Comments on: Speech and debate: One Christian vs. Several Muslims

By: Pauline

Pauline — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:09:02 +0000

Outkast,
The “man after God’s own heart” was David, who clearly repented of his sins. We have all those psalms he wrote that show us his humbleness before God, his longing for God, his desire for righteousness.

I don’t remember any passage that shows Lot repenting or that shows Lot wanting to do God’s will. He chooses Sodom for a home, he is reluctant to leave it and the angels have to take hold of him to get him out of the city. He doesn’t even want to go far away as they urge him to. If it weren’t for the verse in 2 Peter, would we have any reason to think he is righteous?

I know God is merciful, and that even people who have received His mercy sometimes do some pretty bad things (I know I have). But it seems strange to me that the verse in 2 Peter emphasizes Lot’s righteousness so much and how the sin around him bothered him so much (though you wonder why he would be reluctant to leave if it bothered him so much), rather than putting the emphasis on God’s mercy to such a miserable sinner.

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By: outkast

outkast — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:16:30 +0000

If you’re worried about men in the Bible who did evil things being called “righteous” or “a man after God’s own heart,” you must be bothered quite a bit.

The way I see it, we’re all sinners deserving of eternal hell-fire and brimstone. It’s only by God’s grace that ANY of us are saved from that judgement, and to read about how God called these (repentant, in the end) men “righteous” is a testimony to the wonderful grace of Jesus.

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By: Jane H

Jane H — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:26:51 +0000

Arcadia,

You’ve only done half the task. Now quote what Islam has to say about women and the way they are to be treated.

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By: Pauline

Pauline — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:29:16 +0000

NJLawyer,
Since the men in the crowd were intent on rape I think just about everyone would consider it unlawful, regardless of their stance on homosexuality.

I think Arcadia’s point is that a man who offered his virgin daughters to the mob is called righteous, a fact that has always rather bothered me.

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By: NJLawyer

NJLawyer — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:13:40 +0000

So Arcadia is admitting that those homosexuals who wanted the young men were doing unlawful deeds? Wow. That’s quite an admission there.

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By: arcadia

arcadia — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:35:14 +0000

Genesis:
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

1 Timothy
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

[Lot said]…Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes. …

2 Peter:

[God]… delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

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By: Nick H. Peters

Nick H. Peters — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:12:30 +0000

Interesting how people who believe so fervently in Islam want to move to (for now) Christians countries.

They take full advantage of what our societies have to offer, like free speech.

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By: Jane H

Jane H — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:17:59 +0000

I read the full article recently and thought it was very interesting. Most mission experts would tell you that “friendship evangelism” is the best way to reach the muslim world for Christ.

I grew up in a church close to Dearborn, Michigan. This church has always had a vision for reaching local muslims, and supported local missionaries, but as far as I know didn’t see many come to Christ.

I like Jay’s style. It seems to line up with how scripture tell us to proclaim the Word. It also seems to fit their culture.

I do wonder if anyone will follow through on the death threats they’ve made.

Some of his preaching is on YouTube.

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By: outkast

outkast — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 03:42:58 +0000

It’s notable that Jay can quickly quote Scriptures, but this Muslim must have his followers search for texts to refute them . . . and then still get them wrong.

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By: krm

krm — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 00:02:45 +0000

Many of the more vociferous Muslim debaters are very weak on the actual contents of the Koran as well as the Bible (which the Koran frequently refers back to, although often erroneously).

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