what you post.
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To Victoria
I having been reading your comments and you really haven’t said anything.
If my argument is weak then you should have no problem refuting it but yet you are drawing a blank.
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Xion, et. al.
A couple of questions:
A) who was the audience for this speech?
B) If Obama had not addressed specific challenges facing his own community would you (or in your opinion would the average poster on this board) have criticized him for that?
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“I simply prefer a president who is more concerned about the content of someone’s character than the color of their skin.”
Nobel of you. But could you please explain how Obama comments about fatherhood in the African American community suggest that he cares more about skin color than the content of someone’s character? How exactly is his appeal to black father in front of a black audience a failure to represent all American’s?
Now some hard truths! Dr. King’s words never implied that race should not be a topic of conversation. He never supported the “color blind society” as explained by Phil Donahue and conservative cover up artists.
Do we have to do this again?
Read: White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Backpack
http://tiny.cc/nCJU7
(I swear some of you are actually going to read it one day)
And come to the realization that in your haste to banish all discussion of race you are only striving to create a world that is white by default, where white values, standards, and ideas have untold and unquestioned authority and where your white skin can continue to invisibly benefit and pad your life.
Yes, Xion, you are a racist!
Don’t want to be a racist? That’s admirable! Start Reading.
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Luke – Disagreeing with one of another race is not racism. Disliking or hating one due to his race is racism.
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You told Xion to SHUT UP and now you are calling him a ‘racist’ ? So now its personal attacks because you don’t agree with Xion?
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Karen,
Please READ before commenting. You think me and Clarence Thomas agree on everything? Anyone with middle school level reading comprehension would know that I never said that disagreeing with one of another race is racism. Of course you have to actually READ to benefit from reading comprehension!
Victoria,
I think you read, but I’m not sure that you have at least middle school level reading comprehension. I did call Xion a racist, that’s correct. But I did it grounded in a very well defined argument that has been fleshed out over many years. My theoretical and practical justifications for calling Xion a racist were rather explicit.
Self reflecting on our own oppressive practices is an inherently stress inducing actively, and I hope that my comments are understood not as irrational attacks but as part of a necessary antagonism that accompanies liberation struggles!
Coating racism in a layer of sugar because it hurts the feelings of self-obsessed and willfully negligent white people is unconscionable because it stands as another instance of white comfort and self confidence coming at the expense of people of color!
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Luke,
You have problems in conversation, with anyone whom you disagree with, without making absurd remarks. Now its “middle school level reading” – you do ‘rattle’ when you can’t have your own way,
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Luke–
I started your link and stopped to comment on the list of so-called “white privileges”:
1) Many of these privileges (for example, “curricular materials that testify to the existence of my race”) have been going away thanks to anti-racism movement. Most curricular materials–if they don’t want to be branded racist–highlight minority advancement and history as they go along.
2) Others have absolutely no bearing on overall “white privileges” but rather on individual people. For example, the “neighbors treating me with respect” is no privilege: it is a condemnation of people who cannot treat minority races with respect and a commendation of those who do, but it is not a privilege.
Just some thoughts ….
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Well, if he was talking to a largely black audience, it makes sense to talk about black fathers. I heard part of the speech this morning on GMA, and as I recall there was a line in there where he says point blank that blacks have used past injustices as an excuse for walking out on their kids. If Obama can’t make a speech like this, who can? I think he should embrace the likes of Cosby.
Urging black me to get a college education is not a crime either. I doubt he was picking on people who don’t have more of a formal education but nevertheless work hard.
I do agree with KRM that often the programs of Democrats only encourage the problems Obama is now decrying.
All in all, this was not a bad speech.
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NJL
Have you read Obama’s book “Dreams from my Father” ? – it was published in 1995, – very revealing -
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Dave Matre, good point at #3. There is hypocrisy in praising fatherhood on one hand and advocating policies that prevent fatherhood on the other hand.
