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The hillbillies have it
Never mind Florida or Michigan, says Newsweek’s Steve Tuttle: “In a close election come November, the difference between President McCain and President Obama could come down to me and my people: a bunch of ornery, racist, coal-minin’, banjo-pickin’, Scots-Irish hillbillies clinging to our guns and religion on the side of some Godforsaken, moonshine-soaked ridge in West Virginia.”
Recognizing this fact, Democrats went out of their way during the spring primaries to pander to the people of Appalachia. But Tuttle says that in itself was both comical and depressing because it highlighted how clueless people still are about the region. Which is why Tuttle says it’s time to start taking seriously a vast portion of our country that’s long been distorted by prejudice and pop culture.
In the coming months, McCain and Obama will, like the long line of candidates who came before them, descend on Appalachia bearing plenty of promises. The truth is, there’s not much any president can do to change things in four or eight years. What they can do is simply take the place and its people seriously. Folks know when a politician is using them as stage props. John Kerry didn’t sound believable last time around when he tried to pass himself off as a NASCAR fan. And no one in West Virginia thinks Obama actually kicks back with a bottle of Bud. If I could give advice to the candidates and their handlers, it would be this: don’t pretend, don’t condescend. (I made that rhyme so it would be easier to remember.) Andy Griffith, the patron saint of Southern culture whose mythical Mayberry sat on the edge of Appalachia, once said of his classic TV show: “We wanted them to laugh with us, not at us.”
And the candidate who understands this will reap quite a harvest come Election Day.
back to top47 Comments to “The hillbillies have it”
a harvest at the expense of appalachians. neither of these candidates (nay, nor the system itself) has the interests of this region at heart. only cheap labor, cheap energy sources and to heck with the way of life that built this area.
since neither candidate will condemn mountain top removal coal mining, a pox on both of their houses.
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why didn’t you include the choice part about Cheney’s bourgeoisie comments about west virginia family trees? seems like an ignorance of what is important to holler people is a pre-requisite for being a politician these days.
just look at Beth Walker, running for state Supreme Court in WVa for proof.
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Cheney isn’t running for any office so there’s no point to including his comment in a post on the upcoming election. It’s irrelevant.
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Do they still make moonshine in West Virginia?
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NJLAWYER,
Don’t you know that McCain is just an older more evil Cheney with a better heart? At least that is what the left handed piggies think but, they believe what ever swill their slave master slop their way.
It is nice to know that us hillbillies will rule the free world again. Can’t wait to see who is going to give us the pot and who is going to provide the chicken this time. Well, who ever gives us the pot still and some cheap corn will win for sure
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NJL #3- Don’t forget the at the Left is running against Bush/Cheney since they think McCain is going to extend their term.
As for pandering- Isn’t that what all candidates do to get elected? Obama only became a black candidate when it was expedient to do so. He uses that phony, ghetto-esque accent when speaking to blacks, but goes back to his more cultured tone in a white crowd.
McCain goes around to all the Right-Wing hot spots to pander to them, including his visit with Rev. Graham last weekend. He knows that no Republican candidate can miss that opportunity.
I wish we could hear the candidates speak directly to the issues at hand without the sound bite lines used to get on the evening news. I wish the debates were actual debates, on not a rehashing the campaign speeches. It is no wonder we can barely get 50% of the eligible voters to show up in November.
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Appalachian hillbillies would be the last ones to fall for Obama’s rhetorical moonshine. They, admiring real courage, well understand John McCain.
When they find out that Obama has amassed a mostly liberal record on gun control- he supports a proposal to override state “concealed-carry” laws with a nationwide ban on concealed weapons- that will clinch it. These people are fighters, as is John McCain.
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Steve Tuttle: In a close election come November, the difference between President McCain and President Obama could come down to me and my people: a bunch of ornery, racist, coal-minin’, banjo-pickin’, Scots-Irish hillbillies clinging to our guns and religion on the side of some Godforsaken, moonshine-soaked ridge in West Virginia.
Frank: Which is one reason why Obama should pick Scots-Irish “hillbilly” Sen. Jim Webb as his Veep.
That and the fact that Webb is graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy, a former Marine Corps infantry officer and highly decorated Vietnam War combat veteran.
And the fact that he was Secretary of the Navy under Reagan.
[BTW: I'm 100% Polack myself so I don't know -- but isn't "hillbilly" a slur? ("Polack" is only a slur depending on how you use it.) Is it okay to use "hillbilly" here because Tuttle uses the term about his own people? E.g., could Walter Williams get away with writing, "In a close election come November, the difference between President McCain and President Obama could come down to the nigga vote"?]
