I haven’t done so.

I have. And do.

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Mixing it up?

As you put it “So ’nuff said for now.” Yes I’m sure you feel that way, what a surprise LOL

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Frank: … check …

Michael Martin (117): … and that every soldier had the right to decide for himself the validity of the cause …

Frank: … check …

Michael Martin (117): … and therefore, in effect, had the right to determine the terms of his own service.

Frank: … uhh, nope.

The first two premises do not necessitate in the conclusion. And furthermore, I simply don’t believe number three.

IOW, opposing conscription and opposing participation in a war one believes to be unjust do not in any waty add up to the supposed right to decide/determine all the terms of one’s service.

As to your supposition about how I would respond “if a Mexican army were to invade California tomorrow” … that is utterly unfounded in anything I have said.

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To which I responded (112):

This is obviously a matter of differing eschatologies, and eschatology is not a mater of orthodoxy. So ’nuff said for now.

To which you responded by asking me if I believe all men will be saved.

To which I said no.

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Below is your post #58, this appears to be the point at which we disagreed and then it went on from there:

Frank: I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. Don’t you think that the Great Commission:

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” ~ Matthew 28:18-20

… Don’t you think that obedience to that command eventually results in civil society — not through politics, but through the worldwide spread of the Gospel?

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Frank as I said later in post 60

Frank,

That is a great passage of Scripture, but that isn’t “building a civil society” that is going out, preaching the Gospel so that all who believe will be saved. Christ didn’t die for a ‘civil society’ to be incorporated into this world, but that those who Believed might be saved.

We will never see a ‘civil society’ here on earth, this world doesn’t embrace what the Bible teaches for the most part.

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:14

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Then you continue in post 61

But it cannot be denied that, if Christ’s bride is successful in His commission, “civil” society — Christian society — will be a result, to the glory of God.

Children will play with vipers. Sheep will lie down with wolves. Men will beat swords into plows.

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Civil Society will not be found before Christ’s return, the Bible doesn’t teach this. The Great Commission is to reach as many people for Christ as will listen and believe on the LORD Jesus.

Christ came to earth to save us from our sins, that was his reason for coming, we needed a Savior, and HE is our Savior -

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On the contrary, I have been paying close attention to what you have been saying.

In case you have forgotten, we had this discussion about military service in great detail a couple of years ago.

You emphatically held to the position that conscription was unbiblical in all cases, and that every soldier had the right to decide for himself the validity of the cause and therefore, in effect, had the right to determine the terms of his own service.

I suspect that this personal and general opposition that you seem to have to military service drives your search for reasons to oppose almost every military action. Over the years, reading your many posts, that is the general impression you leave me with.

Therefore, I take all your opposition to the war in Iraq with a grain of salt. I do not give them near as much consideration for reasonable credibility as I would otherwise.

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Frank: Well, that’s the Great Commisson in short-hand. But He actually said more than that:

1) All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Therefore,

2) go and make disciples of all the nations,

3) baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

4) teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;

5) and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

There’s a bit more there than just telling all nations about Christ, wouldn’t you agree?

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Frank: No:

Frank (112): You seem to think that I have argued for universalism — that “ALL” men will be saved.

I haven’t done so.

I haven’t argued that all men will be saved, because that idea isn’t biblical.

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Do you believe that after its all said and done, every single person is going to be saved, and spend Eternity with the LORD?

Of course Christ said that we should tell all nations about Him, but that doesn’t mean that ALL will believe. Some will, and those will go to be with the LORD when he returns, those who don’t will not be spending Eternity with the LORD.

32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Matthew 10

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If you really view me as you have described in (109) above — “his vision of a proper army … is one where every soldier is a volunteer and makes his own sovereign decisions on everything done” — you simply have not been paying attention all these many months.

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