Grow up, America
I don’t like it when I see men dressed like boys, and women dressed like girls. I have no problem with tennis shoes, or with shorts, or with baseball caps. I just have a problem when, aside from the size and cost of the clothes, it’s hard to tell the difference between what a boy and a man are wearing. The same for women who try to look like young things. Even when she’s got the body for it, it’s just a little embarrassing. Part of the problem here is that we so desperately want to look and act and be young. We want to discover our inner child. We wear shirts that say “Runs with scissors” and “Eats glue.” We sit in great big Starbucks chairs with our shoes off and our legs Indian-style, like Kindergarteners on growth hormone. I can’t stand it. Those kinds of things are the subjects of this book, called The Death of the Grown-Up by Diana West.
The gist of it is this: In a now-vanished age, parents knew the difference between right and wrong and taught it to their children. For reasons that might have been fascinating to explore, the same generation that fought World War II, the Greatest Generation, rejected this role, raising children more interested in self-gratification and creating their own culture of music and clothes than in emulating their parents.
“The common compass of the past – the urge to grow up and into long pants; to be old enough to dance at the ball (amazingly enough, to the music adults danced to); to assume one’s rights and responsibilities – completely disappeared,” she writes.
West’s book makes some pretty big jumps from this idea to the destruction of Western Civilization, but it may be worth a skim in the bookstore.
Ms. West does know how to set the pulse racing. Along the way, we read of parents who hire strippers for their children’s parties, schools that have dropped honor rolls as too hurtful to students who do not make the list and a suburban mother outraged that her daughter has been suspended for giving oral sex to a classmate on the school bus. In court the mother argued that the school “was not clear in its written policies that oral sex on a bus was unacceptable behavior.”
Ah, it is quite nice to be a grown up. Not always fun, but quite liberating.




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back to top64 Comments to “Grow up, America”
Who needs to be grown up? We’ve got good ol’ Big Brother government lending us money and taking care of us. We don’t even need to work!
Yes, as a teenager I enjoy my bouts of immaturity. But you have to draw the line somewhere!
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And that line for me is the same as HSK’s — older women should not dress like a 20-something. It really does look awful.
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Teenagers (as a whole) used to work to contribute to the family before they got to vote at 21. Now, it’s reversed. Teenagers (as a whole) may work, but it’s just for “fun money” mostly, and they get to vote at 18, before shouldering real responsibility (of course excepting the young heros in uniform).
Time to make the adolecent years count for more than an extended playtime with grown-up toys like cars and cell phones.
OT, I bet your folks are thankful for a teen with good sense!
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Does anyone else miss shows where kids were responsible and looked forward to growing up, like on the Andy Griffith Show or the Waltons?
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Well that momma just ought to be proud of her daughter.
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It only bothers me when men dress like girls and women dress like boys and you can’t tell female from a male or how old they are.
People that can’t seem to dress age appropriate but still have the right sex picked out just need a gay person to pick out their attire like they do on TV
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Mom of 5: Good sense. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
(I also have to add that I admire you. I want at least five kids once I’m married.)
NJLawer: I totally agree.
Llama: Lol!
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What gets me are men well into their 40s who dress like a grown-up during the work week but come to church looking like a sloppy reject from an Abercrombie & Fitch catalog.
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HSK
There has always been, and always BE a group of people who dress younger than they are. However it isn’t that common where we live. Because health and an active lifestyle is important to everyone, no matter what their age, there are many people who physically ‘look great’ at many age levels where we live, — its not uncommon to see people tan, fit, and wearing attractive clothing, be it shorts, capri pants etc. There are those who go overboard, — however ignoring them works for most people, just don’t laugh out loud!
I’ve never witnessed an older adult sitting ‘cross legged’ anywhere, in any restaurant, except outside on a lawn, or at the beach.
As far as the extreme sexual situations you mention, etc., they are just that EXTREME. Parents hiring ’strippers’ for parties? Yes this happens, there is no law against this garbage, you can’t stop it, so what’s the POINT? — and then you bring up the “oral sex on the bus” again this doesn’t happen every day, and IT WAS TAKEN CARE OF, many of us read the story.