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Frank, where have you been? If you’re actually in ethnic group X you can employ any and all slurs forbidden for anyone else NOT IN THAT GROUP to use. Think of how numerous raunch black comedians were able to use language which would have (did!) get a whitey fired.
The best thing for Appalachia? Complete tax holiday for businesses and individuals living/working there. Property values would zoom to the stratosphere.
By the way, West Va University is a leader in fields too numerous to cite for yall here. Went to a wedding in Morgantown. We were billeted just across the street from the regional trauma hospital. Not a single EMS chopper crashed despite their frequency going in and out.
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Peter L writes to me: “NJL #3- Don’t forget the at the Left is running against Bush/Cheney since they think McCain is going to extend their term.”
I don’t forget.
I think they KNOW very well that McCain is NOT George Bush and Dick Cheney, but they want others to believe that it will be 100% the same if McCain wins. This is purposeful, it is unfair, which is why I said Bush/Cheney is irrelevant. Every time I hear it, read it, I plan to remind people that McCain is NOT Bush. (And that includes my good friend Frank with his “Juan McSame.”
)
I, too, would like to have a real debate. I like those town hall meetings when “real” people can ask questions. I think it is a good thing that McCain keeps doing them, even on his own. Apparently, Obama doesn’t like them. Don’t know what the orator is afraid of, however.
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Who here can recall seeing RFK tour the Appalachians? I even recall seeing LBJ on a photo opp standing on the porch of one of the first medicaid recipients.
The poor ye shall always have with ye?
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NJL actually we realize that it will be pretty much the same no matter which sack of meat is sitting at the desk.
Cheney’s comments are certainly apropos, as my point was (if you would mind reading it again) “an ignorance of what is important to holler people is a pre-requisite for being a politician these days.”
all you need are corn and beans and taters and some fresh greens or fish from the creek. this fossil fuel based economy undercuts all of those essential needs, from destroying soils and aquifiers to forcing humans into unnatural employment situations just to pay the bills to keep the hamster wheel turning.
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Both candidates have been accused of filp-flopping lately. Has anyone noticed that the direction of all the recent flip-flops have been to the right?
McCain has been one of the most left-friendly Republicans in the senate and Obama is the most leftist Democrat in the senate. But it is becoming obvious that the bulk of the “undecideds” in the country at this moment are on the right.
So the rhetoric is leaning right. Fine, but it’s still nothing but campaign rhetoric.
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Appalachia is a Republican bastion. Pat Buchanan advises Democrats not to waste their time there. The only extent to which Appalachia counts for Obama is at the fringes — western parts of Virginia and North Carolina — a long shot — and southern Ohio and Indiana. If the Newsweek columnist thinks West Virginia can make a difference in the electoral college, he’s drinking something. McCain doesn’t have to do anything to win the votes of Appalachians. His advantage against Obama is, by the admission of thousands of primary voters, inborn.
Does Tuttle really think that Beverly Hillbillies and Mayberry are anything other than encomiums of the hill people they portray? Remember, the cardboard stereotypes are the bank president and hollywood stars.
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Erasmus, to me the tone of your posts is a little condescending towards the “hillbillies.” Whether that was intentional or not, it’s how the post hit me. My parents weren’t raised in this country, so I didn’t learn about hillbillies and rednecks, among other names people are called here. Even the names Italians are called in NJ were learned about as I got older. Southerners are still treated as if they all think the same old evil way about blacks, and it’s unfair. Times have changed for them, and I suspect for Appalachians, too. To me, the “hillbillies” have their own regional culture, just like New England or the Deep South, etc.
And some great recipes. Since I like those recipes, I try to look at people as people and not stereotypes. There’s rich and poor everywhere.
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scroop many of us are still democrats, left over from resenting Lincoln and the resulting exploitation of Appalachia in the name of ‘Reconstruction’. My granmaw spit every time she said ‘Republican’.
NJL not sure if you understand me correctly. I can say hillbilly and holler people, and get away with it. You can’t. Ain’t PC great?
seriously though you got it right re the recipes. Ever had ramps and taters and onions?
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Look how safe it is to disparage “hillbillies”.
Imagine doing some thing similar to Blacks, Jews or Gays.
If “hillbillies” are so backward why don’t we make them recipients of affirmative action benefits? That’s right, I forgot they are white so no one cares if they get short changed.
