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back to top196 Comments to “Whirled Views 9.6”
1) It’s Saturday.
2) Harry Truman?
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It looks like the Feds are ready to take over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac this weekend:
Take over report
This would appear to expose the Federal Government to over $5 trillion in liabilites. By comparison, the Savings and Loan issue was childs play.
It also suggests that our credit markets are still jammed tight and further that the economy will continue to degrade.
When combined with the 6.1% unemployment number, I suggest that increasingly a key electoral issue will be the economy.
And as we saw during the Bush years, cutting taxes will not improve our economy.
Hold on for a wild ride.
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I have a praise report.
Remember how I posted that I stupidly overcommitted my self to a twelve hour school day (2 classes) on Tuesdays because I was given a scholarship to take up to 4 art classes?
Wed. I was in bed with a migraine. The last week was horrendous, too —even for a 20 year old young male colleague. Also, my teacher has been unapproachable because of too much stress in his life.
He had made it clear that dropping his class would make him look bad to the administration. So, there was very little left to do but suffer it out until the next semester.
Here’s the good news:
He called last night, and is requesting that his advanced students skip going to the Tues. evening class and that he’d teach the three of us on Thursdays, 4-8, in semi private session for the rest of the semester.
God really came through for me. The relief is palpable.
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Musings, I beg to differ.
I don’t blame this on tax cuts, but on imprudence on the sides of the lenders and the borrowers.
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This comment takes news quotes taken out of context to create a hysterical impression.
Geneva (Switzerland) – The Large Hadron Collider is just a few days from being switched on, but the scientists in charge of the 17-mile long super collider are already getting impassioned pleas to stop their work, some of the scientists have even received death threats.
On September 10th, scientists at the LHC will fire the first proton beams down the super collider.
Some scientists have theorized that such collisions could cause a miniature black hole to form and obliterate our planet.
http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content-view-39210-117.html
I presume the evangelical Christian community, noted for its support of science and its sturdy opposition to credulous superstition, as well as its belief that it is up to God to destroy the earth and not up to us, is properly scornful of this ridiculous protest. After all, it’s not like CERN is gay or a lefty or anything like that.
9/6 #1
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Outstanding Race to the Top (RTT) post from last week, and not only because it feeds my greedy ego:
Hi friends. I’m going to say good-bye to WOW for quite a while, if not for good. (And no, it is not because I couldn’t change anyone’s mind these past few days…8*) I think Random Name is right–this can be quite addicting. And I have found that when I get on here in the morning, I end up checking it all day long, taking away from my duties here. Just yesterday I was so upset, I ate 5 brownies!! ugg…
Entire post on WV 9/5.
#3
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Eyg
I think you also have to blame the lending fiasco on an insufficient regulatory system. I know conservatives bridle at regulations, but there is a place for them if you want stability. Even the Bush Administration agrees to that when one reads SecTreas Paulson’s remarks on the credit crisis.
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I will agree to that, but I am careful to keep from wanting/expecting too much from government, in favor of personal responsibility.
When it’s always someone else’s fault, we (personally) never learn. Then, government becomes huge and oppressive.
It’s all oversimplified in the interest of short comments, but since I have no problem believeing there is plenty of blame to share. I can freely agree with you, too. But, perhaps not on the same degree of blame.
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I have to agree with you, EYG. I am glad that you are getting some relief. It is such a blessing to have such a scholarship, that I can understand your enthusiasm.
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RN, isn’t “black hole” a racist term?
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Thanks, KI.
You should have seen the difference before and after the phone call.
It was as if the barometric pressure around me lessened. It had an immediate effect on my outlook, and increased my confidence that God can and does save us when we’re ensnared.
I just knew God had worked that out for me.
Alleluia.
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EYG
I think the mortgage crisis was caused because Congress pressured the lending institutions to make loans to underserved people who didn’t have good credit. Banks do not like to make loans to people who don’t have money. The problem is that the people who make the loan are not the people responsible for collecting the money. Llama has explained it before. The loans are bundled and sold to large institutions. Someone gets the commission for making the loan. Someone else collects the loan.
I’ve made tha analogy before: When you go to Charleston, Orlando, or such, you find people who want to give you free tickets, a free breakfast, etc. They want to get you into a sales pitch. These people have no interest in your buying anything. They get money for getting you there. They have no interest in the outcome.
These credit lenders work the same way.
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#10
NT, you are correct. “Black hole,” is not only a racist term, it is obscene as well. It also describes the sub-prime lending crisis as well, or not well, as the case may be. Therefore, I have violated World Mag Blog Terms of Service but stayed on topic. Also, it is Saturday; a holy day for some religious believers.
Whether or not I should be banned from this web site will provoke a Constitutional Crisis, which will inspire our regular Constitutonal Expert to chime in with a post about how the Founders were not Christians, or were Christians, but very weird ones, which in turn will inspire eleventy-seven posters to explain how pure the Puritans were and how Cotten Mather really wrote the Constitution.
My case will then go to the Supreme Court where Justice Thomas will take great umbrage at the term “black hole” and descend from the bench in his robes and physically attack me.
Next the United Nations will get involved, undermining American sovreignty.
#5 of my 10 posts a day this addict allows himself.
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Morning Chas,
Thank you.
That doesn’t sound very smart of Congress. But, I know that wouldn’t be a first.
But, that does seem to strengthen my conviction about the problem of government interference. I have no doubts that all of the intentions were right. But, now look at the list of sufferers!
Usually, I don’t comment about politics. Don’t even know why I did today. I vote, but feel powerless to do little else, except pray. (But, I suppose that’s just as well.)
So good to see/hear from you this morning!
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Chas, it sounds like you agree with Steve Sailer who says this recession is the Diversity Recession.
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Friends,
Today’s theological riddle. Jonathan Mayhew was one of the most important pro-revolutionary ministers to influence America’s Founders. He was termed the “morning gun” of the revolution. He was a Congregational Preacher and he considered himself a Christian. Yet, as Dr. Gregg Frazer points out in the following article:
It is also instructive to point out that Mayhew is not exactly the most reliable authority on what the Bible says. His reputation for unorthodoxy was so pronounced that his ordination had to be rescheduled because not enough ministers attended. He was a unitarian (did not believe in the deity of Christ) and a rationalist who believed that reason was the ultimate determiner of what counts as revelation. He specifically denied the doctrines of imputation, justification by faith, the virgin birth and original sin and held an unorthodox view of the atonement. He denied them because he found them to be unreasonable. Doctrines, which he called “niceties of speculation,” were not of particular interest to him, though, because he believed that there were many roads to God and that one walked them through works. He listed Plato, Demosthenes, Cicero, Sidney and Hoadly among his intellectual influences. His quoted remark in the article that a king can “un-king himself” is completely without biblical foundation. Mayhew’s view of Romans 13 had nothing to do with what Paul said and everything to do with what Mayhew found reasonable under the circumstances.
http://tinyurl.com/5hvjyt
Question: Was Mayhew a “Christian” or not? The answer is very important because it affects conclusions about America’s “Christian” heritage.
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Was Mayhew a “Christian” or not?
Only God knows, Jon, only God knows.
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EYG
We agree on the personal responsibility part as well on behalf pf both lenders and borrowers, though some borrowers did get snookered and many lenders practiced what seem to me to be shady securities deals — a ponzi scheme almost.
Black hole, racist? You guys are kidding, right?
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eyg post 4,
but of course I did not base this on tax cuts.
I said:
“And as we saw during the Bush years, cutting taxes will not improve our economy.”
which is to say that tax cuts will not bring us out of this problem.
If you insist that I blamed this on tax cuts, please identify where I said that?
Otherwise please do not misreprest my posts.
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First Things dotorg had a great article about the fading importance of the old Mainline protestant denominations. Most telling was a reference to a mainline pastor’s prayer spoken shortly after 9/11. No direct reference to Jesus! “And may we receive..” “… and that we would be granted..”
It’s a great article, though perhaps a tad too theologically high brow for this ol’ boy.
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#16 I realize you are setting us up Jon for your favorite subject, i.e. that the founders were pagan, but the scripture is clear.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1Tim 3:16
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 2John 1:7
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eyg po9st 4,
but lets continue the discussion.
I agree:
“imprudence on the sides of the lenders and the borrowers”
caused the present problems with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. And taking a stronger position here than coyote blue, lack of regulation of this mortgage market appears to have led to the crisis AND strong regulation of the mortgage market appears to be about to be imposed by the Bush adminsitration.
In short, it would appear that this is a poster child for why certain classes of economic regulation are required: an unregulated market failed.
One may quibble about the form of the regulation: after the effective takeover, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae will effectively be run by the Federal government. It can get no more regulated by the Federal government than that.
What is perhaps more interesting is exploring the interaction between the tax cuts and this crisis. As you appear to suggest, I agree that they are not directly and simply related.
It is perhaps a long conversatioon, but an outline might be that in the presence of the tax cuts, and the absence of active economic stimulation, an active housing market was perhaps the simplest approach to keeping a flagging economy with some modest degree of growth. From this one can possibly draw a very complicated interaction between the tax cuts and the present mortgage crisis.
It does not appear to be, however, a sound bite type of argument.
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Jon, if it works in our favor or to bolster our position, we’ll readily cheer out that Mayhew was a Xian. (Like Bo Bice, the American Idol runner up or Republican VP nominee Sarah Palin) If not, we’ll say that only god knows. Oh, and Hitler was NOT a Xistian, for your next book.
Oh, and Jon, stop pestering us with that pesky ole history about who was a Xistian and who was not. In the end it doesn’t matter because we’re all about the here and now and don’t need to explain the past misinterpretation of the bible; the infallible book. Our views, moral standards and positions on woman, slaves, sin, honoring your parents, lying, philandering, divorce, fornication, using the name of the lord in vain, coveting, stealing and anything else have never changed. After all, this is the infallible book of god. Now stop nipping at us with history that might refute our position.
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21 & 23,
Heh. Thanks. Just keeping you on your toes and making you aware of arguments that exist within the historical community. You need to know these things else you be deceived by listening to the David Barton’s of the world that there is an “open and shut” case re America’s Christian Founding and that the secularists and revisionists have come along and “stole” that heritage from you.
I noticed in the time that I’ve been posting here the editors have stayed away from promoting the works of Barton, Federer et al. [And they deserve much credit for it.] Is that a coincidence?
I also know that Joe Carter, even before I posted here, never bought into the “Christian America” thesis and that might have something to do with it too.
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Could this WV please be politics-free this weekend? Please? Pretty please?
Klasko and Chas–could you please e-mail me at krlmilton@aol.com? Thanks
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Xion: I realize you are setting us up Jon for your favorite subject, i.e. that the founders were pagan
I don’t believe Jon has ever asserted the founders were pagan. He’s asserted that many of them were not traditional trinitarian Christians.
You may not care about using words correctly, but there is a difference.
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Steve you are, in a sense right. Much of this depends on the meaning of the term “pagan.” If it means something bad, then no the Founders were not pagan. However some folks define pagan as simply “not Christian.” As such the learned non-Christian philosophers from Ancient Greece (Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, etc.) were “pagan.” We could term them “noble pagans.” And I have used that term to describe a worldview in which the Founders were imbibed.
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Chas
My brother has a weed-eater that has two heads. One is a string head but the other has two little solid paddles. I wonder if there is a head for your weed-eater like that- one with solid eaters?
When we finally get started on building our new house, I will get to enjoy the wonders of a chainsaw and weed-eater. Here in the middle of Greater Los Angeles, Eddy the gardener does it all. (Yes, he is legal. Yes, he is all tatted-up. Yes, he used to bang. [Bang as in gang bang.]) I like Eddy. He loves plants.
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Now it would appear that we actually within view of running a possibly fascinating experiment.
I have suggeste din this blog several times that markets are in fact a construct of government,
We have the potential for the following test:
1) right now the mortgage security market is effectively grid locked, and in the process the overall credit markets appear to be negatively impacted
2) the Federal government appears to be about to effectively nationalize perhaps 50% of the U.S. mortgage security market
If the mortgage security market begins to unjam after the Federal takeover, then it would appear that we have a nice demonstration of the Federal governments ability to create markets.
