Comments on: Gender versus color http://online.worldmag.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/ A forum for discussion of news that arises at the intersection of Christianity and culture. Mon, 15 Mar 2010 01:23:47 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: theselittleones http://online.worldmag.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/comment-page-2/#comment-325017 theselittleones Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:44:56 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/#comment-325017 Re: #60 From a literal reading of the KJV Bible, it's "sorrow" that is the curse on women. Genesis 3:16-17 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life..." The same word, "sorrow" is used for Eve and Adam. Now, of course, I'm not disputing that there is pain in childbirth, only that it may part of childbirth even prior to the Fall. Birthing a 15 inch head is not going be easy. Because of a broken relationship between God and man, there is brokenness in everything. Women no longer trusts their bodies to do what God intended. Instead of relaxing, we tense up our bodies and that causes us to feel more pain. Instead of accepting the laboring process, we want the doctors to tell us what to do, give us pain killers so we can't feel our muscles to push and many times all those medical interventions lead to C-sections. All those are sorrowful things. Not just the pain. Re: #60

From a literal reading of the KJV Bible, it’s “sorrow” that is the curse on women.

Genesis 3:16-17

“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life…”

The same word, “sorrow” is used for Eve and Adam.

Now, of course, I’m not disputing that there is pain in childbirth, only that it may part of childbirth even prior to the Fall. Birthing a 15 inch head is not going be easy.

Because of a broken relationship between God and man, there is brokenness in everything. Women no longer trusts their bodies to do what God intended. Instead of relaxing, we tense up our bodies and that causes us to feel more pain. Instead of accepting the laboring process, we want the doctors to tell us what to do, give us pain killers so we can’t feel our muscles to push and many times all those medical interventions lead to C-sections. All those are sorrowful things. Not just the pain.

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]]> By: Joel Mark http://online.worldmag.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/comment-page-2/#comment-324226 Joel Mark Fri, 25 Jul 2008 01:43:42 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/#comment-324226 At our church we encourage each other to preach at all times, and if necessary, use words. At our church we encourage each other to preach at all times, and if necessary, use words.

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]]> By: kBells http://online.worldmag.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/comment-page-2/#comment-324224 kBells Fri, 25 Jul 2008 01:36:12 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/#comment-324224 And Arcadia a couple of the women on that list have spoken at my church. And Arcadia a couple of the women on that list have spoken at my church.

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]]> By: kBells http://online.worldmag.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/comment-page-2/#comment-324201 kBells Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:52:45 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/#comment-324201 Arcadia, the fact that you never heard of these ladies is more an indictment of your bad secular education than of my Christian education. Trust me, I knew who Annie Armstrong was long before I knew who Jonathan Edwards was. Also, why does having a husband who is also a leader cancel one's influence. The Christian community has brought together quite a few very effective husband/wife teams. Will you only accept the names of single women or women with house husbands? Arcadia, the fact that you never heard of these ladies is more an indictment of your bad secular education than of my Christian education. Trust me, I knew who Annie Armstrong was long before I knew who Jonathan Edwards was. Also, why does having a husband who is also a leader cancel one’s influence. The Christian community has brought together quite a few very effective husband/wife teams. Will you only accept the names of single women or women with house husbands?

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]]> By: opinionated teen http://online.worldmag.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/comment-page-2/#comment-324087 opinionated teen Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:32:35 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/#comment-324087 Arcadia We women are charged by God not to preach. "...women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says." (1 Corinthians 14:34) Can you give me a single verse that says, "Husbands, rule over you wives" ? Here's one to chew on: "The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife."(1Cor. 7:4) Or how about this: "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her..." (Ephesians 5:25) So our husbands belong to us just as much as we belong to them. Not only that, but our husbands should be willing to DIE for us, even if we don't deserve it. Arcadia
We women are charged by God not to preach. “…women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.” (1 Corinthians 14:34)

Can you give me a single verse that says, “Husbands, rule over you wives” ? Here’s one to chew on: “The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife.”(1Cor. 7:4) Or how about this: “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her…” (Ephesians 5:25) So our husbands belong to us just as much as we belong to them. Not only that, but our husbands should be willing to DIE for us, even if we don’t deserve it.

