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Religion: Keeping the faith, in college and beyond
At the end of the summer, another wave of young people will head off to college, leaving behind misty-eyed parents who can’t help but wonder what impact the next four+ years will have on their son or daughter. One big question weighing on many parents’ minds: Will my kid lose his/her faith?
Studies show as many as 80 percent of college students shed their beliefs and faith practices during their undergraduate years. Reasons range from the rigorous questioning inherent in academic study to robust secular socializing.
Here’s some advice from religious leaders, who weighed in with words of wisdom for high school graduates on how to sustain their faith throughout the college years and beyond. What advice would you add?
Topic: Religion, WorldMagBlog
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Send your kids to schools where they still care about the Bible. Our son is going to Philadelphia Biblical University (formerly Philadelphia College of Bible) where past presidents include guys like Schofield and Ryrie.
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Live at home and go to a Christian college near there. If that’s not possible, get your courses online and have a local pastor proctor your studies.
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Go to a Christian college.
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stay in your prayer closet and don’t interact with the real world.
the more you learn about the world (ie go to college etc) the less likely you are to hold to your prior ignorance.
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The more you interact with the real world instead of indulging in the solipsistic provincialism of the secularists entrenched in their ivory towers, the more likely you will hold a Christian world view.
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College is when someone really comes into their own. They have to take off their parents mantle and become who they are.
I did this at a stat university. I took off my father’s atheism and my walk with the Lord deepened incredibly.
Kids need to know how to think for themselves and how to hear God’s voice for themselves. But for a parent it is always difficult for you child to make choices other than your own–Christian or otherwise.
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Actually (ironically?), I came to the faith in college (junior year). I used to be the smart aleck who mocked Christians. I suppose God does have a sense of humor.
Good points on # 5, Ken. I have a good friend who had spent most of his life in academia who found his perspective on many issues beginning to change once he entered the “read world” and began to work for a living (in his case, his liberalism began to slip away and he found himself, to his horror, beginning to think more like a conservative). His solution? He quit his job and returned to the ivory tower.
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If a child has grown up in a home that read the Bible, attended a church that taught the Bible, and saw Jesus’ teachings lived before them, they know the truth.
But since God has no grandchildren, they need to make their own choices and decisions about who God is. For some of us, that takes time and having to live with the difficult consequences of our choices.
My job as a parent is to teach them about God, and then to pray. Since God loves them more than I do, and He has the power of the Holy Spirit to work with in their lives, I have to trust that He knows what He is doing in my child’s life–especially if it doesn’t make sense to me.
I would love my children to go smoothly through life, one glorious Bible study and prayer time after another. But the nature of sin being what it is, I can only hope that they will go through life learning that God is to be trusted, Jesus will forgive and the Holy Spirit will direct–through all the difficulties to come.
My spiritual life grew enormously at UCLA. My faith was challenged constantly. Why wouldn’t I want the same for my children, difficult though it may be?
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Do any Christian colleges offer engineering majors?
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John M.
Yep, Grove City College, Grove City, PA. It’s a tough program–I had several friends go through it.
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Kristin – Every engineering program is tough. The material makes it that way no matter where it is taught.
Our graduated HS seniors just got back from the senior mission trip – 10 in Czech Republic (some manual labor & ESL work with local Christian teens), with side trips to Auschwitz in Poland and the Swiss Alps.
A week(+) with contemporaries battling to get by in an atheist culture and a good dose of the extent to which man’s depravity can taks us along with the glory of God’s creation.
The structure/discussion is geared to getting them ready to go to the next chapter in thier lives without losing their grounding in faith.
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John M.,
Cedarville University (in Cedarville, Ohio) offers majors in mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, and computer engineering, as well as a minor in biomedical engineering. They also offer an engineering co-op program. They have teams that participate in various design competitions (sponsored by ASME, ASEE, DOE, IEEE, etc.) and generally do very well.
(I’m not an engineer but I graduated from Cedarville and enjoy keeping up with what’s going on there.)
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Letourneau University in Longview Texas offers a engineering program.