Why take a group of ugly stories, throw them together and try to make a thread out of obvious sin? What’s the point HSK? This isn’t news-
We deal with abused children crying out for help, abortion, children who are living with parents on drugs, and kids following in their footsteps, and YOU think the way adults dress is worth all this commotion?
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A related point: just as some grown women are dressing on the young side, what is the deal with clothing for little girls being so sexualized?! Is the whole clothing industry crazy? It’s VERY difficult to find jeans for girls that don’t show belly buttons. Tops, too, for that matter.
I do buy shorts and jeans for my girls in the boys’ dept (if I can’t find any in a thrift shop) because they are at least decent.
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Victoria, while I see your point in “why is this important?”,I believe one reason it is an important issue is because it boils down to rebellion, which the Bible says is akin to witchcraft.
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I’m with Mickey (8) — no respect.
Our daughter fell for her guy, in part because unlike the other boys, he was a man.
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Here’s another “clothing-related” frustration, similar to what’s being discussed here. I have a hard time finding decent clothes that fit me. I’m 32, and of “normal” size (5′4″, 117). Clothes that fit me best are in the junior sizes, but as mentioned before, most of what I find in stores (even Walmart and Target) is so sexed up. I love clothes from catalogues like Eddie Bauer, but they are so expensive. What’s a “woman” to do???
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The good thing about older people dressing too young is it makes them easy to spot at parties. You know who to avoid. Or watch. Nothing quite as amusing as the older man with dyed hair, or worse a toupe, trying to figure out why he seems to have just the opposite of animal magnatism;)
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MomofFour, whatever you do, stay away from the FLDS ladies, okay? Eddie Bauer’s got a sale on now.
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NJLawyer beat me to it. See Alisa’s “FLDS gals sell fashion.”
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I believe that many people, no matter how old they are might take a closer look in the mirror, both front, back and side views to see how they appear in public. I would also suggest that jealousy of those who are slim, fit, etc., is not lost on many of any age.
Many over-weight and obese people (male, female, young and old) are not very kind or thoughtful in their sneering, remarks of those who wear clothes that they could never wear, nor do they make them in the BIG sizes.
Clothes of all kind, whether they are very traditional, sexy, edgy, or trendy come in all price points. Go on line, you can find what you want if you live in an area that does not have much shopping available.
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Don’t worry, NJL, I will stay away from those clothes!! 8*)
Good point, Victoria. (For the record, I am not sneering at those who are over-weight…I have struggled with severe body image issues over the years as I have mentioned in the past on this blog. I still struggle with it today…) As far as online shopping goes, some of us still buy our stuff with cold-hard cash, not credit cards (I don’t even have a credit card.) That rules out online shopping. It leaves what’s at the store to buy…
It goes beyond the clothes, I think that’s the main point. I can’t take a 40 something year old woman seriously if she’s wearing tight, torn-up hip huggers, and a My Little Pony tshirt.
I think the opposite is worse, however. (Young girls dressed “sexed up.” I recently took my little ones to a church youth-group led event. Most of the helpers there were between 13-17 years old. I don’t doubt their hearts and their intention–they were absolutely as sweet as could be and doted on my children. But they wore next to nothing, literally. Their shorts were so small they may as well have been undies. Their shirts were tied up in knots just below their chest (no bathing suit underneath.) My oldest, who is 9, was visibly embarassed (well, I hope embarassment is the right word…)
How about if we ALL just act (and dress) our age??
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MOMOFFOUR made a great point on post 11. I think another reason this topic is important is that kids see grown-ups emulating teens, rather than teens emulating grown-ups. It’s a twisting of the roles, just as feminism is. It’s just not as obvious.
The implication is that rather than honoring the “grey-headed”, we’re ashamed of aging, and it shows in the way we side-line the aged in nursing homes, too. Enjoy youth-that’s great, but don’t reject growing up or looking like it.
