Meditation on a Buddhist chapel
I walk past a Buddhist chapel every morning. It used to be a church. (Reminds me of the many Unitarian structures in
By the time I get to the
And make no mistake that it is lesser. The impersonal is not higher and more transcendent than the Personal; it is a big step down. An impersonal force behind all creation (if it existed) would be like the Creator we know — but with something subtracted from Him. It would be “It,” not “Him.” We humans would find ourselves in the curious position of being superior to the force that spit us out! More highly evolved. Here we are, equipped with awesome capacities — to love, to grieve, to desire, to aspire, to trust, to have relationship, to know courage. And our “creator” is meanwhile mute and uni-dimensional.
Moreover, concepts we are hard-wired with, such as “guilt,” “fellowship,” “rebellion,” and “thankfulness” would have no meaning or intelligible origin in an impersonal universe. What a bizarre rebel is man to concoct such a faith as Buddhism.




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back to top31 Comments to “Meditation on a Buddhist chapel”
My guess would be an impersonal force wouldn’t really care what you do, while a personal God who knows you and wants the best for you, does care.
If you think you’re on your own you’re free-er to do whatever you please. If you think God may be disappointed in your choices, indeed, have suggested other options, you will be less free.
This reminds me of a discussion about judgment we had on Sunday. I concluded several years ago after teaching a Bible study on judgment that I have no right to voice personal judgments about people unless I am in a mutual relationship with them–I am willing to accept them passing similar judgment on me. Therefore, I need to keep my mouth shut (as in not gossip) unless I’m in mutual submission to the person I want to judge.
It’s the personal relationship that makes the difference.
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“It beats me why middle-class, Caucasian, former nominal Christians in my town would go to this place — why they would prefer an impersonal reality over a Personal one.”
When something “beats me” I have found it best to go sit next to whoever it is. Ask them. But I must listen to their answers. That is, I can’t just hear their words while formulating a presupposed answer in my head. And I can’t pass judgement. The first judgement I have over almost any situation is wrong. Listen. Then I bring their souls before God in prayer and am always amazed at His answer.
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The Buddhists in this nation are fewer than the Pentecostalists. The Dalai Llama has a numerically miniscule following, and the media attention it receives is way way out of line with that sect’s impact.
I love the fact that His Holiness urges independence and resistance to the ChiComms, but he does his urging mainly from the safety of Hollywood or NYC. Imagine had MLK Jr led the civil rights movemt from Canberra or Toronto.
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Adios,
Thanks for those words. Please pray for me as I try to listen to one who is, oh so close, and oh so dear, but I just don’t understand why they are making such heartbreaking choices, which are so obviously against their very nature, and against God’s very design, and against acceptance of the preponderance of evidence. And pray that I will bring them before God..
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“By the time I get to the Won Buddhist Temple on Parkdale Avenue I have already spoken volumes to the Lord, and gotten volumes back.”
“I briefly did meditation in college. I have a sneaking suspicion that whatever insights I gained in that void were just me talking to myself.”
I still don’t really understand how the subjective approach to God in the second quote is much different than the subjective approach to God in the first.
Granted the Christian is looking towards a person rather than an “it”. But members of both traditions respond to a subjective thought in their head and embrace it as “truth” or “God”. How is Andree’s in-her-head-conversation with God any different than the Buddists in-their-head relationship with an impersonal being?
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Outdeep, your understanding of Christian faith is rather shallow. Christians on very good Biblical and rational evidence believe in Christ the resurrected Son of God and a Trinity that pays attention to our prayer. That is why Andree’s volumes in both directions are important. Your notion of it all being some sort of a “subjective approach” is based on a mere modern myth that comes down from the now tattered, torn, and thin set of ideas from the “enlightenment.”
Christians have dealt with cultural despisers of religion, like you, for millennia.
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Peter Leavitt,
Outdeep is actually one of us born-agains, he just doesn’t beleive God talks to us or that the Bible can speak directly into our lives. So he is not really a despiser of religion as relationship.
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Oops my last sentence didn’t come out right. Outdeep does dispise relationship either, he just hasn’t gotten past the voice in your head, the conscience of heart and that all together other still small voice of the Spirit.
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Oops x2, that should read Outddeep doesn’t dispise . . . and, of course, I am surmising as well as not typing very well.
Forgive me Outdeep.