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]]> By: NJLawyer http://online.worldmag.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/comment-page-2/#comment-323954 NJLawyer Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:28:44 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/#comment-323954 Galadriel, I don't know if this answers your question, but there are a lot of things men do -- and even like to do -- that would never interest me in a million years simply because I'm a girl. What feminists wanted (and this is a mild interpretation) was to give women the opportunity to do what they want to do. I have often thought it would have been great if their movement had started a decade earlier, that I would have been taught more cabinetmaking skills by my dad. I think I might have had a great business designing kitchens or furniture, maybe even building a house. Where the feminists went wrong was to insist that everyone be "equal." This is the same mistake liberals are still making. The truth is everyone is different. They should have left it at equal opportunity instead of insisting that women act like men. They didn't help men any either. Galadriel, I don’t know if this answers your question, but there are a lot of things men do — and even like to do — that would never interest me in a million years simply because I’m a girl.

What feminists wanted (and this is a mild interpretation) was to give women the opportunity to do what they want to do. I have often thought it would have been great if their movement had started a decade earlier, that I would have been taught more cabinetmaking skills by my dad. I think I might have had a great business designing kitchens or furniture, maybe even building a house.

Where the feminists went wrong was to insist that everyone be “equal.” This is the same mistake liberals are still making. The truth is everyone is different. They should have left it at equal opportunity instead of insisting that women act like men. They didn’t help men any either.

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]]> By: arcadia http://online.worldmag.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/comment-page-2/#comment-323930 arcadia Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:59:18 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/#comment-323930 Momof5: Thanks for your testimony. But, if morning sickness is your god's way of showing women the way, why do only some get it? Or is it only god's way of punishing women for the sins of weak men??? If a submissive woman gets bad morning sickness does that mean she should take charge? After all, please recall that it is your god who also punishes women by making them eat their babies. Momof5: Thanks for your testimony. But, if morning sickness is your god’s way of showing women the way, why do only some get it? Or is it only god’s way of punishing women for the sins of weak men??? If a submissive woman gets bad morning sickness does that mean she should take charge?

After all, please recall that it is your god who also punishes women by making them eat their babies.

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]]> By: TJ http://online.worldmag.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/comment-page-2/#comment-323929 TJ Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:56:59 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/#comment-323929 Arcadia, how many folks do you think would be allowed to preach at Joel Mark's church? Do you think that every male would be allowed to do so? Arcadia, how many folks do you think would be allowed to preach at Joel Mark’s church? Do you think that every male would be allowed to do so?

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]]> By: arcadia http://online.worldmag.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/comment-page-2/#comment-323925 arcadia Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:52:36 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/#comment-323925 Kbells: I have heard of perhaps 15 of your purported religious leaders. Mostly those whose husbands are known religious leaders who are perceived to have advanced the theology of their faiths. (With all due respect, when one mentions the names Dobson, Graham, Luther, Edwards and LaHaye, the images which come to mind are hardly female). And there are a few who became known in other fields. The simple truth is that NOT A SINGLE ONE of these supposed religious leaders would be allowed to stand up in Joel Mark's church and preach the gospel. Nor could they ever be in a position to make any major decision concerning the church. He would not let them. Nor would they be allowed to preach in a Catholic church, or in a host of other Christian sects' churches, or, for that matter in a synagogue. True or false Joel?? And, by the way, what did your god mean when told women that their husbands shall <b>rule over them</b>? Outkast: That was truly pathetic. Why don't you take a crack at the same question. Kbells: I have heard of perhaps 15 of your purported religious leaders. Mostly those whose husbands are known religious leaders who are perceived to have advanced the theology of their faiths. (With all due respect, when one mentions the names Dobson, Graham, Luther, Edwards and LaHaye, the images which come to mind are hardly female). And there are a few who became known in other fields.

The simple truth is that NOT A SINGLE ONE of these supposed religious leaders would be allowed to stand up in Joel Mark’s church and preach the gospel. Nor could they ever be in a position to make any major decision concerning the church. He would not let them. Nor would they be allowed to preach in a Catholic church, or in a host of other Christian sects’ churches, or, for that matter in a synagogue.

True or false Joel?? And, by the way, what did your god mean when told women that their husbands shall rule over them?

Outkast: That was truly pathetic. Why don’t you take a crack at the same question.

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]]> By: TL http://online.worldmag.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/comment-page-2/#comment-323919 TL Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:47:37 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/07/23/gender-versus-color/#comment-323919 How about Deborah - judge in the OT? How about Deborah – judge in the OT?

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