In defense of the plastic bag
Former Washington lobbyist Stephen L. Joseph must like a good challenge because he’s certainly found one in his latest endeavor to save the plastic grocery bag. It may seem like an unlikely cause in an increasingly environmentally conscious culture, but where environmentalists see a symbol of waste and excess and the incremental destruction of nature, Joseph sees a challenge to improve the image of a throwaway product. As head of the Save the Plastic Bag campaign, Joseph is working to keep plastic bag manufacturers in business.
How can a former anti-litter activist support plastic bags? Joseph points out, and some environmentalists agree, that in many ways paper bags are just as bad for the environment as plastic ones. While paper bags decompose, they also release methane while doing so. While plastic bags are sometimes made with petrochemicals, paper bags require more energy to be made and recycled. The evidence that plastic bags kill marine life is not conclusive, and it’s generally acknowledged that the detritus from commercial fishing is much more damaging. “My research into this issue has proved to me that something funny is going on,” says Joseph. “The anti-plastic-bag campaigners are not being challenged. It’s like a court case where nobody’s representing the other side.”
I admire his tenacity, but it seems to me that plastic grocery bags are a lost cause. Nearly every grocery store I frequent now has its own version of the environmentally friendly, reusable shopping bag–and I’m seeing more and more people actually using them. Can the plastic versions really survive?




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back to top55 Comments to “In defense of the plastic bag”
I like the idea of re-usable bags too. I use one for my lunch every day.
But if the plastic bags go away, what will I line my waste baskets with?
As for the paper bags, I like them also. The make good drying containers (along with newspapers) for roughed out woodturnings.
If they release methane when decomposing, why don’t we use this feature to help alleviate our growing energy problem?
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If paper bags release methane when decomposing, don’t newspapers do the same thing? Why don’t we see the same hue and cry to get rid of newspapers too? Is it because newspapers are a thing of the past already (not!)? I sure still see a ton of them being thrown away and put in the recycling bins.
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I prefer the plastic bags. I can grab several at once with the handy handles. (Shopping for 7 makes for lots of trips back and forth with paper bags).
We reuse the bags to tote clothes for overnights for the kids, for wet clothes after swimming, to tie up diapers back when we dealt with several of those a day, to top off boxes for sending gifts, to make deliveries around the neighborhood, etc, etc, etc.
I stuff an empty tissue box with plastic bags to keep in the van. They come in handy for all sorts of things.
When we used paper bags, we either tossed them or used them to start fires in the fireplace. Much more waste. And bagging milk in paper bags just doesn’t work well.
I’m also a cleanie. I don’t like the reusable bags just because they get dirty and need to be washed–surely laundry has an environmental impact as well, not to mention the worth of my time.
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And speaking of environmentalism’s unintended consequences (like burning the paper bags), the high cost of electricity (since Congress won’t allow us to drill or build nuke plants, etc…) has lead our family to keep the heat off during the day in winter and burn wood instead.
It’s helped keep our bill lower, but doesn’t burning wood and paper cause more environmental concern than, say, clean-burning coal?
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Mak it Man,
I say skip the making of the paper bag altogether. We just need to cut down all the trees we need (it is a renewable resource) and convert them into methane directly. This is a win, win, win, win for all concerned.
Not only do we have a renewable energy resource but these trees also store excess carbon from the polluted air while we are waiting for them to grow big enough to be processed into methane.
Plus we would then need plastic bags to put our stuff in , to be used for trash can liners so the people making these plastic bags and selling them won’t lose their jobs.
I say, Save the plastic bags from extinction by cutting trees down to be be processed directly into methane, so we can plant more trees to clean to the carbon out of the air we would put there by burning the methane and save the jobs of millions of people while creating even more jobs for people cut trees and prcess them into methane, deliver the nmethane, sell it, etc.
I’m also guessing there ia all kinds of stuff we could burn or turn into methane to free up additional waste bump sites so we could plant additional trees there too.