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OK, clarification.
I am a firm believer in Christ. I don’t reject the idea that God can speak to us and leads us. I strongly affirm Andree’s point that God is a Person vs. an impersonal force.
I just don’t fully understand God’s leading on a subjective level. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist. I just see lots of potential of hearing my own voice in my head and calling it “God”.
That is more of the motivation in my comment. For someone who truly hears God’s voice in a inner and subjective level, how do they know it is God’s voice and not there own and how does it differ from what the Buddists are doing?
I mean these as honest questions, not confrontation.
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“Heartbreaking stories surely lay behind those real estate transactions.”
If anyone is interested in discussing those real estate transactions just let me know. Long story short: There actually weren’t any. Preachers in the “Calvinist” Congregational Church embraced Arminianism and then theological unitarianism. Eventually the Calvinist left the Congregational Church leaving the Unitarians behind. Some of those Calvinists attempted to seize control of the real estate but lost.
John Adams’ own Congregational minister was a unitarian by 1750 as was Adams.
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My apologies, Outdeep, I took your comment at #5 to be that of a secular skeptic about religion.
In answer to your heartfelt question, no one can know for sure in any logical way that our prayer life is for real, though on a firm basis of belief it proves for serious believers, like Andree, to be very real.
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#11,
Jon,
That’s interesting. I grew up in a Congregationalist church in New England, and while it wasn’t Unitarian, the ideas and attitudes didn’t seem too much different from my uncle’s Unitarianism. I was surprised to find out as an adult (having left that church as a teenager) that early in its history it might have had some traces of Calvinism, and even in my father’s childhood might have held to some kind of doctrinal orthodoxy. (By the time he married my mother, they told her she was welcome to join regardless of whether she believed what was in their official Statement of Faith.)
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I liked Outdeep’s question, and would like a thoughtful reply…
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I’d like to see thoughtful, biblical replies to Outdeep’s question, too. I’ve been struggling with that for a while as thoughts I thought were God’s to me, turned out very wrong and therefore were not His after all. So although I spend hours daily in meditation on His word and speaking to Him, I am wary of what I think I’m hearing back. Especially if it’s something I really want to “hear.”
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Pauline, in the New England town that I live in the Unitarian Church has a skeleton congregation; the Trinitarian Congregational Church is thriving with an orthodox trinitarian pastor. In fact most Unitarian churches in New England are sparsely populated. I fear that they have made the error of taking the divinity from Christ and bestowing it upon their poor selves.
The Unitarians in the Nineteenth Century suffered the pious illusion that the Trinitarian faith was a relic of the past that would soon pass away. Ironically, what has happened in many New England towns is that the Trinitarian churches are thriving while the Unitarian ones are moribund, however politically fashionable.
Jon Rowe, Adams was far from being a Unitarian. Page Smith in his classic two-volume biography of Adams writes about him as follows:
In theology he steered a middle course between skepticism and deism on one side and Calvinist orthodoxy on the other….Adams was as determined to hold to the reality of a personal God and life beyond death, as he was to eschew Calvin’s insistence on predestination, infant damnation, and other tenets held in strictest observance by his Braintree forbears.
Adams would be appalled by the syncretism and paganism espoused by modern Unitarians. The Unitarian Church in my town has a group of Wiccans who are allowed to preach their absurdity.
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Adams may not have been a Unitarian as today’s Church understands itself, yet he was a proud self identified Unitarian. Back then it mean simply someone who denied the Trinity and other related doctrines of orthodoxy. From the horses mouth:
I thank you for your favour of the 10th and the pamphlet enclosed, “American Unitarianism.” I have turned over its leaves and have found nothing that was not familiarly known to me.
In the preface Unitarianism is represented as only thirty years old in New England. I can testify as a Witness to its old age. Sixty five years ago my own minister the Reverend Samuel Bryant, Dr. Johnathan Mayhew of the west Church in Boston, the Reverend Mr. Shute of Hingham, the Reverend John Brown of Cohasset & perhaps equal to all if not above all the Reverend Mr. Gay of Hingham were Unitarians. Among the Laity how many could I name, Lawyers, Physicians, Tradesman, farmers!
– John Adams to Jedidiah Morse, May 15, 1815. Adams Papers (microfilm), reel 122, Library of Congress.
