Arcadia,

The rain falls on everybody. I wasnt dismissing the medical field, I just refuse to glorify it as if it can bring me lasting happiness.

Justice implies that everyone is held to the same standard. God holds everyone to the same standard. Fair treatment means that everyone is held accountable to the same standard. The punishment is the same for all should one not meet the standard.

Fairness never excuses justice. To excuse justice, would mean in a sense that you are being unfair.

In school, tests are graded across a classroom the same. For those who are in error, penalties are handed out. To ignore an error on purpose for one student is not justice, nor is it fair.

So for God to be Just, he must hold everyone accountable to the same standard, which he does.

In Adam’s fall, (yes Adam’s responsibility, Adam’s fault, God didnt do it), justice requires that his choice in not meeting God’s standard will be punished. Justice may be delayed by mercy, but it still comes.

“Yet despite its unlimited power and its supposed sense of justice, innocents are regularly slaughtered and suffer terribly in large numbers in both natural and manmade disasters”

Nicodemus had the same problem. He couldnt grasp that his spiritual soul was more important than his physical nature.

What is death by hurricane, genocide, car wreck, cancer, heart attack, old age, etc matter?

Death is justice. Who is innocent? Every man dies, not every man really lives.

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More details here:
http://www.everygoodpath.net/WhatATeenagerCanDo

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Now, humor me for a moment. Say there is a God. Do you think, as the Creator of the Universe, He might be a LITTLE BIT smarter than you? Maybe so smart, that everything that happens (which He is in control of) works out so that as many people can end up in Heaven as possible. As I said, He created us with the choice to love Him, so if some people don’t, He can’t exactly change their minds without taking away their choice. Right?????

Anlir, the reason public education gets slammed around here is because it sucks.

Mr. Buckles: The basic groups I’ve noticed are the Popular Chicks/Cheerleaders, the Popular Guys/Jocks, the Skaters, the Hispanic Guys, the non-Popular Freshmen, who keep to themselves, and the Other non-Popular Teens, who pretty much mingle. I’d say about a third of the school is ‘popular’, a fifth of the school are freshmen, a sixth of the school is Hispanic Guys, and the rest are a combination of Skaters and Others.

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YOU WRITE:… “…there is an anti-education bent (especially about higher education) among conservative Christians, and Worldmag in particular.”

Most of those on this blog have attended university, and have more than one degree, or don’t you read? You obviously make it up as you write.

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I suppose if you perceive education as a threat to your religious beliefs, you’re gonna be negative about it.

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I myself expect nothing of any god, it is you who somehow does expect something, but only if you spend enough time on your knees.

And when you say “we all got screwd in Adam’s fall”, don’t you really mean that your god did it? It created the whole array, didn’t it? And then, of course, after a few thousand years it wiped us all out, then it waited around for few thousand more years and sent some kind of mutant offspring to “save” us.

And as for your dismissal of two thousand years of medical progress, it’s utterly silly. But, by all means, next time your child or parent gets sick, go to church, murmur some incantations, burn some smelly stuff, and hope for the best.

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And yes, if they can stay healthy, and keep up with the technology, tradespeople will always be in demand. But I am thinking of a certain large truck engine manufacturing plant which used to be located in the town where I lived. I knew a lot of the workers and a fair number of the managers.

As the place gradually dissolved (well, not quite, it’s still a shadow of itself) the managers for the most part moved on to manage other things–the trades guys haven’t fared so well. I know a few who successfully used re-training programs and a couple who turned into really good entrepreneurs, but a lot of ‘em are still limping along, living off their workers comp claims, SSDIB, or their college educated wives’ salaries, working at Walmart, or tending bar. They simply didn’t have the strength or whatever else it took to adapt.

After most of the jobs disappeared, every few years the rumors start to fly about a new plant of some kind coming to town or a new owner expanding the old one, but even those died out eventually.

I have three daughters–two went to grad school, while the first (and, I think, the smartest) one did not finish college. Guess which one I worry about the most, indeed almost every day.

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And the last generation of my family were mostly in the trades (operating engineers, plumbers, pipeefitters, electricians), and many of the current generation are so, they are plying their trades until retirement. The skilled trades are in demand (there aren’t enough of them).

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It sounds like your idea of “Just” is that God owes you something. Whether the human race is still perfect or not, God owes us nothing.

Yet the Bible says He still gave. Sure in Adam’s fall we all got screwd, but God also gave one man, one son as salvation.

“On the other hand I know what science and education have done and will continue to do–that is not speculative, it is tangible and visible in every hospital”

What have they done? Nothing. They have not extended life, the average age of death is still under 80 years. They discover more diseases day after day, with fewer cures, meanwhile they take more and more from your wallet to make us “happy and the human condition better”.

“But what ticks me off is when you use this god’s purported “plan” as an excuse to give up on those who are in distress…”

I’m not sure what your referring too, but how many churches and christian and other religious organizations responded to katrina, to the floods along the mississippi? How many are involved in prison ministries, homeless ministries, elderly ministries etc etc? Thousands. I havent seen anyone give up on those who are in “distress”.

How many at World, continue to discuss such things with you? They havent given up either apparently.

The only means of happiness and bettering the human condition, come from Christ alone. The world, academics, an easy wealthy life, cant give you lasting satisfaction.

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My daughter speaks perfectly today. When her brain matured to the level it needed to the problem was solved. Some young people simply do not have the capacity for the advanced thinking that some classes take until they are in their twenties.

As far as gifted students, I worked at getting a program into my local school and volunteered for it. I was dismayed at some of the materials used and found it was not really helpful. I am not saying all such programs are not. We do lose some of these students and do need to do something to inspire and give opportunity to them also.

The more opportunities for alternative educational options, the more parents will be able to use what is best for their particular needs. All different kinds of schools can have corruption or difficulties. That doesn’t mean we should throw all of them out.

Also, I do agree that students should be taught some money basics.

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