If the mortgage security market doesn’t unjam, then we are facing a very severe economic crisis.
I suggest that everybody should cross their fingers hoping that the Federal goivernment can indeed create markets.
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Musing,
The problem is the creation of Fannie and Freddie to begin with which was one big non-marketed entity.
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CoyoteBlue, I was referecing the black Dallas city councilman who declared a few weeks back that “black hole” is a racist term. Google “john wiley price black hole” to read about it.
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FYI, if anyone has anything to ask me or say to me, you should do it today. I think I’m going to retire from WoW after tonight.
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Jon Rowe post 30,
I am happy to agree with the essence of your suggestion.
But that would appear to start the long conversation which I referred to in post 22.
The short version is we are here now, and what will be required to work our way out of it?
I suggest that as presently structure the present amdinistrations approach is to demonstrate that the Federal government can indeed create a market for mortgage backed securities again.
If they succeed, the economy gets out of its present problems AND we demonstrate that the federal government can create markets.
If it fails, it is going ot be a very long cold winter.
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Night Train, I would hate to see you go. I don’t often agree with you, but I enjoy your comments.
Michelle: I tried to e-mail you at the link, but got a pop 3 msg saynig the SMTP wasn’t found. I’ll be out a while, will try later.
I’m at cwshull@bellsouth.net
Anyone sending me an e-mail should make clear in the subject line who you are. I sometimes delete unfamiliar messages without opening them.
I’ve probably missed winning several million dollars that way, and missed connections with multitudes of beautiful young women who want to meet me.
Such is life.
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Thanks, Chas. I’ll miss a lot of the regulars, too, including you. Others…not so much.
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Night
LOL. In the words of bugs bunny (for the city councilman): What a maroon! What an im-be-silly!
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LOL. He’s an idiot, alright. Plus, it wasn’t just him. There was a black judge for crying out loud who agreed with him.
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Musing:n And as we saw during the Bush years, cutting taxes will not improve our economy.
Actually, eight-miilion new jobs were created after the Bush tax cuts were passed between May 2003 through 2007. Despite all the talk of the present “recession” the last quarter GDP increase came in at 3.3% per annum. The 6.1% unemployment rate is far lower than any of the European nanny states and just slightly higher than the 5.5% rate when Clinton ran in 1996.
The housing and credit crisises were caused mainly by Greenspan’s too easy money policy along with both the Fed and Congress’s regulation of the housing credit markets. On Fred and Fan, Congress has been overly influenced by the very expensive effective lobbying efforts of those organizations. Barney Frank can be said to be a flack for these outfits. I’m hoping that Paulson will fire the present top management of Fred and Fan and make the share holders of these entities pay a heavy price for the outfits’ unwise lending policy. The Wall Street Journal and John McCain have for years been critical of Fan and Freds cozy relation with Congress including both Republicans and Democrats
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The other day I said that if the Enquirer rumors about Palin having an affair turn out to be true, it’s probably too late for McCain to dump her from the ticket. The only way he would do that is if it turned out she’d done something really bad, like use the N word.
Well, this website quotes a waitress who claims that Governor Palin referred to Obama as “Sambo” in her restaurant.
http://snipurl.com/3nnpv
So Sambo beat the b*tch!”
This is how Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin described Barack Obama’s win over Hillary Clinton to political colleagues in a restaurant a few days after Obama locked up the Democratic Party presidential nomination.
According to Lucille, the waitress serving her table at the time and who asked that her last name not be used, Gov. Palin was eating lunch with five or six people when the subject of the Democrat’s primary battle came up. The governor, seemingly not caring that people at nearby tables would likely hear her, uttered the slur and then laughed loudly as her meal mates joined in appreciatively.
“It was kind of disgusting,” Lucille, who is part Aboriginal, said in a phone interview after admitting that she is frightened of being discovered telling folks in the “lower 48” about life near the North Pole.
Then, almost with a sigh, she added, “But that’s just Alaska.”
Racial and ethnic slurs may be “just Alaska” and, clearly, they are common, everyday chatter for Palin.
Besides insulting Obama with a Step-N’-Fetch-It, “darkie musical” swipe, people who know her say she refers regularly to Alaska’s Aboriginal people as “Arctic Arabs” – how efficient, lumping two apparently undesirable groups into one ugly description – as well as the more colourful “mukluks” along with the totally unimaginative “f**king Eskimo’s,” according to a number of Alaskans and Wasillians interviewed for this article.
This sounds extremely fishy to me. I can’t buy the idea that a sitting governor in this day and age would use that kind of language in public.
To me it comes off as a desperate hatchet job. But I could be wrong.
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Okay friends,
If you don’t wish to talk about the theological details of the FF’s religion, how about their sex lives? In particular the sex life of my favorite Founder Gouverneur Morris. From a recent paper given at the latest APSA Convention:
There is another factor separating Morris from Christianity, or at least highly inconsistent with Christian faith – Morris’s immoral conduct. As to reputation, when he was nominated to be minister to France, Roger Sherman said of Morris that “with regard to moral character I consider him an irreligious and profane man.” James Monroe said: “Upon the grounds of character he was twice refused as a member of the Treasury Board.” Though he publicly defended his appointment of Morris, George Washington wrote to Morris about his “imprudence of conversation and conduct” and asked him to display “more caution and prudence” and “more circumspection.” A few years later, Monroe referred to Morris as “a man without morality.” Of course, this could have simply been a matter of political partisanship or personality conflict, but, in Morris’s case, the reputation was well-earned. Morris once threatened to kill a man if he spoke disrespectfully of him, and he frequently got “very drunk” while in France. His most conspicuous moral problems concerned women, however.
Morris had numerous illicit affairs with married and unmarried women and, by his own admission, was constantly trying to initate new ones. One of his earliest dalliances may have cost him one of his legs. One account of the loss of the leg, which is reported as fact by most biographers, is that it happened as a result of a cart accident. There is a good chance that this was merely a cover story, however. There is reason to believe that Morris lost his leg jumping from a window to escape a jealous husband. John Jay joked about it in a letter of consolation to Morris and Lord Palmerston testified that Morris told him the whole story at breakfast a decade later. There is also circumstantial evidence surrounding the woman involved which lends credence. Morris denied the story in a letter to Jay, but not very convincingly. If true, the unfortunate event did not dissuade Morris from similar activity in the future. In fact, he used the curiosity afforded by his one-legged status to attract and seduce other women.
Morris’s diary entries during his time in France are filled with sexual escapades. He had an ongoing affair with Madame de Flahaut for more than three years. She and Morris were eventually so “wanton and flagrant” that they engaged in intercourse “in the passage … at the harpsichord … downstairs … the doors are all open,” and in a coach with the coachman staring straight ahead. They became so shameless that they engaged in intercourse inside a convent and even tried to conceive a child while she denied her husband conjugal rights. Morris’s diary contains at least eighteen references to their sexual liaisons, but Morris claimed that they had made love “several hundred” times. In addition to Madame de Flahaut, Morris reported having affairs with Madame Simon, an unnamed “damsel,” Madame de Lita, Madame de Crayen, Miss Matthiesen and her “young sister,” Miss Gehrt, and Mrs. Perez Morton. According to the diary entries, he tried to seduce – or thought of doing so – Madame de Flahaut’s niece, Lady Webster, the “daughter of a Frenchman,” Madame Foucault, the daughter of his landlord, Madame de Nadaillac, Madame de Fontana, and even Dolley Madison! Everyone except Jesus sins, but the extent, duration, and brazenness of Morris’s immoral conduct must call into serious question the idea that he was a Christian. Jesus said that a tree is known by its fruit.
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TMI, Jon, TMI.
(But not bad for a one-legged dude, I must say.)
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#39… I SERIOUSLY don’t think that most people talk like this, at least not in my world (a reference to my circle of friends, colleagues, and acquaintances, not this piece of dirt we live on) anymore. I have no choice but to dismiss this article at this point. People have to dismiss “facts” from sources which cannot be verified, located or cross examined (a no so thinly veiled reference to the bible).
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Expect to see “Lucille” interviewed everywhere, with prolonged segments on Oprah and The View.
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NT I agree it comes off as a hatchet job. It’s very hard to believe she would use such language in describing her husband’s relatives. Very hard to believe. I pray her family’s skin is as thick as hers and that they survive the onslaught as an intact family.
Have a great hiatus. I look forward to your return.
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Yeah, Scott, I’m not buying it. IMO, there are plenty of people who talk like this, but not in public settings. And the idea that a sitting governor would talk that way in public is very hard to credit. Politicians walk on eggshells constantly worrying about saying anything that can possibly be taken the wrong way. The idea that one would be casually tossing out racial slurs in a restaurant beggars belief. Plus, the whole set up sounds phony. An anonymous waitress interviewed over the phone? Come on.
I ain’t buyin’ it.
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Peter Leavitt post 38,
so the short story is that the administration has placed its oratory on the tax cuts to stimulate the economy. Observationally, the economy is not in good shape. Ergo, we can say that tax cuts did not improve the economy of the last 7 years or so.
Now you wouldappear to be arguing to discuss the long version of this story. Among other points which will have to be addressed is whether the economy would have been worse without the tax cuts, as well as considering the complex interrelationships between the deficit, the credit market and the economy, just for starters.
I am happy to go here if you like, and it would appear that since you have claimed to be in investments you would probably hold an advantage over me in the discussion.
However, if we are going to have the discussion, it needs to be fact based with supporting evidence with references. If you are unwilling to pursue the argument in this manner, I suggest it is because you now the evidence is against you.
So, first question, are you truly interested in a serious discussion? With facts and references?
Second question: are you seriously going to start your supporting argument for the positive impact of the tax breaks based on the jobs situation?
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Thanks, AKMOM. Hopefully, I won’t be returning, but it’s nice to know that some people are hoping I do!
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Musing said: And as we saw during the Bush years, cutting taxes will not improve our economy.
If all we do is cut taxes, but keep on spending (or increase it, as has happened), then you are correct. As we saw in the Reagan years, cutting taxes and decreasing spending caused the boom of the 80s and 90s. I read an article in Investors Business Daily that says the economy is actually better now than in the Clinton years, called The Pie Got Bigger. I sent the link to the WMB editors, but I guess it was not something they wanted to post. Anyway, read it and see what you think.
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Wow, great article with facts to back it up, Peter. Thanks for sharing!
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I think Night Train may have come up with the solution to the whole smear campaign problem. Throw out a bunch of rumors that are so silly and outrageous that no one will believe any of them anymore.
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Peter L post 48,
I agree with your first point: we can not just cut taxes.
I am unsure I agree with your second point. We are beginning the long version of the argument here but I suggest:
1) the boom of the 80s was heavily reliant on the end of the cold war AND the Savings and Loan debacle
2) the boom of the 90s was fueled by the internet boom of which part was bubble and part substance
One can say that the economy is better now than in the Clinton years. The unemployment rate, the jobs growth, the credit markets, the investment markets and our trade situation would suggest otherwise.
One can say anything one wants.
It is more difficult to build one’s arguments with facts and data.
We can do the facts and data approach if you like.
The simple view of the facts and data would not seem to support your or the Investors Business Daily argument.
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Dems trash U.S. flags at DNC convention
McCain scoops up garbage to recycle Stars and Stripes
September 06, 2008
1:37 pm Eastern
By Drew Zahn
Following their national convention in Denver last week, Democratic organizers heaped up thousands of unused U.S. flags and threw them away, but the McCain campaign has since salvaged the Star-Spangled Banners and intends to use them at a rally in Colorado Springs.
U.S. flags TRASHED at DNC convention
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Reat the rest of the article above if you have time.
I’m shocked that the DNC would do such a thing.
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Night Train – It’s been nice knowin’ ya. I didn’t agree with a lot of your comments, but you were interesting. And sometimes funny. Maybe you can check in now & then.
Be careful of that gambling – that can be more addictive than blogging! (And worse for your bank account.)