And:
We Unitarians, one of whom I have had the Honour to be, for more than sixty Years, do not indulge our Malignity in profane Cursing and Swearing, against you Calvinists; one of whom I know not how long you have been. You and I, once saw Calvin and Arius, on the Plafond of the Cathedral of St. John the Second in Spain roasting in the Flames of Hell. We Unitarians do not delight in thinking that Plato and Cicero, Tacitus Quintilian Plyny and even Diderot, are sweltering under the scalding drops of divine Vengeance, for all Eternity.
– John Adams to John Quincy Adams, March 28, 1816, Ibid, reel 430.
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“It beats me why middle-class, Caucasian, former nominal Christians in my town would go to this place — why they would prefer an impersonal reality over a Personal one.”
The answer to why is quite simple at least for Christians and little children.
“The devil made me do it.”
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And btw Peter, Page Smith’s description of Adams’ religion as being somewhere between Deism on the one hand and orthodox Christianity on the other is exactly what “unitarianism” or “theistic rationalism” is.
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JonRowe, John Adams did get caught up in the fashionable Deist movement of his time, though as Page Smith remarked he did try to steer a middle course between it and Calvinism. It is significant that the Deist moment in American history passed quickly and that Adam’s son John Quincy Adams became an unambiguously devout Calvinist Christian.
You in your writings tend to amusingly exaggerate the influence of Deism and Unitarianism on American history. For a more fair account of this matter, I should suggest that you read Avery Cardinal Dulles’ article in First Things, The Deist Minimum, including the following:
The deist outlook also gained a foothold in the American colonies, where it became popular among the rich and well-born about the time of the Revolution. Of the fifty-six signers of the Declaration of Independence, the theological leanings of some twenty have been identified. Three have been characterized as deists: Benjamin Franklin of Pennsylvania, Thomas Jefferson of Virginia, and Stephen Hopkins of Rhode Island. Two others, John Adams of Massachusetts and George Wythe of Virginia, are described as liberal Christians strongly influenced by deism. Four, including Jefferson’s friend Benjamin Rush, were liberals not inclined toward deism. About eleven were definitely orthodox believers. Samuel Huntington, Philip Livingston, and John Witherspoon, president of Princeton University, were prominent in this last group….
In the closing decades of the eighteenth century, deism in the United States, as elsewhere, seemed to be sweeping everything before it. But early in the nineteenth century, the deist tide began to recede. The first half of the nineteenth century witnessed a significant revival of Christianity, both Protestant and Catholic. The preachers of the second Great Awakening were especially successful in rural America, where they aroused a highly emotional biblically based religion. While Unitarianism survived and even experienced some growth in New England, it lost its specifically deist features: the sharp dichotomy between faith and reason, the deductivist natural theology, the separation between God and the world, and the idea of Jesus as teacher of the natural law. Deism therefore may be said to have perished, not only in the United States but also in England, France, and Germany.
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Why would Buddhists want to move to (until recently) an overwhelmingly Christian country?
Don’t their actions speak far louder than any platitudes they could spout about Buddhism?
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Dulles article is good and is largely consistent with what I have written.
John Quincy Adams vacillated between orthodox Calvinism and Unitarianism his entire life. When Adams writes the letter to junior, you can see from the context that his son seems to be in a Calvinist “phase.”
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Getting back to Outdeep’s question in #10:
For someone who truly hears God’s voice in a inner and subjective level, how do they know it is God’s voice and not there own and how does it differ from what the Buddists are doing?
I don’t know that there is a definitive answer to this other than that the Bible says, “Call to Me and I will answer you” (Jeremiah 33:3) and (speaking of the Good Shepherd) “his sheep follow him because they know his voice” (John 10:4). The bottom line, to me, is that I must trust God to answer me (and to steer me away from falsehood) when I am truly seeking Him. He doesn’t give me anything more than faith to work with, because my relationship with Him must be based on faith. I can’t insist that God make Himself clear; all I can do is call on and humbly open myself up to Jesus Christ, trusting Him to live up to His promise to guide and protect me.
The difference between this and what the Buddhists are doing may not be evident from our perspective, but I think from God’s perspective (which is the only true one) it’s similar to the difference between calling your father and dialing a random phone number. In the latter case you may or may not get a connection, but whatever voice you hear certainly will not be that of someone who knows and loves you.
