Comments on: Pastor’s addiction leads to lie

By: outdeep

outdeep — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:59:41 +0000

I would say it depends on the church and the character of the elder board. In a healthy church I was in church discipline was always done with a view to redemption. In an unhealthy church I was in, prominent leader’s sins were covered up and little fry’s sins were made an example of. I don’t think I would know the answer unless I was familiar with the board handling the situation.

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By: Ethan V. Jones

Ethan V. Jones — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:48:20 +0000

No offense, but I get the feeling that those who responded to my comment completely missed my point.

This is my question: will this person face church discipline, and will his status in the church and the community have any effect whatsoever on the dispensing of justice? Will he or will he not be granted special consideration?

Look at it this way: pretend that he’s not “good-looking”. Pretend that he’s not a multi-million-dollar “Christian” recording artist and superstar evangelical pastor. Pretend that he’s just a lowly church janitor or the social misfit in the church that everyone quietly avoids talking to. Now imagine such a person is caught viewing pornography on a regular basis and lying to everyone about having an illness so he can get attention and (perhaps) financial support. What would your feelings about him be then? Would church discipline be applied “with a view to redemption” or would everyone instinctively recoil in horror, brand him as a potential child molester and have him hauled off to jail for sexual misconduct and fraud?

The reason why I ask is because somehow I already know what the answer would be, and it’s not something anyone really wants to acknowledge or hear but is forced, at the end of the day, to admit.

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By: outdeep

outdeep — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:27:43 +0000

Covenant Eyes:

The product you set forth is a good tool. (For those who don’t know, Covenant Eyes is a program that will send to your accountibility partner or wife a report of all the porn sites you go to. You can’t take it off without your accountibility partner knowing about it).

However, I think the church is a little wrong-headed in promoting Covenant Eyes as the “solution”. I can have this on my computer at home and still act out in my hotel room. The point is, the solution is found in some sort of recovery program where I am meeting in a safe group and talking to others on a regular basis and dealing with the “addict within” as opposed to depending on some sort of external restraint. External restraints won’t help me if the basic compulsivity of my heart remains the same. This is where I think things like working the twelve steps are so effective.

I think the church’s emphasis should be on sex addicts coming out and working a program (such as Celebrate Recovery, SA, SAA, S&LA, etc.) with other men. Tools such as Covenant Eyes, meetings, calling sponsor daily, out-of-town plans, etc. are all tools that support the program and recovery. But the tools itself do not amount to recovery.

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By: Luke

Luke — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:15:29 +0000

Well Stubob I was going to say porn, or if available, sex. Both would be a healthier way to channel stress than drinking.

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By: CovenantEyes

CovenantEyes — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:55:57 +0000

There can be a culture in some churches where leaders are untouchable. Certainly some in the Planetshakers movement have been concerned about this for a while, but I hope that this episode will help them to establish a greater degree of accountability in their midst, especially for their pastoral staff. I wrote up an article about Guglielmucci today: http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/2008/08/28/pastor-confesses-to-16-year-porn-addiction/

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By: outdeep

outdeep — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:16:50 +0000

In the healthier churches I’ve been in, church discipline has always been done with a view to redemption and helping the individual get better. In my church, when a pastor had fallen, he needed to step down from his public role and the church had helped with counseling and career transition. If the pastor gets into a recovery program that is worth its salt, he will learn to make some form of amends and restitution.

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By: Ethan V. Jones

Ethan V. Jones — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:56:05 +0000

What I want to know is whether church discipline will be applied in this situation and to what extent. Regardless of why this man has viewed pornography regularly and lied to millions of people about having a terminal illness, the fact that he did so remains.

Would blind justice prevail in this case, or would favoritism on the part of church authorities and adoration on the part of ordinary churchgoers elicit undue leniency? Would this man’s status and talent afford him “special consideration?”

I can’t help but think about what would happen if the church’s janitor were caught doing the same thing. Would he receive the same outpouring of love and support, or would he immediately be castigated as a sexual predator, potential child molester and con artist, fired from a job that puts food on his table and hauled off to jail?

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By: Random Name

Random Name — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 00:00:59 +0000

Watch the palms of people’s hands for signs of hair growing.

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By: StuBob

StuBob — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:54:40 +0000

Beer?

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By: Luke

Luke — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:59:45 +0000

I have looked at a lot of porn and I’ve never come close to losing my hair over it, NJL.

Clearly some other element is required other than just “sin manifesting itself physically”! If it were just “sin,” you wouldn’t expect me (and SteveG for sure) to just be skipped over.

“Sin” is a social construct; it doesn’t manifest itself physically. Stress does.

And you know what often relieves stress?

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