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I”m only shocked that you find that sort of thing so shocking, Victoria. Sad, for sure, but certainly not so surprising for this bunch. Those flags were simply props, sort of like the styrofoam Greek pillars that have now been returned to Hollywood.
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Does anyone have any experience with the Rosetta Stone system of learning a foreign language? I’ve been reading & hearing lots of ads for it which sound good – but of course they sound good since they’re trying to sell it.
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Thanks, Karen O. I’ll try to keep a handle on the poker. It is very addicting, but it pays a whole lot better than arguing on blogs!
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Outkast – I know what you say to be true, but when it happens it still has ’shock’ value –
There are men and women in the military, who will be very saddened when they hear about this, coming from the country their serving, the one they love -
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NT: As I mentioned to you before, I’ve really appreciated your confrontational style (though it was sometimes lacking in sensitivity), the way you sought to hold people accountable to what they said, and your great sense of humor.
I don’t know whatever painful experience(es) you had with the Church, but I pray that God will soften your heart so that you will someday be once again receptive to spiritual things.
Thanks so much for adding ‘pizazz’ to the blog.
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It is highly unlikely that Sara Palin would be using racial slurs against Eskimos since she is married to a man and mother of children with Eskimo heritage.
It was government regulations that browbeat lenders into offering loans to poor credit risks.
“the boom of the 80s was heavily reliant on the end of the cold war…”
The Berlin Wall fell in 1989, Musing. The final events of the eighties and principally the pressure put by Reagan, Thatcher, and Pope John Paul II against the Soviet Union represent the final intense push that brought the Cold War to a successful conclusion for the Western democracies. Although Government tax revenue increased sharply as a result of Reagan cutting the tax rates, Government expenditures remained high, primarily due to increased military spending. It was Clinton in the nineties that benefited from the “Peace Dividend.” These are some of the hard data and facts that can help you build better arguments than you were making.
Jon, America is indeed a “Christian Nation.” Not because its political leaders were completely orthodox in every writing and utterance and were regarded as such by their friends and enemies both. It took hundreds of years of scaling the slippery slopes of ecclesiastical and theological arguments to plant the flag of credal formulation regarding the nature of the Trinity and the divine nature of Christ. Even trained and nuanced theologians can have words wrested out of context to provide unbalanced ammunition for charges of heresy. Political leaders and founding fathers can stumble as ignorantly when they venture into theological discussions as Nick Peters does when he address Israel and Iraq and remain Christian just as Nick remains an American patriot.
America is a Christian nation not because all its early leaders were convincingly orthodox, but because its underlying assumptions about human nature, its cultural customs, mores, moral understandings, institutions and informal associations are profoundly Christian and America would be unintelligible and impossible without the advancement of Western European civilization brought about by Christian influence.
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Outkast –
Although there are people in this country who would throw a flag on the floor, or even toss them away at the DEM convention, there are many Democrats who wouldn’t think of doing this. I don’t think we can throw the whole DEM party in this disgusting group.
There are men and women in the military who are Democrats, I don’t believe for a moment they would have thrown a flag on the floor, as trash.
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Night Train,
I join others here, hoping that you might return. We don’t always agree, OR we rarely agree, but I still hate to see you leave.
The experience you had with church is troubling. I hope and pray that you will search out the truth in God’s Word with a prayer in your heart to understand. God loves you Night Train
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Another interesting article about Barack Obama’s past.
http://ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=305508174916939
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Ken writes: “It was government regulations that browbeat lenders into offering loans to poor credit risks.”
Not exactly. I worked at a bank and they didn’t write bad loans, they turned people down, because they had a duty to their investors, shareholders. The mortgage companies had different standards and different regulations. Normal underwriters, decent underwriters, do not write loans without verifying income just to make a buck. The government didn’t exactly hold a gun to their heads. They wanted to do it.
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Night Train, I will be sorry to see you go, too. I had hoped to go through the election with you and was distressed when you left the last time. I wish you well, and if you have a mind to, drop in now and again and let us have it. Fare well.
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John Bush said, “You could argue that Americans overall are better off, because we have had a pretty good prosperous time, with low unemployment and low inflation and a lot of good things have happened.”
Recession fears reignite as unemployment rate hits 6.1 percent
and
More than 4 million American homeowners with a mortgage, a record 9 percent, were either behind on their payments or in foreclosure at the end of June, as damage from the housing crisis worsened, the Mortgage Bankers Association said Friday.
McCain also said, “The issue
of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should,” McCain said. “I’ve got Greenspan’s book.”
Someone should encourage McCain to start reading it!
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NT-
We’ll miss your well informed posts around here. Goo dluck on the poker!
Stop by now and then and drop a zinger for the twins
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NT, just remember what I told you in the other thread about computer games. They cheat. Don’t hock your house for the “big killing” they may be setting you up for.
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Jon Rowe-
We missed you this past week. I’ve been wanting to hear your thoughts on Sarah Palin’s odd response to this question?
11. Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?
PALIN: “Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, it’s good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.”
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GL,
Good questions. Re #1, there is a tension in Founding thought. On the one hand they believed in liberty & equality for all religious beliefs (including atheism and polytheism). On the other hand, invoked a generically defined God (who may or may not have been the biblical God) in their public supplications. My own personal belief is that “under God” is NOT UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Yet, as a policy I would get rid of it because it is disrespectful towards atheists.
#2, many of my blog friends have taken her to task over her ignorance. Under God was not added to the pledge until the mid 20th Century. And the pledge itself was a creation of the 19th Century.
Moreover, if one is an orthodox Christian, should you even be in favor of the pledge at all? Isn’t the pledge a form of Idolatry?
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Excellent points Jon. Thank you. I find it alarming that someone with such an obvious lack of knowledge about basic American history could slip through the cracks and be named VP on a presidential ticket, but this is no longer the Republican party I grew up with.
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NT: As I mentioned to you before, I’ve really appreciated your confrontational style (though it was sometimes lacking in sensitivity), the way you sought to hold people accountable to what they said, and your great sense of humor.
I don’t know whatever painful experience(es) you had with the Church, but I pray that God will soften your heart so that you will someday be once again receptive to spiritual things.
Thanks so much for adding ‘pizazz’ to the blog.
Thanks, Tychicus. Glad I could liven things up a bit.
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Karen O #56- The Rosetta Stone is considered one of the best programs there is. I was trained for teaching students how to use it when I was an ESL teacher for adults. I thought it was almost as good as a class. Of course, it is rather expensive, but you get your money’s worth.
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Night Train,
I join others here, hoping that you might return. We don’t always agree, OR we rarely agree, but I still hate to see you leave.
The experience you had with church is troubling. I hope and pray that you will search out the truth in God’s Word with a prayer in your heart to understand. God loves you Night Train
I’m not sure what I said that led you and others to believe that I had some bad experiences with Christians. I didn’t. Jesus may have let me down, and I no longer believe, but I don’t blame Christians for that.
Anyway, Victoria, believe it or not, you’re one of my WoW FAVORITES
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Night Train, I will be sorry to see you go, too. I had hoped to go through the election with you and was distressed when you left the last time. I wish you well, and if you have a mind to, drop in now and again and let us have it. Fare well.
Thanks, NJL. I was going to hang around, but now that all the conservative Christians have gone all feminazi on me with this Palin thing, I’m feeling pretty disoriented.
Take care!
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NT-
We’ll miss your well informed posts around here. Goo dluck on the poker!
Stop by now and then and drop a zinger for the twins
Thanks, Godlumps. I can always use more luck at the poker tables; Jesus doesn’t seem real inclined to help me out when the chips are down.
I certainly will miss interacting with the twins. I’ll probably go through withdrawal.
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Night Train, you can’t leave with a statement like “Jesus may have let me down” without knowing that we will pray for you.
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Outkast, I know we’ve had our disagreements in the past, but I just want to say how much you’ll miss me when when I leave.
Also, I’d just like to say that if WoW were a weekly TV series, your lines would be “De plane boss, de plane!”
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Thanks, NJL, but don’t go to any trouble on account of me. Everything’s copacetic on my end.
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Peter L – Thanks for your input. I think that’s the route we’re going to go. Daughter wants to learn Japanese!
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Rowe: Isn’t the pledge a form of Idolatry?
One nation under God is hardly a form of idolatry. Virtually all of the founders felt the nation to be under the providence of God. If the dollar bill can say In God We Trust, then a pledge that refers to God is hardly idolatry. Sarah Palin is exactly right that the American founders, including the Deists and Unitarians, believed that America was under the providence of God.
One ought not confuse a tolerance for the very few Americans then and now involved in atheism and polytheism and the many devout Americans who believe their country to be under the providence of God.
Sarah Palin in fact represents the many Americans who are fed up with the cynical and skeptical views of those who would excise under God from the Pledge.
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We’re not all feminazi!
Okay, I surprised myself a bit! I’m sure I’ll revert in the next 60 days or so. As noted, this is a difficult election year with a lot at stake.
I just read your sentence “Jesus doesn’t seem real inclined to help me out when the chips are down” and believe me, I know how that feels. Stuff like that has been happening to me for the past 18 months, and I don’t know the answer for myself either. Victoria posted some verses last week from Phillipians which hit home with me, and I know she made good on saying prayers. Please know that we’ll be praying for you, too. You always have a home here.
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NJL, that was just a play on words about poker. In life, I’m having a good run right now. A lot of times when playing poker online, and a miracle card on the river pulls a guy’s fat from the fire, they’ll often type in “Thank you Jesus!”, but I don’t really think they mean it.
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The whole “black whole” flap was believable given what I know about John Wiley Price. John Wiley Price has had some sort of paid local govt salary in Dallas County Texas for as long as I recall. He is a dime-store Je$$e Jackson in terms of being a race hustler like Sharpton. I recall another episode where a DC govt official used the term “niggardly” which as was later revealed derived from a Norwegian term, nygard. Nygard meant to be stingy and tightfisted with money. (Presumably something taxpayers want in any govt official). But the hapless DC bureaucrat who for the record was a black guy still got fired. I had to laugh but at the same time niggardly is a term no one uses these days for apparent reasons.
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But thanks for your concern! I appreciate it.
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Actually Sawgunner, he was a gay white man, not a black guy.
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# 48 As we saw in the Reagan years, cutting taxes and decreasing spending caused the boom of the 80s and 90s.
There was a boom in the 1980s??
90s = tech boom
If I decided to cut back on work and reduce my income by half but only reduced my spending by one quarter then most people would rightly question my household economics and suggest I get more work. Reagan essentially did the same thing yet failed to increase his income.
#81
One nation under God is hardly a form of idolatry. Virtually all of the founders felt the nation to be under the providence of God. If the dollar bill can say In God We Trust, then a pledge that refers to God is hardly idolatry. Sarah Palin is exactly right that the American founders, including the Deists and Unitarians, believed that America was under the providence of God.
idolatry no, flippant yes. Etching the words in God We Trust on the very thing the Bible tells us is the root of all evil (Mamon – money) is either blasphemous or highly ironic depending on your level of detachment.
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Night Train – 74
Well my friend, you brought tears to my eyes – I usually can pound out a response on my keyboard, but I’m having problems right this moment –
God hasn’t let you down NT, you might not understand all the circumstances, (I’ve been there) the ‘whys’ and ‘how come’ – I don’t ask those questions anymore (much) there’s a reason, I just have to be patient – I am praying for you, and I can see from many of the responses, so are others.
You will be missed –
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“I’d just like to say that if WoW were a weekly TV series, your lines would be “De plane boss, de plane!””
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Palin also has an interesting response to question 12 from the Eagles Forum.
12. In relationship to families, what are your top three priorities if elected governor?
PALIN: “Preserving the definition of “marriage” as defined in our constitution.”
My question: WHERE the heck does the Constitution define marriage??
I suspect Palin is as clueless about the Constitution as she is American History.
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Stubob: So it is Saturday.
But it is not Truman.
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I found an interesting piece on the Sarah Palin rumors. Charles Martin has established a clearinghouse for all the existing rumors about Sarah Palin. I’ll give you a few, and then you can read the rest for yourself.