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NOTE: A few quotes from article –
Townhall
Tuesday, June 03, 2008
Irrelevant Apologies
By Thomas Sowell
“Despite clever spin from Obama’s supporters about avoiding “guilt by association,” much more is involved than casual association with people like Jeremiah Wright and Father Pfleger.”
“In addition to giving $20,000 of his own money to Jeremiah Wright, as a state senator Obama directed $225,000 of the Illinois taxpayers’ money for programs run by Father Pfleger. In the U.S. Senate, Obama earmarked $100,000 in federal tax money for Father Pfleger’s work. Giving someone more than 300 grand is not just some tenuous, coincidental association.”
“Are Barack Obama’s views shown by what he says during an election year or by what he has been doing for decades before?”
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I slowly scrolled through the thread and wondered why the condemnation and criticism. When Cosby said it last year, the site was overwhelmingly positive. However, Cosby is a safe black, an almost Uncle Tom like figure who doesn’t frighten the ruling classes but Obama is an unknown entity who no matter what he says will be viewed with suspicion and a fear that he will morph into a black panther. In short he has yet to be controlled. Perhaps he should’ve sold Jello prior to running for president.
I’m not sure where the fear originates from although the Republican stragist specialize in creating fear. If one notes Obama’s recent statements, he has moved to the centre since gaining the nomination. And his economic policy has come under increasing scrutiny from leftist who don’t like what they see. For those who cry socialist, note he has several members of the Chicago school on his team. My favourite socialist, Naomi Klien, describes the free market proponents on Obama’s team;
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080630/klein
Many of you seem to view a sky falling when despite his message of change, Obama is not really that radical. The campaign of fear started over a year ago is slowly sputtering out. Most of the rumours have been put to bed including the non-existent Michelle “whitey” tape. Since that has died Victoria and others have picked up a new spot to wave the red meat about yet America doesn’t seem to be biting. Perhaps the fear card has run its course.
Yet never fear, the Republican party will mine fear for all its worth. Now Michelle representing the blackness of Obama appears to be fair game;
http://tinyurl.com/6ohj73
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Obama’s wife is off limits but in the rush to use the Katrina disaster to get Bush, his elderly mother was fair game.
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Luke:
I do not find your comments calling individuals racists and telling someone to shut-up particularly civil. We strive at WMB to maintain an environment that fosters civil debate. Please keep that in mind when you comment–and that goes for everyone else as well.
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Nick H. Peters:
Because I didn’t accuse anyone of being racist, I think a more apt question would be: Is there any way to tell someone their criticism of Obama is wrong without them whining about being accused of being racist?
You’re not going to be able to use that as a free pass to criticize Obama without being corrected, sorry.
XION:
Sounds like Obama to me.
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It is fascinating that an important part of Obama’s speech was left out of nearly all news accounts. However you can find it here at Obama’s web site.
“And by the way – it’s a responsibility that also extends to Washington. Because if fathers are doing their part; if they’re taking our responsibilities seriously to be there for their children, and set high expectations for them, and instill in them a sense of excellence and empathy, then our government should meet them halfway. We should reward fathers who pay that child support with job training and job opportunities and a larger Earned Income Tax Credit that can help them pay the bills.”
In other words, he plans to pay deadbeat parents to do their duty as parents. And where will that money come from? From responsible parents, of course.
Since he claims this is predominantly a black problem, then by his own admission what he is really proposing is a massive redistribution of wealth from one skin color to another.
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One interesting aspect is to compare the written text with what he actually said — his added remarks gives more impact. In the church, he is more of a story teller than simply an orator.
At the close, his spoken word is far more explicit about his Christian conviction than the namby-pamby text.
We have to do what we can to build our house upon the sturdiest rock. And for me that means building that house upon the foundation of Jesus Christ.
And for what it’s worth, here is something that most pro-life folks would also agree with (well at least the pro-life Catholics I know):
You don’t have to agree finally with Obama as the Democratic candidate to see that he is mapping out a kind of center ground. There is a great overlap of values, and it is worth the recognition. The alternative is to so focus on what divides, so refuse any possibility of common task that the very values we profess end up getting lost in our politicized stance. And that would be a tragedy for our society, as well as for ourselves.
