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Family man
Michael Oher went from the streets to the NFL because of an adoptive family
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Humility regarding what man does. Faith in what God does. That means skepticism about politicians' plans to run health care.
Executives who run companies should be self-effacing. Add “I” to run and the result is ruin.
Happy first day of July!
Today’s quote is from a movie: “I don’t want to survive. I want to live.”
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back to top37 Comments to “Whirled Views 7.1”
WALL E 2008
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Got a question for y’all who may have more experience in this. Hubby and I are walking with a couple through speration, but hopefully not divorce.
While we have all sorts of discussions with the couple, my main worry is for the children. Their world has been rocked. Everyone is at pains to say the right thing to the kids, but what they do is what they hear the most. Everyone is acting normal while these kids hearts are telling them this is wrong.
OK here’s the question, when do you tell a kid, “This stinks. God Himself hates this. If you’re heart is telling you this is wrong it is because it is. It is destructive. Your father has chosen to abandon happily-ever-after, because it is too much work, too much sacrifice, and someone forgot to tell him that his happiness was not the only happiness involved when he vowed till-death-do-us-part.”
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God bless you and your husband, Adios. This is a heart-breaking ministry which comes with lots of spiritual warfare.
We walked through it last year with our best man and it was emotionally draining and spiritually disheartening. Indeed, we’ve been walking through this with him for several years, including many when I urged him to stay for the sake of the children.
I continually reminded myself there were two sides to every story, that I couldn’t take as gospel everything he told me because it was only through his perceptions. I focused on what was best for the kids throughout and the answer, in this case, has been nothing. It’s been a cataclysmic nightmare for those children.
Judith Wallerstein’s books kept our friend in the marriage several more years–for the sake of the kids. But when it came time to tell them, she did all the talking and chose to destroy her husband through the children–or at least that’s what it sounds like to me. It’s hard to believe.
So, make sure they talk to the children together with an as unbiased as possible person there as well to help. And I think it might be good if the kids had such an unbiased person who cared about them outside of their parents, to help them in the future.
There is a reason God hates divorce and after what I’ve seen, I can’t imagine why anyone would not work harder to spare their children.
Or, as a psychologist told me recently: “A couple dates, falls in love, recognizes they’re different but decides they can tolerate the differences, and get married. Years later, they can’t stand those differences anymore and decide they can’t live with them. So, they split and leave the people least able to deal with the differences–the children–to sort our what the adults never failed to do. It’s heartbreaking.
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Wallerstein’s research can be read about in this book, among many:
http://tinyurl.com/6gqygy
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MomofFour, I enjoyed your story from yesterday. I check out the Finchcam everyday, and I would the Eaglecam if the eagles had decided to settle down this year, and the Looncam if the loons weren’t in a battle — a new guy has moved into the cove and wants the girl, so as long as they fight it out, there are no eggs to watch. You’re right, a new bird is pretty ugly (but cute in its own way), but now I understand why: that big beak opens up for the food (the camera’s close).
Wow, Adios, I don’t think I’d say that to a kid, especially when you’re hoping for a reconciliation. Here’s why. When my friend was cheated on by her husband, I was more openly angry than she was (it’s a long story). I asked a woman I knew at the courthouse who had gotten divorced: what was the one thing you didn’t want to hear? She told me she didn’t like her friends dissing her husband who had done the same thing. She gave up on those friendships. It was good advice. I decided to be supportive of my friend, listen to her, and not badmouth her husband. I learned later on that had he apologized and had he been willing to give up his ladies and computer-related activities, if you get my drift, she would have stayed married to him. But he never apologized because he didn’t think he’d done anything all that awful. She wanted her dignity, and he wouldn’t say he was wrong. Had they stayed together, the friendship would have been doomed if I’d bad-mouthed him all along. I don’t think you can diss a father like that — even if what you’ve written above is absolutely 100% true. A child still loves the “bad” parent. That could be explained to an older child, I suppose, but even teenagers still want the family together. I think this might be an opportunity, however, to point out that adults don’t always know what to do, that they make mistakes, and dad seems to have made one. I’d be gentle with that.
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Wallerstein’s book is the one we had to read in law school. It’s invaluable. I would recommend it as a text in high school. People should read it before they get married.
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Adios,
I agree with NJLawyer in #5.
I do my best not to try to provide an explanation to a child of why another adult did what they did – because I don’t really know another person’s motives. I will sometimes suggest possibilities, in cases where the child can’t go ask the adult directly (maybe he was tired, or upset about something else and maybe took it out on you, maybe she misunderstood the situation, etc.)
But generally I’ll suggest the child ask the adult about it. The adult may not realize the impact of his words or actions, and having to explain them to the child may change that. And sometimes there are other circumstances that I don’t know about. Of course, the adult’s explanation may not be adequate, and then I’ll talk with the child some more. But at least we’ll be starting with something other than my guesses and opinions about it.
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Thanks Michelle and NJL, I’ll get that book.
And you’re right, I shouldn’t bad mouth their father. My struggle is that every adult around them is acting like this is normal and trying to make the best of it.
Their dad told them that though he is not keeping the commitment he made to their mother he will never break his commitments to them. Then he walked out their door.