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My boy was about 10 when he asked, “Dad, do you ever wonder if what we believe is really true?”
“Excellent question! How do you know whether ANYTHING is true?”
Shrugged his shoulders.
“On the one hand, you have “evidence and reasoning” and on the other, “someone says”. We use both to pursue the truth. A court of law uses evidence and reasoning and the word of witnesses. A scientific paper puts forth experimental evidence and reasoning, plus references to what other papers have said. If someone states something as being true, you can always ask how they know that. A proper response might be evidence and reasoning or so-and-so says, or a combination.”
“Lots of people think belief in Jesus Christ has no basis in evidence and reasoning. We need to present that evidence and reasoning to them.”
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I don’t know that there is any way that guarantees a “successful” outcome from going to college. Bricks and mortar simply don’t make Christians, communities do.
So my advice to the freshman would be to seek a college fellowship. This is especially if you are headed for a larger state school, or one of the elite schools. Having a place where you belong on campus not only satisfies certain social needs, it provides you with a network of friends who can help you navigate the University with its classes and problems.
As a parent, hopefully you’ve modeled what a Christian life looks. Also, you have made the college search a matter of prayer (for us, it meant that we raised questions about religion on our campus tours — schools that came across as wrong, or seemed to tolerate behavior we thought unhealthy like binge drinking… well they never made it to our application list).
The one thing I learned from our experience with our daughter’s time at the University was the lesson of trust, in her and in God who holds our lives in His hands. That was a challenge on our end, but we found that God was faithful.
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4-
“stay in your prayer closet and don’t interact with the real world”
Daniel from the old testament did both
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4-
“stay in your prayer closet and don’t interact with the real world”
Daniel from the old testament did both
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as a parent who is about to live this particular adventure, I plan a family webiste where we post photos of our past lives and current activities, and I plan to stay in touch with my son, to show respect for who he is and remain interested in him in a relationship like the trinity, rather than a fall-based hierarchy
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Reg –
What a big adventure in front of you! I love the Trinity analogy, too.
Web-based sites can work, tho’ I suspect that your son may already have his site at a social networking site like Facebook. Expect some privacy issues, here, however. Children — especially grown children — don’t always let you in. (True story: in the build-up to her wedding, our daughter kept a running blog but didn’t bother to tell her parents about it until 2 weeks before. We, of course, then feverishly devoured the site).
Other tools to think about might be a Flikr or other photo site — sharing your photos with one another could be one way to keep in touch. IM is also another way to keep linked. And surprisingly, the package and note from home can also be very powerful.
So, is the guy going far away?
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19-
He is not going too far from home.
And to clarify on the trinity style relationship, I should call it a relationship based on creation rather than on the fall. The trinity existed before the fall, and is our model. The results of the fall are not God’s “plan” for relationships.
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Christianity is a faith grounded in truth and supported by reason and evidence. When I was a bright, but callow and rebellious youth, I couldn’t wait to go to college and taste the forbidden fruit. Upon graduation, I was a hardened skeptic much like Erasmus, full of my own self-importance and self-pride, causing much grief for my parents. For the next 10 years (Viet Nam, Graduate School, and first three years of academic life) I honed my arguments against God and practiced them on any and all Christians I met. I found that the children of Christians were woefully weak in understanding the truths of their faith and the rationale basis for it.
At the same time, I was discovering that I had been poorly taught regarding the significance of critical findings in science, history, and Archeology. Then I encountered God and the house of cards (house built on sand) I had proudly constructed crashed down around me and I was reborn a zealot for Christ.
For years now I have urged parents to teach their children the grounds for belief in Christ that exist in every discipline of study available in College. If nothing else, send your children to World View Academy or any of the other wonderful summer institutes that teach them to defend their faith. Christians have nothing to fear from secular wits who would challenge their children’s faith if they have grounded them in the truths of Scripture and of nature.
You have seen the best of the skeptics arguments on this blog and you know they are full of sound and fury–signifying nothing. I have yet to meet an academic of any level of notoriety who does any better than our own resident skeptics. You have nothing to fear if you have taken the time to ground your children in their faith. God is not mocked. And the victory is already His.