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#38 CoyoteBlue asks “A couple of questions:”
A) who was the audience for this speech?
A black church. But my question back to you is “Why is Obama giving political speeches from the pulpit of a black church, promising all kinds of rewards to them?”
B) If Obama had not addressed specific challenges facing his own community would you (or in your opinion would the average poster on this board) have criticized him for that?
I would be offended if any presidential candidate singled out a specific ethnic community for special rewards, especially since he has a long history of associating with racists who have been calling for just this sort of favoritism.
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Xion– I am just so confused, since when is some one who works hard to fulfill his child support obligation a “deadbeat”? Isn’t society better off if the children have the support of their fathers?
It would seem this all or nothing approach (marriage as the only answer) only lets them get off from any payment at all. I’m scratching my head at how our society is better for that. We only reinforce bad habits from the fathers and end up with families in even greater need of reliance on the government.
Obama outlines a path to increased responsibility and you say, “no thanks?” In policy terms, this strikes me as the very definition of self-defeating behavior.
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XION:
A man who pays his child support is the direct opposite of a “deadbeat parent”. Good try, though.
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What would you call a father who will only do his duty as a parent in order to get a government handout?
The problem is that government handouts tend to reinforce the behavior you are trying to curtail. Welfare checks keep people enslaved for generations. Handing out needles encourages more drug use. Giving a free pass to unqualified workers promotes the unqualified. Advancing people based on skin color promotes the very racism it is trying to prevent.
As I said before, I do not disagree with a moral challenge from the pulpit asking fathers to step up and be responsible. That is exactly what churches should be doing! But what Obama preached was not a sermon; it was politics.
Obama’s answer was not God, but Washington. His message was not to lay up treasure in heaven, but a massive wealth redistribution campaign. His program is not for all Americans, but only the racially approved few.
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It’s the ’socialist’ plan that is obvious to most ‘thinking’ Americans. We see the ‘redistribution wealth plan’ in everything Obama talks about. Read his book. “Dreams from my Father” – all about victim-hood -
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Kimberly,
McIntosh’s orginal article was published in 1989. What you talk about in your first post is generally called progress. Never the less, I don’t think you are aware of the kind of negative and destructive criticism that gets directed at attempts to teach a history that is not eurocentric. Departments of Ethinc and Women’s Studies still face extreme preduice ofr their attempt to teach (in HRW’s terms) “unsafe” versions of racial and gendered history.
Kristin,
I’ll refer you to the last paragraph in post 42.
“Coating racism in a layer of sugar because it hurts the feelings of self-obsessed and willfully negligent white people is unconscionable because it stands as another instance of white comfort and self confidence coming at the expense of people of color!
In other words, GET OVER IT!
If you think something violates your rules of civility, than excerise your (white) privledge and delete it! But don’t try to scold me for not following rules that perpetuate racist attitudes, because I simply don’t have any respect for them.
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PS- Kimberly, thank you for reading! I hope you got all the way though it.
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Xion
Political speech in Black churches has a long historical tradition. I don’t particularly like political speech in churches of any sort, though I do understand why it happens.
As to rewards, I don’t think Obama does that. Listen to what he has to say on affirmative action. It isn’t the traditional liberal spiel about race.
I do have to ask what is so wrong with job training for non-dead beat Dads?
You know Xion you have been one of the fairer individuals on this board to me and it pains me to observe that maybe in this case, you are not giving Obama a fair shake. You don’t like his policy prescriptions, well, ok, but you are the one bringing in the racial element in ways that kind of surprise me.
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#62 CoyoteBlue – You have a point. Am I artificially injecting race into the discussion? If someone who didn’t have a background in black liberation theology gave that sermon and I were to take what he said at face value, I might say, “Right On!” about most of it. I’v3e admitted this several times already. So your observation there might be correct.