I think the “something’s not right” feeling we get about adults looking (and acting) like kids is related to the shedding of responsibility that has become so rampant in many quarters of society.
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momoffour
“Good point, Victoria. (For the record, I am not sneering at those who are over-weight…I have struggled with severe body image issues over the years as I have mentioned in the past on this blog.”
My second paragraph in post 17 was speaking to very large over-weight people who make jealous remarks and sneers to those who are THIN, and FIT, not the other way around.
I have said this before, but its worth saying again: I believe it depends where people live as to how they dress, if they wear ‘torn jeans’ and all sorts of t-shirts with slogans written across the front, — it’s just not the style where we live, it’s considered to be low class.
Many women and girls where form fitting clothes here, probably because they are thin and they fit really well. There is a point where clothes can be to tight, or show skin between the top and pant, but its best to ignore it, many times the ones wearing these ‘get-ups’ are the very ones with the buldge in the middle
and that is funnier, it doesn’t come close to sexy.
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Many women and girls where form fitting clothes here,
SHOULD BE:
Many women and girls wear form fitting clothes here,
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I have a full time job. I pay my bills on time. I help support my children whenever they need it. Most days I dress in a polo shirt and jeans. So according toyou I’m not a grown up?
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radright56
I don’t know one person who lives (any age) here that doesn’t own at least a few pair of great fitting jeans. Polo shirts look good with jeans, many times, depending on the weather some of the gals wear great looking leather jackets, or cropped sweaters with hoods – terrific look for casual wear -
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uh, oh. Radright 56, I hope you weren’t adressing me. If so, I’m not making any sense on here, which wouldn’t surprise me! 8*) I’m talking about people who dress skimpy (not casual, not inexpensively, not comfortably.) My husband wears jeans and polos a lot when not at work, and I think he looks like a good-looking 33 year old, hard working father, just like he is.
Victoria, we are sisters in the Lord. Perhaps it’s just because I can’t see your face, but I’m sensing a little anger or defensiveness from you. Don’t misunderstand me! (BTW, I knew who and what you were referring to in your post at 17…) I agree that most of the time, it’s almost comical when people wear clothes that just don’t “fit” them; but what do you think of my story about the kids helping out at a church related event? Don’t you think those gals should have dressed more their age? For my boys sake, I sure wish their parents had thought twice about their attire.
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RADRIGHT56
I’d say you’re just fine! The grunge look, pink hair, tongue rings, bare bellies, goth makeup, words printed across your behind to draw attention, tattos as covering…I think these are more the “dressing young” problems most have in mind. Also very short bottoms, cropped tops, too-tight anything, exposed underwear…you get the idea.
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Harrison’s bow tie looks boyish, whether or not his pants match his coat.
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Momoffour
I went back re-read your post.
YES, I agree that shorts that are above _____ and then tops which are tied under the breast, and middles that show navels have no place on anyone, and especially kids who are in church. In this we agree, and I would add age hasn’t a thing to do with it.
Any parent who would allow their daughter to dress that way, IN or OUT of the house, needs a ‘time out’ and re-think lesson as to what message her daughter is sending to everyone who see’s her — not to mention WHY the mother isn’t putting a stop to it.
You made a comment: “I can’t see your face, but I’m sensing a little anger or defensiveness from you.” Well guess what, you are right Momoffour, and that I’m sorry for. Sometimes it just gets tiresome when people make remarks against those who stay in shape, etc, and wear form fitting or well fitting clothes. I hope you accept my apology, I wasn’t being kind.
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Victoria,
I wanted to clarify, too. I have a 12 y/o daughter with a cute figure. She wears clothes that flatter her pretty feminine shape, and we encourage that. What we steer her away from are clothes that bring extra attention to her in a way that’s inappropriate. (Your point in #27.)
As a teenager, I dressed for attention, and got it, but not in the way I had in mind. As a result my husband & I are very aware that clothes do tend to send a message, and we want our girls to be pretty, but modest. We hope that translates to their being respected instead of groped, or worse.