One very easy thing to do is to expose your children to this blog and its archives when they are at the appropriate age (somewhere between 15 and 18). Then talk about what they read.
For the record, the Holy Spirit currently works deeply in both of my sons and their lovely wives. Soli Deus Gloria!!
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Somebody said “Send your kids to schools where they still care about the Bible.”
That’s good advice for people who don’t want their sons and daughters to find out how hopelessly stupid their parents are.
“Studies show as many as 80 percent of college students shed their beliefs and faith practices during their undergraduate years. Reasons range from the rigorous questioning inherent in academic study to robust secular socializing.”
That’s good news and it makes sense. The more educated people are, the more likely they will be able to recover from the child abuse called religious indoctrination.
Especially dangerous to the breathtaking stupidity of religious beliefs is science education. It’s for a good reason Christian extremists are constantly attacking science education, especially biology. The Christians who believe the made up stories in the worthless Bible know that biological evolution is the greatest threat to their idiotic Genesis myths.
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“Then I encountered God …”
How? Did you meet Mr. God in a bar or what?
Sorry, but your claim that you encountered God is really nuts. Nobody has ever seen your magical sky fairy and nobody ever will see it. Mr. God is just a fantasy for gullible people who are terrified of reality.
“Then I encountered God” is just another way of saying “I’m stupid.”
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Bobxxxx,
I don’t recall him stating in his post that he had ever seen God.
I bet you have never seen the wind either. Should we presume from your post that you don’t think it exists either?
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Boxxxx, ed, whoever,
You come off quite like the brother-in-law in Field of Dreams. You charge across the field in loud denial while the proof you are wrong plays a pleasant game of baseball “on a perfect afternoon.”
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#4 Erasmus
Is that what you did? Lose your previous fundamental faith? Do you have to prove that your former faith was silly, foolish and just plain wrong? I pray for your parents and family that they find their faith strengthened that Jesus will never leave you nor forsake you. May God give you back your childhood faith.
May the peace that passes understanding be with you now and forevermore.
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Here is what Jesus said (in Luke 6) to his disciples after they had been called and “in training” for a while:
For those with ears to hear…
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#24, you don’t see the ghost that lives in my house, the one that rattles chains and says “Boo” as I turn corners. You believe in it though, right? Of, if your rational, you think that maybe, just maybe there is some other explanation for what I’m experiencing (Insane, hoax or something else) You trust that my ghost must exist, right? Has anyone acutally seen the devil lately, I have a bone to pick with it.
Dr. Dave Now that you know God, will you rebuild you house in the same fashion, on the same spot of land? Will God protect you now or is it just as dangerous now as it was when it first happened?
To topic, all you can do is teach your kids and show them good values and morals. I, for one, would never trade my child for God NEVER. Tell your child that you’d trade them for God and I wonder how fast they’d rethink things. Now, roll the dice and take your chances. If you’re a good Christian, you’d murder your children in the name of God, if it asked you to. That’s the moral thing to do, right?
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A young man from our church just made the decision to enter fall semester at Grove City, PA for mechanical engineering. Him and his parents were at the get together this past weekend.
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Well Scott,
Plenty of folks give up their children for convenience these days, and that is a whole lot less reason than God…
And the folks who send their sons and daughters out on homicide bombings these days don’t happen to be Christians in case you hadn’t noticed.
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Re. engineering degrees … if you want to go conservative Bob Jones Univ. offers several varieties of engineering majors. Also, have you checked Wheato? (although that’s not really a Christian college anymore ….)
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Studies show you can’t shed something you don’t have.
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No, #30, it’s (being a lot less reason than god) not. The mere fact that you justify it like that speaks volumes. Also, Muslims, as much as you like to hate ‘em, are of that ilk. Neither has any market cornered on ludicrous behavior and choosing god over children.
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Yes, #33, it is. The mere fact that you justify abortion like that speaks volumes.