I admit that I do overreact about racism. I do not even believe in the concept of race. Some anthropologists have admitted this as well. There is no such thing as a Caucasoid or a Negroid. Ethnic traits are nothing more than similarities in family lineage. So, when filling out forms, I always answer the race question with the word ‘human’, because the very question disgusts me.
Favoritism based on skin color is racism. Affirmative Action is racist. Black liberation theology is racist. It is a false gospel that perpetuates a lie that keeps a people enslaved to politicians who use them. I oppose anyone who preaches that. It is contrary to Christianity.
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Xion: The problem is that government handouts tend to reinforce the behavior you are trying to curtail. Welfare checks keep people enslaved for generations. Handing out needles encourages more drug use. Giving a free pass to unqualified workers promotes the unqualified. Advancing people based on skin color promotes the very racism it is trying to prevent.
But of course, none of that has anything to do with what Obama was talking about.
The “government handouts” that he suggested, and that you’re whining about, are: (1) job training and (2) expanded earned income tax credit.
Job training is not a check, it’s a benefit that only benefits you if you plan to get and keep a job. This has the effect of making it more possible for the person to become self-sufficient and no longer in need of aid.
The Earned Income Tax Credit is also not a check; it’s a small reduction in income tax for working poor people who have children. The effect is to make it slighly easier to pay living expenses by paying slightly less tax. Certainly no more than a couple hundred bucks and probably less for most people.
Why would you begrudge poor people these small pieces of aid? Seriously, how hardhearted do you have to be to look in the face of a poor family and say, tough, I don’t want my tax dollars to help you escape poverty by paying for some job training?
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SteveG, what I think they are trying to tell you is that there have been these “small pieces of aid” for many decades now, and what we are faced with is fathers who don’t take care of their children, fathers who walk away en masse. It’s a real problem in the black community. There’s been a lot of aid already with nothing to show for it. That’s something “your side” doesn’t want to face up to. Your plan doesn’t work. It has never worked.
The “change” will come when the people themselves do the hard work to make the change, not through redistribution of wealth, not by embracing socialism. (That’s true for everyone.) That’s something else “your side” doesn’t want to face up to.
To the extent that Obama inspires black men to take responsibility for their children, I support him. Won’t vote for him, however.
(It has bothered me to learn that Father Phleger was given any of my tax money. That’s offensive.)
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Luke – Thank you for expressing your concern for my reading skills. As it happens, I read very well, thank you.
Perhaps I was not clear in my previous comment. I was referring to you calling Xion a racist. In my view, Xion was expressing disagreement, not anything actually racist.
You may disagree with my assessment. That’s fine. But please do not insult my reading ability or intelligence.
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Karen.
Oh I see. You’re intention was to point out that Xion is not a racist just because he disagrees with me, not that Xion is not a racist just because he disagrees with Obama. That does offer some clarification.
It doesn’t change my point though. I never offered “disagreement with Luke” as one of things that qualifies someone for being a racist. The actual qualification in question was:
“in your haste to banish all discussion of race you are only striving to create a world that is white by default, where white values, standards, and ideas have untold and unquestioned authority and where your white skin can continue to invisibly benefit and pad your life.”
That is a considerably more distinct charge than “failure to agree with Luke”!
It’s also one that no one on this blog has yet to address in any substantial way.
Maybe you’ll be the first, Karen!
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Luke – Actually, I meant the fact that he disagreed with Obama (or any other black person, for that matter).
As for your qualification, that strikes me as an assumption on your part.
The question of race is an extremely touchy one. There are certainly issues that need to be addressed. I don’t really see anyone claiming that these issues should be ignored, but rather a concern that they are the primary issue of a certain presidential candidate.
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“Actually, I meant the fact that he disagreed with Obama (or any other black person, for that matter).”
Oh, that is disappointing. I’ll refer you back to paragraph 1 of post 42.
“As for your qualification, that strikes me as an assumption on your part.”