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It is more than Drill, Drill, Drill, we also need to Burn, Burn, Burn, and Plant, Plant, Plant to fix this energy shortange and global warming all at the sme time.
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I like both plastic and paper bags for different reasons. I line my plastic kitchen trash bag with a paper bag. It’s sturdier. I carry down heavy magazines and newspapers to the recycling in a doubled paper bag. I use the plastic grocery bags for a variety of things, but those I don’t use, I return to the recycling area of the grocery store. I don’t just throw them away.
Even when I use the reuseable grocery bag, I still want the plastic bag to keep it cleaner and keep spills from milk or juice from meats getting on my bag.
This is a question of developing good recycling habits and not just throwing these items away.
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I liked the idea someone had (and is currently working on) to develop tiny organisms (bacteria I believe) that will digest old tires and similar waste, and convert it into fuel.
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Not to mention, creating a sustainable and growing economy that is carbon neutral and picture perfect.
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Who would have guessed saving adn preserving adn conmserving the hated plastic shopping bag would end up saving the world – from us?
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I also believe that wadded up plastic bags would make a great insulating material since insulation properties are all based on little spaces of trapped air.
If you stuffed them into empty two liter plactic soda bottles and put the lid back on the bottle to trap the air inside and make the bottle strong and then stacked the bottles properly you could easily make a great load bearing wall for constructing houses for the homeless.
If you painted the bottles black and pushed air though the open spaces between the bottles w\ith a solar powered low velocity fan, you would have a fine solar colletor to heat the homelees homes for free too. This will be quite handy as the next Ice Age approaches and we all find ourselves out of a job and homelss after Obama’s reign starts adn socialsim settles like an Iron Curtain over America.
Remember the 6 P’s.
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I’ve been using the cloth bags at one of my local grocery stores for more than a year now. I like them a lot because they’re the size and shape of paper grocery bags, are sturdy, and have an insert at the bottom that helps them stand upright in the crate I have in the trunk of my car. But, as they have the stores name featured prominently, I won’t take them into any other chain’s stores. I’ve been looking for some similar bags to use anywhere, but haven’t found any.
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We are having a real problem with housing prices dropping like a stone and foreclosures – not to mention the credit crisis. Since the Socialists have now taken the responsibility to pay for all these losses with yesterdays bail out, we need to fix this immediately.
The reason that prices are dropping is that there are just too many homes in foreclosure (too much cheap supply) no one wants to buy them (no demand) and no one can get a loan to buy them anyway (no credit) because the banks don’t even know what property is worth now a days.
The best way out of this is to bulldoze these houses, burn them for fuel and plant trees where the house once stood. The next thing you know there are no more cheap houses that no one wants to finance or buy so the housing market recovers, prices soar for everyone’s houses making us all fee rich again, the banks know what they are worth so they will loan money again and we end up having a cheap renewable energy supply that cleans the air of carbon. People who have lost their jobs in the banking, mortgage and construction industries are back to work in the blink of an eye.
Who would have though that saving plastic bags would end the housing and credit crisis, fix unemployment, create a renewable energy resource that is carbon neutral and making everyone feel better like they were on prozac or something?
Pretty soon atheists will find God, gauys will go straight for good, world hunger will cease and there will be world peace. Let me think about that a minute. I’ll get back to you all shortly. Don’t give up hope for a better future you deserve more than anything. The second coming of Christ must be near
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#8 Make it Man,
I hear they are developing Nano-bacteria that can create electricity directly out of nothing in a parallel universe so nothing could ever go wrong in ours.
This new technology is based on the ‘Big Bang’ Theory, where the entire huge universe, massive amounts of matter and energy were created from absolutely nothing – with nothing and no human intervention whatsoever.
This new technology would be microscopic and much easier to do that a huge big bang sort of thing on such a massive scale. It is called ‘Tiny Spark’. Scientists say it will be revolutionary. Sadly, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are blocking the funding to create this alternative energy resource, just like they are blocking everything else related to America ever becoming energy independent and free from those that want us dead.
