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Four propositions for education
While over at Phi Beta Cons, I saw the title of a new book on education that might be of interest to our readers: Real Education, in which Charles Murray (one of the authors of The Bell Curve), elucidates four propositions about education that will change how we do it. They are:
- “Ability varies.”
- “Half of the children are below average.”
- “Too many people are going to college.”
- “America’s future depends on how we educate the academically gifted.”
What do you think of his propositions? We are addicted to #1 because of our misunderstanding of “All people are created equal.” We ignore #2 because of #1. In many ways, #3 is the easiest problem to solve, because if colleges can find a healthy way to fragment into vocational schools (carpentry, graphic design), professional schools (law, medicine), research schools (engineering, biochemistry), and liberal arts schools (philosophy, history), then the problem will turn into a solution. And if we fix #1, #2, and #3, then #4 will change, too.
back to top37 Comments to “Four propositions for education”
“Half of the children are below average.”
Uhmmm, no. This is confusing mean with median.
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Actually, no again. “Mean” and “median” are both averages. Furthermore, recall that the author also wrote The Bell Curve. In a bell-shaped distribution, median = mean = mode.
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Depends on what you are looking for and what you are measuring.
Most people are above average in something.
I am above average in being below average.
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To Stubob
I could be wrong about this but I think you are mistaken.
Take three number 1, 2, 27
The mean is 10
The median is 2
But it has been a long time since I studied this in school.
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Nick Peters,
Stubob specifically referred to a bell-shaped distribution, which 1, 2, and 27 is not. In a bell-shaped distribution, most values are relatively close to the average, with relatively few outliers at either extreme. In that case, the mean and median will be pretty much the same.
If I took only the people I work with daily (a few dozen people) and lined them up by height, there would be some very tall, some very short, and some in the middle. It’s quite possible that the median would not be the same as the mean. If I took the entire population of the community I live in (I think around 30 thousand or so), my guess is that the median would be extremely close to the mean.
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Back to the post…
Public education through 12th grade no longer gives education to non-academic subjects. Shop class and Home Ec is not in favor. Everyone must excel in academic disciplines. We no longer teach anything else. And everyone is expected to go to college or they are considered losers.
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Bob Buckles:
And everyone is expected to go to college or they are considered losers.
Well, they are much more likely to make a lot less money. And that is how most of us keep score.
You seem to be thinking that there are some people who should not be allowed to go to college. Whom did you have in mind? Anybody who can’t afford it?
I am highly suspicious of calls for reduction in the educational level of the populace.
It seems to me they almost always come from the wealthy who don’t want to be taxed or the religious who really don’t want a lot of people thinking critically. And, like it or not, in today’s system, nobody gets exposed to any significant critical thinking until they get to college.
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…and almost nobody gets exposed to serious science until they get to grad school.
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I wholeheartedly agree with #3. I teach a night class at a community college (Spanish) and see a lot of students who will never make it in a four year institution of higher learning. It is a sad state of affairs when almost half (43% in 2000) of college students take some kind of remedial (called developmental in academia) classes. If those students were directed toward a vocation that interests them, they would live happier lives and the cost of higher ed just might go down.
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Arcadia #7- I think you misunderstand what Bob is saying. While I agree to be skeptical of calls for lower levels of education, I disagree that someone with less than a BA or BS makes less money. Have you had to call a plumber or electrician? The good ones live quite comfortably, making around $30-$50 per hour, depending on where they live.
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I think Bob is concerned that kids who can’t get it together academically are failing in school and thus in life as a result. Here in California 25% of high school students drop out before graduation. That’s a terrible statistic. And I agree with Bob, part of the reason is they’re being required to take classes which they don’t connect with, they fail because they’re not prepared for, or they don’t see the point of.
(Excuse the grammar!)
Our illustrious governor just announced all students will have to take Algebra by eighth grade. That’s a travesty for a lot of kids. I didn’t take it until ninth grade and managed to graduate from college–yet Schwartzenegger is insisting everyone take it by eighth grade whether they’re prepared or not. I predict higher drop out rates.
As for the gifted . . . after sitting through interminable parent meetings in three states, four school districts and for four different kids, I don’t think anyone really cares except the people who get extra money–who in my experience don’t always use it for those gifted kids.
I’m pretty negative on this subject.
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Education in anything is intended to pull folks apart: you will have the single best in any field. You will have the worst who nonetheless still meets the minimal standards be it in endoscopy, differential equations or Biblical Greek.
