God tells us that children are a blessing, and then He teaches us how to do our part to make that evident!

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“…there is no one point in time when the cells change from non-human to human.”

Since both sperm and egg are fully human and contain nothing non-human, how can you say that “…the cells change from non-human to human.”?

What in the world were they?

It seems that your “nuances” are just so much smoke in the breeze.

I’m outta here!

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I see human life as starting a long a continuum that is there is no one point in time when the cells change from non-human to human. Somewhere along the third trimester, the fetus starts to attain enough human characteristics to be considered fully human. The defintion of person and hence rights is to be left by the courts — a Solomon like task. So yes there is nuances to the discussion.

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“The question is when does human life begin — when scientist don’t agree, nuanced answers are possible. “

I am nuanced. It seems to me that there are only two points of contention as to when human life begins; when an egg is fertilized or when the baby is born. Death can come at either point.

Again, I am so old that I remember when people thought that if a couple of people got pregnant they then got married. They got married “for the child.”

Is it really so bad to wait to have sex until after you get married?

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I was very seldom spanked as a child, but my brothers sure were. I remember being spanked once when I had done nothing wrong. I was not particularly bothered about it, but a cousin who was with me, was very bothered and mentioned my innocence to her mom. She told my mom and my mom actually apologized. I was amazed.

I spanked my children very rarely and when they were quite young. The second child hardly ever neeeded a spanking. One look was enough.

I tried another method of discipline that our church and county taught. It was much more painful emotionally and ineffective in the long run.

My third child was born later and was spanked the least. She had temper tantrums particularly in public, until one day I finally spanked her in a quasi public place. The bad behavior tapered off. It had been months of nonsense and pain for not only us, but also for anyone else having to put up with her tantrums. That is a story in itself.

My advice would be to never spank if it isn’t needed. Get lots of ideas from others and use whatever works with your child. They are all different. I do agree that a well-place swat on the bottom or hand, in the right manner and in the right time, can be a lot less painful than other things. By the time a child is school age, spanking shouldn’t be necessary very often, if ever.

A shepherd’s rod was used to protect the sheep and guide them. It was not used to beat the sheep, unless it had to be directed away from danger.

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I’m not sure about spanking in schools; I tend to think that it’s place is in the home rather than at school.

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The tendency for absolutist positions is more prevalent in the American right today than the left. The talking points of the Republican party – tough enough, decisive, leadership, forceful, unequivocal, etc whereas the Democratic candidate (no matter the election ) is more often labeled whishy washy, weak, conciliatory, etc.

Right — Salazar, Pinochet, Franco, Mussolini, Greek military, Argentian military, Hirohito, Petain, and Hitler (he’s yours — he purged the socialist element to gain the corporate support he needed)

Left — Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mugabe, Ceassucu

I say its a toss up but the military involvement tends to be a right wing phenomenon.

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“Similar to Obama and the abortion question in Saddleback, I agree we need to be nuanced and flexible in our positions.”

Abortion is death. How can you be “nuanced” about death?

“In this case, we need to err on the side of the child’s safety and establish the basic principle that spanking is abuse.”

I don’t agree.

” I think you would agree the tendency for absolutist positions is on the right (tough leadership)…”

Mao (Commune – ist)
Stalin (Commune – ist)
Hitler (Nazi=National Socialist German Workers Party)
Pol Pot (Commune – ist)

No, HRW, I don’t agree.

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I’ve mentored some younger moms at the end of their ropes with their young children. The mothers are desperate for help–they love their children, but can’t control them.

In one particular case, I counseled the mom (who thought she was spanking, but she was just swatting unpredictably) to spank Biblically, calmly, and immediately when disobeyed. She started taking the child aside calmly, right away, and spanking firmly, and behold, the child started to behave better! And the improvement has lasted!

Another couple, who has a toddler who was generally sweet, but whined a lot, visited for a weekend. My husband and I encouraged them to give her a little spank for the whining.

The mom called back later that week–the first day home she felt like she spanked all day, day 2 was about 1/2 that, and day 3 was a delight for the first time in a very long time. She and her daughter can play together now instead of enduring many time-outs.

The changes I have witnessed, and the fruit in our own family, makes me thankful for the wisdom in Proverbs that shows us how to help our children learn self control!

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