I guess we are stuck adn these two Socialists know what is best for us in the end – if the end is near.
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My sister actually asked for grocery bags for her birthday this year, so we bought her some stylish ones from ReusableBags.com… This is becoming a new targeted consumer product…
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KayVee, you may find that site I just mentioned helpful… They can get kinda expensive, but I think they’ve have what you’re looking for. Again, it is:
http://www.reusablebags.com
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environmentalists see a symbol of waste and excess and the incremental destruction of nature,
My family just got a new puppy, and these plastic bags are EXACTLY what the kids use to discard the “waste” they discover in our back yard.
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I don’t use reusable bags. I simply buy too much in one trip to make it useful! Plus, I would have to remember to bring them in with me. I use both paper and plastic bags. We reuse both for many things, lots of which have already been listed. What will I line my bathroom trash can with, if not an old Target bag?!
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Thanks, NPBEERS, that bag is exactly what I’ve been looking for. I ordered 3, so that’ll take care of me for the foreseeable future. I’ll pass the address along to friends who are also looking for that type.
The other day, Random was asking why we blog here. Well, even though it’s a small thing, this was one reason. I’ve been looking for those bags for months, and all I had to do was tell my WOW friends I needed help, and there it was
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MomOf5 — surely you know that it takes far fewer trips from the car carrying in groceries if you put the kids to work doing it? I have seven kids and haven’t unloaded a car full of groceries (by myself) for years. I walk in the house after a shopping trip and say “Groceries!” It’s their job to unload and put away.
TL — you can line your bathroom trash can with what I line mine with: nothing. We just daily dump it out into the regular trash and if it needs wiping out, we do that with a little wadded up toilet paper. And about buying too much in one trip: Why does reaching a certain volume of groceries make reusable bags un-useful? I don’t understand that. You just need more bags and now that you can get them for $1.99 each at most grocery stores cost is barely an issue anymore.
Generally — I use my reusable bags as much as possible. If I forget or need garbage bags, I get paper at the store (we use a paper bag inside a hard-sided plastic box for kitchen trash). And I STILL end up with a container of plastic bags regularly that need to be recycled. Even if you make an effort to quit using plastic bags at the store, you’re not going to be OUT plastic bags. They’ll still find their way into your home (or it isn’t hard to get a couple if you need some).
I get amazed at hearing “reusable bags are just too … ” fill-in-the-excuse. GET OVER IT! Lol. They’re GOOD for our world whether you believe in global warming or not. I was at the drug store last night and the guy two people ahead of me in the check out lane was bemoaning how the (big city area two hours west of our town) has started making stores charge for plastic or paper bags. The check said, “I hope they don’t start doing that here!” and I piped up with “I hope they DO!” (with a big smile on my face of course).
I love reusablebags.com — I get our stainless steel water bottles there, too. Don’t get me started about plastic water bottles.
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Endyblue – My point about buying too much is that the bags sold at grocery stores are TINY! I would need about a dozen of them for one shopping trip. And, since I tend to have 78 things on my mind at once, remembering to tote around a dozen fabric bags just won’t happen. Especially when I can get free bags at my grocery store, saving me $24. Perhaps if they start charging for them, I will change my tune. Until then, I just make good use of them by reusing them as I need to. Bags never hit the trash in my house, unless they are used as trashbags!
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My smallest canvas bags hold more than a plastic bag. I also have a pretty large sized reusable, purchased at Trader Joe’s. I’m glad everything gets reused at your house! That’s a good thing and I’m not attacking you personally. Just the excuse-making I hear behind why people won’t get in the habit of using something that is so beneficial to the world God gifted us with. I too forget my bags at times — but that doesn’t stop me from having them available and TRYING to develop the habit. I figure any use of them is better than no use of them. It’s kind of like the cloth diapers I’m now using for the first time on baby #7. I don’t use them over night and when we’re out and about sometimes I get lazy and use disposables — but I’m still using less than half of the disposables that I’ve used for other kiddos. Better than nothing …
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OutKast,
I’m guessing that the puppy waste ending up in r plastic bags will be just the thing to make them biodegradeable in a land fill. If there isn’t some kind undescovered plastic eating bacteria in puppy poo – then there is no God
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My experience is that the reusable bags (which cost $1 around here) hold about three times as much as the plastic bags, and they don’t tear as the plastic ones often do.