From the link below;
3. Yes, she did push for and approve the Wasilla Sports Center. Yes, it did cost a lot of money. (People keep saying $20 million, that article says $14.5 million, but then they also added a $1.2 million dollar food service/kitchen piece. This year, since Palin was out of office as Mayor.) Yes, the city went into debt to do it (how did you buy your house, bunkie?) and raised the city sales tax from 2 percent to 2.5 percent to pay for it. Yes, the city is paying it off early.
9. No she wasn’t a member of the (wild-eyed libertarian) Alaska independence Party, although her husband once was
10. No, neither the (Canadian) National Post, nor Marc Armbinder at the Atlantic have troubled themselves to issue a correction. Yes, the New York Times did finally correct their story of September 1 — on September 5. This was after Elizabeth Bumiller was quoted by Howard Kurtz as saying she was “completely confident about the story.” Yes, that was after the New York Times’s source retracted the story. Yes, this should embarrass the Times, Bumiller, and Howard Kurtz. No, there have been no signs of embarrassment.
13. No, she’s doesn’t believe that the Iraq War was directed by God. Yes, she did pray that proceeding with the war was God’s will. (Ever hear the phrase “Not my will, but Thine, be done”?)
16. No, so far there’s no confirmation she had an affair while she was married, and they’ve denied it pretty strongly. No, she wouldn’t be the first Christian woman who got a little on the side, if it were true.
17. No, she wasn’t named as a co-respondent in a divorce; there’s no evidence she had an affair with her husbands’ business partner. The partner tried to have his divorce records sealed because he was being harrassed by journalists who used them to get his phone number.
27. No, she didn’t cut funding for unwed mothers; yes, she did increase it by “only” 354 percent instead of 454 percent, as part of a multi-year capital expenditures program. No, the Washington Post doesn’t appear to have corrected their story. Even after this was pointed out in the comments on the story.
28. No, she didn’t cut special needs student funding; yes, she did raise it by “only” 175 percent.
30. yes, she did ask the librarian if some books could be withdrawn because of being offensive; no, they couldn’t; yes she did threaten to fire the librarian a month later; no, that wasn’t over the books thing but instead over administrative issues; no, the librarian wasn’t fired either; yes, the librarian was a big supporter of one of her political opponents; yes, the librarian was also the girlfriend of the Chief of police mentioned above; no, this is not the first time in the history of civilization that someone has been threatened with being fired over a political dispute
31. No the list of books she wanted to ban that’s being passed around isn’t real; among other things, it includes a number of books published after her time in office there.
40. No, she doesn’t believe in “abstinence only” education. Yes, she thinks abstinence is an effective way of preventing pregnancy. Duh. Yes, she believes kids should learn about condom use in schools.
You can read the rest here, if you’re so inclined.
http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/06/palin-rumors/
Looks like Lumpy has some retracting to do, but I won’t hold my breath.
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Peter L post 48,
so look at your graph in your own reference: it has taken the entire time from 2001 2006 for incomes to recover from their decline and they are about equal to the 2000 incomes. I find this a very quaint model for arguing an improvment.
Excellent data. I appreciate your proving my point.
As I was posting for Peter leavitt I was actually looking at the unemployment rate since 2000 whcih is also discussed in:
Boston Globe on unemployment
and noted that with the enacting of the Bush tax cuts, it looks like the unemployment rate went up through 2004, with an bit of an improvment and now a sharp increase. If Peter Leavitt is going to argue for job growth from the tax cuts, then I suggest that this data seriously deflates his aergument.
I am working on the total nuumber of jobs, but it has already been reported but it has already been reported that the number of jobs has been decreasing recently.
I can also post the Dow Jones:
Decade behavior of the Dow Jones
and set the time period for one decade, and it shows a similar behavior of a dip as Bush becomes president, followed by a slow recorvery, this time with nominal uninflation adjusted growth and then falling back to pre-Bush levels.
In short, the statistics do not appear to support the model of a good economy under George Bush.
So the quesitons back would seem to be:
1) what is wrong with my data?
2) what data am I missing?
I am curious if there is data to support an alternative argument.
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Real AJ, did you see the list? I have never read Cujo, but isn’t that a Stephen King story about a really mean dog? Why would that and Carrie have made the list?
Lumpy, did you check Alaska’s Constitution?
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AJ- “No she wasn’t a member of the (wild-eyed libertarian) Alaska independence Party, although her husband once was”
True, but here’s a little more of the story:
The Palins attended the party’s convention in their hometown, Wasilla, in 1994, according to party officials, where the party called for a revote on statehood and a draft constitution for an independent Republic of Alaska. Mr. Palin joined the party.
Ms. Palin remained a Republican and never joined the Alaskan Independence Party, but returned to its convention in 2006 to speak as candidate for governor. After she had been elected, she recorded a video greeting that was played at the party convention this year. “Good luck on a successful and inspiring convention,” she said. “Keep up the good work, and God bless you.”
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Palin: Iraq war ‘a task that is from God’
By GENE JOHNSON – 2 days ago
ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) — Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin told ministry students at her former church that the United States sent troops to fight in the Iraq war on a “task that is from God.”
“Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God,” she said.
“God’s will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that,” she said.
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Victoria and others,
The flag story was fake. It was written by the same FOX reporter who in 2004 wrote up fake Kerry quotes as a “joke” which appeared on Fox. Its no surprise then that FOX is responsible for the flag story
http://tinyurl.com/6zhyb9
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/214283.php
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From Sarah Palin’s Eagle Forum Questionnaire in 2006.
Question No. 3: “Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?”
Palin: “Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.”
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Palin DID cut funding for pregnant teen housing.
See here initials and lines drawn through “Covenant House” here.
Now go here to see what Covenant House Alaska does.
Part of what Covenant House does is this program they call Passage House:
Passage House is a transitional living program located in a residential neighborhood on the eastside of town. This program provides young mothers a place to live with their babies for up to eighteen months while they gain the necessary skills and resources to change their lives. We work with parenting teens to help them become productive, successful, independent adults who create and provide a stable environment for themselves and their families. Designed to mirror the “real world.” Our goal is to assist young mothers in developing skills such as healthy parenting, money management, priority setting, housing acquisition and social skills development.
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She doesn’t support explicit sex-ed Lumpy. She believes abstinence should be included. And she supports teaching about condom usage.
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-sexed6-2008sep06,0,3119305.story
From the link;
“Palin’s statements date to her 2006 gubernatorial run. In July of that year, she completed a candidate questionnaire that asked, would she support funding for abstinence-until-marriage programs instead of “explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?”
Palin wrote, “Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.”
But in August of that year, Palin was asked during a KTOO radio debate if “explicit” programs include those that discuss condoms. Palin said no and called discussions of condoms “relatively benign.”
“Explicit means explicit,” she said. “No, I’m pro-contraception, and I think kids who may not hear about it at home should hear about it in other avenues. So I am not anti-contraception. But, yeah, abstinence is another alternative that should be discussed with kids. I don’t have a problem with that. That doesn’t scare me, so it’s something I would support also.”
She clarified her remarks. Try again.
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That’s wonderful news, AJ! You made my day!
Will she succeed in bring the Republican Platform into reality?
I seriously doubt it
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Lumpy,
Wrong, AGAIN!!
http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/09/04/our-operating-budget-was-not-reduced-director-of-teen-center/
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
September 4, 2008
Contact: Deirdre A. Cronin
Executive Director
907-339-4203
“Covenant House Alaska is a multi-service agency serving homeless and runaway youth, including teen mothers. The majority of the agency’s annual operating budget is privately raised, with no more than 10 to 15 percent of funds coming from state grants in any given year. We are grateful for the support we have received from Governor Sarah Palin, the Alaska legislature and our Congressional delegation over the years.
Despite some press reports to the contrary, our operating budget was not reduced. Our $3.9 million appropriation is directed toward a multi-year capital project and it is our understanding that the state simply opted to phase in its support for this project over several years, rather than all at once in the current budget year.”
Covenant House Alaska is Alaska’s largest private non-profit adolescent care agency serving homeless, runaway and at–risk youth between the ages of 13 and 21. With particular expertise in helping some of the most hopeless teens grow into independent, successful and productive adults.
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Maybe you should check out the link in #92 Lumpy. And actually read it this time. It also has links that debunk many of the lies out there. It might help you save what little credibility you have left.
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I don’t blame anyone for taking a break (even a permanent one) from this site. I’ve taken several myself to restore sanity. This is a very insane place, especially without Lynn’s daily guiding hand, and a national election on the horizon. I may take another beak a few days after the election. On the outside chance that Obama wins, I will throw a gigantic party (and oh, what a party it will be!) on here for a few days after Nov. 4th. Then give y’all some time to lick your wounds and weep to Jesus to save you from the Evil Democrats. Heh.
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AJ-
I’ll believe that unsigned letter when it appears on Covenant House website.
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HRW- “The flag story was fake. It was written by the same FOX reporter who in 2004 wrote up fake Kerry quotes as a “joke” which appeared on Fox. Its no surprise then that FOX is responsible for the flag story”
Great scoop debunking the flag myth.
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Spell it right Godlumps!
It’s “Faux” not “Fox”.
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Too Funny!
McCain Campaign now supporting Obama Campaign!
Copyright law may not be on the Wilsons’ side as the song is licensed for public performance under a blanket fee paid by the venue to ASCAP, the firm that collects royalties on behalf of composers and copyright owners.
Despite the Wilson sisters’ objections, one of the song’s co-writers said he was “thrilled” that the song was used.
In an e-mail to Reuters, the band’s former guitarist, Roger Fisher, said it was a win-win situation. Heart gets publicity and royalties, while the Republicans benefit from “the ingenious placement of a kick-ass song,” Fisher said.
But in a subsequent email, Fisher said he strongly endorsed the Democratic ticket, and would donate a portion of royalties he receives from the Republicans’ airing of “Barracuda” to the campaign of Sen. Barack Obama.
“With my contribution to Obama’s campaign, the Republicans are now supporting Obama,” he said.
Fisher and the Wilsons wrote “Barracuda” with drummer Michael DeRosier. It appeared on the group’s second album, “Little Queen” in 1977. The song was inspired by the band’s anger over an obnoxious record label executive.
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FAUX NOISE?
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Lumpy says,
“I’ll believe that unsigned letter when it appears on Covenant House website.”
Now didn’t I tell you to check links, and actually read stuff? C’mon! The link I gave had a nice little opening. It was;
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
September 4, 2008
Contact: Deirdre A. Cronin
Executive Director
907-339-4203
Rather than play ostrich and bury your head and pretend you still doubt the facts. That you need further proof. Well why don’t we try this. First thing Monday morning, we call the office of Deidre A. Cronin, at the number listed above, and ask. There wouldn’t be a phone number if they didn’t want phone calls, right? We can pretend we’re actually real journalists. If they ask what press outfit we’re with, just tell ‘em “World”. It’s probably best to not be more specific than that though, since we don’t actually work for World. Hey if Code Pinker’s can steal press passes and get away with it, to crash the repub convention? Why can’t we??!!.
Seriously though, I’m gonna call. Now will you? Do you really seek to know the truth? Or is your job simply to spam hit pieces on decent people in the hope that something you throw up will stick? We shall see……. But I am gonna call on Monday. I’ll let you know if anyone can tell me anything.
The Yanks are coming on, from Seattle. I don’t like 10:05 starts.
I also don’t like how my team is looking. 
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AJ-
Anyone can type whatever they like. I am curious why it doesn’t appear on the Covenant House website, that I can find. It has to be getting hammered by news orgs these days, and it would be easier to disseminate there, I would think, than to send it to some obscure guy with a blog. No?
Can you link me up with it on McCain’s site?
Or the Coventry House?
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Thanks for trying to set Lumpy straight with actual facts, AJ. Not that the radical Leftists like Lumpy and Anlir and SteveG and Scott give a rip about actual “facts” and “sources” and “links,” but you did try. Kudos for your efforts!
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Well, Random (if you’re checking on here),
I didn’t check the link, but I found your post on #5 pretty funny. If you make one of your “10-a-day” posts amusing like that, you’ll probably get the silver humor medal. Unless, of course, something drastic happens or I change the number of medals awarded to 5 (Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Aluminum, or something like that). Platinum is better than gold even though it might be difficult to tell it apart from silver, but I doubt anyone would like an aluminum medal.