The problem with state-run education is a system of one size fits all which will never be adequate to the mix of demography we throw in at the front of the school machine assembly line.
The solution seems to be more dumbing down of the course content. Or else giving pupils either a go or no go evaluation.
But Murray is correct. Ability varies.
And as Thomas Sowell have preached ad nauseum, those who go into teaching are normally within the bottom 50% of their graduating college class.
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Others might have already said this better but here I go:
We gutted vocational and tech training. Most likely due to the cost of teaching those subjects (saws, tools, shop room equipmt etc). So we have a huge need for skills like carpenter and plumber.
Meanwhile, with exceptions the apprenticeships in those and other high-pay fields are not promoted or publicized.
Add to this mix the contractors who entice illegals to work for substandard pay, zero health benefits etc
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One of the major problems with trades or vocational training is that the trainees have a kind of self-limited earning capacity. I know lots and lots of 60+ year old execs, clerks, teachers, etc, but no working brickmasons, plumbers or steamfitters or even electricians.
Of course there are exceptions, but generally anyone who makes a living by the sweat off their back, either gets injured or breaks down or is rendered obsolescent at some point and needs more medical care and more training, not so easy to do after 20 years out of school.
Moreover, historically these trades have been much more subject to the local and regional whims of the economy–I wonder if those advocating training a lot more of them (llama, Peter L?) are willing to provide the kind of job security that traditionally accompany white collar jobs?
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I’ll agree with the first three propositions, but #4 is wrong. America’s future depends on how everyone is educated…but that doesn’t mean a college education.
Peter L -
I agree that plumbers make good money and I’ve pointed that out to my kids. Good paying jobs require post-secondary education of some sort – not always university. I’ve also pointed out that the plumber or auto mechanic’s back is shot at age 50, and it is the last 15 years before retirement where a college degree in a worthwhile area makes a significant quality of life difference.
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Sawgunner: Your kvetch seems to be with “state run” education. Are you proposing some kind alternative? Standardless education only for those who can afford it? State subsidies to whoever claims to be able to educate kids? So far, the reports I have seen on charter schools have not been encouraging.
I maintain that one of the highest goals of any society is to provide EVERY child with the OPPORTUNITY to go as far in school as s/he can.
And I think we have made considerable progress in this area over the last 50 years. Not as much as, say, the Europeans or some of the third world countries which started from virtuallya zero base, but progress still.
A well-trained mind will be more creative, more adaptable and, I think, happier. The first two are keys to a country’s economic well-being and the last is, despite what most hear in church, most important of all.
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Arcadia, God has no problem with us being happy. He would prefer for us to be happy; that’s just not always congruent to His plan.
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Hmm this bit about how the “below average” only have a rudimentary knowledge of reading — that simply flies in the face of a whole lot of experience. This is pessimism dressing itself up as being contrarian.
But let’s pull the four points apart. First, how do we measure? What do we measure? You cannot even begin to start a discussion until you address the question of metrics. Here, I suspect, Murray may be wanting to bring back the Bell Curve IQ tests data. With this, also comes the notion of how we decide about abilities. Does the individual decide? or is this a case of one more aptitude test?
Next, let’s ask, “Who decides?” Murray is worried that there is a mis-distribution of labor, and so his response is what? Evidently, have some educrat administer the appropriate test and determine where you belong. Just off hand, for all the children of Adam Smith, I wouldn’t be going out and calling THAT conservative.
Finally, does the future depend on the academically gifted? This by far is the most suspect point. The nature of great giftedness is its concentration, yet what makes great enterprises possible is rarely the great gift so much as the great drive. The generalist is often the one leading the specialist.
Now let me put on my dark, liberal hat on: I think that Murray is actually acting on behalf of the upper middle class (oh, roughly those with income >$100K or maybe >$125K). In an era of growing economic inequality, this is using education to enforce class divisions. The elite makes the rules who goes on, and will we be surprised that those who succeed are remarkably those of a certain class? Oh, I think not.
Against all this, it is wise to remember the example of the original Sunday School, where children were taught to read, independent of their social status. The Gospel is a great leveller; Mr Murray is far from that Good News.
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How will this affect late bloomers. I had to take a remedial class in the subject I ended up majoring in.
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#17 OPINIONATED TEEN
Please tell us the names of the different major groups (stoners, jocks, smacks, whatever they are called now days) in HS. If you can also tell us how big each group is, we can make a guesstimate of how many might be ready for college/university and how many will be ready to go directly to work. We need your expertise.