Since I work across the street from the store where I do my shopping, I go about every other day rather than saving up shopping for once a week (and then trying to cram 3 gallons of milk and a few pounds of cheese and I’m not sure how many yogurts into the fridge). So two reusable bags is usually enough for me.
But I forget them pretty often, so we have at least a dozen plastic bags a week to be reused (dog poop, trash can liner, holding cans and bottles to go to recycling, etc.) or recycled. And every once in a while I get a paper bag for recycling newspapers.
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Endyblue, #20
I shop on Fri. afternoons while the kids are outside and Hubby is working on music. They’d be happy to help, but they’re so dirty, I pass. (Trust me!) My husband (unless he’s completely lost in the creative process) usually unpacks the car while I put things away. He’s a gentleman!
I do shop at Sams Club, where no bags are provided at all (milk is $1/gallon cheaper there, and we go through a lot of milk!). So I do bring along 2 coolers and a few hot/cold bags (cheese in bulk, eggs, things like that) and a big insulated market bag for apples, etc.
I guess I get some green credit after all!
I have to say, though, that I am very thankful I was born AFTER disposable diapers and wipes were invented. Cloth diapers and washcloths would be, well, a challenge for me.
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I did buy one of the disposable bags and keep it in the car. Sometimes I forget it. I would not use it exclusively, since I do reuse all the paper and plastic bags for different things. I do not have a whole family to buy for anymore.
I’m old enough to remember when you were a louse for using paper instead of plastic. Now it is the opposite and a real louse for not using the reususable. I suppose I will be a louse for using the cloth bag when we hear about the sweatshop labor or cotton shortage or whatever.
I take a medicine that dries my mouth out to the point of not being able to eat anything without water. When I had gestational diabetes a sugar drink was not an option. I am very grateful for plastic bottles of water available for when people need them. I have recycled them for years, also.
I used cloth diapers and washed them myself, hanging them on the line when I could. The disposables were not very nice and I was too broke to use much of them anyway. I guess I was so environmentally savvy. A regular saint. Well, we all need something to feel good about.
Oh yeah, I do the Sam’s Club thing too, like MOMof5. Gosh, I’m just feeling better and better about myself.
Did I tell you about my recycling? Wait… I have to go polish my halo.
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#26
I have to amend one statement–I’m not sure I was BORN before disposables, but I’m grateful they’ve been available my entire adult life!
We recycle the plastic water bottles, too. When my husband travels around teaching piano, we pack a cooler with 5 or 6 of them, 2 frozen, then refill when he gets home. (No office water cooler…)
If you do recycle water bottles, though, be sure not to drink the water that’s been frozen. A health nut friend who knows these things says they’ve been linked to cancer. Something about freezing the plastic causes it to leach a compound into the water…
Plastic bottles are about the same to me, too, as plastic cups, and are much more convenient for mommies to dispense to the kids from the neighborhood who congregate in their yards. I’m a little reluctant to make them drink from the hose… Isn’t that supposed to be unhealthy, too?? (Everything is, these days…)
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Momof5,
I wouldn’t worry too much about freezing plastic water bottles. There have been emails going around getting people worried about all kinds of supposed health hazards, including that, but they usually get their facts wrong. You can check at snopes.com for details. Their page on plastic bottles quoted a doctor who pointed out that if there were toxins in the plastic bottles, they would be that much less likely to leach out at cold temperatures.
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Thanks, Pauline! I should’ve checked–sorry, everyone.