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No Lumpy, I can’t provide you with a link from McCains site. It’s false, he knows it, so rightfully ignores it. I also don’t have one from Covenant House. I do however have some info from a link on the Covenant House website. http://covenanthouseak.org/
Now let me show you how investigative journalism works.
If you click on About CHA you go to a screen with a box in the middle. There are six choices. Click the first one, which says Advocacy. Scroll to the bottom, and you’ll see this;
For more information on advocacy, please contact:
Nicole Thibodeau, Director of Advocacy
(907) 339-4205
Wow this is gettin’ weird!! That guys phone number is only 2 digits off of the one I gave you above, which is;
907-339-4203
Almost like maybe they was in the same building! It’s probably a conspiracy! Scary…
Seriously now, do you not see how easy it is to check stuff out? Sure, sometimes you gotta really look, but sometimes it’s easy. Maybe you’d like to try it before posting. Just looking for little clues that lie around on the web can often give you indications of whether something is true or not, or comes from the source it’s attributed too. Things like phone numbers. By looking at a small detail, which I had to dig a little for, it’s easy to see that the statement above is legit, and came from Covenant House. And for the last lesson in your study of investigative journalism, I will show you, hopefully, on Monday how easy it is to verify whether the quote is accurate. You simply call the people in question and ask!
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Outkast and AJ-
I have legitimate reservations about trusting this letter. I have not said it is fake, but I can’t confirm it is real either.
According to the date it was a Press Release made available on Thursday. Since then, I can only find it on what I think is Joel Mark’s website?, or one he coincidentally has contributed to, and on the guy you link to.
It does not appear on Covenant House Alaska website.
It does not appear on the McCain Campaign website.
It does not appear in any legitimate news story. (Not even FOX News.)
I can’t locate it on the PR Newswire where Press Releases, especially important ones like this, typically appear.
It is also hard to argue with what I see with my own eyes. A scanned budget document with Sarah Palin’s initials on it next to a big X’ed out line item entitled Covenant House.
Keep me posted on what you find, as I will you. If it is false, I will not repeat it. As for me making a retraction, why would I retract something written by news agencies? I am the messenger. Don’t shoot.
And if you are mistaken, and this is a Sarah Fan hoax, I will not hold you personally responsible. That’s the cool thing about the web. We can all do our own searches and share information!
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NJL at #94,
The only reason I can think is because they’re both bloody and violent books. Maybe they thought the bloody prom thing from Carrie, and the rather detailed maulings in Cujo, were a bit much for kids. Depending on the age, I’d have to agree.
And Cujo was the book that first sparked my interest in reading books. I went to my jr year English class, and someone had left a hardback version on my desk. I gave it to the teacher. A week later, she said nobody claimed it, so I could have it. It was the very first Stephen King book I read. I discovered that reading was OK, when you read what YOU wanted, and not some assigned reading. After that my English teacher let me read whatever I wanted in class, as long as my work was done first. Looking back, I think the old bird set me up, and played me like a fiddle. She got me to love something I’d insisted wasn’t my thing.
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#113
Rio, as you are presenting this as something like the Olympics, where no one is admitted to competition who does not cheat, I feel completely entitled to cheat by breaking my own 10 posts a day rule. Especially as I have restrained myself from making at least 40 wisecracks today.
Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Aluminum, or something like that).
First, I will have to bite any medal I get to see if it is genuine. Although I seldom watch television, I did see some of the Chinese Olympics closing ceremonies and as the athletes paraded in I saw one medal winner (I forget from what country) ostentatiously pretending to bite her medal. She presented it as a joke, but sometimes people are most truthful when they kid.
Second, what I am really looking for is copper. Copper has become quite valuable and people are stealing it right and left. Also, we have a large garden on our island and slugs are eating half our food. Copper repels slugs, but copper wire is now way too expensive. Copper medal please.
This all assumes that the collider doesn’t destroy the earth in the meantime. That would be taking a practical joke too far, indeed. Only God gets to do that. His best joke by far, so far, is the creation of the human race. Ostriches, penguins, and platypuses are all funny, but we take the cake, not to mention the medal.
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AJ- “Looking back, I think the old bird set me up, and played me like a fiddle.”
“After the legislature passed a spending bill in April, Palin went through the measure reducing and eliminating funds for programs she opposed. Inking her initials on the legislation — “SP” — Palin reduced funding for Covenant House Alaska by more than 20 percent, cutting funds from $5 million to $3.9 million. Covenant House is a mix of programs and shelters for troubled youths, including Passage House, which is a transitional home for teenage mothers.
Palin DID eliminate $1,100,000.00 in funds approved by the Alaska legislature.
The letter, not found in any news publications, states: “Despite some press reports to the contrary, our operating budget was not reduced.”
Can anyone provide a “news report” that says the “operating budget” was reduced? No. That was not what was reported. What was reported was:Palin reduced funding for Covenant House Alaska by more than 20 percent, cutting funds from $5 million to $3.9 million.
True.
The letter, which I’m guessing may be real, does not contradict the factual claim made by the WaPost, and supported by scans of the budget vetoed and initialed by Palin. It refutes an imaginary statement.
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I referenced the entire opening monologue on an other thread but here’s the condensed version where Stewart compares McCain’s 2008 speech to Bush’s 2000 speech.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxGcn7lmTWY
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Also, keep in mind the Director of Covenant House knows she will have to deal with The Barracuda, who has shown she will find a way to fire people who cross her. Ms. Cronin may feel compelled to issue this statement, if it’s real, in case The Barracuda loses in November and comes back and oversees Covenant House funding in the future. Smart lady! I wouldn’t blame her a bit.
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Sarah Palin has refused now for a week to answer questions from the press. The McCain/Palin campaign now says it will be at least 2 more weeks. Simply astounding! This person wants to be Vice President of the United States, yet she’s refusing to answer even one question. The American people know almost nothing about her, other than she’s a fundamentalist Christian with some ethical and family issues.
Can you imagine the outrage if Joe Biden announced that he would not answer a single question from the press for 3 weeks?
If she’s not prepared to answer questions, the McCain/Palin campaign should be honest with the American people. It’s the least they can do.
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HRW- 119
The Republicans should have just played George W. Bush’s speech at the convention and let old John Bush take the night off! It’s the same speech, down to the timing in some cases. Thanks for posting.
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Where HAS Sarah been? Good point Anlir. Why don;t they let her out on her out without a rehearsed speech?
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More info on the flag flap
http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=99204&provider=top
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Thank you HRW-
Shame on John McCain for stealing unused flags and using them for a gimmick. Those who have fought for the flag and our freedom are rightly outraged at his willingness to use the flag for political stunts.
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Now this is faking news. Very funny.
Small town Values at the RNC!
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Anlir,
“The American people know almost nothing about her, other than she’s a fundamentalist Christian with some ethical and family issues.” Good thing you aren’t a journalist, sir! You’ve been corrected on her not being a “fundamentalist Christian.” No ethical issues have been proven (and in today’s poltical climate, if she had any that were likely to stick, she would never have been chosen), and having a teen who has sinned counts as some sort of serious “family issues”? (In what universe?) In other words, the stuff you “know” about her ain’t true.
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HRW: Where does the Bible tell us that money is the root of all evil?
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For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
1 Timothy 6:10
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Money can be evil if not used the way GOD would have us use it. There are many who have been very wealthy who have given much of their wealth to the LORD. One can look at Job – was he not wealthy? of course he was – when he lost all he had the LORD gave him more than he could have imagined –
Who’s tomb was used to bury Jesus Christ, who went to Pilot to beg the body of Jesus? It was Joseph of Arimathea, a very rich man -
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Tychicus
It’s this ‘love’ part of money which people become confused about. Having money isn’t sinful, but the LOVE of MONEY will lead to evil – those who want to ‘catch’ the Believers in a trap bring this passage to discussion – there is NO reason to concern oursleves with wealth, (if we have it) it’s what we do with it, whether or not we are in LOVE with wealth and money, that is the sinful part –
God Bless you
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AJ-
I can’t put this off any longer.
My friend, you are using and affirming Democratic Party talking points, which pre-date the letter to an unknown blogger you supplied.
That I disagree with the Democrats should come as no surprise, as I am a Libertarian who would prefer Bob Barr, but will vote Obama if necessary to keep McCain from continuing Bush’s reckless agenda. That the Democrats are leading the way for you is both entertaining and enlightening.
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Cheryl D post 127,
whether Sarah Palin is a fundamentalist Christian is at root a question of definition, and definnitons in this blog, as I have noted many times, tend to be highly eleastic.
I can make the following comment based on the Pew Surrvey:
http://religions.pewforum.org/reports
if Sarah Palin is not a fundamentalist Christian, then fundamentalist Christians would seem to be perhaps 10% or less of the American population.
This is a classic you can have it one way or another: make your definition restrictive and you will indeed reduce the size of what is already a minority.
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Victoria,
That was the point that I was trying to make to HRW. HRW said this in #87: “Etching the words in God We Trust on the very thing the Bible tells us is the root of all evil (Mamon – money) is either blasphemous or highly ironic depending on your level of detachment.”
We know that it’s the love of money that is the root of all evil. Money in itself is neutral.
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I don’t know if anybody is still reading Whirled Views on Sunday the day of rest and the day for the rest of us to post.
Joel Mark said he liked my posts best when I post serious messages. His statement was commendable as I joke around too much. However, I find it hard to believe his statement. I can only remember one time when he indicated a positive reaction to a message I posted. Nick Peters had posted one if his many odd messages that make him sound like a racist (though he may not actually be a racist, so I wish he would actually communicate with me on the subject), and I made some sort of joke involving a baseball metaphor, and Joel, and others, laughed and applauded.
Joel is probably preaching today, and probably not reading messages. However, if anyone remembers a comment where he took anything I said seriously, I would regard it as a very serious matter indeed.
#4
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Lumpy, if you’re going to talk about Palin attending the Alaska Indepedence party’s convention, you should be willing to discuss Obama sitting at the feet of Alinsky and Ayers and touting a plan, along with Michelle, to have the government take children away from their parents and re-educate them.
She never joined, and heck, I’m even willing to say that I wish the Democrat’s luck. Hope you don’t get it, but it’s no skin off my teeth to be “polite”
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After reading wmb for several years, I have learned to accommodate myself to various of the evangelical Christian obsessions. The most difficult one was homosexuality. The eC attitude about it is not exactly like racism, but it shares many similarities and features. One eC (whom I admire and like quite a bit) emailed me once that she regards homosexuality as a “sin like other sins.” I have decided (in my condescending manner) that I can live with that. The half dozen or so eCs who regularly read my blog display that attitude. Also, I don’t really favor gay marriage–just civil union (though as much an oxymoron as gay marriage, speaking as one who will shortly pass the 43rd year of a barely civil marriage but seldom gay one).
In terms of evolution, I delude myself that I have had a tiny bit of success in getting people to stop using the silly term “Darwinism” as they try to convince everyone that it is a religious belief instead of a scientific theory. However, this is one of those issues that only time will tell. In a hundred years or so, creationism (which has already faded/evolved from “new earth” to “old earth” creationism, and from “no evolution” to “evolution but no evolution of new species”) will fade entirely from the scene except for the few flat earthers.
However, as humans will destroy themselves (or at least destroy civilization) by the end of this century, the point is moot.
I’m not sure what to do about the political discussions. It’s like trying to argue with a bunch of preschoolers about Coke vs. Pepsi, or less filling vs. tastes better in regard to light beer.
The left vs. right discussions have very few intellectual calories, but they sure don’t taste very good, either.
At the moment, I am studying abortion. Eccentric as it may seem, I actually read an entire book now and then. I am just finishing the last chapter of Blood and Soil: A World History of Genocide and Extermination from Sparta to Darfur. It’s over 600 pages of cheerful reading, though I deaden my sensitivities as much as I can (as do most people, I suspect).