Doreen in #15 says “thoughts I thought were God’s to me, turned out very wrong and therefore were not His after all. So although I spend hours daily in meditation on His word and speaking to Him, I am wary of what I think I’m hearing back. Especially if it’s something I really want to “hear.””
It’s true that we can easily deceive ourselves into thinking God is saying something to us that He’s not. But I’ve found that each time this happens to me, I can look back and see how I allowed myself to be deceived, often even ignoring a little “stop” in my heart. It’s good to be wary and conscious of my capacity for self-deception, but it’s not good to refuse to listen. The key, for me, is that I must surrender my will as fully as I am able, and ask the Lord to purify my heart so I am truly seeking Him and not just seeking to be affirmed in what I want. Seeking to hear from God is essential to relationship with Him, but it is a process that ultimately kills our flesh.
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Nick Peters,
That Buddhist chapel is probably not attended primarily by Buddhists who moved here from elsewhere, but by “middle-class, Caucasian, former nominal Christians,” as Andree said. Several decades ago Eastern religion got popular with a lot of people in this country who preferred it to the Christianity they had grown up with.
There are a lot of people who want some kind of spirituality because they sense that life is more than the physical dimension that we can test and measure in the lab. But they have been turned off Christianity for various reasons, whether over the problem of why a personal loving God would allow evil, the idea of people of other religions going to hell, or behavior by professed Christians that seems very un-Christian.
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Regarding Outdeep’s question (which I have asked myself a lot also):
The advice I was given by an older Christian when I was struggling with this a number of years ago, is to test anything that I thought was God speaking to me by these two criteria:
1. Is it in line with Scriptural teaching?
2. Will doing this lead to an increase in love, joy, peace, etc. (the fruit of the Spirit in Gal. 5:22-23)?
If it meets those two criteria, she said I could feel confident that it was God’s voice. Whether it is God’s voice speaking directly to me at the time when I’m praying, or through my own understanding of His purposes, developed over years of hearing Him speak through Scripture and through people teaching and preaching from Scripture, is not really important to determine.
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Maybe people become Buddhist because in their minds, hearts and consciences, they know it to be the true path?
Other than waving your Bible at them and insisting that Buddhism isn’t Biblical (to which they would say, ‘duh’), what argument do any of you have against that?
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Every good and perfect gift is from Above. When I have a good idea, it is from God. When I am happy, it is from God. When I speak kindly to my little brothers, it is from God. Thank you God, for giving me truck loads back!
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Thank you Pauline. I think that’s a good answer to the question. One wishes for something at once even more personal and more concrete (like a Theophany perhaps?), but the written word must suffice I suppose…
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It beats me why middle-class, Caucasian, former nominal Christians in my town would go to this place — why they would prefer an impersonal reality over a Personal one.
I wonder if Buddhists walk past churches and think, “Why would they prefer this anthropomorphised, personalised reality over an impersonal one?”
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It beats me why middle-class, Caucasian, former nominal Christians in my town would go to this place — why they would prefer an impersonal reality over a Personal one.
I don’t know much about Buddhism, but I know an awful lot about Christianity, having been a fervent evangelical for well over 10 years. Maybe they realized, like me and many others, the Bible contains much wisdom, along with a whole bunch of nonsense, superstition, and fairy tales. I turned to Deism; they turned to Buddhism, but the critical factor in both cases was coming to the realization that the Bible, with its three headed god who came to earth and yet didn’t, and is dying to save everybody but can’t, and who is so holy that he has no choice but to send billions of unclean sinners to a lake of fire for eternity but has no problem inviting Satan into his presence to make wagers about tempting Job, that says when man moved from running around naked devoid of moral understanding to wearing clothes and knowing the difference between right and wrong this was some sort of “Fall”…isn’t “the word of God.”
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Why does Peter Leavitt continue to lie about this subject? Jon Rowe has come on here repeatedly and provided quotes from Adams’ own correspondence where he freely talks about being a Unitarian and openly rejects cardinal doctrines of the Bible. Usually in response to Leavitt or another evangelical on here claiming Adams as one of their own. Then, a few months later, Leavitt is back repeating the same lies – “Adams was far from being a Unitarian” – as if he didn’t know any better. Then when JR comes back on and provides the irrefutable evidence that he certainly was a Unitarian, Leavitt refuses to apologize for trotting out his old lies, and changes the subject. And in a few months, he’ll pull the same stunt again.
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