We also teach our kids that parents set the standards for their own kids, so our kids shouldn’t point out to another child that their clothes are immodest by our family’s standards.
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No need to apologize, Victoria. That’s not needed at all–that’s the problem with a place like World Mag Blog; I can’t always read a person’s tone through their words. (Maybe I’m just not too bright…!) I agree that it drives me crazy when people make remarks about “fit” people as well. I have struggled with bulimia in the past; but right now I am fit because I run every morning, lift weights, work outside, and don’t eat sweets. Still, I want to dress like a fit, healthy 32-year old, not an obsessed sick teenager. I was just lamenting that it is hard to shop (without searching online) for clothes that fit that category.
Enough said on my part…
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#14 Adios,
I’m not going to pick a bone with you but I wish you would can the thing about us older folks that still have to compete with you younger folk. There is not a darn thing wrong with older men coloring their hair. You will too one day if youge t to be aw old as me and are still slaying dragons like you for breaklfast. I advise ataying away from Gretian Formula though. Hair Color for Men is best. No greeen cast.
God forbid you meet me on the business battlegfield with less because I never take prisoners and my foes never comne back alive
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“Harrison’s bow tie looks boyish, whether or not his pants match his coat.”
A bow tie is boyish dress, unless worn with a tux. Very popular in the homosexual community too.
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Tell me about it.. I just got back from a day at the water park and no one under 16 or over 50 should wear a bikini.
BTW Victoria, where do you live?
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Momoffour
Bless your heart — I’ve never suffered with bulimia, but it must be awful. I’m glad you told me.
I just bet you look great, and I’m happy for you. Sugar isn’t good for anyone in excess, I don’t eat very much sugar as it makes me feel terrible.
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Don’t worry about ‘bright’ when raising all the kids you have, keeping it all together, you should get a medal. One has to be bright to do what you are doing MOM OF 4 -
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Hi Kbells
I live in Southern California. I hate to break it to you, but there are a whole lot of women at most any age who look terrific in a bikini where we live!
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Lumps
“A bow tie is boyish dress, unless worn with a tux. Very popular in the homosexual community too.”
Actually you are wrong, many professors wear ‘bow tie’s’ not to mention guys who attend some universities. We live not to far from one of the biggest homosexual communities in California, and I’ve yet to see one in a ‘bow tie’-
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Llama, you old fox!
Many men color their hair and NO ONE KNOWS. I see some of them in the salon I go to, and I am amazed at the natural way the color looks.
Another thing, men color their hair doesn’t make them homosexual, it just means they don’t want gray hair, its a CHOICE, and if a guy wants his hair to look like it did before, who am I or anyone else to make snide remarks?
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Victoria,
I’m not coloring my hair yet. My twin does and he looks like like a fag
Seriously, there is nothing wrong with men coloring their hair when they want to look younger than they are or they want to go both ways or gay… and I have a bunch of ACLU lawyers on this blog who won’t defend me on that
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35. Victoria, just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
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Momoffour is right when she mentioned those who are, um, “carrying” being condescending to the thinner, and more fit. A woman I know is still right around the weight she was when I met her 20+ years ago. One of her friends, however, is not so svelte anymore, (too much ice cream) and the jealousy comes out in myriad little ways. It’s gotten to the point where this woman has been pulling away from her friend because she’s been hurt by it so many times.
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Victorrhea,
Of course bow ties are gay and boyish dress. Pee-Wee Herman, Tucker Carlson, Louis Farrakhan, and the oh so gay, Chipendales dancers with waxed chests and makeup. Gay and boyish. Every last one of them.
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Oh it’s such a fine line, MIM, for us women. I’ve worked really hard to stay the weight I am now, in a healthy way. Yet I know that I still have the “capability” of reverting to my high school/college days of being obsessed to the point of sickness to keep weight down. It is something that I have to *constantly* pray for (this is major confession time for me, pardon me…8*( I have one dear friend who has been making “jealous” remarks recently, because she is at a different stage in her “weight” (although not at ALL unhealthy). On the other hand, someone else who is very dear to my heart will make a comment if I put on a pound or two of “water weight.”