Also, I never said I hated Muslims. Try speaking the truth for a change. Like how much you hate Christians for example…
As for ludicrous behaviour, most Christians I know would never send their children on a homicide bombing mission, much less sacrifice their children on the alter of “convenience.” I defy you to equate those two things with counting a relationship with God as more important than anything else.
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“Will my kid lose his/her faith?”
I thought the Calvinists here believed that their kids couldn’t lose their faith – at college or anywhere else. Am I wrong?
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Two points. First none of these schools people have mentioned are highly ranked. If you are spending $20-30K for an education, you might want to think about actually getting a job or getting into grad school. The bible ain’t going to help with that.
Another point, and I mean this seriously. You can’t make people believe. You can’t even make your children believe. If you want them to believe model Christ in your life and let them go. If they drift, as many do, they will come back as many do. Or they will find their own faith. The fact that it may not be exactly the same as yours is not necessarily a bad thing.
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“First none of these schools people have mentioned are highly ranked. If you are spending $20-30K for an education, you might want to think about actually getting a job or getting into grad school>
Actually first might be the fact that the ranking system really stinks… There was a thread on that not too long ago that you might want to take a look at.
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you might want to think about actually getting a job or getting into grad school. The bible ain’t going to help with that.
Actually, it might. Good Christian universities are often known for producing honest, hard-working graduates that can be trusted to be hired. Graduates from these schools even look more professional, usually because they had an enforced dress code at their school!
Patrick Henry College has sent students to intern in the White House. BJU has too. Wheaton has had students participate in international studies. All have sent highly-qualified students to grad school.
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#33, abortion? Is that something I mentioned? I don’t think so. What is my position on that again?
The truth is that Christians are delusional. They believe in an all powerful beast who bosses them around all day and night and that asks them to put him over their family and children. I am not making this up, it’s right there in the Bible. Do you need a citation? Muslims believe in the same type of thing. The same ilk. You may not send your child out with bombs to kill in the name of Allah, but you would if your god asked you to… if you were a “TRUE” Christian, that is. I, for one, would NEVER do that, not matter what your god asked me to do. The fact is that I love my children more than I love your god. You should too.
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Scott by answering my question in #30 you were responding to my comment about abortion; ie. giving up children for the sake of convenience. In short murdering your own children – you know, that thing you accused Christians of doing? What did you think I was talking about?
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And there’s something else you should know.. From my perspective, God isn’t just asking us to put Him over our family and children, as the Creator of it all, HE IS over all. When we acknowledge that we’re merely seeing things in the correct relationship.
As for equating Islam with Christianity you’d gain a lot more credibility if you’d cease. There isn’t much of a comparison there. Insisting that there is only displays an ignorance. And after that display, insisting that you know better what Christians believe than they do is extremely ludicrous. Yes certainly the two religions share some common background, and yes both are mono-theistic, but the commonalities begin to diverge sharply upon the main tenet of Christianity – ie. the Person of Christ.
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DC Lawyer,
Actually I believe there are LeTourneau grads all over the planet that have done some impressive stuff. If I remember correctly, one was even in charge of the Alaska Pipeline project.
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#41 — Oh, “convenience” is abortion, gotcha! My bad.
Like I said, #41, you’d murder your children if your god commanded it; I would not. Muslim zealots, akin to evangelicals, would also do the same in the name of their god. Is this not true?
I know it’s uncomfortable to think about, but if your god asked you to murder your little daughter, would you? I know it’s a big IF, but he is your ultimate commander and perhaps it’s in his Divine Plan. The answer is a simple yes or no. Perhaps WMB can do a blog on this subject, I am enthralled just thinking about it.
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What has so angered you, Scott? As I read through your posts, I can just see the red rising in your face, and your fingers pounding the first words that come out of your head onto the keyboard. How does a post on Christian college education turn into, “All you crazy Christians would kill your own kids, wouldn’t you??” MIM has done a good job “trying” to converse with you, but it seems like a lost cause.
