Comments on: Religion: Keeping the faith, in college and beyond http://online.worldmag.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/ A forum for discussion of news that arises at the intersection of Christianity and culture. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:03:05 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: momoffour http://online.worldmag.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/comment-page-2/#comment-314730 momoffour Thu, 26 Jun 2008 00:59:32 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/#comment-314730 Careful with the stereotype of the shallowness of students at Christian schools. (I know you weren't stereotyping ALL Christian schools.) YOu're going to have failures at every Christian school, just like at every Bible-believing church. Just because there are some who fall through the cracks at Christian schools (and I am referring to true Christian schools, not prep schools with a church name...) doesnt' mean they are a failure. Careful with the stereotype of the shallowness of students at Christian schools. (I know you weren’t stereotyping ALL Christian schools.) YOu’re going to have failures at every Christian school, just like at every Bible-believing church. Just because there are some who fall through the cracks at Christian schools (and I am referring to true Christian schools, not prep schools with a church name…) doesnt’ mean they are a failure.

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]]> By: Pauline http://online.worldmag.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/comment-page-2/#comment-314710 Pauline Thu, 26 Jun 2008 00:19:07 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/#comment-314710 KRM's comment at #59 reminded me that my older sister came to faith at an engineering school, Rennselaer Polytechnic Institute, through the friendship and witness of a group of Christians on campus. She later attended a Christian school and was disappointed at the shallowness of the faith of students there. KRM’s comment at #59 reminded me that my older sister came to faith at an engineering school, Rennselaer Polytechnic Institute, through the friendship and witness of a group of Christians on campus. She later attended a Christian school and was disappointed at the shallowness of the faith of students there.

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]]> By: krm http://online.worldmag.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/comment-page-2/#comment-314615 krm Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:10:47 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/#comment-314615 Scott - In that Bible that you note (but don't seem to understand very well), God instructed us to test everything purporting to come from God against Scripture. How would God instruct someone to kill one's child so as to be consistent with Scripture? I just don't see that happening, such that I have no need to even consider it. Scott – In that Bible that you note (but don’t seem to understand very well), God instructed us to test everything purporting to come from God against Scripture. How would God instruct someone to kill one’s child so as to be consistent with Scripture? I just don’t see that happening, such that I have no need to even consider it.

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]]> By: Roger http://online.worldmag.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/comment-page-2/#comment-314397 Roger Wed, 25 Jun 2008 04:03:26 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/#comment-314397 I went to a Christian College. God found me there anyway. Some of you will know what I mean. I went to a Christian College. God found me there anyway. Some of you will know what I mean.

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]]> By: Make it Man http://online.worldmag.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/comment-page-2/#comment-314394 Make it Man Wed, 25 Jun 2008 03:49:39 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/#comment-314394 When the spam filter gets through gumming my last post to death, it will release it, albeit slightly delayed and slightly soggy. So expect that response just above this one in a few hours. While that transpires, I'll make another response about humans having no rights. If as I assume you posit, there is no God, then of course we have no rights. There is no absolute meaning or truth, beauty, or morality, there is just "what is", "what you like", and only choices to be made. But if I am correct, then truth and meaning, beauty, and morality are defined ultimately by our Creator. Thus, our Creator in the previously mentioned* commandments clearly sets forth if not rights, at least expectations for such things as property ownership, a good name, and peace. Suffice it to say that we disagree quite a bit. *The post which the spam filter is currently gumming to death before it releases it's slobbery grip. When the spam filter gets through gumming my last post to death, it will release it, albeit slightly delayed and slightly soggy. So expect that response just above this one in a few hours.

While that transpires, I’ll make another response about humans having no rights.

If as I assume you posit, there is no God, then of course we have no rights. There is no absolute meaning or truth, beauty, or morality, there is just “what is”, “what you like”, and only choices to be made.

But if I am correct, then truth and meaning, beauty, and morality are defined ultimately by our Creator. Thus, our Creator in the previously mentioned* commandments clearly sets forth if not rights, at least expectations for such things as property ownership, a good name, and peace.

Suffice it to say that we disagree quite a bit.

*The post which the spam filter is currently gumming to death before it releases it’s slobbery grip.