He and I have taken long walks on the beach where I pointed that little problem out. You can say what you said, but what you did is all they heard.
And there are no “deal breakers” in this marriage. The mother does not want this and is devastated. Everything he says about his wife to justify his leaving are simple differences between man and women. Stuff that plays as comedy at a couples retreat.
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Adios,
You can tell them the first part though. It will confirm their feelings that it is wrong if they know that God thinks so and it okays them to feel that way. But you also need to help them see the need of working through a bad situation. Our kids know what their parents did was wrong but they don’t need me to tell them how bad the parents were. They do need me to confirm that it is alright for them not to want to do that to their kids in the future because it is wrong. They feel torn, supposed to love them but look what they did… A good opportunity to look at how God deals with us, He knows what we do, calls it sin, yet loves us anyway through the Blood.
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Joe B.: Enjoy your virtual iced coffee!
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Adios,
You are correct. This is very heartbreaking. I’ve expressed my feelings on this matter several times on this blog. In the last couple years, some mentors and friends have left their wives (or husbands) for various reasons, and it was very painful for me to watch.
I suppose this fellow says he “fell out of love” with his wife, or that he just doesn’t love her anymore?
Hmmmmm… Thought would sound very familiar.
Gary Thomas, who wrote Sacred Marriage would say that he fell out of repentance, and that he should obey God, and love his wife as God commanded.
I’d tell him that obedience to God is the priority, and that his personal and spiritual growth is more important than his ephemeral happiness – which is what he’s following now…
I’m not against happiness mind you, and would love to have more of it, but that’s not the most important thing.
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You lay down with dogs, you’re gonna get fleas.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/27/grim_proving_ground_for_obamas_housing_policy/?page=full
worth reading.
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As for the children… I just don’t know what to say. One of the children (now an adult) involved in the divorces I mentioned above is just devastated, and years later is still dealing with the fallout, and still dealing with depression. He’s the most painful and visible result of divorce I’ve ever seen. When I ask him how he’s doing, he’ll say (since I don’t know him very well) “I’m fine, how are you?”. Meanwhile visible pain is leaking from his eyes…
He’s also the best reason I can think of for not getting a divorce.
I’ve told my children (now both adults) that, yes, we have our difficulties, but I’d never leave their mother. Period.
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Adios, you can have at the dad all you want! I’m sure many times both my parents wanted to pack it in, but they didn’t. Much is said about the old standard of sticking it out for the kids, but when I hear some of the reasons for getting divorced, and then what the parties do to the kids to get at the other parent, I know I’d never make it as a family law lawyer. And if I made it to family law judge, it wouldn’t last long — people can be incredibly stupid and selfish and stupid again! I think I’d tell them and get “debenched.”
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Believe I have “had at him!” He is a wonderful man in many ways and he knows my husband and I love him, but this as all the tragic earmarks of a midlife crises. To mention that only makes him mad becasue I think it hits the sorest, truest spot. And I think–I hope and pray–he’ll wake up one day and yell, “What have I done.” A better wife is not out there somewhere.
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Like I said, Adios, people can be incredibly stupid and stupid again! I think you have hit the nail on the head if he reacts to the midlife crisis idea as you indicate. Perhaps a reality check regarding funding two households, cooking his own meals, cleaning his own apartment, would wise him up. Perhaps a lecture on loneliness during the holidays when he has no place to go would help. You know their situation. What will he “miss?” Try the “wise as serpents” approach, if I may call it that.
If it helps, however, the lady I mentioned from the courthouse — she and her husband remarried when he got through that midlife nonsense.
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Wow, Adios, I feel for you. I don’t have any concrete advice either. Just know you are added to my prayers for my friends here. Sacred Marriage is a great book, Make It Man–I helped “lead” it for a ladies fellowship at one time a couple of years ago.
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A lot of churches have Divorce Care programs. They now have curriculum for children of divorced parents too. I don’t know much about it, but it would be worth looking into.
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On another note, Walleeeee:
A friend told me that it was a propaganda-ish type movie like “Happy Feet” was. Is it true?
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MMacMurray, you mentioned on yesterday’s WV that you have a hard time sleeping when your hubby is away. That’s one of the #1 problems I face. There is so much to do during the day with the little ones, etc that I desperately need energy for. All the normal stuff (housework, cooking, summer homeschooling, leading ladies Bible study, working the garden), plus all of hubby’s (mowing 32 acres, going to the dump, periodic phone calls for his ministry.) Not to mention disciplining the kids, keeping up with my own Bible reading, running, working from home…How come I can’t make myself get to sleep at night? I really need to, I know. But when I get up in that bed, it either takes me forever to fall asleep, or I dream all night long. thanks to those of you who may be praying for me during this time.
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Lisav,
There was a review of it in the movies section of WMB. Did you miss it?
The author said folks saw environmental themes in it, but that’s not what he intended.
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Sorry, I guess it’s not on the movies tab. But here’s a link:
http://online.worldmag.com/2008/06/27/wall%e2%80%a2es-worldview/
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MoveOn is giving away 1 million Obama 08 bumper stickers this week, no strings attached.