Several people indicated they might read it. I hope they do. I think it’s a very provocative and important book. As I indicated, it doesn’t “attack” Christianity any more than it criticizes many major religious and political movements throughout history. Even as we happily breathe and eat and walk our streets in relative safety, yet another genocide is taking place in Darfur. As I mentioned in the most tedious manner I can, there is an excellent survey of the “civilized” world’s inability to prevent the most documented genocide in human history, in a recent New Republic article. I recommend it also, though its not easily available to read on line, so you might have to visit your local public library. (Remember those?)
At the moment I am turning my attention to abortion, another prominent topic at this web site. I think I know where I am going with this, but I will go through the motions of pretending I have an open mind. Nobody is reading this by now, so I will ask again in a shorter message early Monday, but my question is that I would like recommendations in regard to books (not web sites) on abortion.
I noticed that Olafsky, who seems to be a well-regarded person at World magazine has a book out on the history of abortion in America. Do most people here consider this a major and useful book on this topic?
With that in mind, my request would be for suggestions on:
a) the best “anti-abortion” ["pro-life"] book.
b) the best “pro-abortion” ["pro-choice"] book.
c) the best dispassionate, “objective” unemotional and agnostic book on the subject.
Thank you.
#5
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Night Train has left wmb. When I took my six month sabbatical, he used the opportunity of my being gone for a few days to say some condescending words about me behind my back. As I am an inveterate flamer and insulter, I have been insulting him in the open since I came back.
The only thing I will say “behind his back” is that I found Night Train to be one of the most interesting and stimulating participants I encountered on World Mag Blog.
#7
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StuBob at #43: Expect to see “Lucille” interviewed everywhere, with prolonged segments on Oprah and The View.
Right after they play the tape where Michelle Obama uses the term “whitey.”
(For the irony impaired: I don’t especially believe the “Lucille” story either, but anyone who believes that the Obamas are anti-white and cite as evidience that rumored recording that never surfaced has no place to complain.)
(StuBob, I have no idea if you are one of those or not, but my comment is addressed to those who do.)
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Cheryl
Check out the Wasilla Bible Church’s website (Gov. Palin’s church). You can download sermons – - the church is fundamentalist and pentecostal based on what they preach.
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NJL at #94:
I don’t know for a fact, but offhand I’d say that like most Stephen King books, they’re riddled with violence and vulgar language.
In addition, Carrie feaures a primary character (Carrie’s mother) who is portrayed as an insane Christian — she tells Carrie that menstruation is punishment from God for having dirty thoughts, and refers to breasts as “dirtypillows.”
(King is not anti-Christian, and there’s ample proof of that in The Stand where God’s team takes on the Devil’s. But I can see where Christians might be disturbed and offended by the character in Carrie.)
And Cujo is about a good dog who goes bad due to rabies and includes the death of a child, one of the major characters. (They let him live in the movie version, not so in the book). That might be enough to elevate it above his others for special disapproval.
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NJL at #136: Lumpy, if you’re going to talk about Palin attending the Alaska Indepedence party’s convention, you should be willing to discuss Obama sitting at the feet of Alinsky and Ayers and touting a plan, along with Michelle, to have the government take children away from their parents and re-educate them.
There’s no evidence that ever happened. It is part of the paranoid fantasy being built up by Obama’s more rabid and less honest opponents.
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Night Train’s departure leaves only Nick Peters to pick on in terms of the subject of race, though he does have NJLawyer to defend him, so that makes the odds about even.
He’s probably at Mass today, so like my comment about NT, this is a sneaky, behind-the-back attack on my part. Radical Agnostics are terrorists. We sneak up in the early morning, while it’s still dark out here on the left coast, and launch suicide attacks, not with bombs, but with wearisome messages that bore you to death.
My topic today is chocolate. Not just any old chocolate, but WHITE CHOCOLATE. My wife has stopped working for money, but volunteers on Saturday morning at an organic farmers market. Not enough of the food in our garden survives the depredations of the critters for us to pretend to be farmers.
My wife volunteers at the food stand. An excellent cook prepares breakfast and lunches. My wife serves coffee, tea, and hot chocolate. The money from the drinks goes to the organic farmers organization.
My wife also, in a desperate attempt at making a little money, prepares baked goodies which she sells at the food stand.
She pays a cut and keeps the “profit.” My wife, a “liberal” does not understand the free enterprise system. People had to nag her several times until she accepted that she needs to charge a price greater than the cost of her baking materials, a practice she seems to consider wicked and immoral.
Last Saturday, in a desperate attempt at creativity, she decided to create a new biscotti recipe. To begin with, biscotti is an unamerican “food,” the kind of food that Pat Buchanan warned us against.
Now that I think of it, Pat Buchanan, white, Catholic, passionately pro-American and anti-immigrant, must be the presidential candidate favored by Nick Peters.
In fact, perhaps “Nick H. Peters’ is a screen name used by Pat Buchanan to post messages on wmb!
Anyway, my wife decided to vary her biscotti recipe. She decided to use WHITE CHOCOLATE.
[Pregnant silence while I wait for Nick/Pat to applaud.]
“On your way home, please pick up some Ghirardelli WHITE CHOCOLATE chips,” my wife instructed. I picked them up as instructed. (Following spousal instructions is one of the ways one stays married for 43 years.)
As my wife prepared her biscotti, I heard very bad words. (My wife is a very moral person, but as she is not a religious believer, she curses like a fish wife when irritated.)
“What’s the matter,” I asked in fear and trembling.
“The white chocolate did not melt,” she said with cold venom. When she examined the Ghirardelli package, she discovered that the “white chocolate” contains no cocoa. (Rather like that “oreo” that is all white filling, Obama.) There is no chocolate in Ghiradelli’s “white chocolate.” The ingredients, in fact, are very bad for you and would cause a great scandal if my wife served them at the organic farmers market.
I looked at the Ghrardelli web site:
http://www.ghirardelli.com/
Ghirardelli Classic White Chips start with ingredients like whole milk powder and vanilla. These ingredients are blended together to create Ghirardelli’s rich, creamy signature taste in these velvety smooth white baking chips.
Scandal! Shock! White sugar passing as chocolate! The plot thickens:
Since 1852, the Ghirardelli Chocolate Company has been located in the San Francisco area.
San Francisco is the heart of the homosexual agenda! Liberal HQ for America! There’s probably a nest of Darwinists there as well.
I want everyone to know that Nick Peters is correct and I owe him an apology.
Also, my wife has ordered me to find some WHITE CHOCOLATE that actually contains cocoa.
In the meantime, NJL, will you represent me in the class action suit I am planning to file against Ghirardelli for defrauding liberal dupes such as my wife?
No, scratch that. That notorious trial lawyer and adulterer John Edwards probably has nothing to do now. I imagine his wife has locked him out of the house. I will ask him to handle my class action law suit for baking malpractice.
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Being late to the fray, and the victim of inadequate education because I did not use computers in grade school, I find myself unable to find the weekly meditation post. Is that somewhere or has it been dropped?
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RN,
I thought EVERYBODY knew that white chocolate wasn’t.
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It still tastes good.
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Random: Also, my wife has ordered me to find some WHITE CHOCOLATE that actually contains cocoa.
I fear you are inevitably going to disappoint. White chocolate, by definition, is not actual chocolate. None of it contains cocoa.
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Rio,
Oh, yeah…especially on pretzels. Or anything else.
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Victoria/Tychicus
I stand corrected, my socialist tendencies overwhelmed my years of catechism classes. “love of money” dilutes my point but does not vanquish it.
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For what its worth here is Larry Flynt’s Top Ten reasons to vote for McCain. I was amused but I don’t share the same sense of humour as others
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUfH03dDVeg
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#2 Musing,
Everything you complain about happened on the Democratic watch after they took over congress two years ago. I don’t believe in coincidence and it is obvious that all of the horrible things that have happened over the last two years have been a direct result of Marxists taking over the last Capitalistic and democratically inspired representative government on the planet.
You are incorrect. The Savings and Loan scandal was much, and I mean much much, worst financially and economically than this one – it is not even close at all. Where do you lefties get you’re weird ideas because they not flow correctly from the facts? Here is how you can check. Find out how many banks failed then and now. All we have now is a lock up in home financing and 2 million Americans who bought homes they could not afford which they will lose to foreclosure – the entire banking indiustry was failing then.
You are correct though. The lefties that control the purse strings of this country and have for the last two years causing havoc where ever they turn, are going to nationalize the home lending industry – just like Hugo Chavez, one of their heroes, nationalized the oil industry in his banana republic. I guess that is what the left wants to do hear too by stealing the oil industries profits and turning the USA into a Marxist banana republic run by their god Obama.
You just cannot trust lefties when it comes to stealing stuff from someone else. They will steal it faster than an llama can spit and then blame you for it. It is best no to hang out with folks that want to steal you blind and then once you are dead broke let their Islamofascist buddies cut your head off.
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#7
I think you also have to blame the lending fiasco on an insufficient regulatory system.
Well, you have think that a socisalist and Marxist would want the government to control and regulate everything like how many lesbians are allowed to work in what jobs, how much money they can make befoe it is consiscated or are allowed to asseble in the same room or anywhere for that matter and all but in this case…..
Do you know what peice of regulatory law by nake was removed, actually repaealed, by a lefty congress, who knows nothing about economices, that allowed the credit crisis in the housing market to happen?
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#13 Random,
NT, you are correct. “Black hole,” is not only a racist term, it is obscene as well.
Read #153. Ther is nothing racist about black holes nor are they obscene but that doesn’t stop you from saying so though does i? Of course not – nothing could do that
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I have to admit that I have had all kinds of line cutters over the years. Both residential and commercial electric and gas ones. They were all absolutely fantastic too. The old way was too hard and that is why humans create new technology – to make our lives less physically and mentally demanding. On the mentally demanding side, they made the rewinding of string cutters so easy even a cave man can do it, blindfolded with two hands tied behind their back while being whipped to death by a Marxist posing as a god.
Since I am looking for a new business to invest in I will teach a line cutting re-stringingg class where you can find out how to restring a line cutter like a pro for less than $500 and that includes a new line cutter and a lifetime supply of string. Watch for it on a TV infomercial. If you send me the money right now, before it is two late, I will double the amount of lifetime string in this offer – if you live twice as long as Chas. For folks older than Chas I will have a truckload of illegal aliens do your trimming for you before they leave the country. How is that for service.
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Llama, I will send you the money just as soon as I collect the 850,000 euros that I’ve just been notified that I won. It may take a couple of days, so wait for it.
I suspect I could find my own illegal alien though.
Klasko, back at #25, Michelle asked us to contact her. I sent an e-mail, but no response. I haven’t heard from her since. Have you?
I will be away most of next week, but will check in briefly Monday morning.
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Tychicus – 134 – You’re right, its the love of money –
Have a wonderful Sunday my friend.
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Musing seems to be on the lefty mantra that they never saw a tax hike they didn’t love (as long as it was on someone else) or a tax cut they didn’t hate (as long as it was for someone else) plus she is talking tall, like Marxists do, on how great the nationalizing of businesses is, in this case the home loan business, like she was Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, Stalin, Mao or some other other Marxist Hero.
Well, I am sure if she know the facts, rather than the false assumptions the whack jobs on the left have brainwashed her with, she would not be so heroically inclined to swill slop.
Lets look at another industry the left would like to nationalize. The oil industry, and lets look at their poster child Exxon. Last quarter, not a year – just 3 months, Exxon made $11.68 Billion in profits (their take home pay) and this was somehow obscene. Well let’s see how obscene it really is.
In that same quarter Exxon paid $32.36 billion in taxes. Yes they paid about 3 times more in taxes than they made in profits. That would be like you making $100,000 a year in income but having to pay $75,000 in taxes and you get to take home $25,000 that your buddies want to steal from you. Well does that sound fair to you? Of course not, but that that isn’t enough taxes for Marxists if they hate you. They want to confiscate Exxon’s meager profits too. They want to steal $50 billion from Exxon and leave them nothing – leave them flat broke. This is what they want to do to all the rich people claiming that they do not pay their fair share. But, that isn’t all. What happens to Exxon’s owners who have tried their best to allow you to put gas in your tank? Has the government ever found and produced one gallon of gas you could buy from them? What happens to Exxon’s business associates and employees? Are they evil too. Should they lose their jobs? Well they just did and now you have to support them. The government won’t support them, you will because your taxes just went up to do so.