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TL,
You don’t get those plastic bags for free. I guarantee the cost of bags is included in the store’s prices. It may be invisible to you (just like the store’s electric bill, it’s wages, etc.), but those expenses are all calculated into the price on the shelf.
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I fought it. I really did.
Why should I pay a dollar for a bag when the store gives me them for free? For their free advertising (it has the store’s name on it)? For a bag that looks like it will just fall apart? Another corporate gimmick riding on green paranoia.
We recycle our plastic bags – we reuse them as trash bags, or we bring them back to the store to either be used again or recycled there.
Then my wife bought some of the new “green” bags when I wasn’t looking. Now I’m a believer. They hold more, fit in the van better, are easier to carry, and they are strong. We even used them on vacation.
Now we just have to remember to bring them when we go shopping.
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Meijer has the biggest bags, for the lowest price: for $1 I get a nylon bag that is several inches taller and wider than WalMart’s.
I bring them in to Target, WM, etc.–so what if it says Meijer on it? The clerk says, “You should get one of ours!” (half-joking). I point out that mine is bigger and cheaper and they never say anything else. Mine also has two corner loops for holding taller items up straight (wine, spaghetti, frozen bread).
I can get, on average, $50/30 lbs worth of groceries per sack. I don’t put meat or milk in them, and when we forget, we reuse the plastic as trash liners, like everyone else.
I’m perfectly willing to buy and ship for anyone who’s interested–just email me–I bet I’m cheaper than the websites!
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KI, #25. I was wondering if anyone remembered the time when people debated using plastic rather than the standard paper bags. Changing to plastic was great for the environment.
But that was then.
My wife, of course, used cloth diapers. She says disposable diapers is civilization’s greatest invention.
I’m enjoying the CD.
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Actually I don’t use the store bags for my lunch.
I attend the International Woodworking Fair in Atlanta every other year, and the vendors there give them away to help you hold all the loot they give away as advertising….
I’ve found all kinds of uses for their bags. I can carry small pieces of wood, or finished turned pieces or lunch or…
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I remembered my reusable bag this afternoon – and was happy to see the nickel “bag refund” taken off my total (I’d forgotten the one store does that). So in 20 trips, the bag will have paid for itself. (And the one bag held everything I had bought, which would most likely have taken three plastic bags.)
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Thanks, Chas. We’re glad you are enjoying it.
Young mothers have a lot of great inventions for their convenience. They need all they can get too!
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We’re working on growing hybrid plastic bag bushes in our garden. It does take some genetic engineering to get the different varieties to cross-breed (so don’t tell the econ-fanatics on us), but as soon as we get the bugs out, they will overrun the country.
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#37
Like love bugs?! (If you haven’t experienced them, you haven’t really experienced Florida.)
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Or even south Georgia–I always hated those couple of weeks of summer when the love bugs swarmed–yuck!
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I just bought some reusables; they got cheap enough for this Scottish soul. Publix has them for a dollar, and they were buy one, get one free. I bought four (just two bucks!) and two were enough for that day’s groceries so I just left the other two in my trunk. Years ago I shopped at a store that put paper bags inside plastic bags (the capacity of paper, the carry-ability of plastic), and these look like they’ll be much the same.
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I really would not mind seeing plastic bags go. I believe they may be more expensive than paper bags right now. Plastic things are just never as nice as when they are made of other material.
In defense of cloth diapers…
I have used cloth for the last 3 babies and truly do not believe it to be the great inconvenience that so many say it is. Momof5, I hope you will check out the many choices in cloth diapers and see how much you’ll save and how much you’ll appreciate not having to buy disposables all the time. I dislike plastic (in case you didn’t get that from the first paragraph) so I use wool covers (called soakers) that do not leak and only need to be cleaned when soiled. The cloth diapers I use are called Chinese prefolds and are very thick and last a long time. Used diapers go into their own container and it’s just another load in the washer and my littles don’t mind hanging them up to dry for me. My babies have all potty trained at 18 months. I’d like to think cloth diapering has something to do with it.