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Erasmus, actually, Lincoln in defeating slavery and the aristocratic southerners cared more for working-class people, including hillbillies, than the modern Democrats who actually represent mostly the teacher’s and government employee’s unions, let alone the cultural left that favors a sexual and cultural revolution that has tended to destroy solid Appalachian family life.
How ironic that our hillbilly descendant on this blog is an ideological Darwinist with the moniker, Erasmus.
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It’s pretty simple. With the exception of a couple of small areas on both ends of the state (coal in the south, DC/Baltimore influx in the eastern panhandle) WV’s economy sucks in every conceivable way. It is very much a function of geography–getting “there” from “here” almost always involves mountains and gasoline. Blue collar jobs across the river in Ohio and around Pittsburgh have dried up. The (Democratic) governor, like so many of both parties before him is corrupt and inept. The folks are indeed suffering.
They will be presented with the classic political conundrum this year–vote your pocketbook or vote your fears–defined above by Peter Leavitt as “patriotism” and “courage” and defined by other Republican operatives as something darker and closer to home.
Yes, they do need something to cling to. It’s pretty grim out there. But I think an awful lot of them will opt for hope, change, medical care for their families, and ultimately figure out that a military hero married to an alcohol heiress is not likely to help them out much.
Scroop–check the records–WV is by no means a Republican bastion. Obama, somewhat surprisingly to me, does have a shot here. It’s that bad.
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Erasmus, actually, Lincoln in defeating slavery and the aristocratic southerners cared more for working-class people, including hillbillies, than the modern Democrats who actually represent mostly the teacher’s and government employee’s unions, let alone the cultural left that favors a sexual and cultural revolution that has tended to destroy solid Appalachian family life.
How ironic that our hillbilly descendant on this blog is an ideological Darwinist with the moniker, Erasmus.
Wrong, solon, there was no ‘working class’ in Appalachia at that time. That is entirely an outcome of Reconstruction and the New Deal. Subsistence farmers were done no favors by the abolition of slavery or the ensuing social programs aimed at eradicating this way of life.
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Joel Mark (13): Both candidates have been accused of filp-flopping lately. Has anyone noticed that the direction of all the recent flip-flops have been to the right?
Frank: Duh?! That’s because they’re both lefties …
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Erasmus —
Appalachians supported Lincoln by and large or were sympathetic to unionism. They either abhorred slavery. like Lincoln, or had little economic stake in the institution. They resented the plantation South and wanted a “white basis” for apportionment that didn’t count blacks. That’s how WV became a state, actually — through voluntary “reconstruction.” They certainly didn’t like blacks or want them around, however. Appalachia was strongly committed to white supremacy. Traditional Democrats tell pollsters they won’t vote for Obama because race is important to them.
Reconstruction didn’t have much to do with Appalachia, which didn’t have many blacks, nor did Appalachia mount extensive efforts to undo it, as Georgia did.
I read a wonderful Jim Grimsley novel last night about North Carolina Appalachian (?) white trash culture viewed through a gay perspective. He represents it as a lyrical, picturesque golgotha. A picture Obama better not go anywhere near! He better try to get seen next to Andy Griffith.
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Erasmus, the debate between Jefferson and Hamilton over the essentially romantic idea of subsistence farming as opposed to a a commercial and manufacturing nation was decisively won by Hamilton in late eighteenth-century.
As to modern Appalachia, most of its people today are working-class people better served by the social/moral values and a free economy of the Republican Party at its best as opposed to a politically-correct nanny state that advocates loose moral values.
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“If you’re actually in ethnic group X you can employ any and all slurs forbidden for anyone else NOT IN THAT GROUP to use.”
If you are a white male or a Christian, this rule no longer applies. Anyone can talk about them as they please…
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Erasmus writes: “NJL not sure if you understand me correctly. I can say hillbilly and holler people, and get away with it. You can’t. Ain’t PC great?”
You know I don’t believe in PC! I don’t call my peeps “krauts.”
I understand taters and onions, but I don’t know what a “ramp” is. How are these things put togeher? Do tell. Seriously.
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Erasmus — I agree with you that the Republican party didn’t care much about Appalachian yeomen in the 19th century or laborers in the 20th century. Republican voting in Appalachia began to decline in Grant’s second term, an enduring consequence of the first great crisis of American capitalism. The premise of this thread is that Appalachians aren’t stupid. (Unfortunately, intelligence isn’t an antidote to the stupidity of racism.)