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#14 Arcadia
“I know lots and lots of 60+ year old execs, clerks, teachers, etc, but no working brickmasons, plumbers or steamfitters or even electricians.”
Who owns the brick masonry business, the plumbing shop, the electricians shop? Is owning a shop not work? Maybe they made enough $ that they have retired and are iiving off their savings. Maybe they are rich!
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#7 Arcada
“You seem to be thinking that there are some people who should not be allowed to go to college. Whom did you have in mind? Anybody who can’t afford it?”
I don’t think that anybody should be kept out of college. I do think that there are many kids who like hands-on type classes. They like to do things, not study things in books. They can be smart, but they may not like indoor things, office type work.
Tree fellers,
Auto mechanics,
Home builders,
Small business owners,
Truck drivers,
Cooks,
Hippies,
Bums
The choices are endless.
I once worked with a man whose father was an aerospace engineer who invented the sail-board. Guess which vocation he is into now? I don’t know, but I could guess which he likes best.
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I agree with Bob Buckles in #6. Some people are gifted academcially and others are not. It’s not fair, let alone practical, to assume that everyone should excel in academic subjects and cut back programs in music, art, shop, home economics, and agriculture.
Arcadia, #7: “I am highly suspicious of calls for reduction in the educational level of the populace.”
Your statement assumes that years in school, or even a diploma, is the same as reaching a particular educational level. If we dumb down curriculum to make sure everyone ends up with a piece of paper, then the populace is actually less educated than setting high standards that some people simply cannot meet.
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OT:Arcadia, God has no problem with us being happy. He would prefer for us to be happy; that’s just not always congruent to His plan.
I had “no problem” with my 4 year old daughter being happy. I “preferred” that she be happy. In fact, whenever possible I did everything in my power to make her happy. It didn’t always work out, because I had limited power. And I even sometimes had to punish her for doing something wrong or dangerous.
But your god supposedly has unlimited power and some kind of sense of justice. You believe it to be a “Just” god, do you not?
Yet despite its unlimited power and its supposed sense of justice, innocents are regularly slaughtered and suffer terribly in large numbers in both natural and manmade disasters.
And the ONLY possible defense you can ever mount for such behavior on the part of your god is that it is part of some kind of “plan”. Despite the fact that 10,000 innocents die today in a flood, 100,000 tomorrow in an earthquake, millions next year in a war, or only a single little girl of a disease, it is all just part of the “plan” of a supposedly benificent and omnipotent god which actually really “prefers” that we all be happy.
I really, really don’t mind that you believe something like that. It is absolutely your right.
But what ticks me off is when you use this god’s purported “plan” as an excuse to give up on those who are in distress, or to oppose the efforts of scientists who seek to make the human condition better, and in so doing discover truths uncomfortable to religion.
That is where your right to believe and oft asserted right to enforce those beliefs crosses my desire to make more humans happy and the human condition better.
You may contend that eventually your god grants the “right” people eternal happiness (or lots of virgins, whatever the case may be), but that is speculative and still leaves the “left behind”.
On the other hand I know what science and education have done and will continue to do–that is not speculative, it is tangible and visible in every hospital, weather bureau, engineering department, and medical lab in the country. It is even visible in most Federal and State agencies which impose standards for services, products, and activities which affect the environment. Millions of lives are saved every year as the result of such human endeavor.
You are welcome to your god and whatever it is you believe it wants. I’ll take my chances with human ingenuity, love, and power in a neutral universe which gives not a damn about us.
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All of these matters involve perception, and our perception of things has gotten very warped in the United States.
We shouldn’t make value judgments of people based on academic ability or academic accomplishment.
We shouldn’t make value judgements of people based on their career (barring something immoral) or based on their income.
When somebody says, “College isn’t for everyone,” folks take it as something demeaning. But nobody would consider it demeaning to say that working on the family farm isn’t for everyone or that working as a musician isn’t for everyone.
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#16 Arcadia (Howdy from Vernon Parish, La)
I’ve heard about lots of so-called charter schools where the owner/principal lives a lavish life (expensive globetrotting travels). Setting up any type of school public or private with no accountability for how the $ gets spent is setting us all up for financial chicanery.
I’ve no doubt private schools can be as bloated and wasteful as gummint ones.