Thank you for responding; we are half way there. Now can you please warrant your response? I would like to know what is your reason for think that my qualification is an assumption?
My reason for thinking it is not an assumption on my part is Xion’s words from post 10. I reacted directly to them in post 39.
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Obama is right that men should provide for their own families. I’d love to hear any politician champion abstinence until marriage, and then marriage for life to the same spouse as the solution to the underlying cause of the abandonment, which is not unprotected sex, but premarital sex. But I would be really surprised to hear Obama champion that point, because it would be judgmental according to many on the left (and the fiscal conservative/social liberals), and would cost him support. Furthermore, the absence of fathers empowers big, HUGE gov’t (which he advocates), because the pitiful circumstances of the abandoned pulls at our hearts, so we (read: our government) institute more programs and throw more money at the problem to prove how much we care. We’ll never be able to out-give the consequences of immorality and irresponsibility. We’ve got to provide not just assistance, but a moral framework to truly help. I think accountability must be part of any assistance, and it’s a shame that there isn’t much shame associated with premarital sex. Abortion is no solution, either–it only enhances the illusion that “free love” is really free. Its availability perpetuates irresponsibility, and lowers our overall value of human life.
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Luke – You & I obviously interpret Xion’s words differently.
I read the link you posted in #39. I can see her point, but I think that she takes it a bit too far. Is she in fact saying that merely being white makes one a racist, or did I read that into it?
Sorry I don’t have time to get into all this more deeply, but I will be considering what I have read.
BTW, what do you think the answer is to “white privilege”? What can the average white person do in his/her daily life to make a difference in something that is, if it indeed exists, part of the fabric of society?
Also, there are a lot of white people who can tell stories of blacks or other minorities being given preferential treatment on the job to avoid charges of racism.
Here in Conn., a officials in one of our large cities just threw out the exams taken by people (I forget if it was for the fire dept. or police) because not enough minorities took or passed the test. Many people are angry about this, asking which is more important – having qualified cops/firemen or racial diversity?
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I heard that the exams were thrown out because no blacks had passed the exams for promotions. Whites and Hispanics had passed. They were writing about this on the Volokh if you’re interested in the legal issues. There is the possibility that there might be rehearing of the case and/or that it will go to the Supremes. It does seem unfair, and I hope the Supremes take it.
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Thanks, NJL. I’d only heard a brief report about it this morning & was sketchy on the details.
I do believe that racial diversity in the police & fire depts. is a good thing, but not to be accomplished by “dumbing down” tests or requirements. Perhaps have special training.
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Karen,
Thank you for reading. I do think that you are confusing her point a little bit.
Her argument is not that all whites are racist.
She claims her experience with being taught about racism prepared her (and most the vast majority of white people) to think of racism only as something that disadvantages people of color and not as something that ADVANTAGES white people.
When you get pulled over in your car, you can most likely (I am assuming you are white) be sure that your race was not the reason why. And you are less likely to be ticketed! The advantages you have because of the effect of your whiteness are and should be thought of as racism, because they are real-world benefits conferred upon you because of your race that you didn’t earn.
Diversity in the police force is one of the ways to mitigate white privilege!
I don’t really know the situation with the police in your area, but I would ask you to consider the possibility that a standardized is written to “white values, standards, and ideas” which are given “untold and unquestioned authority” by the white power-structure to “benefit and pad” the lives of white people who can pass them. Just consider it; you very well may know more about this case than me.
Follow up question: If the tests are out, how are promotions being decided? Is it completely free of over sight? Are officers being promoted without the confidence of their superiors?
Follow up personal questions: Did you take the SAT? How did you do? Do you think that it accurately portrayed you’re ability to succeed?
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I agree with you Karen!
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you’re ability to succeed
you’re ability
you’re
Yes, I think the SAT is a fairly accurate representation of someone’s aptitude.
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- (A few excerpts from article) –
POLITICO
Muslims barred from picture at Obama event
By BEN SMITH | 6/18/08
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