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]]> By: momoffour http://online.worldmag.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/comment-page-2/#comment-314393 momoffour Wed, 25 Jun 2008 03:48:39 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/#comment-314393 In all sincerity, Scott, I did not mean to insult your intelligence by my earlier post. If I did, I apologize. I was the type of kid in high school who ran the opposite way when there was a fight in the halls--I absolutely can't stand any confrontation. So I am not trying to "pick a fight" or argue with you just for arguments sake. Anyhow, I think enough has been said about the topic. I wasn't even really involved in this "debate", just wanted to put my 2 cents in, FWIW. When I was young in the faith, I used to ask myself extreme questions like what you've posed to us--"What if God asked me to..." As I grew in my understanding of Him, those questions ceased because I understood how much He loves me (and you). When I look back now on things I knew God wanted me to do (that I did NOT want to do yet did them anyway), I can see why He asks some things. Not sure if this helps at all. Good night! In all sincerity, Scott, I did not mean to insult your intelligence by my earlier post. If I did, I apologize. I was the type of kid in high school who ran the opposite way when there was a fight in the halls–I absolutely can’t stand any confrontation. So I am not trying to “pick a fight” or argue with you just for arguments sake. Anyhow, I think enough has been said about the topic. I wasn’t even really involved in this “debate”, just wanted to put my 2 cents in, FWIW. When I was young in the faith, I used to ask myself extreme questions like what you’ve posed to us–”What if God asked me to…”
As I grew in my understanding of Him, those questions ceased because I understood how much He loves me (and you). When I look back now on things I knew God wanted me to do (that I did NOT want to do yet did them anyway), I can see why He asks some things.

Not sure if this helps at all. Good night!

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]]> By: Make it Man http://online.worldmag.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/comment-page-2/#comment-314392 Make it Man Wed, 25 Jun 2008 03:38:14 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/#comment-314392 Pig with lipstick indeed. Hmph! The basic element which you so conveniently ignore is that God as Creator is the owner of all life, and he can do with it as he pleases. Doubly so, since man has been disobedient since way back when. We are now under a curse brought about by Adams willful disobedience. Where you see something broken, I see wholeness. Where you see something that makes no sense, I see order and definition. Where you see something ugly, I see truth and beauty. Where you see something onerous, I see something truly liberating. That which you place in such disregard is what brings truth, meaning, goodness and beauty to our lives. Only when we see God in his rightful place can we fulfill our true purpose. Many people, even Christians, make the same mistake you are making. Where you see the Bible saying that God should be in first place above our families, I see God saying so much more than that. It's incorrect to say that God should be in first place. More correctly, God is the ONLY person to occupy his rightful place. God is the only person who possibly could. Nothing else even comes close. When we place any other person or thing in HIS rightful place, then our flawed and limited viewpoint gets even more flawed and limited. This is because we try to solve our "problem" our own way. Our "problem" is that we want what we want, even though it's bad for us. I recently participated in an eye-opening class on the ten commandments. I say <i>eye-opening</i> because the commandments were explained in such a way as to actually make good logical sense. I heartily recommend reading this series of sermons upon which the class was based: http://doulomen.tripod.com/sermons/sermons_10command.htm As you study the commandments it becomes more and more clear that when you have broken any one of the commandments, you have broken the first one. Only when you love and recognize God in his rightful place (and not just in "first place"- as if <i>anything</i> could come even a distant second) can you even hope to see how each of the commandments and their intended effects flow from who God is. When we truly love God, then obedience to the other half of his commandments, which have to do with loving mankind, naturally flow from this. Pig with lipstick indeed. Hmph!

The basic element which you so conveniently ignore is that God as Creator is the owner of all life, and he can do with it as he pleases. Doubly so, since man has been disobedient since way back when. We are now under a curse brought about by Adams willful disobedience.

Where you see something broken, I see wholeness. Where you see something that makes no sense, I see order and definition. Where you see something ugly, I see truth and beauty. Where you see something onerous, I see something truly liberating.

That which you place in such disregard is what brings truth, meaning, goodness and beauty to our lives. Only when we see God in his rightful place can we fulfill our true purpose.

Many people, even Christians, make the same mistake you are making. Where you see the Bible saying that God should be in first place above our families, I see God saying so much more than that. It’s incorrect to say that God should be in first place. More correctly, God is the ONLY person to occupy his rightful place. God is the only person who possibly could. Nothing else even comes close. When we place any other person or thing in HIS rightful place, then our flawed and limited viewpoint gets even more flawed and limited. This is because we try to solve our “problem” our own way. Our “problem” is that we want what we want, even though it’s bad for us.

I recently participated in an eye-opening class on the ten commandments. I say eye-opening because the commandments were explained in such a way as to actually make good logical sense.