If privatization is to be implemented I’d say dont do it earlier than perhaps the Junior high years. By high school age kids should be tracked and routed away from what they or their parents deem to be irrelevant academic puffery. If we could get more kids focussed on things like masonry, HVAC or other non-exportable jobs then perhaps our reliance on illegals could be lessened, no?
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In Re:14
Its just as easy for 60 year old execs to get fired for being paid too much, when a younger college grad can get paid much less for the same skills.
One of the biggest issues I see, is that at least when i came through high school 10 years ago, there was no money management class. Sure there was economics, but we never discussed how to budget, how to prepare for a day when we could not work, how to fill out a 1040A, etc. Its a class that should be added at every high school and required.
We have a coworker here at the office, who became a master machinist, used to land an airplane on top of a car, is a great guitar player (been in bands and still plays) and didnt go back to get his mechinical engineering degree till he was in his 40s. He’s just now about to get his PE. I guarantee you he knew more than any other student as well, because he had real life experience and skills. He just didnt have a sheet of paper.
He applied himself, and when Americans apply themselves and spend the money they make wisely they do just fine, regardless of degree or vo tech status. There was an article awhile back on a gentleman who worked at a toll booth most of his life in new york i think. The man had made over half a million dollars from simply investing wisely over his many years of minimum wage work.
But can someone explain to me why there are no money management courses in high school/college?
You can get a job doing anything in America, its how you spend the money you earn that determines your life long success.
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I have to agree with Michelle, BobB, Kyle. Sometimes we expect things of people when they simply cannot deliver. I was advised to bring my third daughter for speech therapy when she had preschool screening. I had an acquaintance who was a speech therapist and asked her advice. She told me that the problems my daughter had were caused by some nerves in the brain that would eventually change and thus the problem would end. This is the simplified version. As a result and because of experience gained already as a parent, we skipped the therapy. The therapy would not have cost me anything, but would have cost the state quite a bit.
My daughter speaks perfectly today. When her brain matured to the level it needed to the problem was solved. Some young people simply do not have the capacity for the advanced thinking that some classes take until they are in their twenties.
As far as gifted students, I worked at getting a program into my local school and volunteered for it. I was dismayed at some of the materials used and found it was not really helpful. I am not saying all such programs are not. We do lose some of these students and do need to do something to inspire and give opportunity to them also.
The more opportunities for alternative educational options, the more parents will be able to use what is best for their particular needs. All different kinds of schools can have corruption or difficulties. That doesn’t mean we should throw all of them out.
Also, I do agree that students should be taught some money basics.
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in Re: 24
It sounds like your idea of “Just” is that God owes you something. Whether the human race is still perfect or not, God owes us nothing.
Yet the Bible says He still gave. Sure in Adam’s fall we all got screwd, but God also gave one man, one son as salvation.
“On the other hand I know what science and education have done and will continue to do–that is not speculative, it is tangible and visible in every hospital”
What have they done? Nothing. They have not extended life, the average age of death is still under 80 years. They discover more diseases day after day, with fewer cures, meanwhile they take more and more from your wallet to make us “happy and the human condition better”.
“But what ticks me off is when you use this god’s purported “plan” as an excuse to give up on those who are in distress…”
I’m not sure what your referring too, but how many churches and christian and other religious organizations responded to katrina, to the floods along the mississippi? How many are involved in prison ministries, homeless ministries, elderly ministries etc etc? Thousands. I havent seen anyone give up on those who are in “distress”.
How many at World, continue to discuss such things with you? They havent given up either apparently.
The only means of happiness and bettering the human condition, come from Christ alone. The world, academics, an easy wealthy life, cant give you lasting satisfaction.
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Arcadia – Job security no longer exists at the white collar level either.
And the last generation of my family were mostly in the trades (operating engineers, plumbers, pipeefitters, electricians), and many of the current generation are so, they are plying their trades until retirement. The skilled trades are in demand (there aren’t enough of them).
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KRM: I suspect that white collar job security is not what it used to be. And it does seem that job loyalty in the private sector is also dwindling. Everything just seems to be changing faster in the economy than it used to.
And yes, if they can stay healthy, and keep up with the technology, tradespeople will always be in demand. But I am thinking of a certain large truck engine manufacturing plant which used to be located in the town where I lived. I knew a lot of the workers and a fair number of the managers.
As the place gradually dissolved (well, not quite, it’s still a shadow of itself) the managers for the most part moved on to manage other things–the trades guys haven’t fared so well. I know a few who successfully used re-training programs and a couple who turned into really good entrepreneurs, but a lot of ‘em are still limping along, living off their workers comp claims, SSDIB, or their college educated wives’ salaries, working at Walmart, or tending bar. They simply didn’t have the strength or whatever else it took to adapt.