Some old fashioned things are worth the time and effort. Especially if they save money.
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Babies who are clothed in cloth diapers also toilet train earlier. They’re more work at first, but it’s worth it when the young toddler uses the bathroom on his own earlier than a lot of babies who wear disposable diapers.
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One thing many forget: Plastic grocery bags are reusable for groceries! (do I here a collective “DUH!”?) One grocery chain around here (Hy-Vee) used to give a nickel discount for every paper or plastic bag the customer brought in and used. I don’t think they still do that, but it was a great incentive to reuse. I am sure stores would not mind us bringing in bags for reuse (though it may confuse some of the checkout personnel).
May I rant here on a related subject? When I go to the store, the baggers no longer know what they are doing. In the old days, the bottom of the bag was lined with cans, then lighter weight items on top to fill the bag. Now (at least at our local Wal*Mart), they fill one bag with cans, often doubling the bag, then put one or two bags of chips in another, and any non-food items in separate bags, even if it is one small bottle of aspirin. I usually re-bag and leave two or three bags there for them to reuse. That is one thing I like about places like Aldi, where I can bag or box the groceries as I see fit.
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The problem with Aldi is I’ll go in there and fill my basket with goodies then realize at the conveyor belt – oh, yeah I forgot. I have to bag all this stuff myself! Great store with some good stuff if you know what to buy.
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Peter L,
Hy-Vee is the store I mentioned that is giving a nickel discount for using the reusable bags, which they are strongly encouraging (I got one of my bags from them the day they were giving them away one to each customer).
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Bianca #42
I find the following very difficult to believe:
http://tiny.cc/nodiapers
But it’s really in the news now. As a mere man, and more or less toilet trained, I will stay out of it.
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I’m just saying it’s worked in our experience.
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OK, I will think on this. However, I refuse to start over as a new parent at my age.
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I understand!
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I have friends who potty train their kids early. I just *DO NOT* want to deal with the accidents and the general ick of leaks and oopses.
You’d think that all that wouldn’t bother me anymore, but I’m the replace-what-got-soaked type. I get up in the middle of the night to start laundry when there’s an accident. The child bathes, I scrub, and can relax when every spot of the offending accident is gone. (The kids are trained to call for me rather than get up on their own. I don’t want it tracked all over the house.)
I’m laid-back about a lot of things, but NOT this!
So I’ll be using disposables!
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I have heard that the disposables keep the child from feeling wet, which makes it more difficult to potty train. Some moms and daycares use the thicker potty training pants, rather than pull-up type diapers.
A friend of mine had to use soakers for one of her children who could not tolerate plastic pants over diapers.
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That’s true. Also, At least in our experience, the messy cloth diapers are more uncomfortable for the children, spurring them on to feel for the urge to use the toilet so they don’t have to feel the mess in their pants. Another point is the cloth diapers are actual cotton clothing that they’ll be wearing their whole lives. We don’t wear plastic underwear as adults. Biblical child-rearing is centered around preparing a child for adulthood – not a life of perpetual childhood, or an opportunity for him to delay growing up as long as he can.
Please, disposable diaper parents, I’m not saying you’re irresponsible or unbiblical. I’m just giving our view.
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I agree that disposables are better for the parents, rather than the children, but knowing myself, I enjoy my babies better when the potty problem is very controlled. Wet or messy diapers I can handle if it’s all nicely contained, but I truly get grossed out if the outside of their clothes is damp or worse.
Better to use disposables and be relaxed and happy than to use cloth and be stressed out.
# 53 I do agree that we’re to prepare our kids for adulthood. I’m very conservative about child rearing other than diapers/pull-ups. Last baby was born at home with midwives. We keep our kids with us (including infants and toddlers) in church. We homeschool. We teach the kids to work with a will, to work carefully, and to work cheerfully. They do chores and serve outside the family as well.
And I feel grateful for the freedom in Christ to use disposables!
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Amen, Momof5.
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