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#25
Allium tricoccum, an Appalachian delicacy. Ramps are under heavy fire from mountaintop removal in WV, KY and VA, and overharvesting for commercial exploitation in NC TN and the other states. They are a symbol of all that is wild and should remain so.
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Michelle: I’m not sure about West Virginia, but I”m vacationing with my family right now in Franklin County, Virginia, which is famous for being the “Moonshine Capital of the World.”
When I was growing up back here in the 1980s, I dated a girl whose father had a moonshine still underground in their backyard, and when my dad bought our farm the previous owners were still storing ’shine in our barn. So yes, moonshine is still a lucrative business down here.
Although, it was interesting to see that the local (government-sanctioned) ABC stores down here now carry “Moonshine” (corn mash) in both large and small quantities. I’m not sure if it’s real “moonshine” if a person can legally buy it (and it’s not transported through the mountains by the “light of the moon” like the good-ole-days), but I do plan to enjoy it with my MIdwestern friends once I’m back in Iowa next week.
Here’s a moonshine toast to Obama’s historic loss in November!
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No one here followed the story of the WVa Gov’s daughter who somehow got the president of West Virginia U to award her an un-earned executive MBA. Gov’s daughter was already the CEO of a big Pharma company.
Nary a ripple in the MSM or WMB from the looks of it.
The West Va University prez eventually agreed to step down.
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Erasmus, I read Wikipedia on those ramps. Apparently, Quebec agrees with you, but the English up there don’t.
Perhaps this fine plant should be cultivated and shared. It might become profitable. I’ve never seen a ramp, except in the picture, but I think a nice leek soup recipe could be adapted to it.
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some folks do grow ramps but they take 3-4 years to be harvesting size. disturbances to the seed bank (like MTR or heavy machinery used in timber harvest) decimate populations. it is against the law to harvest ramps in the Great Smoky Mountains and the Blue Ridge Parkway and other national parks.
I found some in Mammoth Cave, KY a few years ago. Total surprise as I associate them with high elevations where I come from. In Michigan I found some along a stream bank once, apparently they were once widespread in many places in the midwest. A cherokee friend told me of going to a ramp patch in Illinois and he said it was flat as a dinner table as far as you could see… I’m used to digging them on steep hillsides where only deer go.
the volunteer firemen mafia and the mexicans and the produce stands are digging them out in WNC. We need to do something about it.
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The White Lightening brand of moonshine that is made in VA is legal and sold in liquor stores because the ex moonshiner now pays his taxes to the evil Revenuers. I love the bottle with the molded lightening bolt, its a classic, and keep one handy at all times in VA. Had a little nip last night as a matter of fact but not from the legal bottle
Well, Robert ‘KKK’ Byrd is living proof that W VA is not a Republican stronghold and there was work besides moonshining. It wasn’t great in the old days but today coal mining pays pretty well, sadly, mechanization has reduced the need for miners drastically from the old days. Still, the deep seated socialism that was behind the eventual unionization of the coal mines is alive and well to this day and it clashes with the rugged individualism of the moonshiner. Miners outnumbered moonshiners 100 to 1 though.
Let the Yankees keep thinking how smart they are compared to hill folk. Some of my relatives the Clampetts, got rich in oil and had a TV show made about them (way before Dallas too) and had no problem making city folk look as…errrr….. stupid as stupid could be. Luckily, when global warming finally comes and things get tough, these city folk will just lay down in their gutters and die from being stupid enough to kill themselves or they just might plain get lost in the dark and never be heard form ever again. No one in the hills will notice their passing – just like always
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Robert “King of Pork” Byrd has been in the Senate longest. It’s interesting that Robert “KKK” Byrd is endorsing Obama. Is he perhaps trying to atone for his racist past? In any case Robert “Everything in West Virginia is Named After Me” Byrd will probably be Senator until he dies. Follow the money. If Byrd thinks he can continue his pork projects with Obama, then West Virginia will vote for Obama even if he can’t bowl.
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Llama
Still, the deep seated socialism that was behind the eventual unionization of the coal mines is alive and well to this day and it clashes with the rugged individualism of the moonshiner.
Solon disagrees with you about this. perhaps you can educate him, all he does is harrumph into his hat when I call him on it.