Okay, I always know its bedtime when I start confessing and opening up a little too much late at night on WMB. Sorry, folks! I’ll leave the conversation now (APPLAUSE!!!)
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And I just re-read my last post, and realized it had absolutely nothing to do with the initial post. I’m the queen of changing subject.
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MOM of 4
Don’t worry kiddo, those who want to stay healthy as you have made clear, this is your plan — will be happy for you, those who don’t will give you a bad time — let it go, its not worth upsetting yourself.
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Kbells, there are some swim suits, even two piece which are decent. There are women who wear a one piece swim suit, a dress with a long hem line, and a high neck line, and still they ……
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What disturbs me the most, is working as a customer service agent and SEEING people’s attitudes. It’s not just clothes. People have very childish attitudes as well. People who don’t have their information ready when they call us, for example. I cannot state how many times I have a caller on the phone and when I ask them for the email address or username on their account they say, “Well, how am I supposed to know that? I just want the account cancelled!” Then, they have the nerve to actually get angry with ME because THEY didn’t keep better track of their information! When I worked for a software company, it was the same way. I actually had one irate customer tell me that he was doing us a FAVOR by not “downloading our software for free” so I better give him a valid serial number to register his software (he had an upgrade that was several hundred dollars cheaper than the full version he needed.) People want to blame everyone else for their problems. And I get people who have kids in the background (parents!) who mumble, eat loudly on the phone, hang up with out saying goodbye or thank you (I’ll be asking them if there’s anything else and I just hear a click,)and who generally act completely rude. Now, yes, this is a common complaint, but I do get plenty of people also who act their age on the phone. I find it frightening how many people act like teenagers with the IQ of a pygmy rat on the phone. Whatever happened to growing up and assuming responsibility? When I’m in my twenties and find myself to be more mature than some 40-50 year olds I meet, I find that alarming!
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Barracuda
YOU WRITE:…. “I find it frightening how many people act like teenagers with the IQ of a pygmy rat on the phone. Whatever happened to growing up and assuming responsibility? When I’m in my twenties and find myself to be more mature than some 40-50 year olds I meet, I find that alarming!
Really?
What does your ‘customer service’ job have to do with this topic — adults dressing like teenagers, etc?
Sounds like you’re off to a bumpy road for a career –
Do you know how to use paragraphs when posting? I would suggest you check into it.
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I have not read her book, but maybe it has to do with the rise of psychology over theology and the myth of adolescence – that there is a middle period between adulthood and childhood – and these years are wracked with angst and rebellion rather than a time to start being a man/woman.
For an interesting read on this: “Do Hard Things” by Alex and Brett Harris (http://www.therebelution.com)
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Barracuda, I understand what you mean. I’d rather deal with a person who dresses like a kid and acts like a grown up then the other way around.
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Victoria: The topic is people ACTING their age, not DRESSING their age. We’re talking about people dressing their age because that is one of the ways acting your age manifests itself. Sometimes, Victoria, you just come across mean.
Twpeck: You are totally right. People talk about adolescence as if it’s a period of “discovering yourself” or something stupid like that. I think you’re right, it’s more of a time of preparation.
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OP
YOU WRITE:…
“Victoria: The topic is people ACTING their age, not DRESSING their age. We’re talking about people dressing their age because that is one of the ways acting your age manifests itself. Sometimes, Victoria, you just come across mean.”
Here is a quote from the TOPIC post:
Acting ones age isn’t translated into what they wear. There are many professional people who are talented, and proficient as to what they do, but find dressing younger than they are to be their ’style’ — it has nothing to do with acting out anything, its just the way they dress.
OP, maybe you need to take a look at how you address adults, as a teenager you come across as a kid without manners sometimes.
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If what Barracuda says doesn’t interest you, Victoria, ignore him/her.