I love my children so much that I get teary-eyed this very moment thinking about how I raised my voice at one of them earlier this evening for nothing other than being tired. Yet I love my Savior soooo much more. And I know my children’s lives are left better in His hands than my own. I don’t think God will ever say, “Go get that gun and kill your child” (as it seems like you are trying to use an extemem example). But he may say, “Send your child to xxxx country as a missionary.” That may require his life–I would give it if asked.
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But he may say, “Send your child to xxxx country as a missionary.” That may require his life–I would give it if asked.
If your child’s old enough to be missionary, he’s old enough to make his own decision about whether to. You don’t get to “send” him.
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Point taken, SteveG, although I think you missed the point of what I was saying. I believe Scott’s “questions” are extreme–and I’ve known from the past that he tends to write like that…My point is just that I know God has better control of my children than I do; my husband and I have “given back” our children to God already anyway, since He’s given them to us.
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Ok, so Scott takes one instance of God asking Abraham to sacrifice his son, (and misses the point entirely) and wants to apply this situation as a “one size fits all” bandaid and say that all Christians are nuts enough to just shoot their kid in the head if they hear a little voice that tells them to.
Yep. He’s on to us folks. We better be careful.
You could at least try to listen Scott…
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I mean, instead of spouting your half-baked ideas of what you think Christians believe, you could at least ask us…
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I missed the point? The point that Abraham was SO happy to please his god and kill his son? Or the point that god said “nah, you don’t have to do that, but thanks for your loyalty?
Nonetheless, I asked you, now what’s your answer, please? I’ll remind you of the question (I presume you don’t speak for ALL Christians as I’ve heard that getting an opinion from them is like herding cats.
“if your god asked you to murder (for argument will say stone her to death, instead of murder) your little daughter, would you?”
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By the way, do you always have such a “pack” mentality. You use the work “Us” and “We”. By the way, when god talks to you, is it a voice in your head?
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No, when God talks to me it’s in printed form. It’s the Bible. I don’t hear little voices in my head.
Let me ’splain something that will give this issue context. You can even verify this as true in your own experience. When a person produces a product, whether it be a tool, or a food product, or medicine, that product belongs to them correct? So they have the right to sell it, or keep it, or give it away. Where does this right come from?
I posit that this right is established in the 10 commandments. “Thou Shalt Not Steal” is not only a negative commandment, it has a positive corrollary that you may own property, and that it’s protected from theft. This commandment flows from the fact that God created the world and all that is in it. Thus in my understanding God owns his creatures. All life is his, since it’s his creation. This, in addition to being made in God’s image, is what makes mankind’s life sacred. God prohibits murder, in the commandment “Thou Shalt Not Kill (the word “kill” better translated as murder- just ask any good scholar), and prescribes capital punishment if you commit murder.
So it wouldn’t be “murder” if God commanded or requested it.
Now as to the personal question of whether I would actually sacrifice my child if God asked it of me? That’s a really tough question, that I hope will remain moot… But if, as I have laid out, all life belongs to God, all that it is and means, flows from who he is, and who am I to turn that all on it’s head?
Now that I’ve answered your question, let me ask you one. When was the last time you heard God tell someone to kill their child?
And yes you missed the point about Abraham. Although you exagerate and twist it, you do get the minor point of Abraham’s “joy”. Abraham believed that God could make his descendants into a great nation even though he asked him to kill his only son that had taken so long to come. If necessary, Abraham thought God could even resurrect his son. But the larger picture is that Isaac was a type of Christ, and this was only a picture of what God did with Jesus.
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I was looking for a simple answer, Yes or No. I think you said yes, you would stone your child to death if your god commanded it. Granted, and I admitted it when I first asked the question, it’s a big IF. Clearly the Bible would have you choose god over your family and that makes you a good god-loving Christian.
Abraham, like you, would kill his child in the name of god. Sounds like a few Muslims I know (and many that I’ve read about). Call it twisting or critical review … seriously, think about it critically (if you can), how different is it from Islamic teachings? Both have the same result in the end. Death in the name of god.
Good day amigo.