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I looked up the profitability of the moonshine industry in Appalachia and came up with the following:
Moonshine continues to be produced in the U.S., mainly in Appalachia.[18] The product is often called “white lightning” because it is not aged and is generally sold at high alcohol proof, often bottled in canning jars (”Mason jars”, see photo). A typical moonshine still may produce 1000 gallons per week and net $6000 per week for its owner
$6,000 a week is not bad given the short investment involved. Them thar moonshiners, far from being subsistence farmers, are regular [gasp] capitalists. They probably vote the straight Republican ticket.
I’d take a jar of real moonshine any day over Obama’s political variety that gives a much more lasting hangover.
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solon i’d gladly give you a jar but you’d probably get a little rowdy and want to fight. so no white likker for you son.
used to be folks would swap corn squeezin’s instead of selling them for cash. don’t let the facts get in your way.
of course we agree about Obama, except that i’d extend that generalization to the rest of them. they should pick a feller out at random and roust him out of bed in the middle of the night and swear him in at gun point.
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Now we see Erasmus true self. And you once called me a redneck…
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MIM did i really? if so, be honored. where i come from that is a badge of identity.
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Erasmus, I drink the happy not the fight likker. We’re agreed on most politicians, though more so on Harvard professors. Bill Buckley once said that he’d rather be ruled by any of the first hundred names in the Boston phone-book than any Harvard professor.
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solon my bone of contention is not with individuals (the politicians) as much as the system. it doesn’t matter who the engineer is when the train is broken.
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Are you folks confused? Hillbillies live in Arkansas (do you doubt this after the Clinton administration – did they ever locate all that silverware?). And moonshine is from Georgia and Tennessee.
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Yes Erasmus, you did. Something about a redneck hick fundamnentalist Christian from Jawgia….
I don’t think you meant it as a compliment either.
On the other hand, I’ve never had anything but admiration for a truly independent individuals with plenty of brains and very little education. I’ve always idolized the “hillbilly” as much as I idolized the american cowboy.
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RRBar,
I thought “hillbilly” applied to folks from the Appalachians as well as the Ozarks….
What do you call the mountain folks from the Appalachians if not hillbilly? (Not that I’d call them that.)
Speakin’ of moonshine. I had an aquaintance whose father ran ’shine from the mountains up a little north of here. He had one of those fast cars with a big trunk painted flat black, and that thing could scoot!
He knew every sherriff in every town too…
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Answers.com says this:
“Strangely enough, early editions of Websters Dictionary include a definition of hillbilly as ‘a Michigan Farmer.’”
So, they come from Michigan, too!
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The only problem I had with the Beverly Hillbillies was that they often invited people over for “grits and greens”. I’ve never known anyone to eat them in the same meal. Grits are for breakfast and greens are for supper. Though the Cajun’s make a great dish with grits and shrimp dish.
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MIM
On the other hand, I’ve never had anything but admiration for a truly independent individuals with plenty of brains and very little education
are you an Ayn Rand fan or something? lol
here’s one for you. I’m sure you would agree that as a result of ‘civilization’ the survival of any one human has grown to be more and more dependent upon the survival of other humans, since the agricultural and technological and transportation revolutions, right?
So does that mean that those people you admire are destined to become more and more of a statistical minority as a result of The Way Things Are?*
Doesn’t it seem likely that such independent individuals will be viewed as dead weight on the system that optimizes for inter-relations among groups (trade, labor, food production, even the democratic republic)?
Maybe even get rid of them? see The New American Farm although I don’t agree with everything he says, it is clear that from any perspective man’s relationship to the food he eats has become more and more convoluted and distant, much like squeezing a tube that is engineered to contain the prescribed amount of product, packaged in the most marketable and cheapest fashion possible, with just enough nutritious content to qualify as food by government legislation. I could go on. I think the point is clear.
And it seems to directly follow from the proposition that independent people were something that we admire, and the hypothesis that western civilization has worked against this trait.
An old story for sure, and not my own, what do you think?
*what exactly defines The Way Things Are is certainly debatable and ultimately subjective to some degree. I certainly don’t stake my flag over a definition. But this misses my point, I think.
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RRBAR: Actually, Franklin County here in southwest Virginia is famous for being the “Moonshine Capital of the World,” where more illegal homemade whiskey is produced from underground and backyard stills than anywhere else in the world — and that’s been the case since the Prohibition years.
Georgia and Tennessee may lay claim to moonshining as well, but Franklin County Virginia is still king of the enterprise (although my childhood friends in neighboring Patrick County always swore they produced more than Franklin County, yet were smart enough to not be caught, and therefore not counted in the official statistics).
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