But it isn’t just Exxon. They hate all oil companies, all drug companies, all insurance companies, they hat WalMart for heavens sake the one company that tries to keep prices low and caters to poor people. They hate all the rich people claiming they do not do their fair share even though they pay more in taxes today as a total than they ever have in the past. Their share of the tax burden has never been higher – no not ever – not even when the Marxists had 90%, that’s a 90% tax rate when JFK become president or the 70% tax rate of Jimmy Carter when the country was on its financial knees. Today 1.35 Million (the richest 1% of American households) pay $408.4 Billion in taxes or $300,892 each in taxes while the lowest 50% of American wage earners pay $399 each in taxes. The poorest 50% pay 667 times less in taxes than the richest 1% in dollar value each and 13.35 times less in total dollars too. Sound like the rich are getting fleeced to me. Do you think that they know this? I sure hope they don’t know they are paying wyay too much of their fair share.
They also claim the poor people pay too much in taxes and need a tax break. Do you know how much tax the lowers 50% if wage earning households paid in taxes for a year – not a quarter – a year? This is 67 million households mind you. This entire group paid $30.5 billion dollars in taxes for a whole year. Exxon paid more in taxes in 1 quarter than these 67 million households did in a year. But Exxon didn’t pay enough even though they paid 4 times as much in taxes as the poorest 50% of Americans did – but these poor people paid too much. What kind of logic is this? I will tell you. It is the logic of Marxist thieves. These thieves want to steal all the profits of all the oil companies and they want to take all the money of all the rich people claiming they do not do their fair share.
Well, they do way more than their fair share and way more than their fair share when it comes to more than taxes. But Marxists do no care about that. They just want to steal from who ever has by saying they do not do their fair share and are evil and they are going to give a small portion of the confiscated booty to those that don’t have any – they are real robin hoods these thieves. This is Marxist insanity at its core evilness – an ideology that is diametrically opposed to the everything that made this country and its people great. They are the quintessential anti Americans. They hate all that is good and great and raise to high levels theft, deceit and lies.
The freedom, jobs, education, vacations, health care, wages, opportunity and benefits that private industry, business and rich people have always offered to any American who wanted to honestly trade their hard labor for them, are now somehow evil and corrupt. Those that allowed the rest of us to be able to supply the American dream to ourselves and our family are no evil and must be destroyed. 225 years of the greatest country on earth was not somehow enough for them. The slavery, and swill and equal misery of social security, public welfare, public housing, food stamps and medicare a Marxist government can only offer is somehow a bright future that you have been waiting for and deprived of? You have to be kidding me right? You cannot be that stupid no matter how deserving they tell you you are. Do not be deceived by snake oil salesmen and fake gods. Rely on yourself. You deserve better than slop but only you can provide it. All they have is slop for their slaves. Sadly, half of America seems perfectly contented on living off of someones’ slop swilled their ways by slave masters – slop that even pigs shouldn’t be forced to eat.
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Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
Just refilling Llama’s vocabulary bin. That should hold him for a couple of days anyways.
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Chas – I just got back online about 2 hours ago and sent her an email. So far I have not received a reply, but this being Sunday and a 3 hour difference between coasts, She may still have church stuff going on.
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Good point at 158, Llama. Hope you’re having a great weekend.
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I was thinking this morning, if Worldmag would do like most folks do in polite company (i.e: never discuss politics, religion, or sex), this would be a fantastic place.
My best buddy in the world is a straight, married, fairly conservative Christian, Republican.
I am a gay, single, liberal as all get out, agnostic.
We rarely discuss the Big 3 (politics, religion, or sex). We get along great, and have for nearly 20 years. We go to lunch every day, have season baseball tickets together, go on vacation together, and hang out watching football every weekend, yet we never argue about the Big 3. We both know what the other one thinks and leave it at that.
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Good point at 159, Anlir. Hope you’re having a great weekend.
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1. Leftist
2. Liberal
3. Communist
4. Marxist
Those 4 words sum up the CCR’s vocabulary. They think it passes for intelligent, thoughtful conversation. If you took away those 4 words, they would be dumbfounded and speechless. One would think they were getting a royalty every time one of those 4 words are spoken. Apparently if they use all 4 of them in one comment, they get an extra jewel in their crown from Jesus.
Blah, blah, blah…liberal…blah, blah, blah…Communist…blah, blah, blah…leftist…blah, blah, blah…Marxist.
Oh look – another shiny jewel for my crown!
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Iraq War Veteran PAUL RIECKHOFF: I think honestly that backdrop, whether it was Walter Reed medical center or Walter Reed middle school — that’s about as close as Sen. McCain got to veterans issues last night. He didn’t mention the word veteran once during his entire speech, didn’t talk about post-traumatic stress disorder, didn’t talk about veterans funding. I think he really forgot where he came from last night.
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Oh, Random! What Mumsee said. What SteveG said.
You have no idea what the words “white chocolate” do to me! In my family, it is LAW that chocolate — the real thing, I might add! — must be consumed in some form on a daily basis (for its medicinal properties, of course). I mean, when Mama had Alzheimer’s, believe me — that was the LAST thing to go! She may not have recognized me anymore, but if I pulled a chocolate bar out, she snatched that puppy up real fast!
Calling white chocolate chocolate is like calling near beer Beck’s or Heinekin. It’s like calling Log Cabin real Vermont, Maine or even Canadian maple syrup. It’s like calling those little dixie cups of “ice cream” we had as kids Haagen Dasz. It’s offensive!
There really ought to be a statute proscribing anyone from using the word “chocolate” to describe that stuff. And it ought to be a criminal statute with real jail time as a penalty. Such shivers up my spine!
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Llama,
Apparently leftist when Anlir sees certain words liberal it confuses his brain, communist making it incapable of seeing and comprehending other words. Like right now communist, I can tell you that I liberal appreciated your facts and figures communist, and he won’t Marxist know it. Kinda like “Ralph” talk.
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LOL!
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You know, Random, you kinda sorta got what you deserved: it’s you liberals who are always changing the meanings of words, so you deserved to be fooled by chocolate not really being chocolate!
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161 Outkast
There was a point to 158?
165
Iraqi veterans have never been impressed with McCain. McCain’s vision and contact with the military is frozen in time approx. 1975.
166
There’s a store in my town that sells nothing but chocolate and yes white chocolate is there. Pure Swiss and Belgian white chocolate.
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Yes, HRW, Llama pointed out the facts that show corporate profits are not nearly as obscene as people like you claim. Just because it wasn’t a point you agree with does not mean there was no point, geez.
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On the evening news tonight they spent a good chunk of time dispelling some of the Palin myths. Namely the “misrepresentations” of her record of so-called “reform.” Touched on the debt she left the town. The earmarks she sought for her bridge, and played it against three different quotes of her lying about it. In the end she sounded ear-mark happy and her words hollow.
GOOD STUFF!
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Lumpy: Too bad Palin’s not fading away and disappearing back to Alaksa, eh? Whoo-hoo!
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Anlir, if “CCR” stands for “Conservative Christian Republican,” then once again you’re doing to same thing you and many others complain about: committing hasty generalizations.
Random, how am I suppose to prove you wrong?
You’re using the method that many evolutionists do-the “prove we’re wrong” tactic, instead of “this is why we’re right.”
One illustration was this:
“Did you know that watermelons are blue on the inside before you cut the skin? Prove that I’m wrong.”
With untraceable (or almost untraceable) performance-enhancing drugs, it’s impossible to prove you wrong.
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OUCH!! Mr. “I can’t talk without a prepared text, if I do I’m constantly putting my foot in my mouth” is at it again.
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/07/obama-verbal-slip-fuels-his-critics/
“Let’s not play games,” he said. “What I was suggesting — you’re absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith. And you’re absolutely right that that has not come.”
Mr. Stephanopoulos interrupted with, “Christian faith.”
“My Christian faith,” Mr. Obama said quickly. “Well, what I’m saying is that he hasn’t suggested that I’m a Muslim. And I think that his campaign’s upper echelons have not, either. What I think is fair to say is that, coming out of the Republican camp, there have been efforts to suggest that perhaps I’m not who I say I am when it comes to my faith — something which I find deeply offensive, and that has been going on for a pretty long time.”
Asked to comment on the accidental misstatement illustrating the difficulty of the issue, Obama spokesman Bill Burton offered this comment: “I’m not surprised that the only outlet doing this story is The Washington Times.”
You can view the full context of Mr. Obama’s comments on ABC on the link at the Times story.
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WOOHOO!!!
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-07-poll_N.htm
“McCain leads Democrat Barack Obama by 50%-46% among registered voters, the Republican’s biggest advantage since January and a turnaround from the USA TODAY poll taken just before the convention opened in St. Paul. Then, he lagged by 7 percentage points.
The convention bounce has helped not only McCain but also attitudes toward Republican congressional candidates and the GOP in general.”
HEHEHE!!!
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WOOHOO!! AGAIN.
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1548
The McCain/Palin ticket wins 49.7% support, compared to 45.9% backing for the Obama/Biden ticket, this latest online survey shows. Another 4.4% either favored someone else or were unsure.
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And one more time! WOOHOO!!
http://www.gallup.com/poll/110050/Gallup-Daily-McCain-Moves-Ahead-48-45.aspx
“The latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking update shows John McCain moving ahead of Barack Obama, 48% to 45%, when registered voters are asked for whom they would vote if the presidential election were held today.”
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WOW! This is big.
“MSNBC tried a bold experiment this year by putting two politically incendiary hosts, Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews, in the anchor chair to lead the cable news channel’s coverage of the election.
That experiment appears to be over.
After months of accusations of political bias and simmering animosity between MSNBC and its parent network NBC, the channel decided over the weekend that the NBC News correspondent and MSNBC host David Gregory would anchor news coverage of the coming debates and election night. Mr. Olbermann and Mr. Matthews will remain as analysts during the coverage.
The change — which comes in the home stretch of the long election cycle — is a direct result of tensions associated with the channel’s perceived shift to the political left.
“The most disappointing shift is to see the partisan attitude move from prime time into what’s supposed to be straight news programming,” said Davidson Goldin, formerly the editorial director of MSNBC and a co-founder of the reputation management firm DolceGoldin.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/08/business/media/08msnbc.html?_r=2&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin
It’s about time.
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“Nothing’s been proven” is the mantra of the Republican Party. No wonder the American people consider them the Party of corruption.
As for “whoohooing” over polls, it’s a bit premature to celebrate. There are still 2 months to go in the election, the debates haven’t happened yet, and most American haven’t started paying serious attention.
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I am breaking my own rules now, rather like an Olympic athlete. (Sorry, Rio.)
I’ve been participating on worldmagblog for several years now. Over that time, I have been severely criticized for various sins, including being an atheist (though I’m actually a radical high agnostic); having a homosexual daughter who claims to be one of a pair of mommies of Random Granddaughter (though she’s probably bi-sexual and RG has two daddies as well); being a “liberal,” (a word that is almost all connotation with almost no denotative value); being unable to sustain a coherent argument or thought; and so on.
However, the most severe criticism arose from cluttering up the wmb web site with long, repetitive messages.
My crown as resident pest has been lost to llama. I present to you messages 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, and 158, totaling approximately 10,000 characters.
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What? White chocolate is not chocolate? I am going to have to stop reading this blog, as now my life is as confused as melted Neopolitan ice cream (which looks chocolate).
#164 Anlir:
You haven’t really been reading us all these months, have you. We do not all use the words you mentioned all the time, only when talking about politicians who are “Leftist, Liberal, Communist or Marxist”.
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Turning to white chocolate, I’ll start with that dubious source Wikipedia, which says:
White chocolate is made of cocoa butter, milk, and sugar. Regulations also govern what may be marketed as “white chocolate”: In the United States, since 2004, white chocolate must be at least 20% cocoa butter (by weight), at least 14% total milk solids, at least 3.5% milk fat, and less than 55% sugar or other sweeteners.