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Scott – The thing is, God loves our children more than we can ever imagine. He would not command us to kill them.
The question you have asked of us is akin to asking you “If you had to kill one of your children, which one would you kill?” There is no way to answer that without feeling you’ve betrayed someone, but the circumstance would probably never happen to you anyway.
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Karen, agreed it’s a tough and uncomfortable question for Christians. But, the fact remains that there is only one correct answer for a Christian and that is to kill your child.
I, for one, know that I would pick my children over your god. For me, see, it’s easy. The analogy to “which” child to kill isn’t spot on because the answer isn’t written in the Bible (not that I know of), however, the choice between the god of the bible and your child is… you kill you child because you are to choose god over family. As uncomfortable as that makes you feel and as gross and detestable the thought, that’s the fact of the Christian bible. If I am wrong, please point me to the biblical citation.
By the way, agreed… it would probably never happen, but the fact of the matter is that the very thing HAPPENED in the bible, right there in black and white.
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Scott,
The fallacy you are trying to promote is that Christianity is the same as Islam, in that God asks us to sacrifice our children. In this you fail to recognize or simply gloss over the blatant fact that God is not asking Christians to send their children on suicide missions or even to kill their children. In fact God is telling us to be good responsible parents and to provide stable loving homes for them.
How is that the same thing as sending our children on suicide bombings?
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“I was looking for a simple answer, yes or no.”
Of course you were. You don’t want the facts to spoil your point.
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Scott, with all due respect (seriously), you mentioned on another post that your income exceeded the limit to receive a “stimulus check.” Assuming you are an intelligent man??, I would certainly appreciate it if your posts actually had a little more meat in them–a little more evidence of some reasoning and thinking skills, rather than just blowing up on the keyboard emotionally. I think MIM explained it the best you’re going to get it! Many of “us” (and we call us that because we *are* a family) have tried to actually answer some of your questions and explain why we feel that way; you keep coming back with the same immature explosions.
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And also, about the “voice in the head” question. I, too, hear His voice through His written word. But there are times I have heard Him through my conscience as well, I suppose in the form of the Holy Spirit. I have walked with the Lord long enough to know it is His voice, and not some little voice as you called it.
Blessings!
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John M – By the way, the engineering departments of large secular universities are surprisingly faith-friendly places. I was an agnostic at a top 5 engineering school (I think they are now just top 10)and started to come to faith there.
Bobxxxx – Religious belief is not contrary to high intelligence (at least as far as Christianity goes). Those who’ve been most enthusiasticaly trashing belief here have been doing so in a manner that shows their own misunderstanding and ignorance more than anything else.
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Sorry that you think it immature Momoffour, but when you argue with people who believe god, it’s difficult to reason with them. Try to reason with a 7 year old about why he should have cookies before dinner and you’ll know what I am talking about. I am SO serious and not kidding.
MIM clearly mangled my “immature” point that if his god asked him to kill his child, he would do it. Read your Bible, that’s a choice that IF it faced you, as a good Christian, heaven bound, you would have to make.
Again, I know it’s uncomfortable to think that your religion is like that but IF that all mighty god of your commands it that way, it’s your obligation. Him over your family. Fact. Read your bible, it’s there.
I know rethinking your faith is difficult and painful. You don’t have to do it if you don’t want to, but if you get back to the basics of the bible and what the words say and mean, you’ll understand. You’re personal attacks on my intellect or reasoning skills rise to the level of immature, for sure. But, you’re entitled to your opinion, just like the rest of us idiots.
Good day, sir/madam.
And MIM in #56, yes, it’s a simple answer, but speaks to the nature of your religion, whether or not you choose to believe it. The “yes” answer you provided is simply a pig with lipstick. Dressed up, but still a pig in the end, still a big at it’s most basic element. Back to basics.
Good day, amigo.
Oh, one more thing MIM, we, are humans have no “rights”. That’s a discussion for another day (in reference to your post of #51).
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Pig with lipstick indeed. Hmph!