After most of the jobs disappeared, every few years the rumors start to fly about a new plant of some kind coming to town or a new owner expanding the old one, but even those died out eventually.
I have three daughters–two went to grad school, while the first (and, I think, the smartest) one did not finish college. Guess which one I worry about the most, indeed almost every day.
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Thorn: What is your definition of “Just”? To me, yes it implies some kind of expectation of fair treatment. Anything else is unjust.
I myself expect nothing of any god, it is you who somehow does expect something, but only if you spend enough time on your knees.
And when you say “we all got screwd in Adam’s fall”, don’t you really mean that your god did it? It created the whole array, didn’t it? And then, of course, after a few thousand years it wiped us all out, then it waited around for few thousand more years and sent some kind of mutant offspring to “save” us.
And as for your dismissal of two thousand years of medical progress, it’s utterly silly. But, by all means, next time your child or parent gets sick, go to church, murmur some incantations, burn some smelly stuff, and hope for the best.
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As Arcadia alluded to, there is an anti-education bent (especially about higher education) among conservative Christians, and Worldmag in particular. There are continual write-ups on here that denigrate higher education. The only thing that escapes criticism is homeschooling. Public schooling is regularly trashed on here. Higher education is continually portrayed in a negative light.
I suppose if you perceive education as a threat to your religious beliefs, you’re gonna be negative about it.
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Anlir
YOU WRITE:… “…there is an anti-education bent (especially about higher education) among conservative Christians, and Worldmag in particular.”
Most of those on this blog have attended university, and have more than one degree, or don’t you read? You obviously make it up as you write.
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Okay, here we go.
Arcadia, if God was completely just, I would be headed for Hell. He used a loophole in the rules to bring us to fellowship with Him. God created that loophole because He knew Adam and Eve would sin. “Why did He even create them, then?” you may ask. Because He wanted someone to love Him. And if He made us love Him, it wouldn’t be real love, would it?
Now, humor me for a moment. Say there is a God. Do you think, as the Creator of the Universe, He might be a LITTLE BIT smarter than you? Maybe so smart, that everything that happens (which He is in control of) works out so that as many people can end up in Heaven as possible. As I said, He created us with the choice to love Him, so if some people don’t, He can’t exactly change their minds without taking away their choice. Right?????
Anlir, the reason public education gets slammed around here is because it sucks.
Mr. Buckles: The basic groups I’ve noticed are the Popular Chicks/Cheerleaders, the Popular Guys/Jocks, the Skaters, the Hispanic Guys, the non-Popular Freshmen, who keep to themselves, and the Other non-Popular Teens, who pretty much mingle. I’d say about a third of the school is ‘popular’, a fifth of the school are freshmen, a sixth of the school is Hispanic Guys, and the rest are a combination of Skaters and Others.
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The problem is the school system’s effectiveness has been greatly reduced. Now it takes K-12 + a Master’s degree (total 19 years of schooling) to accomplish what was formerly possible by age 14 to 16.
More details here:
http://www.everygoodpath.net/WhatATeenagerCanDo
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In Re: 32
Arcadia,
The rain falls on everybody. I wasnt dismissing the medical field, I just refuse to glorify it as if it can bring me lasting happiness.
Justice implies that everyone is held to the same standard. God holds everyone to the same standard. Fair treatment means that everyone is held accountable to the same standard. The punishment is the same for all should one not meet the standard.
Fairness never excuses justice. To excuse justice, would mean in a sense that you are being unfair.
In school, tests are graded across a classroom the same. For those who are in error, penalties are handed out. To ignore an error on purpose for one student is not justice, nor is it fair.
So for God to be Just, he must hold everyone accountable to the same standard, which he does.
In Adam’s fall, (yes Adam’s responsibility, Adam’s fault, God didnt do it), justice requires that his choice in not meeting God’s standard will be punished. Justice may be delayed by mercy, but it still comes.
“Yet despite its unlimited power and its supposed sense of justice, innocents are regularly slaughtered and suffer terribly in large numbers in both natural and manmade disasters”
Nicodemus had the same problem. He couldnt grasp that his spiritual soul was more important than his physical nature.
What is death by hurricane, genocide, car wreck, cancer, heart attack, old age, etc matter?
Death is justice. Who is innocent? Every man dies, not every man really lives.
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