In the spirit of Rush Limbaugh’s Operation Chaos, conservatives should request one and throw it away to keep it out of circulation.
I’m such a sneaky, conniving, original sin infested, creature! Aaargh!
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It is a beautiful day in the neighborhood, though cooler than the past several days. Hard to believe it has been hovering around a hundred this past week and just about three weeks ago it was snowing.
And now, momoffour, you know why I write such thrilling messages on here. Only another nineteen months or so until hubby gets home full time again for a while, so expect many more exciting tales of the flowers around here or birds, or whatever.
For today, hub is off with the kids looking at campers. In the interest of actually making money during this time apart, he is thinking of putting a camper on the back of his truck and living in it for the next year and a half rather than paying the high costs of housing up there in Canada.
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Mumsee, make sure he gets an absentee ballot if he’ll be gone that long.
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Metanoia, you will also get solicitations for money forever. McCain sent me one today. I’m on their list because I once sent money to George Allen. You never get off.
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NJLawyer,
Why? Is there an election coming up?
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In Llamadom – ending a marriage is not impossible but difficult and potentially dangerous where there are no winners. Llamas agree and swear before marriage that it is death till they part but, it ok to kill your spouse since that is the only way out. I know you think I am kidding but llamas believe it really is death at each other hands or naturally as the only way out – no divorce was allowed or granted.
Llamas correctly figure that you couldn’t get away with murder and you would end up spending the rest of your life in prison with other very bad llamas who are bigger than you. So, if you wanted out bad enough to want to be in prison for the rest of your life with much larger and loonier llamas rather than being married to your lovely or handsome spouse – then obviously your wedded llama had to do something really, really bad where they would want to be and deserved to be dead anyway. But, no matter what, the survivor always languishes horribly in llama limbo forever where they will wish they were dead instead.
The penalties are just to great to be doing stupid things when it comes to your spouse. They might be forced to kill you. Mutually assured destruction has never failed in Llamdaom but I am sure a human could mess it up
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For those of you who remember my mention of our basement problems, we got a clearer view of what we have to deal with today. A representative from Basement Systems came to take a look and give an estimate (I guess they’re really busy due to recent flooding – we had to wait well over a month to get someone out here).
By cutting out some drywall inside a closet (which of course meant moving all the stuff stored on shelves in the closet, plus the shelves themselves), we were able to see a crack in the foundation. The wall is concrete blocks, and the crack is between blocks, zigzagging up and away from where the water seems to show up first. We’ll have to move more shelves and cut more drywall to see how far the crack goes. Not as far as the electrical panel next to the closet, we hope.
Their recommendation is to get a hole dug for a sump pump. They say there’s no way to entirely prevent water from coming in, so rather than try to they work on redirecting the water that does get in back out. Which makes sense to me. I wish we had money for their recommended solution, but even the low end equipment is more than the cash we have saved up from the tax refund. And that’s not even counting getting someone else to come in and do the jackhammer work first.
But first our big job is finding a place to put everything that has to be cleared out for the work to get done, including an old player piano so heavy and hard to move that the previous owners of the house just left it behind.
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Pauline,
How about sell the player piano on ebay at a ridiculously high price and pay for the repairs? It only takes one buyer..
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Argghh…
I’m trying to find a recent thread in which we debated about Christianity, and antisemitism, and can’t for the life of me remember what thread it was. Someone gave me a few links to follow and I forgot to bookmark them…
Any help?
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N’mind. I found that one. I think that there was another thread, that someone gave me several links to some subject, and I can’t remember the subject or the thread. Good luck with that one.
Why is is so hard to search WMB anymore?
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So I wasn’t sure where to put this…there are a couple of book threads but they don’t seem to be about any books you’ve been reading lately….so I guess I’ll put it here. I just finished reading like a totally great novel called Candle in the Darkness, about a young Southern girl in the events before and during the Civil War. It’s written by Lynn Austin, published by Bethany House. From the description on the back of the book:
CAUGHT
In a nation splitting apart
ANGERED
by those who would enslave others
EMBOLDENED
by a passion to make a difference.
TORN
between the one she loves and a truth she can’t deny.
Here is Caroline Fletcher’s story.
/endquote
It was great, and I recommend it. Just wanted to say so. That’s all.
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Mumsee,
I’ve wondered if I’d be able to get any money for it, but I doubt it’s in good enough shape to be worth the shipping charges for something so heavy, which is why I didn’t think ebay was practical (unless I just happened to find a local buyer). I’m pretty sure it needs some repairs to get it to work at all except as a regular piano, and even at that it’s very out of tune. But I suppose I should try to figure out just what it is and how much it might be worth.
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Man….
When it rains it pours. Hard times in the MIM household.
Youngest son got fired from his one of his part time jobs this evening. Evidently he failed his “customer relations” test, (actually, he probably failed to please the managers) and was fired 30 minutes later. His hours at the other job had already been cut, so his chances of moving out are none too good at the present.
Couple that with some other things going on, and it’s a depressing picture.
I’d appreciate your prayers for the young man…
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Certainly, Make It Man. You, your son, and family are in my prayers.
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Thanks MomofFour.
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