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Kbells, I post to whom I wish, just as you do. I would offer you the same advice, ignore those people that don’t interest you, its a CHOICE.
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The title of the book being discussed is The Death of the Grown-Up. The second excerpt has examples not just of adults dressing young, but also of adults behaving immaturely.
I think OT was just showing compassion for Barracuda, and Kbells is trying to be a peacemaker.
Victoria, I wish I could send you a Dove chocolate in a post–my family calls them happy pills… We all need one every once in a while!
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momof5
Disagreeing with people transpires on this blog every single day.
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Sounds like you’re off to a bumpy road for a career
Victoria,
I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you were commenting about the frustration Barracuda has experienced rather than criticizing his/her choice of occupation.
Do you know how to use paragraphs when posting? I would suggest you check into it.
You can defend your comments all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that a lot of the time you come across as mean.
I like a lot of the content of your posts, but the tone is often disappointing. I don’t think I’m alone in suggesting that you sure do seem quick to speak down to people.
A while back I learned a very important lesson–if a lot of people are interpreting your behavior negatively, you should consider believing them.
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Graceland,
YOU WRITE:… “I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you were commenting about the frustration Barracuda has experienced rather than criticizing his/her choice of occupation.”
I don’t need your “benefit of the doubt” –
I’ve read many of your posts, found them to be picky and petty, but at the same time skipped making a remark to you about them. Strange how one person complains and then the parade starts.
YOU WRITE:… “A while back I learned a very important lesson–if a lot of people are interpreting your behavior negatively, you should consider believing them.”
You can believe whatever you like, but I don’t adhere to that philosophy, if I DID, I would become just as wishy washy as some here on the blog, walking ‘lock step’- that isn’t something I admire in anyone, anymore than I admire petty remarks and whining -
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Seriously, Victoria, think about trying the Dove chocolate Happy pill.
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Thanks, Kbells, but I’m more than capable of standing up for myself. Victoria, my “choice of occupation” is none of your dang business. In case you hadn’t noticed, the economy is in the tank and I had to settle for what I could get. I don’t NEED your approval. My life is nothing I’m ashamed of.
As for what this has to do with the topic, I thought it wouldn’t be much of a leap from adults dressing like children to discussing adults ACTING like children. And I am in a good position to see that on a daily basis where I work. For real life horror stories, visit http://www.customerssuck.com and read the War Stories section. You might find it interesting. Oh, and as to your opinion of my writing style? Bite me.
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Barracuda – 59
YOU WRITE: ….” Victoria, my “choice of occupation” is none of your dang business. In case you hadn’t noticed, the economy is in the tank and I had to settle for what I could get. I don’t NEED your approval. My life is nothing I’m ashamed of.
No one was talking about your job in a derogatory way. If you don’t want people making remarks about your posts, then don’t bother making reference as to what you do.
YOU WRITE: …..”You might find it interesting. Oh, and as to your opinion of my writing style? Bite me.”
Your last sentence and the words you have used are FOUL, and are not allowed on this site. READ the rules for yourself.
Nothing I wrote in post 47 warrants this behavior.
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I did read the rules for myself–perhaps you should do so as well. Your posts at 47 and after were rude and insulting, and I do not apologize for the sentiment of my response. I do not tolerate blatant rudeness. If you want to be treated with respect, treat others with respect. Not a difficult concept. I didn’t get angry until I read your condescending remarks in your follow up posts. Now, returning to the topic, does anyone else think that people dressing like children is a symptom of a larger problem (i.e., people acting like children,) as opposed to a major problem in it’s own right?
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Hmmph, I mean in “its” own right, not “it’s”. Sorry, it’s late.
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Boy, I sure miss all of this
heh,heh
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Victoria: I’m sorry for being disrespectful, but I mean what I said. I really do respect and admire your opinions.
Barracuda: A soft answer turns away wrath. Also, I completely agree with, “Now, returning to the topic, does anyone else think that people dressing like children is a symptom of a larger problem (i.e., people acting like children,) as opposed to a major problem in it’s own right?” Indeed!
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