Turning to the package of Ghirardelli chips I picked up from Ghirardelli my wife and I noticed too late that they label them as “white chips,” not as “white chocolate chips.” This is a company that employs lawyers and uses their services. You can check their web site where they carefully say,
Ghirardelli Classic White Chips start with ingredients like whole milk powder and vanilla. These ingredients are blended together to create Ghirardelli’s rich, creamy signature taste in these velvety smooth white baking chips.
Checking their web site more thoroughly, I find:
The creamy flavor and silky smoothness of Ghirardelli White Chocolate Baking Bar starts with a careful selection of pure ingredients like real cocoa butter and vanilla. It will bring out the finest in your white chocolate confections. [Bolding mine.]
So our fatal error was purchasing “white chips” but not purchasing “white chocolate baking bars.” I hope all of your learn from the Randoms’ careless shopping error.
However, we are abandoning those double-talking Ghirardelli knaves for Sunspire, which states of its white chocolate chips:
Enjoy the creamy, sweet taste of cocoa butter and cane juice flavored with a hint of vanilla. These are the only white chocolate chips on the market that are free of trans fats. They provide a delicious contrast to traditional semi-sweet chocolate chips and make a perfect white candy coating.
Ingredients
Evaporated cane juice, cocoa butter, whole milk powder, nonfat milk powder, soy lecithin (a non-GMO emulsifier), pure natural vanilla. Made in a facility that uses peanuts, sesame, soy and tree nuts. Not guaranteed gluten-free.
As with diamonds, chocolate is often produced by exploited workers. Worried that I was contributing to indentured child labor on the Ivory Coast or wherever, I found that Sunspire claims:
Sunspire Organic Semi-Sweet Chocolate Chips are made with premium organic chocolate that is grown, harvested and produced using fair labor practices and no chemical fertilizers or pesticides.
Furthermore, Sunspire is owned by Hain Foods. I own stock in Hain Foods. So when I buy these nutritious and virtuous white chocolate chips will not only be pleasing my wife, sticking a finger in Ghirardelli’s eye, but getting a penny or two back.
What kind of white chocolate chips does Sarah Palin use? Can she even take time from her busy schedule as Governor of Alaska (a very white state), hockey mom, and Vice-Presidential candidate to make chocolate chip cookies?
For that matter, what kinds of chocolate chips does Michelle Obama use? Are the Obama children allowed to eat Oreos?
I should be close to llama by now in wasting pixels and using up bandwidth that could be better used in flaming each other about the Presidential candidates.
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Random: I hope you know we love you and appreciate your presence on this blog. BTW, it’s not a sin to have a sinful child (all parents do, including Sarah Palin), nor is it a sin for being unable to sustain a coherent argument or thought (guilty myself, on occasion).
Honestly, we all — including Joel Mark — do thank you for appearing on WoW and sharing your perspective.
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Ah, Random. There is hope, then, that white chocolate at least has cocoa in it. (Is cocoa butter like peanut butter- made from the oil?)
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Ah, but is it made from domestic oil or foreign oil, Peter?
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I’ve said that the Garden of Eden story is a brilliant myth. Any sensible person says to himself or herself:
I am seriously flawed. I make terrible mistakes. I have impulses to do bad things and sometimes act on those impulses. I
harm other people. I am selfish.
And so on. Of course, not all people are sensible, and no one is sensible all the time. But whether one believes the myth or
not, we sensible people realize we are fallen, and we are damn proud of realising that and damn proud of how humble we are
to realize that.
And the story of Eden is a myth. We are alone in a cold, indifferent universe that does not care about us. There are
scientific laws, such as the speed of light and the law of gravity, which perhaps can reasonably be described as “absolute
laws.” There are no “absolute moral laws,” written in a book called the Bible, which was written by human beings over many
generations.
We’re all making it up as we go along.
Outkast, I appreciate that your message to me is sincere and well meant. I just don’t particularly agree with some of it.
I do believe in evil. When I was a child, my aunt (about ten years older than I) was murdered.
When one of my wife’s best friends was a child in Sri Lanka, she saw people burned alive in mob violence.
These are examples of evil. I can’t “prove” these actions were evil.That’s my mileage.
I do believe in consequences. If people have unprotected sex (and no system of “protection” is infallible), they may create
a baby or one may spread a deadly disease to the other.
Sarah Palin’s daughter had unprotected sex, or her protection failed. She seems to be handling the consequences of her irresponsible actions in a reasonably responsible manner, though only time will tell how responsible she is being.
I don’t particularly believe in “sin,” if one defines sin as a violation of a rule created by a God who probably does not exist.
My daughter, like everyone is an imperfect person. To me, it doesn’t make much sense to define her as a “sinner” because she
loves another woman or loves that woman’s child as her own.
I am not “responsible” for my daughter’s “sin” because she is not a “sinner.”
Victoria, to take one example, has said she would not tolerate a homosexual child in her home. My mileage differs from hers.
A former student of mine became a murderer. If my daughter murdered someone, I would have trouble tolerating her in my home.
At the moment, my daughter has a key to my house, and she is welcome to walk into my house and make herself at home at any
time she feels like it, whether my wife and I are here or not. That’s my mileage.
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The story about the “white chocolate” was just a funny little true story. That was my only reason for writing and posting it.
But after seeing several people’s reactions to it, I now realize that it is a parable that will go into the Book of Radical Agnosticism as soon as I finish digging it up where it is buried near where Joseph Smith dug up the Book of Latter Day Saints, as soon as I finish writing it and burying it just as Joseph did his book.
Several people earnestly told me that there is no cocoa in white chocolate. They didn’t feel any need to even check out the facts; they knew for certain that there’s no cocoa there.
This assertion about white chocolate is similar to the way Christians are very disdainful of every religion’s “Creation Myth,” except their own, which is literally true. Uh-huh.
This assertion about white chocolate is similar to the way people constantly make dubious assertions on this web site with absolute assurance about politics, about science, about history, about public figures, about “sin,” and so on.
I’m not sure there’s any there there. This week I will pick up some white chocolate with cocoa in it for my wife. That’s why I will celebrate 43 years of marriage in November, if my wife doesn’t kill me first. She said she hasn’t killed me yet because she isn’t strong enough to dig a deep enough hole to bury me in our five acres of woods.
She decided to have the plumber redo our water line from the house to the garden. She told the plumber, “We will dig the
trench for the new plumbing.” She did this to save money. Plumbers are too expensive to hire them to dig trenches.
“Uh-oh,” I said as she handed me the shovel to dig the trench. I thought every minute might be my last as I shoveled dirt.
After a week of observation, she said, “The new pipes don’t seem to be leaking.” She handed me the shovel to fill in the trench.
“Where’s the pellet rifle I use to shoot bunnies?” I wondered. I thought about posting a message on wmb: If you don’t
read any comments by me for a week, call the sheriff and instruct him to search for a guy named Random Name on an island off the West Coast of the United States. Look for a trench with loose dirt on top. Have the state patrol send one of their bomb
sniffing dogs to sniff for bombs because this joke really bombed.
I do believe I’ve written the first and (sure to be only) shaggy dog story of my life.
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Train……As it is early on a Monday for me, I have just read your complete responce to the aforementioned comments made by LLama concerning the “black hole” issue.I was away from anything related to a computer yesterday, so obviously I would not have seen Saturday night’s comments. You are right, and I am sorry to see you retire under such a demented scenario. LLama should be censored for his comments posted in #153. I am appalled at what comes out of some people’s minds at various times, and I certainly would not want to vent myself in any issue with regards to race. LLama’s comments were unfounded and directly unreasonable. I also don’t think you have any right to “lump” all christendom based on one person’s racial epithet.
Yes, you and I hardly agree on any spiritual issue, but I do applaud your candor.
Try to find forgiveness in your heart for LLama, for it would be a basis for your finding forgiveness for your sins against Almighty God.
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llama post 151,
let me see the creation of the quasi-independent Freddia Mac and Frannie Mae occurred after the Democrats gained a majority in congress?
The sub-prime loan issue started after the Democrats gained a majority in congress?
You are right, the mess started to explode after the Democrats gained a majority in congress and President Bush has asked them to support his administrations proposal for a rescue, which the congress obligingly did.
So I guess you are criticizing the congress for agreeing with Bush on the path forward.
The U.S. public now has the potential for an exposure of perhaps as high as $5 trillion or so. Will we face the total amount? No one knows for sure, so anyone who tells you that we are or we are not is basing this on belief not the facts. The facts are that it could be up to perhaps $5 trillion (the total amount of outstanding mortgage paper in both Freddie Mac and Fannie Maes inventory).
And of course, if we don’t support it the foreign loans which are propping up the American economy it will become very problematic.
But you are so right llama, it most certainly was the Democrats which with their major political muscle in the early 21st century pushed to create this problem.
I now have a bridge I would like to sell you.
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Night Train,
I have long ago stopped reading Llama, for such reasons as you mention. (Sometimes I skim his posts, but usually when I start a post, I remember quickly why I don’t read him anymore–he used to be funny sometimes.) I have seen no reason from him to think that he is a Christian, that I recall. (Calling oneself a Christian isn’t very strong evidence.) You can, and should, report such things to the moderator. But no, Christians don’t think that kind of stuff is OK.
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Random,
My sister is quite a cook (she has had a recipe published in a cookbook after winning a Taste of Home contest–well, second place anyway), and she has told me that white chocolate is what’s left after cocoa has been removed, or something along that line, that basically it’s “un-chocolate.” Now, it may be that enough people demand cocoa in their white chocolate that a company or two has started adding some, but white chocolate truly is not chocolate.
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Random,
post 143: “On your way home, please pick up some Ghirardelli WHITE CHOCOLATE chips,” my wife instructed. I picked them up as instructed.
Post 183: So our fatal error was purchasing “white chips” but not purchasing “white chocolate baking bars.”
Looks like Random Wife’s instructions were pretty clear, so how is it “our fatal error”?
Strikes me that if “white chocolate” (has cocoa butter, but no cocoa solids) can be called chocolate, then fudge (has cocoa solids, but no cocoa butter) could also be called chocolate.
Sin is not as simple as just “breaking rules”. What rule did Cain break when he killed Abel? The rule, “Thou shalt not kill” wasn’t given until thousands of years later, after the earth had been re-populated after Noah’s flood. The flood was sent because everyone else was wicked and evil, but what rules had God set for them to follow? Were they really innocent because He had set no rules?
I do enjoy your posts, BTW.
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Night Train-
As a Christian, I can assure you Llama does not speak for all of us.
Like the majority who scroll past Llama’s hateful personal attacks, I missed that one last night.
His was a shameful personal attack that has no place on this website.
The moderators encourage this sort of thing by not addressing it, but the rest of us don’t have to go along with it.
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Cheryl, I’m not going to say anything more about white chocolate until Nick Peters comments about white chocolate and clearly explains his position on it.
However, as far as I know, chocolate does not grow in the United States, so Nick probably considers it an illegal immigrant and never lets it touch his lips.
Except I will say to John Denny, thank you, and also, my wife and I both messed up by not reading the package carefully and noticing that it said, “White Chips” and not “White Chocolate Chips.”
Next week Ghiradelli will be offering Disengenuous Chips. All four presidential ticket candidates will be handing them out at their rallies.
Also, my parents were health food fanatics to the extent I think they worshipped health food. As children, my siblings and I were discouraged from eating chocolate and encouraged to eat carob bars instead. As one vice-presidential candidate said to another, “You’re no Jack Kennedy,” as a child I said to our carob bars, “You’re no chocolate bar.” Carob is probably a plot of the you know what agenda.
OK, I know I just said this, but I’m really out of here for a while, so everyone can safely say any darn fool thing they feel like without worrying about provoking me to say something even dumber.
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LLAMA: Your comment about Night Train goes beyond attacking his ideas and accuses him of something that has no basis in fact. It and all references I could find concerning it have been deleted. Consider this a warning.
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