I heartily recommend reading this series of sermons upon which the class was based:

http://doulomen.tripod.com/sermons/sermons_10command.htm

As you study the commandments it becomes more and more clear that when you have broken any one of the commandments, you have broken the first one. Only when you love and recognize God in his rightful place (and not just in “first place”- as if anything could come even a distant second) can you even hope to see how each of the commandments and their intended effects flow from who God is. When we truly love God, then obedience to the other half of his commandments, which have to do with loving mankind, naturally flow from this.

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]]> By: scott http://online.worldmag.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/comment-page-2/#comment-314308 scott Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:07:15 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/#comment-314308 Sorry that you think it immature Momoffour, but when you argue with people who believe god, it's difficult to reason with them. Try to reason with a 7 year old about why he should have cookies before dinner and you'll know what I am talking about. I am SO serious and not kidding. MIM clearly mangled my "immature" point that if his god asked him to kill his child, he would do it. Read your Bible, that's a choice that IF it faced you, as a good Christian, heaven bound, you would have to make. Again, I know it's uncomfortable to think that your religion is like that but IF that all mighty god of your commands it that way, it's your obligation. Him over your family. Fact. Read your bible, it's there. I know rethinking your faith is difficult and painful. You don't have to do it if you don't want to, but if you get back to the basics of the bible and what the words say and mean, you'll understand. You're personal attacks on my intellect or reasoning skills rise to the level of immature, for sure. But, you're entitled to your opinion, just like the rest of us idiots. Good day, sir/madam. And MIM in #56, yes, it's a simple answer, but speaks to the nature of your religion, whether or not you choose to believe it. The "yes" answer you provided is simply a pig with lipstick. Dressed up, but still a pig in the end, still a big at it's most basic element. Back to basics. Good day, amigo. Oh, one more thing MIM, we, are humans have no "rights". That's a discussion for another day (in reference to your post of #51). Sorry that you think it immature Momoffour, but when you argue with people who believe god, it’s difficult to reason with them. Try to reason with a 7 year old about why he should have cookies before dinner and you’ll know what I am talking about. I am SO serious and not kidding.

MIM clearly mangled my “immature” point that if his god asked him to kill his child, he would do it. Read your Bible, that’s a choice that IF it faced you, as a good Christian, heaven bound, you would have to make.

Again, I know it’s uncomfortable to think that your religion is like that but IF that all mighty god of your commands it that way, it’s your obligation. Him over your family. Fact. Read your bible, it’s there.

I know rethinking your faith is difficult and painful. You don’t have to do it if you don’t want to, but if you get back to the basics of the bible and what the words say and mean, you’ll understand. You’re personal attacks on my intellect or reasoning skills rise to the level of immature, for sure. But, you’re entitled to your opinion, just like the rest of us idiots.

Good day, sir/madam.

And MIM in #56, yes, it’s a simple answer, but speaks to the nature of your religion, whether or not you choose to believe it. The “yes” answer you provided is simply a pig with lipstick. Dressed up, but still a pig in the end, still a big at it’s most basic element. Back to basics.

Good day, amigo.

Oh, one more thing MIM, we, are humans have no “rights”. That’s a discussion for another day (in reference to your post of #51).

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]]> By: krm http://online.worldmag.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/comment-page-2/#comment-314253 krm Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:30:11 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/#comment-314253 John M - By the way, the engineering departments of large secular universities are surprisingly faith-friendly places. I was an agnostic at a top 5 engineering school (I think they are now just top 10)and started to come to faith there. Bobxxxx - Religious belief is not contrary to high intelligence (at least as far as Christianity goes). Those who've been most enthusiasticaly trashing belief here have been doing so in a manner that shows their own misunderstanding and ignorance more than anything else. John M – By the way, the engineering departments of large secular universities are surprisingly faith-friendly places. I was an agnostic at a top 5 engineering school (I think they are now just top 10)and started to come to faith there.

Bobxxxx – Religious belief is not contrary to high intelligence (at least as far as Christianity goes). Those who’ve been most enthusiasticaly trashing belief here have been doing so in a manner that shows their own misunderstanding and ignorance more than anything else.

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]]> By: momoffour http://online.worldmag.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/comment-page-2/#comment-314210 momoffour Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:34:37 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/06/21/religion-keeping-the-faith-in-college-and-beyond/#comment-314210 And also, about the "voice in the head" question. I, too, hear His voice through His written word. But there are times I have heard Him through my conscience as well, I suppose in the form of the Holy Spirit. I have walked with the Lord long enough to know it is His voice, and not some little voice as you called it. Blessings! And also, about the “voice in the head” question. I, too, hear His voice through His written word. But there are times I have heard Him through my conscience as well, I suppose in the form of the Holy Spirit. I have walked with the Lord long enough to know it is His voice, and not some little voice as you called it.

Blessings!

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