The basic element which you so conveniently ignore is that God as Creator is the owner of all life, and he can do with it as he pleases. Doubly so, since man has been disobedient since way back when. We are now under a curse brought about by Adams willful disobedience.
Where you see something broken, I see wholeness. Where you see something that makes no sense, I see order and definition. Where you see something ugly, I see truth and beauty. Where you see something onerous, I see something truly liberating.
That which you place in such disregard is what brings truth, meaning, goodness and beauty to our lives. Only when we see God in his rightful place can we fulfill our true purpose.
Many people, even Christians, make the same mistake you are making. Where you see the Bible saying that God should be in first place above our families, I see God saying so much more than that. It’s incorrect to say that God should be in first place. More correctly, God is the ONLY person to occupy his rightful place. God is the only person who possibly could. Nothing else even comes close. When we place any other person or thing in HIS rightful place, then our flawed and limited viewpoint gets even more flawed and limited. This is because we try to solve our “problem” our own way. Our “problem” is that we want what we want, even though it’s bad for us.
I recently participated in an eye-opening class on the ten commandments. I say eye-opening because the commandments were explained in such a way as to actually make good logical sense.
I heartily recommend reading this series of sermons upon which the class was based:
http://doulomen.tripod.com/sermons/sermons_10command.htm
As you study the commandments it becomes more and more clear that when you have broken any one of the commandments, you have broken the first one. Only when you love and recognize God in his rightful place (and not just in “first place”- as if anything could come even a distant second) can you even hope to see how each of the commandments and their intended effects flow from who God is. When we truly love God, then obedience to the other half of his commandments, which have to do with loving mankind, naturally flow from this.
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In all sincerity, Scott, I did not mean to insult your intelligence by my earlier post. If I did, I apologize. I was the type of kid in high school who ran the opposite way when there was a fight in the halls–I absolutely can’t stand any confrontation. So I am not trying to “pick a fight” or argue with you just for arguments sake. Anyhow, I think enough has been said about the topic. I wasn’t even really involved in this “debate”, just wanted to put my 2 cents in, FWIW. When I was young in the faith, I used to ask myself extreme questions like what you’ve posed to us–”What if God asked me to…”
As I grew in my understanding of Him, those questions ceased because I understood how much He loves me (and you). When I look back now on things I knew God wanted me to do (that I did NOT want to do yet did them anyway), I can see why He asks some things.
Not sure if this helps at all. Good night!
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When the spam filter gets through gumming my last post to death, it will release it, albeit slightly delayed and slightly soggy. So expect that response just above this one in a few hours.
While that transpires, I’ll make another response about humans having no rights.
If as I assume you posit, there is no God, then of course we have no rights. There is no absolute meaning or truth, beauty, or morality, there is just “what is”, “what you like”, and only choices to be made.
But if I am correct, then truth and meaning, beauty, and morality are defined ultimately by our Creator. Thus, our Creator in the previously mentioned* commandments clearly sets forth if not rights, at least expectations for such things as property ownership, a good name, and peace.
Suffice it to say that we disagree quite a bit.
*The post which the spam filter is currently gumming to death before it releases it’s slobbery grip.
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I went to a Christian College. God found me there anyway. Some of you will know what I mean.
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Scott – In that Bible that you note (but don’t seem to understand very well), God instructed us to test everything purporting to come from God against Scripture. How would God instruct someone to kill one’s child so as to be consistent with Scripture? I just don’t see that happening, such that I have no need to even consider it.
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KRM’s comment at #59 reminded me that my older sister came to faith at an engineering school, Rennselaer Polytechnic Institute, through the friendship and witness of a group of Christians on campus. She later attended a Christian school and was disappointed at the shallowness of the faith of students there.
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Careful with the stereotype of the shallowness of students at Christian schools. (I know you weren’t stereotyping ALL Christian schools.) YOu’re going to have failures at every Christian school, just like at every Bible-believing church. Just because there are some who fall through the cracks at Christian schools (and I am referring to true Christian schools, not prep schools with a church name…) doesnt’ mean they are a failure.
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